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rover67
10-16-2009, 07:00 PM
Don't know if any of you have tried this before...

http://www.oldengine.org/members/orrin/rustdemo.htm

I tried it on a small piece and it worked...

Tonight I dropped in my "new" front bib.

We'll see what happens.....

Corbet
10-16-2009, 07:10 PM
I've heard of it but never tried it myself.

nuclearlemon
10-16-2009, 08:39 PM
i've done it on a small basis with an old eastwood kit. took some midwestern marker lights and made them darn near new.

Snowrun
10-18-2009, 10:45 PM
How well did it work? Do you have pics?

Uncle Ben
10-19-2009, 08:12 AM
Anyone have a swimming pool that folks can put 55's in?

wesintl
10-19-2009, 08:18 AM
Anyone have a swimming pool that folks can put 55's in?

LOL :lmao:

rover67
10-19-2009, 08:23 AM
Anyone have a swimming pool that folks can put 55's in?

Don't laugh, I saw a post where somebody built a big tank out of plywood and pqnters plastic to put a whole frame in :eek:

rover67
10-19-2009, 08:24 AM
How well did it work? Do you have pics?

It worked pretty well, I need to take pics today.

I ended up hooking it up to the welder at 40 amps for about a day. Lots of the thick rust between panels was taking a while to come off. as a side benifit, it took most of the paint off..

I'll snap photos today after work.

Uncle Ben
10-19-2009, 08:26 AM
It worked pretty well, I need to take pics today.

I ended up hooking it up to the welder at 40 amps for about a day. Lots of the thick rust between panels was taking a while to come off. as a side benifit, it took most of the paint off..

I'll snap photos today after work.

What did you use for an electrolyte?

powderpig
10-19-2009, 10:05 AM
A guy I am doing some stuff for on a LC 300, has been doing this for many years for restoring old machinery(lathes, mills, etc). He has a fuel tank out of the SC he is trying to get the rust out of, then coat it. This will by far be his biggest piece he has done. The stuff he has showed me looked near new. I hope he did not blow him self up, as I have not heard from him in a week.

Caribou Sandstorm
10-19-2009, 10:11 AM
Hey Marco that is pretty cool, total science guy stuff!

PabloCruise
10-19-2009, 12:05 PM
Anyone have a swimming pool that folks can put 55's in?

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

rover67
10-19-2009, 12:26 PM
What did you use for an electrolyte?

Sodium Carbonate, about 1 tbs. per gallon.

It is sold as washing soda, soda ash, or PH up for pools. I just went to lowes and got a tub of PH up. Total investment with the trash can included was like 33 bucks.

Jacket
10-19-2009, 12:36 PM
Yea - but now you are on the government watch list for terrorists. ;)

rover67
10-19-2009, 09:11 PM
So while this thing looks really nice, I dont think its the way to remove heavy rust from in between panels. The spot that had the most rust and was the most difficult to get at was at the bottom lip of the Bib where the metal is sandwiched. You can see how buckled it is from being filled with rust before. The eletrolytic rust removal thing got most of it out and made the rest of the panel shiny, but didn't get all of it out.....

So, looks like I'll still have to get it blasted.

In the spots where there was surface rust, it came off really really well. I guess the shielded areas just dont get enough current.

Also, I ended up ditching the battery charger hooked up to it after one night and hooked my Tig up to it. I let it run at 40 amps for basically two days.

In about 6 hours the surface rust was all gone, I just let it run for a longer time to try and get at the rust in between the layers. Who knows what our electric bill will be this month.

So, here ya go:

rover67
10-19-2009, 09:12 PM
last pic.

TIMZTOY
10-19-2009, 11:02 PM
Well holly shiznet I'm offically impressed. I've never herd of this process but I like it. I'll deffentlly have to give er a try:thumb:

Jacket
10-20-2009, 08:35 AM
I agree. Based on what I saw before hand, it's pretty impressive (unless of course Xcel hits you with a $500 electric bill).

Will sand blasting be able to get into that pinched crease?

rover67
10-20-2009, 08:59 AM
:eek: yeah, we'll see about the electric bill..

It ran even better when i turned the welder up to like 60 amps, but i didn't think that was neccesary..

After looking at it more last night, I think i'm gonna drill out the spot welds and put it back in the tank, that way all of the rust is on the surface. then i'll start making patches.

I am going to have to take that lower peice off anyways so I might as well try sticking it back in the tub afterwards.

subzali
10-20-2009, 09:05 AM
Wow, very cool Marco! Too bad to see there is so much cancer on your bib...I've seen more and more FJ40s developing that, so I probably should check mine and make sure it's okay! One of these days I'm going to have to face the rust demons myself...every year there's a couple more bubbles and the holes in the driver door and floorboard get a little bigger...:(

farnhamstj
10-20-2009, 09:21 AM
Why so much work? Are you doing a total resto? I think I replaced mine with a fiberglass piece for about $100? Don't get me wrong, I like playing with chemicals and electricity as much as the next guy. That set up reminds me of Frankenstien. Bring em back from the dead!!! perfect before the spooky run. keep up the good work

rover67
10-20-2009, 09:33 AM
I'm gonna try and restore it. I'm trying to stick to stock metal parts if I can. The bib in the pictures is one I got to replace the early model one that's on the truck.. it was in a little worse shape than I thought.

Next up after this is the windshield frame.

wesintl
10-20-2009, 05:02 PM
Nice.. but it begs the question, why didn't you just buy a new bib from toyota :confused:

rover67
10-20-2009, 05:13 PM
probably should have. might do it still.

I'm a moron and didn't think to look with toyota first. I only realized the part might still be available after i bought this one..

Rzeppa
10-20-2009, 07:08 PM
There was an ongoing thread in the LCML several years back about this (and yes the total immersion comments were in there). I have also thought of trying this method. Just now I did a search on the LCML subscriber (Mark "coolerman" Baker) who was doing this and turned everyone on to it, but couldn't find his web site. He had an extensive tutorial with a lot of photos. I'll try to dig up the link to his site.

rover67
10-20-2009, 07:14 PM
that'd be cool Jeff!

I say a few folks on MUD had tried it, don't know if it was the same guy. That's where i actually got the idea...

Rezarf
10-20-2009, 08:04 PM
There was a dude on mud who built a small pool for this operation. Pretty sweet if you ask me, however, I would rather have someone else mess with it with a sandblaster for all the headache.

Looks good marco!

Drew

Corbet
10-20-2009, 09:10 PM
would a kids pool work better than the garbage can for the size of panels your trying to submerse?

Hulk
10-20-2009, 09:15 PM
There was an ongoing thread in the LCML several years back about this (and yes the total immersion comments were in there). I have also thought of trying this method. Just now I did a search on the LCML subscriber (Mark "coolerman" Baker) who was doing this and turned everyone on to it, but couldn't find his web site. He had an extensive tutorial with a lot of photos. I'll try to dig up the link to his site.

Is the LCML back up?

Rzeppa
10-20-2009, 09:38 PM
Is the LCML back up?

No. I will try calling Morgan again. TLCA should be hosting it.

Jacket
10-20-2009, 10:12 PM
There was an ongoing thread in the LCML several years back about this (and yes the total immersion comments were in there). I have also thought of trying this method. Just now I did a search on the LCML subscriber (Mark "coolerman" Baker) who was doing this and turned everyone on to it, but couldn't find his web site. He had an extensive tutorial with a lot of photos. I'll try to dig up the link to his site.

This one?

http://www.globalsoftware-inc.com/coolerman/fj40/rustremoval.htm

Rzeppa
10-20-2009, 10:19 PM
This one?

http://www.globalsoftware-inc.com/coolerman/fj40/rustremoval.htm

Thanks Matt! Yep, that's my friend Mark!

rover67
10-21-2009, 04:07 PM
Nice.. but it begs the question, why didn't you just buy a new bib from toyota :confused:


So I feel a little bit better now.. Jerry at Boulder Toyota says I can't get the front Bib anymore.

I wish it weren't true because his price was not too much more than what I paid for this used rusty one. I'da just got it from him in a heart beat.

Uncle Ben
10-21-2009, 04:13 PM
So I feel a little bit better now.. Jerry at Boulder Toyota says I can't get the front Bib anymore.

I wish it weren't true because his price was not too much more than what I paid for this used rusty one. I'da just got it from him in a heart beat.

Buy an Aqualu! Cheaper than stock and will never ever rust!

rover67
10-21-2009, 04:32 PM
Jerry said he called ya :)

wesintl
10-21-2009, 04:37 PM
huh, bummer! toyota must have just run out.. I could swore I saw someone get one on mud just recently.

timmbuck2
10-21-2009, 04:49 PM
I think I have a couple of rust free ones in storage...

rover67
10-23-2009, 07:14 AM
Timm, are they the square front bezel ones? If so I am interested in checking them out, Just let me know! :thumb:


I did another part in this tank last night, just hooked up to my 10 amp battery charger. it worked really well. I think total time in there was 7 hours.

Hulk
10-23-2009, 12:21 PM
Wow! What a difference!

Rezarf
10-23-2009, 12:30 PM
What is that?

rover67
10-23-2009, 01:13 PM
Fuel pickup for the old tank out of the FJ60, I pulled that tank out to swap it with the LRA 40 gallon tank a while back and somebody on mud is interested in the pickup.

rover67
10-23-2009, 01:17 PM
Wow! What a difference!

yeah, I think this is the kind of stuff the technique works great on. I'll keep my tank outside of the garage and probably use it to derust little stuff as it comes off fo the 40.

What I liked the most about the process is it get's rusted on fasteners loose REALLY well. The front bib I did had the screws for the bezel broken off in it because they were rusted in there and somebody just tried to force them out. After derusting it the broken off bolt peices literally came out with my fingers spinning the tiny exposed piece. Really unbelievable.

subzali
11-05-2009, 09:30 PM
I'm glad this isn't the only way to remove broken bolts. My rear crossmember had two broken bolts in it from the bumperettes and I was having a hard time figuring out how to get my rear crossmember in a tub of electrolyte...

...well a few days ago I sprayed them with PB Blaster and tonight I put a vise grips on the threads that were sticking through the tacked nuts and they both were loose! One continued all the way through the nut and the other I had to carefully back out until I could grab the broken end on the outside of the crossmember and I was able to get it all the way out too! Now I can move on with my project!

...but I don't want to hijack Marco's thread - one of these days hopefully I'll have the opportunity to try it for myself on some parts...super cool. So what else have you done Marco? :D

rover67
11-05-2009, 10:20 PM
Lets see.. this week has been busy.

Got the extra FJ60 chrome wheels, the front bezel, and lots of random bits and peices at the powder coaters getting done. Thanks to Mike I finally decided to do the bezel and wheels in cygnus white. I don't knwo why that was such a hard decision for me. The rest of the bits are gonna be gloss black (air cleaner, front bib screen, ect.)

Dropped the seats off to get rebuilt at the trim shop on wed. they are getting fresh foam, new covers, broken springs fixed, and heating elements. Should be comfy now.

Bought a stainless tray from www.stainlesstrays.com and a deka group 27 battery. Got some kick a$$ cables made up for the starter and gounds, got an auxiliary fuse box with a switched side from Mike after the meeting wed. Gotta get those heated seats juice somehow. It'll be ready for a CB and lights too.

Got a bunch of emissions doodads from Elliot (thanks Elliot!!). Ordered 20ft. of OEM Vacuum hose from Stevenson to replace what is on the truck. 28 bucks for it... not bad.

Now I gotta make another stop at Boulder toyota for more bits before I get those things put back together.

The front Bib is gonna need more work, and I want to rebuild the windshield frame before putting those on. That will be a heck of a project.

Unfortunatly I will be out of town for a week, so the project is on hold for now.... But it makes it easy to wait on the powdercoaters and seat guy :)

nakman
11-05-2009, 11:33 PM
You're going to love the heated seats, just make sure you wire them to the switched on side, not the always on side. Otherwise in time you'll end up with a dead battery and a dead seat heater.. AMHIK! :)

but I'm jealous of the 40 project dude, keep it up! :thumb:

DaveInDenver
11-06-2009, 05:38 AM
I agree. Based on what I saw before hand, it's pretty impressive (unless of course Xcel hits you with a $500 electric bill).
Figure you pay about a nickel per kW-hr. So Marco's 40A welder consumes 8.8 kW (I assume it's 220 V). If he ran it for 2 full days that's 422.4 kW-hr, so about $21 for the energy.

rover67
11-06-2009, 07:26 AM
Figure you pay about a nickel per kW-hr. So Marco's 40A welder consumes 8.8 kW (I assume it's 220 V). If he ran it for 2 full days that's 422.4 kW-hr, so about $21 for the energy.

not as bad as I thought...

small partss are where i've found it's great though, and those are typically done in 6 hours at about 6 amps average.

MDH33
11-06-2009, 08:12 AM
Sounds like you're doing a great job, Marco. Can't wait to see the progress as it starts to come together. Have you started repairing rust on the tub yet? I would really like to help out if needed and see how it's done first hand. :thumb:

rover67
11-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Haven't started to tackle rust yet..

I tell ya what though, this place looks like they have some nice parts: http://pacolonline.com/

I was leaning away from CCOT... so this is refreshing!

Thanks Steve and EWheeler!

Jacket
11-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Haven't started to tackle rust yet..

I tell ya what though, this place looks like they have some nice parts: http://pacolonline.com/

I was leaning away from CCOT... so this is refreshing!

Thanks Steve and EWheeler!

Good find! I might need a drivers floor patch.

Rzeppa
11-07-2009, 06:26 PM
Figure you pay about a nickel per kW-hr. So Marco's 40A welder consumes 8.8 kW (I assume it's 220 V). If he ran it for 2 full days that's 422.4 kW-hr, so about $21 for the energy.

Electric power has been running between $0.09 to $0.11 per kWH here for the last several years. Most of mine is consumed by the air compressor and welder :eek:

Inukshuk
11-08-2009, 10:27 AM
Dropped the seats off to get rebuilt at the trim shop on wed. they are getting fresh foam, new covers, broken springs fixed, and heating elements. Should be comfy now.

Where?

I tell ya what though, this place looks like they have some nice parts: http://pacolonline.com/

This is terrible me forgetting his name but he's a really good guy. I have wheeled with him and his family at CM several times. He has a factory in Central America making these. Names, anyone? He wheels a tan 40, drove it from Georgia first time, trailered last time.

DaveInDenver
11-08-2009, 10:40 AM
Electric power has been running between $0.09 to $0.11 per kWH here for the last several years. Most of mine is consumed by the air compressor and welder :eek:
That's true, our rate is regular residential general from Xcel, which is 5.36 cents per kW-hr. But with all the fees, taxes and 'adjustments' we pay about 12.5 cents per kW-hr total.

subzali
11-08-2009, 07:54 PM
Where?



This is terrible me forgetting his name but he's a really good guy. I have wheeled with him and his family at CM several times. He has a factory in Central America making these. Names, anyone? He wheels a tan 40, drove it from Georgia first time, trailered last time.

Oscar Florez. He seemed like a real nice, neat guy. Did Hells Revenge with him and Farnham before CM'08. I couldn't remember the name of his company, but I know he does reproduction parts too. I was trying to look around for it when Marco posted this up...

Inukshuk
11-08-2009, 10:21 PM
Oscar Florez.

Right!

Rzeppa
11-09-2009, 05:31 PM
That's true, our rate is regular residential general from Xcel, which is 5.36 cents per kW-hr. But with all the fees, taxes and 'adjustments' we pay about 12.5 cents per kW-hr total.

I take the dollars and divide by the kWH. Just a bottom-line kind of mind-set :-)

What good is $0.06/KWH if it costs $43,793 for distribution, taxes and fees?

:lmao:

rover67
11-09-2009, 11:51 PM
Where?




This is terrible me forgetting his name but he's a really good guy. I have wheeled with him and his family at CM several times. He has a factory in Central America making these. Names, anyone? He wheels a tan 40, drove it from Georgia first time, trailered last time.

I went to this guy.

Auto Interiors PlusAddress:‎
Removal requested ()Restore requestedEdited
Write a review - - more info »Placement on map is approximate
1690 S. 112th St.
Broomfield, CO 80020

Get Directions
(303) 465-1134


He was recomended by another shop that specializes in furniture.

I picked it because it was close and he seemed nice.

I'll post up what it looks like when he's done. i think he's supposed to finish this week sometime.

azrider
11-13-2009, 09:29 PM
I achieved the same thing using citric acid powder.(you can buy it by the oz. at finer grocery stores, Here in Phoenix the store is called Sprouts Market) I used 8 oz. in this tub to clean up the surface rust on my old Robinson cruiser. Took it ALL off and left it shiny, without even messing up the frame stickers. I was really impressed after a 24 hour soak. No residue either. Just an alternative.

azrider
11-13-2009, 10:38 PM
I achieved the same thing using citric acid powder.(you can buy it by the oz. at finer grocery stores, Here in Phoenix the store is called Sprouts Market) I used 8 oz. in this tub to clean up the surface rust on my old Robinson cruiser. Took it ALL off and left it shiny, without even messing up the frame stickers. I was really impressed after a 24 hour soak. No residue either. Just an alternative.

rover67
11-16-2009, 08:28 PM
I agree. Based on what I saw before hand, it's pretty impressive (unless of course Xcel hits you with a $500 electric bill).

Will sand blasting be able to get into that pinched crease?


Bill for last month when I did all of this was 48 bucks for electricity (388KW hours). Not really that different from the month before that..

I have been using this technique to clean the plated parts on the engine, getting th erust off before taking them to get replated. Seems to be working well. They sit outside and derust while I work in the garage on other stuff. I like it so far.

subzali
11-17-2009, 08:22 AM
Haven't started to tackle rust yet..

I tell ya what though, this place looks like they have some nice parts: http://pacolonline.com/

I was leaning away from CCOT... so this is refreshing!

Thanks Steve and EWheeler!

Hm...inner door skins, lower outer door skins, floor patch under driver's side, rear fender wells, rear sill, bezel (with stamped Land Cruiser in it)...my shopping list is growing :o (and my pretend wallet is shrinking rapidly) - it looks like most of those prices are pretty reasonable, but they add up fast :eek:

...they got lots of neat body parts - door sills, b pillar, WHOLE TUBS if you need...

It looks like this is Oscar Florez - at least they claim to be, if you scroll to the bottom the zaskar_ofn username is the email that Oscar Florez has...

cool :cool:

Hulk
11-17-2009, 09:51 AM
Another option:
www.heritagesheetmetal.com (http://www.heritagesheetmetal.com/)

This is run by Lance at Iron Pig Off-Road.

subzali
11-17-2009, 12:03 PM
sweet...nice looking products...

...and of course there's the old standby of CCOT. Marco, you said you were staying away from them? What reasons?

rover67
11-17-2009, 01:17 PM
sweet...nice looking products...

...and of course there's the old standby of CCOT. Marco, you said you were staying away from them? What reasons?


I've had good luck with their service. They are responsive and seem really nice on the phone.

Some of the non toyota OEM stuff I've gotten from them seems kinda low quality.... They seem to have good feedback on their body panels though so that's a plus. I don't mind buying from them, I just have to know that what I am getting might be a pretty cheap aftermarket part.

subzali
12-02-2009, 02:45 PM
Is Rocky Mountain Cruisers still in business?
http://rockym.fatcow.com/store/steel.html

Rzeppa
12-04-2009, 05:25 PM
Is Rocky Mountain Cruisers still in business?
http://rockym.fatcow.com/store/steel.html

Ron has had the business up for sale since this past summer when he and his wife decided to retire to Costa Rica. I was very tempted to buy and operate the business, and Timm Buchanan was also interested. Ron wanted to sell and move by the end of October. I heard a rumor that an out of town buyer was interested and might move the shop elsewhere in CO, or perhaps out of state. I do not know the latest word.

I do know that he did not stock much parts locally for sale through their web store, but took orders and then middle manned them from the usual suppliers to his customers.

corsair23
12-04-2009, 05:58 PM
So does that mean you are no longer considering buying the business Jeff? :(

Rzeppa
12-05-2009, 10:22 PM
So does that mean you are no longer considering buying the business Jeff? :(

My wife told me she does not want me to do it. I like being married to her, so that is correct; ain't happening. :rolleyes:

rover67
12-05-2009, 10:27 PM
Bummer dude, that'd been sweet.

MDH33
01-29-2010, 08:15 AM
Hey Marco, I was thinking about trying this technique to derust an old crosscut saw blade. But, I thought I read in the link that you posted that it can make the steel brittle. Have you experienced this? Thanks!

rover67
01-29-2010, 09:17 AM
Whoa, I just lost my post somehow...

fumble fingers I guess...

Yes, it can make the steel brittle if you are working with a harder steel. It's called hydrogen embrittlement. We deal with it a lot in our industry since the chromium coating process for our instruments introduces a fair amount of hydrogen to the surface. It's addressed by simply baking the part at 375F for 8 hours.

FWIW though I've read that the electrolytic rust removal process dosen't cause nearly the problems that the electrodeposited coatings do. I've not really seen anything on the web where folks have had issues with the derusted parts and I've read about them doing stuff like saw blades. It affects the harder alloys more.

I'll pull the SAE AMS spec for hydrogen embrittlement relief and give it a read a bit later on. It'll probably give a better definition of what materials really need baking and which don't.

I don't think I'd worry about it too much though.

Also, if you don't want to set it all up I can take it from you ar the meeting and stick it in my tank. It'd be pretty easy..

MDH33
01-29-2010, 09:21 AM
That would be awesome! Thanks man. I'm still not sure if I'll be at the meeting Wednesday since Kim is due on Thursday. I'll let you know!

:beer:

rover67
02-09-2010, 11:16 AM
In case anybody was curious....

Here is the table with bake times for chemical treated, etched, or coated parts. Looks like the electrolytic rust removal probably falls into the "chem" category.

Also, in the spec it stated that these bake times only apply for materials that are 40HRC or 180ksi or more. Materials that are not that hard aren't as suceptible to hydrogen embritlement.