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View Full Version : 3VZ-E (3.0 V6) life cycle completed.


leiniesred
10-06-2009, 10:10 PM
The inevitable has finally happened.

Last week, I noticed the engine sounded a little different. Like when they get low on oil. Still had the same (disparaging) oil pressure, but normal for my engine the last few years.
I added oil. Yesterday, driving home after a 36 hour work shift, I heard the dreaded thunk of rod knock. Drove it in to work today and then back home (20 miles?) then out to the storage yard because I don't think the engine will go another 20 miles.

It has ended. No head gaskets, never adjusted the valves, plug wires 150,000 miles ago, platinum plugs 100,000 miles ago, 2 distributor caps, 3 timing belt jobs with water pumps, front main seal, cam seals, hmmm, that's about it. Oh, the oil pan HAS been off, but never put back on. I switched to a T-100 wheel drive pan for solid axle swap clearance about 5 years ago. Always passed smog, original catalytic converter. EGR valve was "broken" for the last 150,000 miles. broke a radiator. Changed the big hoses only. 1 power steering pump, and a few precautionary belt changes.

272,086 miles was the limit for my 3vz-e's con-rod bearings.


My options:

Rebuild my 3vze with new bearings and turned down crank?

Find a used 3vz to swap in and keep on truckin'?

5vz swap?

Domestic V8 swap?

Pull my "good" parts and build a similar mini truck with them?

Sell my good parts and buy something newer like a 2001-2004 Tacoma Extra cab pickup (and leave it IFS for as long as I can!)


Important points: My truck's body is rusting through on the rear fenders and around the windshield/a-pillars. Everything, including the paint, on my truck is worn out. Tranny? Beat. Transfer cases? Probably need a new spud shaft and bearings. Rear 5.29 ARB diff? Seems just fine. Front arb high pinion is fine. Front Axle housing? Might be bent or need trunions? (The point of all this is that my platform is simply worn out.) tires: Still have nubs on the TREAD! DANG IT!

I appreciate club wisdom in helping me choose my course of action.

-LeiniesRed

Uncle Ben
10-06-2009, 10:14 PM
My options:

Rebuild my 3vze with new bearings and turned down crank?

Find a used 3vz to swap in and keep on truckin'?

5vz swap?

Domestic V8 swap?

Pull my "good" parts and build a similar mini truck with them?

Sell my good parts and buy something newer like a 2001-2004 Tacoma Extra cab pickup (and leave it IFS for as long as I can!)


Important points: My truck's body is rusting through on the rear fenders and around the windshield/a-pillars. Everything, including the paint, on my truck is worn out. Tranny? Beat. Transfer cases? Probably need a new spud shaft and bearings. Rear 5.29 ARB diff? Seems just fine. Front arb high pinion is fine. Front Axle housing? Might be bent or need trunions? (The point of all this is that my platform is simply worn out.) tires: Still have nubs on the TREAD! DANG IT!

I appreciate club wisdom in helping me choose my course of action.

-LeiniesRed


It all seriousness you gotta let the 3vz :rip:! Pick up a 5VZ-FE powered truck and move your goodies into it (along with the front axle).

DaveInDenver
10-06-2009, 10:25 PM
Same position, I'd find an OK 3VZ from someone who did the 3.4L swap and keep on trucking with minimal additional money. Done and forgotten in a weekend. I spent the winter of 2006 dealing with my engine all the while cussing the lack of a 4WD truck. Grrrr. I've come full circle to my 16 year old self, a car is a car, if it goes no need to spend much money.

J Kimmel
10-07-2009, 07:04 AM
no.

way.

really....


I second what Dave said, remember swapping mine? 600 bucks and it was running home on Sunday...I'm up for it.

J Kimmel
10-07-2009, 07:06 AM
Oh, the oil pan HAS been off, but never put back on.



-LeiniesRed

wait wait wait this might be the low pressure problem:confused:

rover67
10-07-2009, 08:49 AM
NO WAY!! I figured it'd just last for ever!

Kinda sad.

Something domestic under the hood would be fun, but you are thinking the whole truck is nearing the end right? I mean, I look at the 60 and think that at some point I will have to move on.

If your diffs are fine, and the t cases are just in need of a rebuild, it seems like it'd be pretty cheap to rebuild the axle and put it all in a different mini. But I don't knwo much about all that.

Seems like you have a nice setup still, and all those parts would be $$ to build back up again.

you can drive the 60 on the snow run, I'll return the favor for lettng mead and I bounce around in the red truck the first time I was out with you guys :)

FJBRADY
10-07-2009, 09:09 AM
The inevitable has finally happened.




Domestic V8 swap?


-LeiniesRed



Bummer, but it's all about "peak fun" with a Domestic V8......I think you would be the first with a swapped V8 4Runnner in the club.

farnhamstj
10-07-2009, 09:15 AM
Bummer. I'm sure you'll come up with a good solution. Might I sugest a Land Cruiser built say between 1998-2007, because no one else will.

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 09:41 AM
Same position, I'd find an OK 3VZ from someone who did the 3.4L swap and keep on trucking with minimal additional money. Done and forgotten in a weekend. I spent the winter of 2006 dealing with my engine all the while cussing the lack of a 4WD truck. Grrrr. I've come full circle to my 16 year old self, a car is a car, if it goes no need to spend much money.
Geez, for the same work and ~$1K - 1.5K instead of $600 you can be running a 5VZ with less than 100K miles that bolts right in, and fuggedaboudit. Then go wear out your tires.

I do believe you have wiring skilz... which in your truck should be minimal... TheFatKid does these routinely in a weekend. Don't want to mess with a crossover? Bud's Muffler can build you a working dual exhaust I would bet.
Rebuilding trannys is well within your skillset as well. You've seen my article. If I can do it...

If you want to get fancy and lazy, take the modern R150 tranny behind the 5VZ and buy a V6 adapter plate. Even doing this, it will be your best cost/benefit ratio. Shift like buttah.

If you like circles, put in a newer 3VZ. You won't find another 88-89, so my bet is you will finally greet the HG troll as well.

Unless you hate removable tops and simply just cannot live without going into deep debt. Then by all means buy something newish.

FJBRADY
10-07-2009, 09:43 AM
Steve, I just thought of this again and it would be pretty sweet to have a late model Tacoma on the trail SAS'd and on 37's. Either way we need to get you back on the trail with something you enjoy wheeling.

If you need any help turning a wrench let me know.

4RunrFTW
10-07-2009, 09:57 AM
Keep the 4Runner dude, we need the representation from the mini contingent. :D I'd vote 5VZ, tranny work, and some paint. You were talking about body mods for the 37's anyway, so removing your fenders should take care of the rust. When my 22RE finally dies in another 150,000 or so, I'll swap to the 3.4.

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 10:12 AM
Keep the 4Runner dude, we need the representation from the mini contingent. :D I'd vote 5VZ, tranny work, and some paint. You were talking about body mods for the 37's anyway, so removing your fenders should take care of the rust. When my 22RE finally dies in another 150,000 or so, I'll swap to the 3.4.
Hear hear!

The 22RE-to-5VZ swap is a BUNCH harder to do... but it can be done. I paid someone else because I had a house to build. I bet I could do a respectable job now though.

(no that is not an offer... :lmao: :lmao: )

DaveInDenver
10-07-2009, 10:25 AM
Geez, for the same work and ~$1K - 1.5K instead of $600 you can be running a 5VZ with less than 100K miles that bolts right in, and fuggedaboudit. Then go wear out your tires.
Engine bolts in but the wiring harnesses and ECU don't just plug in do they? Time ain't free and 2009/2010 ski season opened today...

Uncle Ben
10-07-2009, 10:33 AM
Hear hear!

The 22RE-to-5VZ swap is a BUNCH harder to do... but it can be done. I paid someone else because I had a house to build. I bet I could do a respectable job now though.

(no that is not an offer... :lmao: :lmao: )

Wiring is not that tough! You just need to be organized, take time and detail is your friend!

DaveInDenver
10-07-2009, 10:45 AM
Wiring is not that tough! You just need to be organized, take time and detail is your friend!
The change from a 22R to a VZ engine requires moving motor mounts, different transmission, changing the t-case cross member. It's no easier to do a 22R->5VZ swap than to go to something completely different. If I was to do a swap of my 22R-E it would be to a VW 1.9L TDi, Mercedes OM617 or (probably) a 3RZ so that I could keep the drivetrain alone other than an adapter to the W56. Actually the 2.7L 3RZ swap makes the most sense in a 22R truck since it only requires a Marlin bellhousing and the wiring.

Jacket
10-07-2009, 10:47 AM
I love your Runner. Keep it!

Uncle Ben
10-07-2009, 10:57 AM
The change from a 22R to a VZ engine requires moving motor mounts, different transmission, changing the t-case cross member. It's no easier to do a 22R->5VZ swap than to go to something completely different. If I was to do a swap of my 22R-E it would be to a VW 1.9L TDi, Mercedes OM617 or (probably) a 3RZ so that I could keep the drivetrain alone other than an adapter to the W56. Actually the 2.7L 3RZ swap makes the most sense in a 22R truck since it only requires a Marlin bellhousing and the wiring.

I totally agree on the 22R --> 3RZ swap! I wouldn't hesitate the swap in a second if I had a 22R powered slug!

DaveInDenver
10-07-2009, 11:04 AM
I totally agree on the 22R --> 3RZ swap! I wouldn't hesitate the swap in a second if I had a 22R powered slug!
In hindsight that is really what I should have done. Sigh.

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 11:26 AM
Engine bolts in but the wiring harnesses and ECU don't just plug in do they? Time ain't free and 2009/2010 ski season opened today...
Just some body harness re-plugging. Not that tough. The crossover solution is harder, but doable, as a point of reference.

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 11:28 AM
The change from a 22R to a VZ engine requires moving motor mounts, different transmission, changing the t-case cross member. It's no easier to do a 22R->5VZ swap than to go to something completely different. ... Actually the 2.7L 3RZ swap makes the most sense in a 22R truck since it only requires a Marlin bellhousing and the wiring.
True, and popular.

But even with a 5VZ I find myself occasionally fantasizing about a blower.
Bigger is better. Even more economical, counterintuitively.

leiniesred
10-07-2009, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the input, team.

An hour ago I was ready to try to sell the 4runner as-is, then trade in my MR2-Spyder on a 2001-2004 Tacoma and build a much smaller, daily driver truck. You know, something that I can drive to Moab without earplugs yet still hit trails with.

The good news is that I have TIME to decide.

If I need a winter 4x4, I can borrow my Father in-law's original Colorado adventure rig, a 1980 full size Jeep named, "Midnight."

Hulk
10-07-2009, 11:54 AM
No head gaskets, never adjusted the valves, plug wires 150,000 miles ago, platinum plugs 100,000 miles ago, 2 distributor caps, 3 timing belt jobs with water pumps, front main seal, cam seals, hmmm, that's about it. Oh, the oil pan HAS been off, but never put back on. I switched to a T-100 wheel drive pan for solid axle swap clearance about 5 years ago. Always passed smog, original catalytic converter. EGR valve was "broken" for the last 150,000 miles. broke a radiator. Changed the big hoses only. 1 power steering pump, and a few precautionary belt changes.

272,086 miles was the limit for my 3vz-e's con-rod bearings.

You got your money's worth!

Whatever you decide to do, go with your gut. If you still love the 4Runner, drop in a new engine and continue the love affair. If you look at it with despair -- too many rusted panels, too much to do, and it makes you tired just thinking about it -- get something newer and start a new era of fun.

You could have a ton of fun with an FJ Cruiser, couldn't you?

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 12:06 PM
At the risk of enduring an Inquisition...

If you are trending toward newer... Spanky, you know a 4 door Rubicon is what you seek. Very little to do to make it go, and it is the only vehicle even close to a 1st gen 4Runner since Toyota abandoned the original vision.

(Squishy reports being quite impressed with his stocker in Maui... and I will go on record that I would buy one if the need arose. Hey, I can be an associate member! Or put a Toyota emblem on the grille :lmao:)

DaveInDenver
10-07-2009, 12:20 PM
At the risk of enduring an Inquisition...

If you are trending toward newer... Spanky, you know a 4 door Rubicon is what you seek. Very little to do to make it go, and it is the only vehicle even close to a 1st gen 4Runner since Toyota abandoned the original vision.

(Squishy reports being quite impressed with his stocker in Maui... and I will go on record that I would buy one if the need arose. Hey, I can be an associate member! Or put a Toyota emblem on the grille :lmao:)
Meh. Ask an owner in 5 years if they're still happy with it. Probably say the Jeep dealer has crappy coffee in the service waiting lounge. I strayed from Hondatoyota and attempted a domestic vehicle once, a Ford Ranger. Drove me straight back to a Toyota in only 3 years. It took a big leap to buy this Jetta... But it was made in Wolfsburg and not Mexico, so I dunno.

Uncle Ben
10-07-2009, 12:27 PM
At the risk of enduring an Inquisition...

If you are trending toward newer... Spanky, you know a 4 door Rubicon is what you seek. Very little to do to make it go, and it is the only vehicle even close to a 1st gen 4Runner since Toyota abandoned the original vision.

(Squishy reports being quite impressed with his stocker in Maui... and I will go on record that I would buy one if the need arose. Hey, I can be an associate member! Or put a Toyota emblem on the grille :lmao:)

Why does this mini owner not surprise me on what he views as similar? :eek: :p:

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 01:09 PM
You're right. An FJ40 is extremely similar to a Jeep. Except only two doors.

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 01:11 PM
Meh. Ask an owner in 5 years if they're still happy with it. ... I strayed from Hondatoyota and attempted a domestic vehicle once, a Ford Ranger. Drove me straight back to a Toyota in only 3 years.
Yeah, I was Meh about my '97 Powerstroke too.

As far as happy in 5 years... I know too many Jeep owners who are.

No, not Toyota... but nothing Toyota currently makes has ANY appeal to me at ALL. So what's a country boy to do? :cheers:

wesintl
10-07-2009, 01:13 PM
nothing Toyota currently SELLS in the US has ANY appeal to me at ALL. :o

fixed

DaveInDenver
10-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Yeah, I was Meh about my '97 Powerstroke too.

As far as happy in 5 years... I know too many Jeep owners who are.

No, not Toyota... but nothing Toyota currently makes has ANY appeal to me at ALL. So what's a country boy to do? :cheers:
LOL! None of them do much for me, but then again I'm the nut job who doesn't care about a live front axle. That's really the main thing that makes the Jeep all that and more over a Toyota, isn't it? I'll take your word on owners, I know one newer Jeep owner and that's a Cherokee, so I guess they /do/ last longer than 5 years. The couple of people who have Jeeps here own old CJs, so they are usually driving their Civics anyway...

Uncle Ben
10-07-2009, 02:01 PM
You're right. An FJ40 is extremely similar to a Jeep. Except only two doors.

Opinions vary!

Red_Chili
10-07-2009, 02:29 PM
Aw, UB, I was just squeezing through a crack in the door you left open...

But it really is true- removable top/ soft top, 4 doors, live axle (yeah, pretty important) and a pretty well sorted suspension system, good starting platform for a build with a plethora of aftermarket support to build a hell-for-stout 4x4, long enough to serve as a light tow vehicle (trailer)... Downside being the powerplant. Needs oomph. But there are aftermarket folks pouring in to fill the gap.

Sounds familiar in most respects, doesn't it? Put a Toy badge on the concept and watch them go. But they won't. :(

Squishy currently has a built truck that is competent off road, and a sleeper 4Runner that isn't as much, but will make a decent family car. A JK could do both. Will you get 278,000 miles out of it? Probably not.

I am dead certain Toyota could build a much better version. But alas, they won't.

TIMZTOY
10-07-2009, 02:42 PM
Id reccomend getting a 96 + 4runner with the 3.4 that way you can just swap all your good parts. Do a SAS and still have the 4runner love. And you'll still be represinting the mini's with a newer, stronger, more reliable version. Of your old truck. That will capable of daily driver duties.

I've got the 3rz In my Tacoma. I know it's a lot better than the 22re but franklly I find it very slugish ( 100% stock prerunner, a340e ) I'm currentlly getting my cards lined up for a 2jz swap. Not sure yet if i want the turbo or none turbo though. And b4 or during I'll be SASing the front (3-link) and 4-link rear.

Uncle Ben
10-07-2009, 03:15 PM
Aw, UB, I was just squeezing through a crack in the door you left open...



Ya I know I left it ajar. I, like most here, will admit watching the Rubicon blossom into a practical 4 door, trail ready fun machine. Unfortunately, Detroit still falls short in building vehicles that will last dependably as long as I and others hang on to junk. 4Doors, 4-1 T-case, factory Lockers, removable top and aftermarket companies out the kazoo are very much items of desire! But putting that much effort and money into a market class vehicle that is not designed to still have much life after 100k miles just takes the shine right off the package, at least for me.

J Kimmel
10-07-2009, 10:06 PM
lotta work either way man. I get the idea of starting over...

would you -

build a new one similar? Keeping any parts to swap over?

that would be where I would start my thinking. If I was building something different/something new and you are thinking about ditching most of the parts, then you ought to take the effort to put in a new/used 3VZ since then you can sell it. Parting is not much fun unless you are keeping the lions share for a new build..otherwise you are throwing money away. Its worth much more as a running vehicle, get it that way first !

otherwise you could swap, I dunno, I know its slick but I am too lazy really to do an engine swap, it always ends up being twice what you budgeted and I don't dive mine anyhow (that could be a swaying factor if I did) I don't mind the lack of power in my 22re but then it starts everytime right? (I know you can put in a pretty reliable swap)

Tires are going to be loud no matter what you have with your tires...if you want it to quiet down put a hard top on and get some MTR's...or a trailer for it.

I know the red runner has miles, but a tight newish engine would make a difference. Its not really that worn out, its just showing some wear.

leiniesred
10-08-2009, 02:13 PM
I'm amazed at the club's interest in the ol' 89 4runner's nostalgia value with the club!


JKimmel: Thanks for sharing your experiences with engine swaps, parting out, and starting over. All very good points.

If I went to a Tacoma, the only money parts I would be able to keep would be the dual transfer cases I think. Far less then the "lion's share."

I was runnin' the numbers and I think the most economical path is to fix the 4runner IF I can do it for < $1000.

I think Ige has the right idea to start. Get a piece of scrap carpet for comfort, drain the oil, drop the pan, pull the rod caps, clean up the jounals with some crocus cloth, mic the journals, go to Napa and get a set of oversized rod bearings. Install, bolt everything back together, dump the oil back in and see how long that lasts. 1 day, $50 experiment. Robby will be so proud of my farm boy engine repair he'll have tears in his eyes (for some reason).

If a down and dirty bearing swap doesn't do the trick, find a running 3.0 for <$1000 for a direct weekend swap.

rover67
10-08-2009, 04:20 PM
I like the idea of the dirty bearing swap.. keeps the theme of the truck going.

DaveInDenver
10-08-2009, 04:23 PM
Sounds like a plan. I would personally refill after the bearing R&R with 10W40 or 20W50 and steer clear of the fancy synthetic stuff.

leiniesred
10-08-2009, 05:11 PM
Maybe I can just get some junkyard rod bearings to REALLY stay with the theme.

subzali
10-08-2009, 05:13 PM
One thought about newer vehicles: I think you would almost have to shift what you want to take the truck on (not sure a new Jeep, without throwing a bunch of $$ into it at least, will do Indy etc. in Penrose) if you were to get a newer vehicle. I like where you're going to start, eventually you'll probably be tired enough to sell it, if you are also tired of taking it on tough trails as well. My two cents.

rover67
10-08-2009, 05:37 PM
Maybe I can just get some junkyard rod bearings to REALLY stay with the theme.


hey i'm not tryin' to bust your chops! just saying that thing won't Die, and it's not ready to yet!

FJBRADY
10-08-2009, 06:02 PM
I was runnin' the numbers and I think the most economical path is to fix the 4runner IF I can do it for < $1000.

I think Ige has the right idea to start. Get a piece of scrap carpet for comfort, drain the oil, drop the pan, pull the rod caps, clean up the jounals with some crocus cloth, mic the journals, go to Napa and get a set of oversized rod bearings. Install, bolt everything back together, dump the oil back in and see how long that lasts. 1 day, $50 experiment. Robby will be so proud of my farm boy engine repair he'll have tears in his eyes (for some reason).

If a down and dirty bearing swap doesn't do the trick, find a running 3.0 for <$1000 for a direct weekend swap.


Atta boy :hill:

J Kimmel
10-08-2009, 09:29 PM
if its the engine you ought to be able to get it done for well under that.

timmbuck2
10-09-2009, 08:47 AM
http://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/1413077056.html

Red_Chili
10-09-2009, 09:01 AM
For $250 more you can get a fine running one. For $200 more than that you can get one with 175 psi compression and under 80K miles. No touchee, drop it in.

But a good deal if you need an auto tranny too!

Just how does he know the HG is blown? Not a common occurrence with a 5VZ. No, I do not believe I would trust anyone but myself to fix it, were it me (unless it was someone of Robbie's class, ATLR, etc.).

Red_Chili
10-09-2009, 09:02 AM
I think Ige has the right idea to start. Get a piece of scrap carpet for comfort, drain the oil, drop the pan, pull the rod caps, clean up the jounals with some crocus cloth, mic the journals, go to Napa and get a set of oversized rod bearings. Install, bolt everything back together, dump the oil back in
:eek: and see how long that lasts. 1 day, $50 experiment. Robby will be so proud of my farm boy engine repair he'll have tears in his eyes (for some reason).

<shudder>





:lmao:

Yep, that's Spanky style! If I tried it no way would it work. For some reason it works for you generally. Dunno about this time... it will probably hang together. More or less.

I hate things that could leave me in the middle of nowhere, towing a popup, in the snow, or in the San Rafael Swell, or...

treerootCO
10-09-2009, 05:40 PM
This been posted yet?

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1380078803.html

J Kimmel
10-09-2009, 05:58 PM
This been posted yet?

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1380078803.html

ooooo...now thats tempting. If it is what it says it is, you could swap the front end and most of your parts over with a little help in a weekend....:)

Red_Chili
10-10-2009, 04:45 PM
It's a 96+ frame/running gear ala Irbis. The only 86 part is the body. Doable but not a direct or easy swap.

leiniesred
10-10-2009, 07:07 PM
Drove the truck to the house. It was 22 degrees.
Engine is fairly quiet when cold.

Got the pan loose and JKimmel stopped by. Working with help makes things much more fun. Thanks Jeremy.

We checked the rods by wiggling them to find the loosest one and noted the sizes on the rods. (#2) Marked the 5 and 6 caps and took off number 5.

The crank pin on the loosest conrod bearing (#5) looks fine.
The thrust bearing feels ok, and I can't lever the crank around either, so that's a good sign.

I don't have a caliper that goes to 10,000ths and my favorite micrometer is too wide to measure the curved bearing shells, but I used a cheap caliper and measured the shell thicknesses at
.053 (rod) and .055 (cap). #2s are supposed to be .0584-.0586. So I around .008 loose.
.0031 is the maximum clearance.

NAPA only seams to stock 1 size "standard" bearing and they can't tell me the shell thickness of the bearings they sell.

Toyota, your high-price leader, wants $18 for a single bearing pair and it'll take 3-4 days to get it (them) in. I'm going to try to find an online vendor with specs. If that doesn't work out, Jeremy suggested calling Gunn automotive on Monday.


Here is a cell phone picture of the rod bearings.

Red_Chili
10-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Huh. Hard to tell from a cell phone pic, but... they don't really look too bad.

You may squeeze 300K out of that beast yet.

Uncle Ben
10-11-2009, 12:24 AM
Drove the truck to the house. It was 22 degrees.
Engine is fairly quiet when cold.

Got the pan loose and JKimmel stopped by. Working with help makes things much more fun. Thanks Jeremy.

We checked the rods by wiggling them to find the loosest one and noted the sizes on the rods. (#2) Marked the 5 and 6 caps and took off number 5.

The crank pin on the loosest conrod bearing (#5) looks fine.
The thrust bearing feels ok, and I can't lever the crank around either, so that's a good sign.

I don't have a caliper that goes to 10,000ths and my favorite micrometer is too wide to measure the curved bearing shells, but I used a cheap caliper and measured the shell thicknesses at
.053 (rod) and .055 (cap). #2s are supposed to be .0584-.0586. So I around .008 loose.
.0031 is the maximum clearance.

NAPA only seams to stock 1 size "standard" bearing and they can't tell me the shell thickness of the bearings they sell.

Toyota, your high-price leader, wants $18 for a single bearing pair and it'll take 3-4 days to get it (them) in. I'm going to try to find an online vendor with specs. If that doesn't work out, Jeremy suggested calling Gunn automotive on Monday.


Here is a cell phone picture of the rod bearings.


Those are not the bad bearings Spanky! For giggles I would check #6. You will see signs of flaking on the one thats talking!

leiniesred
10-11-2009, 01:44 AM
Ben and Bill: Yeah, I expected to see one blackened rod cap from the one that got hot, but they all look the same. Indeed, these bearings, while visually thin, didn't spin and don't show any galling at all.

Maybe I caught it in time? Again, it didn't sound too bad in the cold this morning.
Maybe the Zinc in the STP (good enough for Richard Petty, good enough for me!) kept them from galling?
Maybe I'll find bearings double stacked on one of the "tight" rods?
Maybe it is all skirt slap or a loose wrist pin? Broken ring? (no way. Too loud on the bottom of the engine and too "deep" sounding It really sounds like rod knock.)

I think I might just take a chance on the aftermarket, single standard size bearings. Get me a set of Clevite 77s. (#2s are right in the middle of Toyota's standard sizes and that is probably where the aftermarket "standard" size bearings are anyway.) Once I have them in my hand and I find a ball tip micrometer (mine is an anvil tip), I can measure them and compare them to Toyota #2 specs. Install and plastigage them, and if they are in spec, do the next one. If I find them too loose with the "standard" size, I can then order some #3s at the Toyota garage to see if that tightens things up enough.

DaveInDenver
10-11-2009, 03:41 AM
Piston slap. You got another 50K before you gotta worry. My engine had a weird sound I could never track down for 6 years until the timing chain let loose. You worry too much. Put in thicker oil and go skiing tomorrow. Just don;t call too early, my head hurt already.

leiniesred
10-17-2009, 04:27 PM
Got under the truck today with my $28 NAPA "standard" size bearings.

Bearing info:
Altrom Group
6B8060 000
1000095
MADE IN JAPAN
The box brand is: TAIHO

Target bearing clearances: .024 - .053mm

2,3,4,5,6 were all about .040mm. all within spec.

Things went well until #1. The tale of the plastigauge tells me more than .051 mm. Bummer.

Toyota #3 standard bearings are .004mm thicker. That would tighten up my clearance to about .045mm and put me just about where the rest of the bearings are.

Looks like I need to order a couple of bearings from Toyota.
No truck in Moab for me on the 22nd I'm afraid.

Kevin: No one bearing looked tragic. There is very minor galling on the top #3 bearing. #3 also happens to have a score mark on the bottom bearing.
Geez, now I hope the noise is actually a rod bearing!

Tip for the next guy: If you do this on an old, well worn engine, you probably have room to go 1 size thicker on the bearing shell. All of my Toyota #2 bearings could have been replaced with Toyota #3 bearings and remained in spec.

J Kimmel
10-17-2009, 06:09 PM
were you able to slide the top ones out ok??

how long to order from Toyota?

WE CAN DO THIS!!!

:D

leiniesred
10-18-2009, 12:18 AM
Yep. Slipping in the top bearings isn't too hard.
Parts should be in at Toyota on Wednesday.

I might pull the crank girdle off and take a quick look.

None of the old bearings look bad enough or measure out thin enough to account for all that banging.

leiniesred
10-27-2009, 10:09 AM
Put my engine back together yesterday. Hours and hours of cleaning parts.

Kevin was right. None of those bearings were bad. Finished the farm-boy rod bearing replacement. SAME NOISE! Dang. I should have done the mains too.

Wait a minute. What about these ol' idler pullys? Pull the belts off the front = no noise!
Start to put the AC belt back on and find 2 inches of belt chunked out!
Replace 2 belts with new spare belts. Start up. No noise.

All that downtime for nothing more than a belt!

FJBRADY
10-27-2009, 10:13 AM
Put my engine back together yesterday. Hours and hours of cleaning parts.

Kevin was right. None of those bearings were bad. Finished the farm-boy rod bearing replacement. SAME NOISE! Dang. I should have done the mains too.

Wait a minute. What about these ol' idler pullys? Pull the belts off the front = no noise!
Start to put the AC belt back on and find 2 inches of belt chunked out!
Replace 2 belts with new spare belts. Start up. No noise.

All that downtime for nothing more than a belt!

Wow....sounds like good news to me! but what do I know......:drink:

subzali
10-27-2009, 10:26 AM
I thought my timing chain on my 22R-E was going bad and it turned out it was my A/C belt had cracked and was missing some pieces. Funny what paranoia will do to you.

rover67
10-27-2009, 11:26 AM
Holy smokes man!!!

Well hey, IT"S RUNNING AGAIN!!!!!

That's both frustrating as hell and super cool all at the same time. I'm glad you got it figured out. The bottom end looks great on that motor still :) And now it's kinda rebuilt!

I was at Elliot's house this weekend and he said he saw you feverishly working on the thing to "head to Moab tomorrow!" Glad you got it going again! See, it'll never die!

FJBRADY
10-27-2009, 11:32 AM
Holy smokes man!!!


he saw you feverishly working on the thing to "head to Moab tomorrow!" Glad you got it going again! See, it'll never die!

Have a great time in Moab :thumb:

Red_Chili
10-27-2009, 12:53 PM
Put my engine back together yesterday. Hours and hours of cleaning parts.

Kevin was right. None of those bearings were bad. Finished the farm-boy rod bearing replacement. SAME NOISE! Dang. I should have done the mains too.

Wait a minute. What about these ol' idler pullys? Pull the belts off the front = no noise!
Start to put the AC belt back on and find 2 inches of belt chunked out!
Replace 2 belts with new spare belts. Start up. No noise.

All that downtime for nothing more than a belt!
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Don't feel bad. I once took a motorcycle apart only to discover it was out of gas.
:cheers:

leiniesred
10-27-2009, 01:31 PM
Actually, that was feverishly working after getting back from Moab. Had a great trip even without the 4Runner.

pmccumber
10-27-2009, 02:31 PM
Don't feel bad. I once took a motorcycle apart only to discover it was out of gas.

That is funny! I have a friend in Arizona who crash landed his Navion south of the Grand Canyon cause he ran out of gas. He got on the ground and realized he had gas in the other tank.