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Mendocino
10-31-2009, 02:17 PM
I have a NIB Black Magic 165 that I am considering putting on my 40. The 40 has a Be Cool radiator and a home made shroud and fan on a fan clutch. At times the engine gets a little warm ~215* when I am doing 75 MPH on the way to Moab for example.

I did some searching this morning and found very mixed results on this fan and its ability to cool. I know the Taurus option is less expensive and probably works better but I have the flex a lite fan sitting here. Further, the fan is billed as a replacement for 4 & 6 cyl. Land Cruisers, not my 355 HP V8. I did measure the shroud dimensions and the BM 165 should cover the radiator OK.

So, If I put this fan on will I really see a decrease in temperature?:confused:

rover67
10-31-2009, 02:47 PM
I have the taurus setup on the 60 and it has been fine except for the fact that it is cheap autozone and it fell apart once (motor came unbolted from the shroud). Other than that it has done OK. I am considering switching to a mechanical setup on the truck and I guess you make me think about it again. I wonder why yours isn't cooling? Is the fan clutch healthy?

I have no idea how much the black magic fan moves (didn't look it up) but my taurus setup barely keeps up with my motor. BIG hills, towing, 75-80mph and hot temps outside make the temp start to rise a little bit, but never enough for me to shut it down. I'd say anything less would be stretching it.

I don't know how the motors/setups differ, but i've always looked at cooling capacity requirements based on HP and it sounds like your motor is a bit stronger. Mines a 5.3 vortec with headers and some mild head work.

edit: forgot to mention that mine has a factory replacment radiator, nothing fancy.

Mendocino
10-31-2009, 03:34 PM
I have the taurus setup on the 60 and it has been fine except for the fact that it is cheap autozone and it fell apart once (motor came unbolted from the shroud). Other than that it has done OK. I am considering switching to a mechanical setup on the truck and I guess you make me think about it again. I wonder why yours isn't cooling? Is the fan clutch healthy?

It seems healthy, there is resistance when I spin it with the engine off. Mechanically is does not seem to have a problem.

I have no idea how much the black magic fan moves (didn't look it up) but my taurus setup barely keeps up with my motor. BIG hills, towing, 75-80mph and hot temps outside make the temp start to rise a little bit, but never enough for me to shut it down. I'd say anything less would be stretching it.

The BM fan claims to move 2300 CFM.

I don't know how the motors/setups differ, but i've always looked at cooling capacity requirements based on HP and it sounds like your motor is a bit stronger. Mines a 5.3 vortec with headers and some mild head work.

The last time it got "hot" was on the way to Moab, I have been really into the throttle keeping the thing around 80 MPH (~2300 rpm :D) from GJ to right before the turn south towards Moab. The temp got above 215* and I pulled over. We stopped for about 10 minutes and it cooled off fine.

The other issue I have is that it runs pretty cool unless it getting worked hard (~150*). I currently have a 165* thermostat in is and will up that to a 185* tomorrow.

I would really like to find a cooling solution where it warms up quickly (I want max torque and HP right away:D); but sits at ~195* in the water jacket--always. I'm still doing lots of head scratching.:confused: Could I have a cavitation issues at sustained higher loads?

TIMZTOY
11-01-2009, 09:13 AM
I've never been a fan of the lower temp thermostats. Because expectually in yours and i's truck the coolent dosent have that much time to sit in the radiator and coool down because the thermostat opens To soon. Releasing the hot coolent from the motor into the radiator. Befor the radiator has time to adequately cool the hot collent befor moving back to the block. Thus at some point your coolent stays hot "driving 80" and never actually cools down. Because bit coolent is comming from you radiator at temps above 165 and your thermostat stays open.
I would reccomend a OEM 195 thermostat. And I bet all your cooling problems dissapeer and do your fan later. Or mount it onto your spare tire for more added thrust for passing ppl on the highway. Lol

FJBRADY
11-01-2009, 09:47 AM
Jeff,

I have had to slow down on the hwy, anything over 65-70 and my 40 gets hot. Granted I do not have a shroud so believe cavitation is my issue. My plan is a shroud before Moab.

Something I have noticed is that if I pull out the heater dealie on the dash the truck runs 10-15 degrees cooler keeping the temp below 200 on the highway. That may help you when you start to run a bit hot....I have heard pulling the heater dealie is an old 18 wheeler trick.

The other recommendation I can give and there will be a collective gasp in the group is to.......................SLOW DOWN :brick:

Mendocino
11-01-2009, 09:56 AM
Jeff,

I have had to slow down on the hwy, anything over 65-70 and my 40 gets hot. Granted I do not have a shroud so believe cavitation is my issue. My plan is a shroud before Moab.

Something I have noticed is that if I pull out the heater dealie on the dash the truck runs 10-15 degrees cooler keeping the temp below 200 on the highway. That may help you when you start to run a bit hot....I have heard pulling the heater dealie is an old 18 wheeler trick.

The other recommendation I can give and there will be a collective gasp in the group is to.......................SLOW DOWN :brick:

Slow down? I did slow down to 80!

ScaldedDog
11-01-2009, 10:09 AM
I had a 165 on my 4Runner for a long time, but didn't care for it. Its thermostat was hit-or-miss, and the fan wasn't strong enough to move air through all the obstacles in front of it. (e.g. AC, winch, bumper, etc.) I moved to a Taurus fan and have been much happier. I only have the 3.0 V6, so I'd think you'd be creating much more heat with that V8.

Mark

FJBRADY
11-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Slow down? I did slow down to 80!

I figured as much :D. I am kinda glad I don't have an auto in my 40 or I would have my foot in it all the time. I have an auto in the FJC and I drive it like I stole it!

TIMZTOY
11-01-2009, 11:42 AM
and I drive it like I stole it!

The only proper way to drive !:thumb:

Old40Dog
11-01-2009, 01:28 PM
I was having a similar overheating problem with my 292 cid inline 6 (granted not a 350) with T-350 auto and a cheap electric fan that only moved about 1850 CFM through the stock 40 radiator with a 180 thermostat. I went to the S-blade 160 model mainly for durability and that it moved 3,000 CFM. It was a bit more pricy than the BM165, but I had blown 4 of the blades off that cheap fan and did not want to do this job over again. The BM 165 is rated 2800 CFM on the Flex-a-lite website. The 40 now runs a constant 180, even when we went to Ouray via Monarch Pass, we were running hard up the mountain (pedal to the metal) and it only got to 190 in the last 1/2 mile. I do have an auto thermostat built into the fan unit and I like it for faster warm-ups and that it keeps running when I stop the engine to keep it cool. I can cruise on the interstate at 70mph (I'm not up to 85 mph :eek: even when I have a rear pinion) and the temp guage doesn't move above 180. I agree with Tim on trying the 195 thermostat first (cheap and easy) then move on to the fan if it's still running hot. I assume you have some kind of shroud on the current set-up. The good news for you if you go to the BM 165, you should free up a couple more horsepower to go even faster! Good luck!

Air Randy
11-01-2009, 04:14 PM
[QUOTE=FJBRADY;124222]Jeff,

I have had to slow down on the hwy, anything over 65-70 and my 40 gets hot. Granted I do not have a shroud so believe cavitation is my issue. My plan is a shroud before Moab. QUOTE]

Steve, the cavitation issue is separate from not having a fan shroud. Some of the V-8's have a water pump designed to move a lot of water at lower rpm's but the down side is they cavitate or generate an air bubble after the pump impellor. That significantly slows down the water flow and can eventually cause premature pump failure. From what I've read the cavitation usually only occurs above 3,000 rpm. You guys might want to see if you could fit a larger diameter pulley on your water pumps to lower the rpm there, that may reduce or eliminate the cavitation unless it's being cause by something else in the cooling system like a thermostat with a small opening.

TIMZTOY
11-01-2009, 04:21 PM
I highly doubt that cavatiation is the issue. Because most of the v8 swaps are the same drive train and computer set up that was in the orgionall chevy. So the motors arnt running much higher rpm's. All depends on gearing. When I'm doing 70mph in my 350 700r4 and 4.88 I'm only doing like 2,000 rpm to really be over 3,000 rpm's in a small block for substained time your problly stuck in a mud hole and you'll be risking other damage from oiling issues rather than over heating.

Mendocino
11-01-2009, 04:59 PM
I replaced the 160* thermostat with a 195* today and it now comes up to about 190* directly (Yeah!; I would hate to loose some HP and torque due to my engine being too cool;)). I need to go pull a big hill or do some sustained time at above 2300 RPM to see what effect the hotter thermostat has had.

To Randy's point on cavitation, with my over driven 700R4 I am at about 2300 RPMs with 4.11s at 80 mph. I spent some time looking at the shroud today and definitively think it could be designed more effectively to "funnel" more fan driven air across the radiator. I will check to see what Be Cool suggests for their radiators.