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View Full Version : was no more 80 rims... turned into design RTT support for a topper


nakman
10-31-2009, 10:25 PM
I went back to stock rims on the Taco. Main reason is my Tundra calipers are just way bigger than the stock ones, and the clearance was just too tight for my liking. The stock rims provide more clearance for some reason :confused: also the 7" rim seems to sit better with my 10" wide tires, the 8" rim and 10" tire just didn't provide much of a bulge, if you know what I mean..


Anyway here's a before and after pic, for the sake of chat. Not sure if I want to paint these stockers black, or leave them alone, I'm going to leave them alone for a while I kind of like the change, though others in the house have now come out to say they actually prefer black rims.. :rolleyes:

what do you think? http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/smileys/popcorn_and_beer.gif

nakman
10-31-2009, 10:27 PM
And notice how much snow melted between the before and after... today I learned that Saturday afternoon after a big snow is probably not the best time to drop in on Discount Tire... 3 hour turnaroud time :doh:



edit: oh and yes, the 80 rims are available. http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11247 :)

farnhamstj
10-31-2009, 10:29 PM
I like the taco rims silver.

wesintl
10-31-2009, 10:36 PM
for some reason it looks better to me too

Romer
10-31-2009, 10:39 PM
I would leave them silver as well

nakman
10-31-2009, 10:51 PM
I like the silver too, thanks guys. we'll see how it looks once I finally ditch that chrome front bumper.. ;)

Corbet
10-31-2009, 10:54 PM
silver

DaveInDenver
11-01-2009, 07:13 AM
Much better with stock silver rims.

Red_Chili
11-01-2009, 08:04 AM
Silver.

Notice how much the snow melted even in the foothills!

MDH33
11-01-2009, 08:43 AM
I like the silver with the stock bumpers, but if you put an ARB or soemthing else on there, I think the all stealth black rims would look better.

What kind of topper, Tim? ARE?? I just called Suburban toppers about trading my current top towards an ARE CX with a rack and windoors. :thumb:

TIMZTOY
11-01-2009, 09:19 AM
Silver

Bikeman
11-01-2009, 09:55 AM
I liked the black 80 wheels better. I was going to comment on them at the Spooky but forgot. Shoot the Taco rims satin black or dark charcoal.

corsair23
11-01-2009, 10:58 AM
I like the contrast with the silver :thumb:

Looks great Tim :)

nakman
11-01-2009, 11:12 AM
Martin it's an ARE, got it off CL in May. Bought the windoor separate from suburban toppers though so far just the driver's side, $250 each for those. how much weight can you put on a rack? I want to do a RTT, and have a design for one that isn't supported by the topper, more like one of those lumber things. I almost squished a fiberglass topper on our last taco, bringing some deck lumber home from the depot...

Mike I like your black rims on your 80 a lot.. have really thought of doing that on my 80 too. Still not sure what's best on the Taco here, will let it ride with silver for a while. and yeah we'll see how it all looks when I get a different bumper on there.

MDH33
11-01-2009, 05:27 PM
Martin it's an ARE, got it off CL in May. Bought the windoor separate from suburban toppers though so far just the driver's side, $250 each for those. how much weight can you put on a rack? I want to do a RTT, and have a design for one that isn't supported by the topper, more like one of those lumber things. I almost squished a fiberglass topper on our last taco, bringing some deck lumber home from the depot...

Mike I like your black rims on your 80 a lot.. have really thought of doing that on my 80 too. Still not sure what's best on the Taco here, will let it ride with silver for a while. and yeah we'll see how it all looks when I get a different bumper on there.

The ARE toppers are supposed to have a high weight capacity and several people on ExPo have been running them with RTT's. I was asking Kurt from Cruiser Outfitters about it and he concurred. There is a big difference in stationary vs moving load, so a topper that can take a 200Lb moving load will be plenty strong to hold a tent and couple of people while parked. I'm going to get there "track system" which will let me add as many Yakima load bars as I see fit (3). I'll let you know how it works. :thumb:

Also, when I called suburban topper this week, they quoted me $110 per side for the windoors.

nakman
11-01-2009, 08:11 PM
The ARE toppers are supposed to have a high weight capacity and several people on ExPo have been running them with RTT's. I was asking Kurt from Cruiser Outfitters about it and he concurred. There is a big difference in stationary vs moving load, so a topper that can take a 200Lb moving load will be plenty strong to hold a tent and couple of people while parked. I'm going to get there "track system" which will let me add as many Yakima load bars as I see fit (3). I'll let you know how it works. :thumb:

Also, when I called suburban topper this week, they quoted me $110 per side for the windoors.

Seriously? I would be psyched to skip the whole rack thing and just do Yakima bars.. I have bought those tracks before from Rocky Mounts in Boulder. And I think I've got enough towers & bars around.. is that a windoor price because you're buying a new topper and you just choose that window as an upgrade? That would make sense, but both times I've bought a replacement after the fact it was more like $250. I do still want a DS...


I'll do some expo searching.. will bring the truck on Wednesday. :beer:

rover67
11-01-2009, 09:50 PM
I liked the black wheels better, but that's just me. Allison makes fun of me because all I have is black spray paint and I still ask her what color I sould paint something.

I'm taking two sets of wheels to the powdercoaters this week....

They quoted me $35 a wheel...

I guess you'd have to dismount them again though.

Jacket
11-02-2009, 12:13 PM
I've seen a few running RTT's on a fiberglass shell - especially the smaller and lighter models. But you might see the sides of the shell flex, as well as the bedsides, over the long term. I'd prefer a steel rack myself, but realize that it $$.

I think that "HMR" on Expo has a Maggiolina mounted to his shell - that would be one example you could look into.

MDH33
11-02-2009, 12:38 PM
I've seen a few running RTT's on a fiberglass shell - especially the smaller and lighter models. But you might see the sides of the shell flex, as well as the bedsides, over the long term. I'd prefer a steel rack myself, but realize that it $$.

I think that "HMR" on Expo has a Maggiolina mounted to his shell - that would be one example you could look into.

A Maggiolina is a lot heavier than my ARB tent plus the tents that open "like a book" and have a ladder, distribute some of the weight off the top. I think my tent weighs less than 100Lb, so I'm not worried about it stressing the top. I thought about an external rack of some sort, but Kim :Princess: doesn't want it looking like a contractors rig. ;)

nakman
11-02-2009, 01:37 PM
I poked around Expedition Portal last night and found one guy who say his fiberglass cracking, another who said just a topper was causing the bed to spread. I've been working on an idea for an external frame that hopefully won't look like a contractor, but the dilemma is how to get it sturdy enough to not flex or move, yet keep it sleek enough to not just be a contractor ladder rack. The other downside to those is how far out they stick, when I had a 2wd Taco I had one and was always catching my hip on it. :mad:

My other thought is just scrap that idea, and instead do an internal support cage of some type-so you've got a couple bars below the rack rails, and some legs that run down to the wheel wells/truck bed? In that situation your topper isn't really doing anything other than acting like a fiberglass washer for your RTT support system, and keeping the load from swaying side to side.... but all the load is transferred down to the truck bed. I kind of like this idea better.

Red_Chili
11-02-2009, 02:32 PM
Make the tubing a little more robust and you have a roll cage too. For those times when you just slip off a mountain shelf road. :lmao:

Tch2fly
11-02-2009, 02:44 PM
My other thought is just scrap that idea, and instead do an internal support cage of some type-so you've got a couple bars below the rack rails, and some legs that run down to the wheel wells/truck bed? In that situation your topper isn't really doing anything other than acting like a fiberglass washer for your RTT support system, and keeping the load from swaying side to side.... but all the load is transferred down to the truck bed. I kind of like this idea better.

I swear an internal support system was available from some manufacturer. I thought it was Rhino-Rack but can't find it in their on-line catalog. I have a hard copy catalog at home and will check it tonight.

MDH33
11-02-2009, 02:47 PM
I poked around Expedition Portal last night and found one guy who say his fiberglass cracking, another who said just a topper was causing the bed to spread.

Were those ARE toppers? I found a lot of happy ARE/RTT users on there and none had issues. Plus I'm thinking that the metal 5 foot beds on our rigs would be more rigid than longer beds or composite beds on later model Tacos. so maybe the spreading is a non-issue.

At any rate, I'm going to try it and I'll let you know how it holds up. I was hoping to get the ARE and tent mounted up before our Arizona/Utah trip later this month, but I will have to special order the topper with all the features I want and they said 3 weeks.

Bikeman
11-02-2009, 03:11 PM
How about Yakima cross bars/towers on the DC roof and leave the topper alone? The no-drill Q-Towers have proven themselves on gutterless roofs for years.

MDH33
11-02-2009, 03:59 PM
How about Yakima cross bars/towers on the DC roof and leave the topper alone? The no-drill Q-Towers have proven themselves on gutterless roofs for years.

Might be worth a try. Do you have 3 pair with clips I can borrow?? :D

DaveInDenver
11-02-2009, 04:10 PM
You know, the internal skeleton idea, that is exactly how a WilderNest is built... There is a molded in steel frame that is pretty strong and does not flex much normally. In fact it only deflects about two inches when it must hold up the weight of a truck, so a few hundred lbs is no prob.

Tch2fly
11-02-2009, 05:26 PM
Here is what I had seen, the Rhino-Rack Ute & Canopy Rack System
15576

Link to brouchure (http://www.roofracksa.com.au/documents/rhino_ute_canopy_hardtop.pdf)


When I was looking I came across this (http://www.arb.com.au/products/arb-canopies-accessories/canopy-racks-canopy-bars/) from ARB.

I am sure you can come up with something more cost effective but at least it shows proof of concept:D

nakman
11-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Yes! that Rhino design, or the ARB one, that's what I'm talking about. Looks like the ARB one mounts to the side of the bed while the Rhino one goes all the way down? but the Rhino one just pokes through the topper with a big hole.. I think we can do better, but I like the approach..

edit: here's the thread where the guy mentions cracking, not sure if it's ARE though http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28567

DaveInDenver
11-02-2009, 09:59 PM
Seems like all you need is a rib that follows the contour of the inside of the shell that runs from bed rail to bed rail under each rack cross member. I'm seeing 3/4" tubing, a bender and welded plates on each end. Very much like a internal roll cage that fits snug under the shell. Tie the internal ribs to the topper ceiling and to the Yakima or Thule feet on the roof, with, I dunno, u-bolts or maybe tabs on the ribs. The fiberglass in a topper is pretty strong and the goal is just to minimize flex to keep it from cracking.

If it was me I would just mold in metal or wood reinforcement into the inside and ceiling of the fiberglass, but I could care less about appearance. You can see part of the 'Nest frame in this photo. There are 4 rectangular tubes, one at each corner, connected along the side with horizontal members over the windows. The whole thing is then covered in structural fiberglass.

http://wildernest.armbrusterweb.com/page4/page5/files/page5_1.jpg

nakman
11-02-2009, 10:11 PM
Yeah now you're talking Dave, bent 3/4" tubing with some feet would be sweet, heck I'd even settle for miter cut 1" square... the front legs would just rest on the wheel wells, the ones in back would tuck nicely between the windows on the way down.

DaveInDenver
11-02-2009, 10:26 PM
I'm not sure it would even have to sit on the wheel wells. Tying a rib to the bed rail with a bolt through a plate would achieve the reinforcement you're looking for. I'm not sure that the amount of force you're talking needs that much. OTOH, I guess when the kiddos get a little bigger and you end up with the biggest Eezi-Awn that could be a few hundred pounds up there. So maybe that is necessary. It could be pretty simple if aesthetics be damned. A big ol' square hoop bolted to the floor and the ceiling...

MDH33
11-03-2009, 08:32 AM
here's the thread where the guy mentions cracking, not sure if it's ARE though http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28567

He got stress fractures with 100Lbs of gear and a rack on his topper ...While doing the Rubicon... ! I'm not going to worry about it since my rig will never see anything as hairy as the Rubicon. ;)

Caribou Sandstorm
11-03-2009, 09:31 AM
I have the same rim/caliper concern you did. I think the narrow rims make the tire stand up taller and add to the clearence. I don't have proof other then the way it looked before and after I went to wider rims.

I am considering returning mine to Discount..they are going to hate me....Maybe they will let me just trade the rims for new tires...

nakman
11-03-2009, 11:29 AM
He got stress fractures with 100Lbs of gear and a rack on his topper ...While doing the Rubicon... ! I'm not going to worry about it since my rig will never see anything as hairy as the Rubicon. ;)

I don't see the difference. Rubicon is a long bumpy road done at extremely low speeds... the suspension gets a workout, the frame flexes a little, does the bed even move? How much flex would the topper see then? You'll be in just as bumpy situations driving Colorado fire roads and mountain passes. Smacking the topper into roots and rocks on tight corners is optional.. :D

DaveInDenver
11-03-2009, 12:12 PM
the suspension gets a workout, the frame flexes a little, does the bed even move? How much flex would the topper see then?
Our 3 days on the Rubicon put as much wear and tear on my WilderNest as a year or two of regular duty, forgetting the major tree-topper mistake. My 'Nest had a lot more little fractures in the gel coat (this happens normally, so I do gel coat clean up occasionally) after the Rubicon and my bed developed a couple of new cracks and the bed walls splayed out noticeably more after the trip. Martin is right on that rock crawling does cause more fiberglass stress than regular trips. The bed on your pickup flexes a heckuva lot more than the body or cab. Watch it in your rear view with wheeling it, as the frame twists the bed twists up a lot. Also anytime the rear bumper or sliders impacts it sends shock up through the truck and vibration and impacts are not good on fiberglass. If the suspension is the only part working (i.e. minimal back bumper impacts in particular) all that is a lot of a factor on the fiberglass.

Caribou Sandstorm
11-03-2009, 12:32 PM
I have an RTT and I love it but I think for hard wheeling events, it will stay in the garage or on a trailer..if that ever happens.

The weight is a factor in tippy situations, stress aside on whatever you are mounting it on, the weight will play a role in how your rig handles in tippy areas..

So I guess what I am saying is you might want to really, really be convinced you will want an RTT that bad before you pull the trigger..

nakman
11-03-2009, 02:14 PM
Chris I've already got the RTT, so does Martin.. so the decision to get one is kind of moot. For him it's using it again for the 101th time, while for me it's trying to find a way to use it the first time. My 80 is just too impractical for it, IMO... one it's so high it's tough to lift and install the thing, also no way I could drive into the garage... and the ladder is too short so I'd have to buy an extension.. and oh yeah the weight on top (see the November RS calendar picture for what that can feel like). http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11249

Now the Taco OTOH is low enough that I am pretty sure I can still get in the garage with the RTT on, and that IMO is significant. I have used the "drive in with a coke bottle on the roof" method of testing, with good results. Also it doesn't flex as much as the coil sprung 80, and has a longer wheel base, both of which make the higher weight more manageable. It's already as high as it's going to be, for bigger trails I'll take the 80.



So if I piece the arguments above together, we'll see cracking on an unsupported topper with RTT after the Rubicon, or we'll see cracking after a year or two of "normal" duty? Not sure why either one is acceptable, and I'm still leaning towards the internal cage. when you flip up that windoor there's only like 3" of material in the corner (see picture above with the duct tape), and I just don't know enough about fiberglass to trust it that much, seems really weak to me, just a little more than cosmetic IMO.

Caribou Sandstorm
11-03-2009, 02:21 PM
So you bought the TACO to be able to use your RTT??? You are a man after my own heart...I know I am in the right club.....jk

I have an extension if you ever need to borrow it. Not sure if it will work with your style RTT, but it is worth a try if you needed it..

nakman
11-03-2009, 02:36 PM
Hey I've also got an FJ40 tailgate in the back yard, have moved it twice now. Yes one day I'll find a way to use it.. :lmao:


But I got one of the first generation cheapo Mombassa's.. later got the upgraded aluminum ladder, but don't have it installed.

MDH33
11-03-2009, 02:59 PM
Sorry for the thread hijack. :hill:

I totally see your point, Tim, and do not disagree that adding some kind of internal support system would be better. But, in the spirit of keeping it simple and being cheap, I'm still going to try it on just the fiberglass top first and see how it goes.

Plus, I seen it on the inter-net, it must be OK! :D

http://www.autohomeus.com/gallery/photos/toyota/meAirlandL.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3558/3332009650_1cc155c7ee.jpg

http://wileyp.smugmug.com/photos/282310055_hSnvc-M.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/702360249_qQwSM-S.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2448/3693285204_d622696832.jpg

http://www.ramdough.com/Taco/Roof%20Rack%20Install/0196600-R1-038-17A.jpg

Bikeman
11-03-2009, 03:53 PM
Chris I've already got the RTT, so does Martin.. so the decision to get one is kind of moot. For him it's using it again for the 101th time, while for me it's trying to find a way to use it the first time. My 80 is just too impractical for it, IMO... one it's so high it's tough to lift and install the thing, also no way I could drive into the garage... and the ladder is too short so I'd have to buy an extension.. and oh yeah the weight on top (see the November RS calendar picture for what that can feel like). http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11249

Now the Taco OTOH is low enough that I am pretty sure I can still get in the garage with the RTT on, and that IMO is significant. I have used the "drive in with a coke bottle on the roof" method of testing, with good results. Also it doesn't flex as much as the coil sprung 80, and has a longer wheel base, both of which make the higher weight more manageable. It's already as high as it's going to be, for bigger trails I'll take the 80.

I am in the same boat, basically. I have the 150 lb. Eezi Awn 1600 (bigger than queen size bed) with nothing to put it on. My cruiser is too high (6" lift) to put it on top for all the reasons you stated. Prob. is, you have the truck already to mount it on, and I don't!

I say go with the load bars on the cab and forget about eventually ruining your topper. You'll spend as much for the topper reinforcements as you will scrounging up load bars, towers, and Q-clips.

nakman
11-03-2009, 04:04 PM
I am in the same boat, basically. I have the 150 lb. Eezi Awn 1600 (bigger than queen size bed) with nothing to put it on. My cruiser is too high (6" lift) to put it on top for all the reasons you stated. Prob. is, you have the truck already to mount it on, and I don't!

I say go with the load bars on the cab and forget about eventually ruining your topper. You'll spend as much for the topper reinforcements as you will scrounging up load bars, towers, and Q-clips.

Thought about that, but the RTT would stick out in front like a sun visor. Not that it's aerodynamic at all further towards the back, but I at least want some type of ramp to reduce the drag. I ultimately like that red one Martin put up, but with the basket over the cab like that red Hilux that's all ARB'd out.. .

edit: also want the Marlin bumper, and the snorkel, and the sunroof... :o

MDH33
11-03-2009, 04:26 PM
To further hijack Tim's thread:
:)
About the same price as a nicely set up ARE topper, rack and top-of-the line-RTT.

Flip Pac:

http://martyharp.smugmug.com/Other/Camper/IMG9099/699680702_5oQ6s-M.jpg

http://martyharp.smugmug.com/Other/Camper/IMG9090/699669312_Jh9zo-M.jpg

nakman
11-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Dude there's no hijackin, I'll just keep changing the thread title to suit. Yeah you should get a flip pac.. :)

MDH33
11-03-2009, 04:35 PM
I ultimately like that red one Martin put up, but with the basket over the cab like that red Hilux that's all ARB'd out.. .

edit: also want the Marlin bumper, and the snorkel, and the sunroof... :o

yeah, that one is set up nicely.

AllPro (http://www.allprooffroad.com/images/stories/Tacoma/TrailArmor/9504bumperrear.jpg) bumper, I think.

Dude there's no hijackin, I'll just keep changing the thread title to suit. Yeah you should get a flip pac.. :)

Very Tempting.

nakman
11-03-2009, 04:50 PM
[quote=MDH33;124501]yeah, that one is set up nicely.

AllPro (http://www.allprooffroad.com/images/stories/Tacoma/TrailArmor/9504bumperrear.jpg) bumper, I think.

Oh you're right, Marlin's stick up a little higher on the side http://www.marlincrawler.com/armor/rear-bumper/tacoma-rear-bumper

nakman
11-04-2009, 09:35 AM
slight turn of events, but here's a guy looking for a Wildernest or Flip Pac.. http://denver.craigslist.org/wan/1450741226.html

Dave don't you have 2 or 3 extra nests laying around? :)

Caribou Sandstorm
11-04-2009, 09:56 AM
What about something like Matt's (Jacket) soft top but the frame under neath is large tubular type and will hold the RTT weight?? I guess not as secure as the fiberglas tops...

you guys have probably already discussed..I will just sit down now and be quiet...

Hey Martin, did that picture with the surfboards say where that surf spot was??

MDH33
11-04-2009, 10:05 AM
What about something like Matt's (Jacket) soft top but the frame under neath is large tubular type and will hold the RTT weight?? I guess not as secure as the fiberglas tops...

you guys have probably already discussed..I will just sit down now and be quiet...

Hey Martin, did that picture with the surfboards say where that surf spot was??

Surf spot was somewhere in Baja.

Regarding the CanBack soft tops that can hold a RTT, I like them a lot but everything I've read about their customer service and wait times to get the tops turned me off. I also looked at a Tacoma that had one installed, and the material had shrunk so much that it no longer closed on the sides. Plus, like you mentioned, the security of the fiberglass top is a big benefit when you have all your gear back there.

farnhamstj
11-04-2009, 10:47 AM
nice

nakman
11-04-2009, 10:51 AM
Yes I like the added security of a real topper that locks, but that's not the real reason. Big point for me is the ease of access a real topper provides- it's super easy to flip up a window to grab something, you can even do it with one hand while the other holds a kid. But it's a real pain in the butt to unzip, unsnap, or pull something out of a channel, etc.. and even harder to close it back up. I really dislike soft tops for that reason, and any time I've had one found myself using it less because of it, or going around it (like I used to load the dog, boy, groceries, etc. in over the front seat of the 40 instead of undoing the back because the back was such a pain to undo).

Jacket
11-04-2009, 01:47 PM
The zippers don't bother me, but security when traveling has been an issue, which is why I started shopping for a hard shell. Not sure I'll get it this year, but it's still on the radar.

That said, the soft top advantages are similar to those with a 40: very easy to remove or fold down to enjoy the benefits of a topless rig/bed.

nakman
11-08-2009, 05:29 PM
think you could find a place on the frame in back to bolt a pair of these? http://denver.craigslist.org/for/1427374100.html One of the main complaints about RTT life is the whole truck's a rockin, don't come a knockin thing.. these would be pretty cool don't ya think? :hill: http://denver.craigslist.org/for/1427374100.html

MDH33
11-24-2009, 03:31 PM
After using our double cab for camping all week, I've determined we need a taller topper. I had gear stacked to the ceiling and it made loading/unloading at camp a chore. I also could not fully open my Engel 45 fridge all the way, which made retrieving :beer: tricky. Looking at the ARE website, it looks like the MX topper would be a good choice. It might be better for supporting the RTT on a rack since it has a lot more fiberglass on the pillars and around the windows. Glad I had a shake down with the current low topper before I ordered the new one. :)

Something like this bolted to the side of the taller topper would keep the load bars low and distribute weight:


http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-17131263593118_2078_24330914

nakman
11-24-2009, 11:00 PM
Those little bolt-on rain gutters are the worst option, IMO. the rails that bolt to the top can at least spread the load a little, but those little bolt-on gutters are going to put everything onto those two little holes you drilled in the fiberglass. I have had those before, and they cracked the topper, though by the PO so I don't know for sure what he put up there. they just seemed really weak, that's all.

As for topper height, yes having the taller one is nice, particularly since it's easier to sit up in back. My 2wd taco had one, and I liked it a lot. But I think when you get your new topper with windoors you'll find you're crawling in the back a lot less often, so it won't be as big of an issue.

I'm thinking of starting with a simple outside rack system like this one http://www.realtruck.com/kargo_master_econo_camper_shell_ladder_truck_rack/R141911P1C1T.html# then cut off what I don't want, add to it as I see fit, try to get it as low as possible. I will have fun making my own custom elbow brackets, etc.
http://www.realtruck.com/images/products/1911/30060_econo_truck_ks_on_trk.jpg

Corbet
11-25-2009, 08:07 AM
I was just going to suggest a ladder rack of some sort. Then all your RRT weight would be transferred to the bed bypassing the topper.

MDH33
11-25-2009, 08:51 AM
I think it will be hard to find a ladder rack that will fit a double cab Taco and allow the windoors to open. Plus I still have the stipulation that it cannot look like a contractor truck.

I was thinking that the false raingutter mount with the 4 bolts would be ok if I use 6 total and three load bars if I use a big backing plate when I bolt them on. The rails on top will make the rack sit even higher, and if I go with the rails and 3 bars, it's going to cost ~$450 vs $120 for the plates since I already have the raingutter towers and bars.

We'll see what happens. :)

MDH33
11-25-2009, 10:52 AM
Came across this website for a guy building a similar rig. He used the interior supports for the tent like Tim and Dave were talking about. He's going to design a deck/storage system in the bed using the interior supports (aluminum). Intriguing idea. :cool:

http://www.ramdough.com/Mods.htm

nakman
11-25-2009, 11:15 AM
Came across this website for a guy building a similar rig. He used the interior supports for the tent like Tim and Dave were talking about. He's going to design a deck/storage system in the bed using the interior supports (aluminum). Intriguing idea. :cool:

http://www.ramdough.com/Mods.htm

Wow, cool! I need to meet that guy.. yes that's a lot like what I was thinking a couple pages ago.. dang now I'm thinking of reversing directions again. :rolleyes:

One thing I struggle with on the interior supports is how much room does that take up- once you get the fridge on one side, how much room does that leave you for a drawer?

MDH33
11-25-2009, 11:24 AM
Wow, cool! I need to meet that guy.. yes that's a lot like what I was thinking a couple pages ago.. dang now I'm thinking of reversing directions again. :rolleyes:

One thing I struggle with on the interior supports is how much room does that take up- once you get the fridge on one side, how much room does that leave you for a drawer?

His supports going straight down do take up some room, but you're idea of forming them closer to the contours of the topper would address that I think, but would require some more material. I was thinking that he could have built up a platform first that the drawer and fridge would be under/in, then run the supports up.

Yep, fun to brainstorm, and even more fun to design/build it. :thumb:

nakman
12-08-2009, 11:54 PM
Ok here's what' I'm thinking tonight- we make some little tapered feet that will support some 1" square tubing, then bolt those through the topper. Do two or three sets of these, probably three.

Just need to figure out how to then mate that with the RTT, my thought there is drill some somewhat permanent U-bolts through the outer frame of the RTT then just clamp it to the ends of these square bars, outboard of the feet. Inside, we mate more square tubing to the same through bolts, then tie those down to the floor/wheel wells somehow.

Take the RTT off, and you're left with a rack that will do basic Home Depot duties.. the base could also be built upwards and sideways using custom elbows, etc. for a more expedition rack, if desired.

Here's a picture of a foot, with one of the square tubes installed. Thoughts?

DaveInDenver
12-09-2009, 07:29 AM
Good idea. You know you're on the right track when Yakima and Thule both have similar towers that can be bolted straight to the roof. I would suggest instead of generic 1" square tube that you make it compatible with either of the existing roof bars so that you can take advantage of all the possible mounts for bikes and skis and stuff, too.

You might need to make it taller, a few inches off the roof. The first time you try and mount anything and realize that your bolts hit the roof... :doh: Also nothing 4 feet long and only 1" across is going to be perfectly rigid and having your junk bouncing off the topper roof will drive you batty.

I'll have to snap a photo sometime, but I have a permanent mount for Yakima cross bars on my WilderNest. Nothing more than a piece of aluminum flat stock bent into a 'U' with the plastic clamps bolted on. It's probably not enough for a RTT, but about as simple a way to mount cross bars as I've ever come up with.

nakman
12-09-2009, 09:09 AM
I didn't know that you could bolt the Yakima and Thule ones direct, I thought they all had to go into channels or something.. How about that, learned something.

For cross bars I have been thinking of using aluminum T-slot extrusions, in leu of standard Yakima and/or Thule.. thinking it'll give me just as many, if not more, mounting options for future accessories. http://www.automation4less.com/store/categories.asp?cat=1116

http://www.automation4less.com/store/prodimages/ltslot1010.jpg

MDH33
12-09-2009, 09:09 AM
Tim, when I was reading your description for the part before I saw the picture, I was envisioning it going on the inside, underneath where the rack would be (like Dave showed). This support would be just like what you designed, except it would be shaped to match the contour on the underside of the topper and would accept aluminum supports that could be removed when the tent isn't on the top.

Edit: Like the extruded aluminum supports, which could be customized for a shelf system in the bed too.

I was thinking the same thing as Dave: I already have a bunch of Yakima stuff, so whatever I put on the roof will likely be Yakima so I can use my other parts. Also, the bolts on the bottom of my RTT need 3-4 inches of clearance to attach.

:beer:

nakman
12-09-2009, 09:17 AM
I know what you're saying about bolt clearance.. but I've already written off the cheapo mounting system that came with my even more cheapo Mombossa RTT, so I'm scrapping it all- I'll do U-bolts that will only need an inch or so below the cross bars, which should be easy to do outside of the feet as the topper tapers away.

And yes a similar structure will be inside, and could also use the extrusions.

sleeoffroad
12-09-2009, 09:45 AM
Tim, stop by the shop when you have time. We have all the RhinoRack stuff on display. They have all the solutions that you might want.

http://www.rhinorack.com/rhino_custom_rhinocustom-ProductRange-CapTopperProductRange.aspx

RockRunner
12-09-2009, 09:48 AM
After using our double cab for camping all week, I've determined we need a taller topper. I had gear stacked to the ceiling and it made loading/unloading at camp a chore. I also could not fully open my Engel 45 fridge all the way, which made retrieving :beer: tricky. Looking at the ARE website, it looks like the MX topper would be a good choice. It might be better for supporting the RTT on a rack since it has a lot more fiberglass on the pillars and around the windows. Glad I had a shake down with the current low topper before I ordered the new one. :)

Something like this bolted to the side of the taller topper would keep the load bars low and distribute weight:


http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-17131263593118_2078_24330914


This is the setup I run on my Dodge truck. I have three bars going across my shell and it works great. The nice thing is that I can pull the racks of in minutes or the RTT with the racks if I have 3 or more friends there. With three bars across it is plenty strong nadno wear on the shell.

I would think about the ease of removal, as gas prices go the less on the roof the better.

Also I have the Can-Back on my 4Runner, I had the RTT mounted on their and the cab of the truck. I ran only two bars but really suggest three unless you have the really nice solid tent.

MDH33
12-09-2009, 10:04 AM
This is the setup I run on my Dodge truck. I have three bars going across my shell and it works great. The nice thing is that I can pull the racks of in minutes or the RTT with the racks if I have 3 or more friends there. With three bars across it is plenty strong nadno wear on the shell.

I would think about the ease of removal, as gas prices go the less on the roof the better.

Also I have the Can-Back on my 4Runner, I had the RTT mounted on their and the cab of the truck. I ran only two bars but really suggest three unless you have the really nice solid tent.

Good info, Tom. Thanks. Have you seen any cracking in your fiberglass topper from the weight of the RTT using that type of rack?

DaveInDenver
12-09-2009, 11:06 AM
Good info, Tom. Thanks. Have you seen any cracking in your fiberglass topper from the weight of the RTT using that type of rack?
That would be my concern with the Side Loaders, putting a lot of weight on those bolts in a funny way would try and crack the fiberglass. With a foot the bolts just keep the rack and stuff from flying off, the weight of sleeping Nakaris is spread on the foot. Yakima makes what's called a Top Loader for the 1A towers that I think would be a better choice. The reason people don't like them is that it makes the rack pretty tall.

nakman
12-09-2009, 12:15 PM
I agree, those isolated attachment points, particularly ones on the vertical sidewall of the topper, are a big liability. Particularly when there's a RTT up there shaking back and forth all day on the washboardy fire road. Forget about when you're sleeping, it's the constant shaking during driving that will ultimately wear that fiberglass, IMO. And why I think going with top mounted and internally supported is the way to roll.. :)

MDH33
12-09-2009, 12:35 PM
I agree, those isolated attachment points, particularly ones on the vertical sidewall of the topper, are a big liability. Particularly when there's a RTT up there shaking back and forth all day on the washboardy fire road. Forget about when you're sleeping, it's the constant shaking during driving that will ultimately wear that fiberglass, IMO. And why I think going with top mounted and internally supported is the way to roll.. :)



I think, ultimately, that is the way to go too but I know I won't be able to build the internal stuff the way I want before I'm likely to use the tent again. So, hopefully I can sneak in a few trips without an internal support system without wrecking the topper.

Looking forward to seeing what you design for inside. :thumb:

DaveInDenver
12-09-2009, 02:13 PM
I think, ultimately, that is the way to go too but I know I won't be able to build the internal stuff the way I want before I'm likely to use the tent again. So, hopefully I can sneak in a few trips without an internal support system without wrecking the topper.

Looking forward to seeing what you design for inside. :thumb:
I wouldn't worry. Use three cross bars and a tower with a wide foot and nothing bad will happen in the near future. WilderNests only start developing stress cracks after 20 years and even then it's nothing horrible. Nakman is belt and suspenders kinda fella, though. I like the internal bracing ultimately, but I don't see that it's critical. If there are only two cross bars, then I think it becomes more important quicker, that I could see.

Rezarf
12-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Silver is the new black... soon my white wagon wheels will be all the rage again. ;)

edit: I was still reading page one when I commented.

RockRunner
12-09-2009, 11:05 PM
No cracks in the shell yet, but I have a thick sidewall. Support on the inside would be nice and if I used it all the time I would think about it.

One way would be to fiberglass in a piece of solid wood on the inside along the entire length. Then on the outside a drilling a larger hole and installing a tube in it. Use a thicker, 1/8" maybe, rubber pad under the mounting bracket and use a nylon locking nut on the inside with whatever bolt you think will work best. I think by adding the wood you will be decreasing the pivot point and releasing some of the stress on the shell.

I know there are many other ways to do it but keeping weight down and price is what I look at usually. Oh and for the wood I would use a Hardwood and a tube with a washer attached to the end on the inside, bad explanation I know.

MDH33
12-09-2009, 11:27 PM
No cracks in the shell yet, but I have a thick sidewall. Support on the inside would be nice and if I used it all the time I would think about it.

One way would be to fiberglass in a piece of solid wood on the inside along the entire length. Then on the outside a drilling a larger hole and installing a tube in it. Use a thicker, 1/8" maybe, rubber pad under the mounting bracket and use a nylon locking nut on the inside with whatever bolt you think will work best. I think by adding the wood you will be decreasing the pivot point and releasing some of the stress on the shell.

I know there are many other ways to do it but keeping weight down and price is what I look at usually. Oh and for the wood I would use a Hardwood and a tube with a washer attached to the end on the inside, bad explanation I know.

That's a great explanation and sounds like it would work. I'm just still a little hesitant to consider all that drilling through a new topper. :o

nakman
12-11-2009, 10:26 PM
Well I ordered my cross bars.. bought some 1" x 1" extrusions from 80-20, using the 1001 style with square on all sides and a single channel. I estimate the spacing between the feet will be about 36" give or take.. so using their load calculator that should be less than a .125" deflection if there's 100 pounds up there evenly distributed. In fact the RTT will have its weight directly above the feet, since it is wider than the feet.

If someone were to stand right in the middle of one though, that deflection jumps up a little- so if I make the center of my cross bars 1/2" off the top of the topper, I should be good to go, right? I could also design a "center foot" that would rest under the middle of the cross bars the whole time, what do you think? How far does a Thule bar bend if you stand on one foot in the middle of one?

nakman
12-30-2009, 08:43 PM
Ok I got my first couple rounds of prototype roof rack feet, I think this is going to be ok. Here are your pictures:

nakman
12-30-2009, 08:51 PM
These aren't bolted up yet, just sitting there. I need enough to do three sets, that way I can adjust the span between them to insure the tops of all three remain as planar as possible.

My only design issue at this point is there's a little bit of an arc in the topper, so the back one is going to be twisted a little different from the front one, I had experimented with some tapered/drafted cuts then mirroring the pieces, but this whole thing got to be a lot more complicated than what I am thinkng is necessary, so I'm not going to worry about it for now.


And the span between them is shorter than I thought it would be for some reason.. so once I got them to where they looked about right, the span is 23.5". That leaves 9.5" outside of the support feet. How that calculates out is below, but what it means is a 200 pound load directly in the center, or pulling on the outside, is going to deflect these things less than 1/8".

Dave once I get the internal supports made this is going to be a belt, suspenders, and an elastic waist band all rolled into one. :D

nakman
12-30-2009, 08:59 PM
I do have a question though for the topper collective... there's a "thick section" in the center of the roof, I have assumed this to be a solid hunk of plywood? Can anyone confirm that? Or more importantly, tell me it's a bad idea to drill through it? Because that's the plan...

60wag
12-30-2009, 09:07 PM
Put some kind of a rubber pad between the topper and the plastic foot. This will spread the load more evenly over the foot even if it doesn't match the slope of the roof perfectly. If you could add some swivel in at least one axis, that'd help too. A ball joint would solve it.

nakman
12-30-2009, 09:15 PM
Put some kind of a rubber pad between the topper and the plastic foot. This will spread the load more evenly over the foot even if it doesn't match the slope of the roof perfectly. If you could add some swivel in at least one axis, that'd help too. A ball joint would solve it.

Yes I will definitely be doing a rubber pad of some sort.. in nothing else the stuff you put between the topper and the truck bed.

I will have to think about the swivel thing.. that could actually solve my twisty crossbar issue. But I may need to make the feet a little taller. Hmm.....

nakman
01-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Ok here's the next rev, with swivel. :)

nakman
01-18-2010, 11:15 PM
The swivel bases work much better, I can get the tops of the square extrusions all at the same plane now. I underestimated how much the back of the topper tapers off before, had to put a second extrusion on top of that one just to check its level- so I'm going to do another set of bases for the back that's 1" taller.

Other than that, I just need to source some type of rubber pad to go between them, and it's time to get the drill out. There's a fair amount of space between a 2x4 and the roof, I wouldn't want to go much lower but I think I'll go for it like this. As always, open to comments..

:beer:

nakman
01-31-2010, 11:28 AM
Ok phase I is complete. I've got a 4'x6' rack now, bolted to the topper. total weight, including hardware is approx. 30 pounds (using the bathroom scale subtractive method).

next up is working on some backing plates for the inside, then internal supports, but that can wait a bit, for now I've got the useful, low profile rack I was hoping for.

MDH33
01-31-2010, 12:20 PM
Wow, looks awesome. Can't wait to see what you build for the internal supports. The new rear bumper looks good too. :thumb::beer:

Mendocino
01-31-2010, 12:23 PM
Looks great Nak. BTW-the Taco really needs an HF antenna:D:yagi:

DaveInDenver
01-31-2010, 01:16 PM
total weight, including hardware is approx. 30 pounds (using the bathroom scale subtractive method).
I don't want to say you should lose some weight Nakman, but if you can weigh your truck with and without the roof rack on the bathroom scale, well...















Yeah, I know, it's measuring Nakman +/- roof rack.

Jacket
02-01-2010, 11:24 AM
You've got that Tacoma looking really nice in very short order! That first picture is calendar worthy.

I'm sure you already posted, but what RTT are you putting up on top?

nakman
02-01-2010, 11:36 AM
thanks, Matt. I got one of the first el cheapo Mombossa tents.. I've been storing it for about 4 years, have moved it twice, still have yet to sleep a night in it. That all changes this summer though, by golly..

RockRunner
02-01-2010, 01:56 PM
That looks great and at only 30#'s too. You do great work!

Rezarf
02-01-2010, 05:03 PM
Looks good Tim, a few more mods and I will have to make you an offer! ;)