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corsair23
08-27-2009, 01:37 PM
Or, a question for any of you 40 owners that know carbs better than me (which would probably be all of you :hill:)

On my FJ40 I've got a Weber carb (yeah, I know...came with the truck). The 40 runs fine for the most part around town but on hills (anything from just around town to running up 285) it will often bog down/lose power at full throttle...If I back off the throttle things are ok but then I'm not getting the power needed to go up the hill :(. And, the 40 gets terrible gas mileage...I know they don't get great gas mileage but I'm lucky to get 10mpg on an all highway trip. I'm guessing the 40 is running way rich and wasting fuel...

I figured that since my 40 was a CA rig that the carb needs to be rejetted for a higher altitude and have the timing set etc. I admit I don't have a clue how to do this and Jim C. etc. won't touch a Weber used on a FJ40. I have thought about going back to a stock carb but from what I have read, converting from stock to a Weber requires numerous changes to throttle linkage etc. so I can only assume converting back would be just as much work. Plus, I'd have to find a carb and have it rebuilt (actually have 2 carbs I bought for :beer: from Nathaniel) which would be $$.

Anyway, I saw these from Marshall/Trollhole on MUD awhile back --> New AftermarketF & 2F carbs (http://forum.ih8mud.com/trollholes-cruisers/306614-new-f-2f-carbs-non-usa-distributors.html) and got to thinking again about changing out the Weber. I could rejet/rebuild the Weber for less probably but in the end I would still have a Weber which doesn't seem to be very popular in the 40 world...

Obviously I'd have to get with Marshall and send him some pics of my setup to see if his carbs will work or if I'll have to be changing a bunch of stuff. But, anyone have experience or thoughts on these aftermarket carbs? $225 is a lot of :twocents: but I'd spend more than that having a stock carb rebuilt and probably 1/2 that rejetting the Weber...

I'm thinking of trying to tackle this over the winter so I'll be ready in time for summer 2010 :D

wesintl
08-27-2009, 01:43 PM
The only problem is they are non usa. But that should be ok.

I bought one from nardek before I think they got out of it. I think troll hole got the info from them and is sell the carbs from there. It's a brand new aisin carb. Can't go wrong unless you need the smog ports.

I hate to say it but I chose to buy a new one vs send mine out to jim c for roughly the same $

I'm not sure it's going to be jetted for alt though. you may still have to do this.

subzali
08-27-2009, 01:59 PM
Jeff, I think Treeroot has a Weber on his 40. They are actually pretty popular and, barring purists, seem to be acceptable carbs for 40s. But AFAIK there are two types that typically get swapped onto 40 engines. They are:
32/36 and
38/38

My first thought was that maybe your float level is set too low, meaning you don't have enough gas in the bowl for when you get on inclines.

I am not familiar with what kinds of adjustments are needed or available on a Weber carb, but do some research and find out exactly WHICH Weber you have and that might help narrow things down further. Then check your timing (a basic timing light from Autozone is like $20) and check your plugs - if you're running rich they should tell you. My 40 gets about 12 mpg almost always. I have gotten as low as 9 (topped off in Golden and then topped off again in Idaho Springs, after going up I-70 mashed to the floor) and as high as 15 (going to Moab for CM '07 (topped off in Glenwood Springs, Fruita, then Moab), checked against Mapquest).

corsair23
08-27-2009, 02:18 PM
It's a brand new aisin carb. Can't go wrong unless you need the smog ports.

I'm not sure it's going to be jetted for alt though. you may still have to do this.

No smog stuff on my 40 so I should be ok there...

Zornff (Mike) bought one and from what I read Marshall will jet the carbs for your primary elevation...It was obvious on the 1st 40s only run to those that were there that my 40 isn't jetted right...probably at its limit in town so it was not happy at the top of Kingston Peak :rolleyes:

And yes, these are the same carbs that Nardek in AU was selling but it appears they are no longer bringing them in...A guy from AU bought one from Marshalll and had it shipped down under...


JeffBut AFAIK there are two types that can get swapped onto 40 engines. I THINK they are:
32/36 and
38/38

or something like that. You would have to research it but I believe you want the 32/36, as the CFM matches better for the needs of the 2F.

My first thought was that maybe your float level is set too low, meaning you don't have enough gas in the bowl for when you get on inclines.

I need to dig out my notes...I looked into this heavily back 2-3 yrs ago but can't remember now...Pretty sure I have the "36" version. I just keep putting it on the back burner 'cuz the other two Cruisers tend to keep me plenty busy so the 40 gets ignored :( - I'll have to look again into the jet kit for the Weber plus the Weber book and see what that would cost compared to the aftermarket carb and the work involved swapping back...

Just a matter of finding the time to dig into it for real vs. web wheeling it :o

MDH33
08-27-2009, 02:53 PM
Jeff, I've done a few FJ40 carbs (and my first 22R last week!), so if you want a hand, I would be happy to help you get an Aisan rebuilt and set up to work on your 40. I have spare jets and some linkage parts too. I work for :beer: which tends to be cheaper than Jim C's rates. :hill:

corsair23
08-27-2009, 03:05 PM
Jeff, I've done a few FJ40 carbs (and my first 22R last week!), so if you want a hand, I would be happy to help you get an Aisan rebuilt and set up to work on your 40. I have spare jets and some linkage parts too. I work for :beer: which tends to be cheaper than Jim C's rates. :hill:

Excellent...Thanks for the offer Martin :thumb: - We'll see which way I end up going...it will take me until at least December to decide :hill:

MDH33
08-27-2009, 03:13 PM
Excellent...Thanks for the offer Martin :thumb: - We'll see which way I end up going...it will take me until at least December to decide :hill:

No problem. In the meantime, look to see if the connection to the manifold is still stock to accept an Aisan, identify what type of distributor you have, and look to see what's been done on your throttle linkage. That way, we'll know what you need to make the aisan work on your setup. Post up some pics. :thumb:

If you decide to go stock 2 barrel Aisan, get me the carb (or carbs) and that way I'll have until December to build it. :hill:

subzali
08-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Hey Jeff, I bet this guy has some carbs you could buy:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/trollholes-cruisers/306654-trollholes-used-parts.html

lol

Air Randy
08-27-2009, 05:12 PM
See if your weber still has a tag on the top with a number on it. If it does give that number to NAPA. They can tell you what size carb you have and how much a rebuild kit is for it. They are usually surprisingly cheap and weber are pretty basic and easy to rebuild, I'm glad to help you with it.

I would do that first before I started rejetting it. Sometimes you have a bad power valve or plugged passage and it will cause the excessive rich condition, once thats fixed the jets may be acceptable. If not, its easy to change main jets later.

RicardoJM
08-27-2009, 06:29 PM
All good advice. I'll also through into the mix that I have an AISIN and rebuild kit, even picked up the chem-dip and it is on my list to do a rebuild. You are welcome to learn along with me while I do mine. As usual, I've done a bunch of research (guess I'm a closet web mechanic) and with paying attention to details it is not beyond my ability.

Corbet
08-27-2009, 10:24 PM
If you don't care about the Toyota purist part what about a TBI unit off a 4.3 GM V6?

Stirring the pot :bolt::drink::wav:

subzali
08-27-2009, 11:17 PM
meh - too much electrical with not enough gain to make it worthwhile IMO.

Trollhole
08-28-2009, 11:09 AM
Personally if you have something you think you can fix and are willing to spend the time to fix it, then that is what I would do.

I tried that with my Weber carb and bought every jet they made for it and tried every combination I could. It always ran rich. I hated it.

My carbs can come anyway you like it. Since I already inspect them prior to shipping I can install the Hi-Altitude jets if you ask me to. It's not hard to do as they are mounted in the little caps on the bowl. If you get a carb from me it will say Hi-Alt on the plastic cover if I have rejetted it.

My carbs are simple, basic. Nothing fancy on them. They have one port for the distributor. They are not for everyone. Going back to the stock linkage on a vehicle that has all kinds of mods is not going to be a walk in the park. But for those with a stock carb or at least the linkage it's almost a plug and play option.

I agree 225 shipped is not cheap. But considering the other alternatives for those that don't want to rebuild it themselves it's a really good option.

rover67
08-28-2009, 11:17 AM
I can help you rebuild and tune that weber, I've done a few of them and feel comfortable with it. Just let me know. I had a weber on my FJ60 before the v8 and loved it.. but I come from a long line of webers (porsches) so i am partial to them. I think we could get it tuned right in a day. i just need to bring all my jets over.

trollholescarbs seem like a nice bolt on solution though.... assuming it is jetted right when it gets here.

rover67
08-28-2009, 11:26 AM
oh, and it's cheap.

http://www.jtoutfitters.com/weber-carburetor-3236-dgav-dgev-rebuild-repair-p-4671.html

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=1583

sounds like the main needs to back off a little bit, so getting a few sizes smaller than what's in there would be all you need. Or we can throw one of mine in and i'll just get a replacement for the one we use. simple as that.

corsair23
08-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Thanks everyone!

Based on all the feedback I think my plan of action will be to try a rebuild/rejet of the Weber and see how it goes. If that doesn't work, then maybe between the two Aisin carbs I got from Nathaniel I can get a good working stock unit and revert back...I knew I might one day regret selling the extra OEM air filter housing I had for a 2F :)

You guys know that I move slow but hopefully I'll get this tackled over the winter sometime.

Marco, so you have all sorts of jets and I would just need to get a rebuild kit or should I go ahead and pickup some jets appropriate for our elevation? Or, maybe I just need to get the carb off and apart to see what exactly I have to work with :D

wesintl
08-28-2009, 01:36 PM
It always ran rich. I hated it.

Doubt that would ever be a problem out here ;)

rover67
08-28-2009, 02:18 PM
figure out what jets are in it and we'll go from there. I can see if I have ones that fall around what's in it. If i do, no need for you to buy any. It's easy to take apart and check.

Rzeppa
09-03-2009, 12:01 AM
Personally if you have something you think you can fix and are willing to spend the time to fix it, then that is what I would do.

I tried that with my Weber carb and bought every jet they made for it and tried every combination I could. It always ran rich. I hated it.

My carbs can come anyway you like it. Since I already inspect them prior to shipping I can install the Hi-Altitude jets if you ask me to. It's not hard to do as they are mounted in the little caps on the bowl. If you get a carb from me it will say Hi-Alt on the plastic cover if I have rejetted it.

My carbs are simple, basic. Nothing fancy on them. They have one port for the distributor. They are not for everyone. Going back to the stock linkage on a vehicle that has all kinds of mods is not going to be a walk in the park. But for those with a stock carb or at least the linkage it's almost a plug and play option.

I agree 225 shipped is not cheap. But considering the other alternatives for those that don't want to rebuild it themselves it's a really good option.

Well said Marshall. I have worked on many 40s with webers. They all had some issue or other, but they can work acceptably in my first hand experience. None of them worked as well as stock Aisan (not Aisin like hubs and t-cases LOL! ;-). Jim Chenoweth schooled me on that. Heck I probably have that backwards, but they are two different Toyota suppliers.

On Webers, it is fairly well known that the 32/36 is undersized for the F series engines. But the 38/38 will give poorer fuel economy due to the way the primary and secondary both open at the same rate. The early 2 BBL Aisans have a mechanical secondary and the later ones are vacuum operated, but in both cases the secondary only opens when called upon, allowing much better fuel economy. Plus I hate the electric choke on Webers and much prefer the operator-operated choke of the Aisans.

If it were my rig I would either go with a new Aisan or a Jim Chenoweth rebuild. I have one of the former in my 1978 FJ45 and one of the latter in each of my FJ40s.

treerootCO
09-03-2009, 12:13 AM
I just opened this thread...saw it float by a few times...whoops. Here is your answer ;)

bought all my jets from www.carbs.net (http://www.carbs.net/) a little spendy but I guess about average.

5280 elevation
Weber 38/38

* 135 Main------------->73801.135
* 190 or 200 Air------->77201.200 Either will work but depends on altitude if lean or rich.
* 50 Idle Big----------->74409.050
* 50 Idle Small-------->74403.050
* 70 Pump------------->76215.070 Weber came with the 70 pump


A good rule for adjusting the jets is one stop for every 3000 feet in elevation. Use the main jets for major changes and the air for fine tuning.

I have the 38 DGEV on my 78. I went through tons of $5.00 jets to get it right. The most important thing to check is the adapter that comes with most Webers. It is usually two plates and the screws are too long. You will never be able to cure the vacuum leaks on a Weber unless you grind off the last two threads on both sets of screws. I did this and no longer have any vacuum leaks or that, oh so nice, whistling noise under the hood.

Rzeppa
09-03-2009, 11:43 PM
The most important thing to check is the adapter that comes with most Webers. It is usually two plates and the screws are too long. You will never be able to cure the vacuum leaks on a Weber unless you grind off the last two threads on both sets of screws. I did this and no longer have any vacuum leaks or that, oh so nice, whistling noise under the hood.

BTDT, should have mentioned it in my earlier reply

I have always tried to steer folks back to factory for F series. Seriously. We all know Hollys suck a$$ off road unless you do a bunch of mods (WTF is a whistle tube anyway?). IMHE, Webers work fine but you have to dork around with linkage, don't have control over the choke, The air cleaner housing doesn't fit, you have adapters (see above) and all kinds of little doo daas. Factory Aisan works great at what ever angle you are off road, gives GREAT mileage (compared to Hollys and Webers), and everything fits (air cleaner housing, linkage, fuel lines, ect.). And they last a long A$$ed time between rebuilds.

But yeah. What Mike said. Those last couple threads on the adapter screws need to come off on the Weber kits I have dorked around with.

subzali
02-01-2011, 11:00 PM
...So it's winter time, let's get this baby figured out once and for all Jeff! What do you say? Treeroot's got the magic numbers posted (if you have a 38/38), so all that needs to be done is to take it apart and see what you have! Who's in, Friday at corsair23's house? We'll have it done before you come home from work! :D

corsair23
02-02-2011, 12:11 AM
...So it's winter time, let's get this baby figured out once and for all Jeff! What do you say? Treeroot's got the magic numbers posted (if you have a 38/38), so all that needs to be done is to take it apart and see what you have! Who's in, Friday at corsair23's house? We'll have it done before you come home from work! :D

Sweet :hill: - and no, I still haven't addressed the issue :o

Told you I move slow...Heck, a snail moves faster than me :rolleyes:

RicardoJM
02-02-2011, 07:53 AM
...So it's winter time, let's get this baby figured out once and for all Jeff! What do you say? Treeroot's got the magic numbers posted (if you have a 38/38), so all that needs to be done is to take it apart and see what you have! Who's in, Friday at corsair23's house? We'll have it done before you come home from work! :D

I'd be in. :thumb:

subzali
02-03-2011, 11:04 AM
So what do you say Jeff? :D

Mind if we come crash your garage for a few hours? :D

corsair23
02-03-2011, 05:42 PM
So what do you say Jeff? :D

Mind if we come crash your garage for a few hours? :D

Knock yourselves out :cool:

Although you've seen my garage...It might be easier to take the 40 to a location where you'll actually be able to work on it :hill:

If you can hold off till later this Spring, it would be fun to work with you guys on it so I actually learn something :thumb: