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View Full Version : FJ40 1F Oil Filter Hose


RicardoJM
08-19-2009, 08:54 PM
Must be :zilla: take a dump day; Martin's drive shaft and I have an oil filter line leaking very heavily. HutHut noticed a burning smell on the way home from school today and smoking in the engine compartment. We took a look and one of the lines between the oil filter housing and the block was soaked and there is oil pooled up on the engine block ridge. It looks like an easy job to replace the hoses. I'm going to call Jerry at Groove in the morning to see if they are still available and if they are in stock. Recognizing there are 2 "ifs" in that last sentence, if you have a line on where I can get a hose quickly - I'd like to get the truck back on the road.

RicardoJM
08-20-2009, 09:58 AM
I ordered replacement lines from Man-a-fre this morning. Looks like HutHut will be on his bicycle for a few days.

Uncle Ben
08-20-2009, 10:23 AM
Most implement shops can make you some up quickly and cheap! My new favorite place is McCoy Sales in Louisville, they are a Parker Store.

wesintl
08-20-2009, 11:03 AM
central states hose, denver

There is also another place I think in sunnyside right off 25 and 70 that makes all kinds of custom hoses from hot rods to industrial equipment.

Air Randy
08-20-2009, 01:26 PM
It's a 1F, add 2 extra quarts of oil, then clean the hose up good and wrap it with duct tape and drive it until the new part shows up. :hill: After all, you do have a spare engine sitting in your garage.

Rzeppa
08-20-2009, 06:21 PM
It's a 1F, add 2 extra quarts of oil, then clean the hose up good and wrap it with duct tape and drive it until the new part shows up. :hill: After all, you do have a spare engine sitting in your garage.

LOL! So true! Don't need no stinkin' oil filter for a few miles!

RicardoJM
08-20-2009, 07:18 PM
So, the new hoses will be here next week. I was giving thought to putting plugs in the block and bypassing the filter for a few days. Late last night I was reading the Mark W. tech column from one of last summer's TT where he discussed low oil and mentioned that some guys carry plugs in their trail kits just in case an old 1F blows a hose and needs to limp home.

It may be a silly question, but I'm just learning and am stupid/brilliant enough to put the tape on. I know muffler bearings come from the Easter Bunny but have yet to gain much real world "trail fix" experience and could easily be convinced that putting a sticker in my window will increase my horsepower:hill:.

Seriously, presuming I could get the old hose clean of oil (it is the fabric wrapping and oil soaked) would duct tape hold up to the oil pressure? I'd hate to put tape on there and ruin a good F engine because I should have known better or asked:thumb:.

Hulk
08-20-2009, 07:56 PM
Is there a way to upgrade the system and eliminate the hoses?

Sorry, Wes.

wesintl
08-20-2009, 09:38 PM
you would have to swap the engine to eliminate the hoses.

At least this cruiser has a yellow jack



:lmao:

Rzeppa
08-20-2009, 10:03 PM
Is there a way to upgrade the system and eliminate the hoses?

Sorry, Wes.

LOL! Yeah, it's an F engine thing. "Upgrading" would involve a newer block (either 1975 F or 1975-up 2F) with different oil galleys. The good news is, all the oil that goes through the hoses has nothing to do with lubricating the engine.

In an F engine, the oil is split just downstream from the pump. Half goes to the crank (and from there to the rods), then the cam, then the valve rockers. The other half goes through through the oil filter, and then is dumped back into the pan. If the latter circuit is plugged off until new hoses are procured, then nothing bad happens to the engine right off the bat.

Uncle Ben
08-20-2009, 10:23 PM
LOL! Yeah, it's an F engine thing. "Upgrading" would involve a newer block (either 1975 F or 1975-up 2F) with different oil galleys. The good news is, all the oil that goes through the hoses has nothing to do with lubricating the engine.

In an F engine, the oil is split just downstream from the pump. Half goes to the crank (and from there to the rods), then the cam, then the valve rockers. The other half goes through through the oil filter, and then is dumped back into the pan. If the latter circuit is plugged off until new hoses are procured, then nothing bad happens to the engine right off the bat.



Oh contraire sir! The F oiling system is mechanical bypass. If you plugged the hoses the oiling system would get full pressure directly from the positive displacement oil pump! The regulator on the side of the engine bleeds off the excessive pressure through the oil filter circuit.

RicardoJM
08-21-2009, 07:15 AM
Oh contraire sir! The F oiling system is mechanical bypass. If you plugged the hoses the oiling system would get full pressure directly from the positive displacement oil pump! The regulator on the side of the engine bleeds off the excessive pressure through the oil filter circuit.

Does the open/closed state of the mechanical bypass have a significant impact on the oil pressure? As I understand it the mechanical bypass is part of a closed system. Stated another way, when the mechanical bypass is opened there is now an alternate route (through the filter) for the oil to flow but the pressure in the system is constant.

For all those following, keep in mind we are talking about bypassing the oil filter - which is not a good thing to do and should only be considered when all other reasonable options have been exhausted.

I do have the "upgraded oil system" in my garage. It is an F.5 engine. I'm just real slow on my project to mate it up to the 4speed tranny:o.

Oh, and another thing - what about the duct tape question???

Air Randy
08-21-2009, 09:10 AM
There are three things that could make the tape come loose: The oil pressure itself, not being oil resistant and the engine heat.

If the hose is just leaking versus a full blown gusher, it's doubtful the oil PSI is high enough currently at the leak to blow out the patch if properly applied.

I had a radiator hose blow one time in the middle of nowhere. I took the tin foil from the inner liner of a Hershey bar and wrapped it around the 2" tear in the hose. I then wrapped that as tightly as I could with about 20 wraps of good quality duct tape. I got water out of a nearby cow pond and successfully drove 150 miles back to Denver.

So if you clean the hose really good, maybe put a wrap of tin foil around it, then bind it tightly with either good quality duct tape (aluminzed muffler tape would be ven better) then you will probably stop or slow down the leak enough for it to be tolerable until the new hoses show up. This is a good time to practice your emergency jury rigging skills. Give it a try and rive around the block a fews time to see how it works.

corsair23
08-21-2009, 11:20 AM
They also sell that "miracle" tape or whatever it is called...Didn't someone on here have to use some of that after the Argentine Pass clean up day?

wesintl
08-21-2009, 11:22 AM
I think i have a spare if you need it for a bit ricardo...

Uncle Ben
08-21-2009, 12:34 PM
The mechanical bypass works just like a fuel pressure regulator. The biggest difference is an electric fuel pump is not a positive displacement type pump unless it is a plunger type. At an idle or low flow situation very little "bypass" through the return line (oil filter circuit) occurs. As more volume is created (RPMs...) the excess pressure forces the spring to collapse thus opening the valve allowing the high pressure side to maintain safe levels. If the return line is plugged the pressure will continue to increase and depending on how worn the pump and/or the bearing journals are, something will have to "give" as liquid is not compressible. The weakest point will fail and in the F engine that will probably be (hopefully) the copper tube supplying oil to the rocker shaft. If that hold's the next weakest point will probably be the cam gear oiling system followed by the end plate of the oil pump itself if everything else holds. The journals do have small freeze plugs that should pop out before the pump blows but since we hate leaks we often tap those holes and screw in plugs. Most likely, unless everything is new, the journals are worn enough that catastrophic pressure is not possible but prolonged high pressure will wash the babbitt right off the clamshells! Long story short....don't plug the oil lines! If you have to do a field fix bypass the oil filter. Most other engines have a oil pump driveshaft that has hardened ends and a soft shank that drives the oil pump from the distributer. If the pressure relief fails the shaft will twist shortening the link and disconnecting the oil pump.

RicardoJM
08-21-2009, 01:10 PM
Randy,

I think you meant to address to Ricardo;). I track with all that and bottom line, its not a good idea to plug the outlet from the block.

Randy, thanks for the clarification on the duct tape approach. I'll probably give this a go, with a careful test run - then park the truck till the new hoses arrive. If it works, I'll have some supplies to put in the trail kit along with the fluids I toss in when going on the trail. If it doesn't work the truck will sit until the new hoses arrive.

Wes, thanks for the offer of a hose, but are not in a "must get it back on the road" situation; HutHut's bike will get him to school, work and friends just fine for a few days.

nuclearlemon
08-21-2009, 01:24 PM
now that i'm thinking, i may have a complete f head with lines. i'll check when i get home.

Rzeppa
08-21-2009, 06:31 PM
Oh contraire sir! The F oiling system is mechanical bypass. If you plugged the hoses the oiling system would get full pressure directly from the positive displacement oil pump! The regulator on the side of the engine bleeds off the excessive pressure through the oil filter circuit.

Oh contraire sir! If the oil filter hose is blocked off...the oiling system gets full pressure directly from the positive displacement oil pump! This is very similar to the superior 2F oiling pathway, the primary difference being that the 2F pathway has all the oil going through the filter prior to entering the main bearing galley instead of half going through the regulator/filter/dump back to the pan and splitting the rest through the entire engine. The regulator on the side of the engine (upstream of the oil filter) would only prevent excessive pressure (highly unlikely) from entering the main bearing galleys in the F engine. It is normally set at around 55 PSI, normally only achieved on very cold mornings IMPE.

In the real world, blocking the path through the filter on an F engine will unlikely cause any bad things to happen in the short term.

nuclearlemon
08-21-2009, 07:52 PM
checked and i don't see the one i had. i may have given it to the guy from wolf creek rod works. sorry.

kvanoort
08-21-2009, 09:03 PM
I have some good used lines that you're welcome to have for FREE. You'll just need to come pick them up.

RicardoJM
08-27-2009, 09:12 PM
The new hoses arrived today. HutHut gave me a hand putting them in tonight. It was a real treat to have a job that went just as expected. About an hour or two from start to finish with a pizza break in the middle. The new hoses were longer and they have elbow fittings so the routing needed to make sure they don't touch the manifold or exhaust.

Thanks to everyone who offered up information and hoses. I did try the field repair on Saturday but the hose was too far gone along its length. I started the repair at the top, just above where you could see the leak started. The repair went down over 2/3 of the hose. Upon starting up, within 20 seconds the drip could be seen on the exposed bottom of the hose. I didn't try to extend the repair further down the hose, but if it were a real field situation - that would have been my next step.