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View Full Version : Interesting 70-series alternative...


theboomboom
06-25-2009, 01:59 PM
http://www.mahindrana.com/index.html

4 cylinder diesel, six-speed auto, 4x4, over 1 ton payload capacity, 1.32 ton hauling, 120" wheelbase, and 4 door option. Sound familiar? Difference is, this one actually looks like it will be sold in the US. Sure, it doesn't have a solid front axle or coveted toyota badge, but the platform seems solid enough and it looks like the company has roots in India. I don't have the scratch to consider one of these, but I believe the market does exist for a small displacement diesel pickup in the US. Whadya guys think?

corsair23
06-25-2009, 02:09 PM
Sort of reminds me of a souped up golf cart :D

Hulk
06-25-2009, 02:20 PM
Cool. I bet they'll sell a ton of them.

Air Randy
06-26-2009, 12:01 PM
When I was in India Mahindra vehicles were the equivalent of a Chevrolet here. Like all Indian vehicles they are very compact and emphasis economy.

A lot depends on how inexpensive the Mahindras are. If Dodge/GM/Ford decide to resurrect their 1/2 ton truck diesel engine programs (planned for 2010 launch but delayed due to economy) and they are not hugely more expensive than the Mahindras, then I don't think the Mahindras will be a huge hit.

LARGEONE
06-26-2009, 01:09 PM
If only they were cool looking as well as clean diesel. I think Toyota is really missing the boat on this. Even VW is taking advantage of the movement.

Do we have enough Clean Diesel refining in the US to move that route?

Red_Chili
06-26-2009, 01:53 PM
Interesting, we whine about not having them and these guys saw a business opportunity. Maybe Toyota will rethink their Tokyo-centric business plans now that they almost went too far down the chasing-Ford road with their SUVs.

Hey, a guy can hope, can't he?
Specifically, Global Vehicles will provide affordable, diesel powered two and four-wheel-drive vehicles offering consumers the best in quality and value as well as an ownership experience second to none in their price class. Since incorporation, Global Vehicles has developed a 300+ dealer network to market the various styles and configurations made available from the manufacturing plants overseas, thereby offering high quality vehicles at a competitive cost. As a result of Global Vehicles’ developed dealership infrastructure and management’s automotive expertise, complimented by the high quality design vehicles of Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd. (“M&M”), Global Vehicles and M&M have entered into an exclusive distributorship agreement for the importation of M&M’s automotive product portfolio to the U.S. market. M&M is India’s largest sport utility vehicle manufacturer, holding approximately 50% of the Indian market position, and it ranks 25th in size among world auto makers. M&M entered the automotive manufacturing arena in 1945, started assembling the world famous “Willy” Jeep for the Indian market in 1954 and eventually built its own SUV a few years later.

They make a funny. M&M. The world famous "Willy" Jeep. Hehehe...

"Thank you come again."

theboomboom
06-26-2009, 02:09 PM
I would expect the American market to be very wary of Indian vehicles. For the most part, our contact with the country takes place over frustrating tech support phone calls. Diesel, in the mainstream, doesn't have an excellent reputation either. The average Sally walkin down the street probably believes they are loud, slow, and are the sole cause for the brown cloud over the city.

The country of India itself is very well educated, there are a lot of smart people over there. In fact, I once saw a statistic that said they have more honors-level students than we have students (Fisch, Carl. Did you know?). Mahindra's agricultural division, their sole presence in our market thus far, is actually competitive with John Deere. If they can perform with the same prowess in the passenger vehicle market, one would expect them to have an extra edge by supplying a product that lacks any competition. The big players in the automotive market offer small pickups, but they have a reputation of being underpowered, and they can't match their foreign diesel counter parts mpg-for-mpg. If these turn out to be good vehicles, you can kiss the Dakota, Colorado, and Ranger goodbye. The Tacoma may be replaced by the Hilux, we may actually see a 70 series on a showroom floor, and the world will be a greater place.

corsair23
06-26-2009, 02:12 PM
Anyone remember way back when there were attemps to bring the Romanian SUVs into the US? I think it has been attempted at least twice, the first time being a scam IIRC. The vehicles were the ARO trucks (Auto Romania) and specifically the ARO 24 I believe. I recall getting literature on the trucks at the time and thinking they weren't bad :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARO

http://www.aro4x4.cz/english/fotogalerie.php

and a couple pics I nabbed off the web:

13455

13456

13457

13458

13459

Hulk
06-30-2009, 07:17 PM
Looks like it is for real.

Big article in the Sunday NY Times on Mahindra (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/automobiles/28MAHIND.html).

I think the pickup is very cool looking. :D

nakman
06-30-2009, 09:41 PM
Jeff that was the Crosslander, right? I totally remember wanting one of those, like 6-7 years ago..

corsair23
07-01-2009, 01:39 AM
Jeff that was the Crosslander, right? I totally remember wanting one of those, like 6-7 years ago..

Yep...I think the Crosslander name was used on the second go around...Not a lot on the net but there was some interesting posts I saw referencing the scam and people losing $$ :(

Squishy!
07-01-2009, 07:55 AM
If only they were cool looking as well as clean diesel. I think Toyota is really missing the boat on this. Even VW is taking advantage of the movement.

Do we have enough Clean Diesel refining in the US to move that route?


I agree, but it would compete directly with Toyota's Hybrid lines. They've really thrown all their chips into those things w/o really coming up with a variety of alternative fuels. And they really don't have any inexpensive cars anymore. You can get a $40K Prius now....:eek:

DaveInDenver
07-01-2009, 08:02 AM
Anyone remember way back when there were attemps to bring the Romanian SUVs into the US? I think it has been attempted at least twice, the first time being a scam IIRC.
That whole thing was a mess. It wasn't for a lack of a market that it went south and it had potential to work had the players had been serious about it. Whether or not the manufacturer would have kept up is unlikely, but the US distribution people I don't think ever really had a plan to build infrastructure or a dealer network.

I'd personally consider a Mahindrana as replacement for my truck, particularly if Toyota's offering is still a bloated, over complex Tacoma. Which is IMVHO still a better choice than the competition only because I think they are still better built. But if the Taco was made by someone else, I'd have a hard time considering it as a straight up replacement for my truck, which is a pretty basic truck without too much unneeded stuff. The downside to the Mahindrana is that it's automatic tranny only, which I find odd.

theboomboom
07-01-2009, 08:52 AM
The downside to the Mahindrana is that it's automatic tranny only, which I find odd.

It's just a sign of the times, you can't even get a manual tranny in a new F-150. Speculation a while back seemed to indicate it may have paddle shifters on the steering wheel, I guess we'll see whenever it gets to market.

Jacket
07-01-2009, 09:42 AM
I'd personally consider a Mahindrana as replacement for my truck, particularly if Toyota's offering is still a bloated, over complex Tacoma.

Besides the actuated 4wd system, what's overly complex? The Tacoma is pretty spartan as compared with other trucks of the same vintage.

DaveInDenver
07-01-2009, 09:50 AM
Besides the actuated 4wd system, what's overly complex? The Tacoma is pretty spartan as compared with other trucks of the same vintage.
My 1991 Hilux 22R-E has 1 microprocessor, manual everything else and a large chunk of the ECU and sensors I know how to work around such that as long as the ECU and one or two sensors are working I will make it home. The 2009 Tacoma has I think I read 19 microprocessors. Now in fairness some of them are not critical, like the system that controls the dome light dimming could probably fail and just be a nuisance. Our 4Runner has all these interdependent systems, if it detects wheel slip, checks the transfer condition, then affects the tranny, which cuts engine power, etc., etc. My tolerance is higher than some luddites, but I still don't expect to keep this 4Runner until the day rust takes it out. I'm sure it's gonna be taken off the road one day because of some too expensive to fix control system and not just worn out mechanically or rusty. I prefer a stick on the transfer and when I tell it to be in 4WD and engage the locker, it does not try to defeat my request.

Jacket
07-01-2009, 09:57 AM
Ok, but that's more of a reality for all current production vehicles, not just the Tacoma and 4Runner (and in fact likely worse for other trucks).

It will be interesting to see how the VSC/TRAC systems age with these newer vehicles. I assume (hope) that if they just up and fail one day, it'll just be like the feature never existed and the truck will work on its mechanical parts.

DaveInDenver
07-01-2009, 10:14 AM
Ok, but that's more of a reality for all current production vehicles, not just the Tacoma and 4Runner (and in fact likely worse for other trucks).
I figured that out when we bought this 4Runner. I was expecting something else I guess. The next newest vehicle we owned before that was a 1996 Civic and that was much more on par with my 1991 than this 4Runner is terms of simplicity. For example if did have power windows and locks, but they worked on passive components (the same as a FJ62) and not on a computer. It only had the one ECU box, too, now that I think about it. What sort of finally put the nail in the coffin for me ever buying another newer car is when the stupid anti-skid system kicked in on our 4Runner when I was trying to cross Hampden on Clarkson in the snow. It cut power, kept pulsing the brakes and the whole time I was going painfully slow trying to get out of the way of traffic. The heck with that. I was ready to sell that thing right there and gave serious consideration to parking it at Swedish hospital and just walking home I was so mad at it.

Squishy!
07-01-2009, 12:35 PM
There are ways to override the VSC and TRAC on those newer cars by tricking the ECU into thinking the center diff lock is engaged, and it doesn't seem to affect anything else in the system either.

Hulk
07-01-2009, 12:48 PM
I would expect the American market to be very wary of Indian vehicles. For the most part, our contact with the country takes place over frustrating tech support phone calls.

True, but never underestimate the power of a great deal.

1960s: Lower-priced German VWs took the U.S. by surprise. Lingering anti-German feelings from WWII fail to prevent people from buying cheap, cute little VWs that are easy to work on and miserly on fuel. They become a symbol of the youth movement.

1970s: Lower-priced Japanese vehicles start showing up everywhere. Lingering anti-Japan feelings from WWII fail to prevent people from buying cheap, fuel efficient Japanese cars, especially when the fuel crisis hits. And if you want a sports car for less money, you could buy a sweet Datsun 240Z.

1990s: Lower-priced cars from Korea enter the market. Despite low quality initially, people snap up cars from Hyundai and Kia because they are inexpensive. Like the Japanese before them, the quality has improved to the point where it's better than American cars.

There's a serious opportunity for India to sell inexpensive cars in the U.S. right now. Most cars start at around $15k for a spartan model. Check out the Nano from India (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/automobiles/autoreviews/28NANO.html) -- it sells for $2200 in India including taxes and fees, and it doesn't suck (although it's slow). They plan to bring a better version of it to the U.S. in 2011. Even if the price triples to $6600, it will be almost 2/3 cheaper than everything else out there. They would sell the heck out of them.

MDH33
08-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Just found this thread, almost reposted. I saw in Overland Journal a blurb about these trucks coming in 2010. They really do remind me of the current 70 series Toyota trucks. I kind of like it. From the articles I read online, the price sounds like it's going to be in the 20-30K range. Turbo diesel and hybrid options.

http://www.toyota.com.au/TWR/content/static/42817.jpg

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/images/2007/11/08/mahindra.jpg

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/22499951+w750+st0/163_0907_08z+mahindra_PIK_up_4x4+side_view.jpg

http://www.dfwmahindra.com/html/blacktheme/images/newtruck.jpg