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60wag
10-23-2009, 02:25 PM
So my trusty Cruiser has devopled a new noise... about once every 10 starts, the starter makes a horrible half engaged grinding sound while cranking the engine. It has new contacts and plunger in the starter as of 6 months ago. At first I thought it might be getting a flaky signal from the ignition switch but after searching on MUD, it sounds like other people have eliminated the switch. There are lots of comments on this issue but not a solid consensus on how to fix it. I'm guessing the solenoid isn't keeping the starter gear extended while the motor is cranking. Is it worth going through the current starter to try to fix it or is this a problem that requires the starter to be replaced?

TIA,
Bruce

Uncle Ben
10-23-2009, 02:46 PM
You need a new muffler! Once you can hear thats it's already running you won't hit the starter 9 more times! :p:

corsair23
10-24-2009, 01:19 AM
Well...I proved that rebuilding the starter isn't fool proof :hill: - Might be worth taking it off to have a look...

powderpig
10-24-2009, 06:43 AM
One of the things that I have run into is if either one of the contact are not totally flat when you rebuild it. The starter will exhibit the same symptoms as a worn out set of contacts.
Is the main power wire in good shape and has no corrosion build up in the wire, if so replace the wire.

60wag
10-24-2009, 07:22 AM
I'll check out the cable and all of the electrical connections outside the starter first but expect to be examining the starter guts on Sunday.

60wag
10-31-2009, 06:05 PM
The cable looked good so I pulled the starter and checked the contacts. As Robbie described, only part of the contact is connecting with the plunger. It looks like the contacts should be crooked but both are squarely seated on the phenolic insulator under them. Rotating them isn't an option so I filed down the high spots and polished the contacts and the plunger. Its been working fine for a week now but I still can't explain what the root problem was that caused the poor contact.

nakman
10-31-2009, 10:07 PM
You can see the high spots in the first picture are directly related to how the contacts were torqued when you cranked down the nuts. i'm sure they were flat and you held them in place by hand, but when that nut got cranked I bet the edges lifted .010"- probably enough to make a difference.

If someone wanted to get fancy they should make a little jig that would bolt to the holes in the case, with a big jack bolt that you could crank down to keep the edge of the contact in place. Only better way to get it all flat would be to indicate the thing up in a mill and mill it all flat.

I got lucky when I did mine last winter because I definitely didn't give contact flatness the attention it deserved and I've thankfully had no problems. It's funny how these little intricacies are revealing themselves the more and more folks do these jobs... Or maybe I just notice it more now after so many years of web wrenching. Only bright spot on this one is the second time you take off the starter only takes about 1/3 of the time, right? That second pic looks pretty Bruce, good for another 120K miles.

corsair23
11-01-2009, 09:46 AM
Looks really familiar Bruce :hill: - First rebuild on the starter in the 80 only lasted ~7 months before I had this:

15568

I rebuilt the starter again in April so it is coming up on 7 months again...Funny though...on the LX I rebuilt the starter 2+ years ago (way before I had much of a clue about anything :hill:) and not a single issue...Sort of hit or miss on getting the contacts flush I guess without a real tool vs the end of my mallet.

Jacket
06-26-2010, 08:52 AM
So as I've got my starter apart and I'm replacing the contacts and plunger, I'm looking at all you shade tree guys that had issues seating the contacts, and I'm wonder if the issues have continued? Bruce - you're about 6 months from this last clean-up - has it been good this time around?

Obviously when I seat the contacts, they look to be square and flush, but I also realize that my naked eye can't see the smallest of gaps.

corsair23
06-26-2010, 10:16 PM
I gave up Matt and had a professional (aka Ben) rebuild mine for me - money well spent IMO...The :Princess: was getting tired of my failed attemps :doh:

Seems the trick is to actually make a block sized per the FSM to keep the contacts "square" and then use a press or something to keep them "flat" while tightening everything up. The other trick per Ben is not having the contact rotate when you are connecting back up the wires.

I can't explain why my rebuild on the LX is going on 3+ years with no problems while I failed twice on the 80 other than I got lucky with the LX :D

powderpig
06-27-2010, 07:09 AM
One trick to help learn is to use a little black magic marker and color the contact. Push the plunger down with out the spring and turn it back and forth. This should yield a pattern on the contacts showing how much metal to metal contact you have.

corsair23
06-27-2010, 10:15 PM
One trick to help learn is to use a little black magic marker and color the contact. Push the plunger down with out the spring and turn it back and forth. This should yield a pattern on the contacts showing how much metal to metal contact you have.

:thumb: - I seem to recall you mentioning that before...Now if I can just remember it :rolleyes: - I think I might print this trick out and stick it in my FSM :)

RayRay27
12-08-2016, 10:27 AM
Were any of you having any major grinding noises when you would start your rigs? My 94 80 is my weekend warrior so it sits in my garage most of the week. The last few weeks when I go to start it, it doesn't want to fire up right away kinda makes the, wa wa wa, sound then fires up. But when I tried to start it up yesterday it made the most god awful grinding noise right after it started and continued until I shut it off. The grinding noise sounds like it is coming from the fly wheel area. I have a new odyssey battery and all of my battery cables are good. Wasn't sure if anyone had some insight before I start to rip into my rig?

Thanks.

nakman
12-08-2016, 01:35 PM
Holy old thread revival... I guess I'd probably start by pulling the starter and replacing the plunger- could be the plunger isn't pulling back and the gear is getting caught in the flywheel? And may as well do the contacts also at that point, really the same job.

RayRay27
12-08-2016, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the reply. I'll look into it.

Lastresort576
12-09-2016, 12:10 AM
RayRay..that kinda sounds like the starter is sticking on.

SteveH
12-09-2016, 10:42 AM
A buddy of mine had an 80 series starter stick on (engaged in the flywheel) and the starter then becomes a generator. Bad things can happen, electrically.

If you have to start the truck to move it somewhere, try smacking the starter with a hammer when it's in this 'jammed' condition. This worked for my 7.3 PowerStroke and bought me time (on vacation) until I could synch up with a dealer and get a new $tarter.

RayRay27
12-09-2016, 02:09 PM
Thanks for the insight :thumb:. Luckily my truck is parked in my garage and I don't have to move it.

RayRay27
12-16-2016, 11:49 AM
Well I purchased a new remanufactured starter from toyota. I know I know I could have just rebuilt the old one but it was way easier just to buy a new one and install it. Plus the new one is a 2.0 Kw and the old one was a 1.4 Kw. Thanks for everyone's help. The grinding noise stopped. Total time to replace was about an hour.

L43dean
12-16-2016, 03:09 PM
You did the right thing.

Hulk
12-29-2016, 12:06 PM
Any issue with fitting the longer starter in the truck?

RayRay27
12-29-2016, 12:30 PM
No not at all. There is plenty of room even if you went up to the 2.2Kw starter.

LARGEONE
01-01-2017, 05:20 PM
I believe they offered this "longer" starter in cold climates. I know mine came with one and I also have an extra ready to be rebuilt.

Edit: BTW....changing the starter is a GREAT time for a PHH change. So much easier with the starter out :)