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Mendocino
11-09-2009, 10:07 PM
I thought you guys and gals might like to see this. The PO of my camo 40 had a Birfield Eliminator kit installed. This is a HD axle made of 4340 with a Spicer u-joint instead of the birfield. I have read mixed reviews on this online, most of which are positive. They are no longer being sold and Longfields would be the system of choice these days. Anyway, I have a really bad inner axle seal leak and have pulled it apart to fix it. I thought you might enjoy having a look.:)

Uncle Ben
11-09-2009, 11:37 PM
I thought you guys and gals might like to see this. The PO of my camo 40 had a Birfield Eliminator kit installed. This is a HD axle made of 4340 with a Spicer u-joint instead of the birfield. I have read mixed reviews on this online, most of which are positive. They are no longer being sold and Longfields would be the system of choice these days. Anyway, I have a really bad inner axle seal leak and have pulled it apart to fix it. I thought you might enjoy having a look.:)

The biggest issue with the BEK is exactly what you have. Because there is no support for the inner axle at the outside of the housing the seal takes a beating. The South Dakota Boys were heavy supporters of the system as they were much stronger than any Birfield options at the time. Bobby changed that when he came on board with Cryoed Birfs. Later Bobby took it more steps as the next failure was the inner axles. Bobby and Pig started making Cro Mo inners and so the next failure was the inner star. Bobby reciprocated with 300M tool steel inner stars and cages which started blowing Birfs again at full turn. Now we have Super Birfs that use smaller balls solving that problem and of course CroMo hub drive rings. Now the weak link is third members. We will see the next upgrade being 32 or maybe 35 spline side gears, axles and birfs. Randys R&P did buy the rights to the BEK from Warn so you can get replacement parts through them.

TIMZTOY
11-09-2009, 11:48 PM
The biggest issue with the BEK is exactly what you have. Because there is no support for the inner axle at the outside of the housing the seal takes a beating. The South Dakota Boys were heavy supporters of the system as they were much stronger than any Birfield options at the time. Bobby changed that when he came on board with Cryoed Birfs. Later Bobby took it more steps as the next failure was the inner axles. Bobby and Pig started making Cro Mo inners and so the next failure was the inner star. Bobby reciprocated with 300M tool steel inner stars and cages which started blowing Birfs again at full turn. Now we have Super Birfs that use smaller balls solving that problem and of course CroMo hub drive rings. Now the weak link is third members. We will see the next upgrade being 32 or maybe 35 spline side gears, axles and birfs. Randys R&P did buy the rights to the BEK from Warn so you can get replacement parts through them.

good knolege to know kev. Thanks.

nakman
11-09-2009, 11:53 PM
That is neat to see.. so is that u-joint still swimmin' in grease like a normal birfield?

Uncle Ben
11-10-2009, 12:08 AM
That is neat to see.. so is that u-joint still swimmin' in grease like a normal birfield?

No....that is untill the inner seal gets deformed then yes....

Mendocino
11-10-2009, 07:53 AM
The biggest issue with the BEK is exactly what you have. Because there is no support for the inner axle at the outside of the housing the seal takes a beating. The South Dakota Boys were heavy supporters of the system as they were much stronger than any Birfield options at the time. Bobby changed that when he came on board with Cryoed Birfs. Later Bobby took it more steps as the next failure was the inner axles. Bobby and Pig started making Cro Mo inners and so the next failure was the inner star. Bobby reciprocated with 300M tool steel inner stars and cages which started blowing Birfs again at full turn. Now we have Super Birfs that use smaller balls solving that problem and of course CroMo hub drive rings. Now the weak link is third members. We will see the next upgrade being 32 or maybe 35 spline side gears, axles and birfs. Randys R&P did buy the rights to the BEK from Warn so you can get replacement parts through them.

Thanks UB!:bowdown: Is there a suggested replacement inner seal from Randy's R&P or someone else? The axles and u-joints are in really good shape and I hate to spend money on Longs just because the inner axle seal has a shortened lifespan.

Thanks again:thumb:

powderpig
11-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Marlin super seal could be a good choice. Seal lip ride in a different spot than stock, has a floating lip type(like the 80 series type), instead of a fixed lip. May prove to have a long time in the axle before it needs service.

FJBRADY
11-10-2009, 08:30 AM
The biggest issue with the BEK is exactly what you have. Because there is no support for the inner axle at the outside of the housing the seal takes a beating. The South Dakota Boys were heavy supporters of the system as they were much stronger than any Birfield options at the time. Bobby changed that when he came on board with Cryoed Birfs. Later Bobby took it more steps as the next failure was the inner axles. Bobby and Pig started making Cro Mo inners and so the next failure was the inner star. Bobby reciprocated with 300M tool steel inner stars and cages which started blowing Birfs again at full turn. Now we have Super Birfs that use smaller balls solving that problem and of course CroMo hub drive rings. Now the weak link is third members. We will see the next upgrade being 32 or maybe 35 spline side gears, axles and birfs. Randys R&P did buy the rights to the BEK from Warn so you can get replacement parts through them.

That just came off the top of your head? I am not worthy..................

Uncle Ben
11-10-2009, 09:31 AM
Thanks UB!:bowdown: Is there a suggested replacement inner seal from Randy's R&P or someone else? The axles and u-joints are in really good shape and I hate to spend money on Longs just because the inner axle seal has a shortened lifespan.

Thanks again:thumb:

I have no idea. I bet Randy's could answer that question easily. I know the SD Boys came up with solutions also as they thought the BEK were the Holy Grail.

nuclearlemon
11-10-2009, 10:06 AM
if you want spare shaft parts, poser's got some for sale on mud.

Mendocino
11-10-2009, 03:19 PM
So I called Randy's R&P and they said they don't touch the BEK for the LC anymore and were a dead end. I then called Marlin Crawler and talked to a guy named Vernon (?). He knew nothing of the BEK and when I asked what the ID of the seal was he basically refused to do it! I asked him to email it to me and he said that he deals with the phone first and (effectively) did not have time for email! I am totally shocked by this. The guys at Marlin are usually great and when I had difficulties with an FZJ80 master Cylinder Marlin called me himself to help me. He even gave me his cell phone number to call and tell him how things went. So I have to ask WT%&*^!!!:mad:

UB, who are the SD guys and how do I get a hold of them?:confused:

Uncle Ben
11-10-2009, 03:40 PM
So I called Randy's R&P and they said they don't touch the BEK for the LC anymore and were a dead end. I then called Marlin Crawler and talked to a guy named Vernon (?). He knew nothing of the BEK and when I asked what the ID of the seal was he basically refused to do it! I asked him to email it to me and he said that he deals with the phone first and (effectively) did not have time for email! I am totally shocked by this. The guys at Marlin are usually great and when I had difficulties with an FZJ80 master Cylinder Marlin called me himself to help me. He even gave me his cell phone number to call and tell him how things went. So I have to ask WT%&*^!!!:mad:

UB, who are the SD guys and how do I get a hold of them?:confused:

South Dakota and most of them either have stopped wheeling or moved into other areas of it. Marlin warrentees his seals so thats why they don't want to deal with it. Let me make a couple calls and see if I can get some references..... Ige mentioned a great source in Poser on Mud. Cramer has been doing this crap as long as I have and he also has many friends in SD and vicinity.

EDIT: I have a call in to the Minnesota Kid (Poser) so I'll get you some answers or at least some phone numbers....

Mendocino
11-10-2009, 03:48 PM
Thanks UB:bowdown::bowdown::):thumb:

Uncle Ben
11-10-2009, 05:47 PM
Jeff, I just had a chat with "'Sota Poser" :lmao: and he does have a few parts if you need them but for sealing "the un-sealable" is take some crocus cloth or very fine sand paper and polish the sealing surface well focusing on the spiral cut lip to get any edge smoothed out. The lip was purposely cut by the manufacturer to attempt to "pump" gear lube back towards the diff away from the knuckle. Steve strongly suggests using Marlins seals as they are the thickest and most flexible out there. The diameter is the same as stock on the seals. They and others have tried different solutions to attampt to support the inner axle but to much support causes a bind and too little is what you have now. Steve said the only true way to seal it is like D44's and other open knuckle axles utilize is a seal on the inside of the axle tube where the axle is supported by the carrier. Sounds like a call to Marlin is in order, just don't tell him it's for a BEK! Hope that helps!

Mendocino
11-10-2009, 05:57 PM
Jeff, I just had a chat with "'Sota Poser" :lmao: and he does have a few parts if you need them but for sealing "the un-sealable" is take some crocus cloth or very fine sand paper and polish the sealing surface well focusing on the spiral cut lip to get any edge smoothed out. The lip was purposely cut by the manufacturer to attempt to "pump" gear lube back towards the diff away from the knuckle. Steve strongly suggests using Marlins seals as they are the thickest and most flexible out there. The diameter is the same as stock on the seals. They and others have tried different solutions to attampt to support the inner axle but to much support causes a bind and too little is what you have now. Steve said the only true way to seal it is like D44's and other open knuckle axles utilize is a seal on the inside of the axle tube where the axle is supported by the carrier. Sounds like a call to Marlin is in order, just don't tell him it's for a BEK! Hope that helps!

Thanks UB!!!:thumb: The BEK came with a new hub (full floater) and it does have an axle seal for the inboard side of the outer shaft. It outboard side is "supported" by the hub gearing. Is this how you remember the BEK?

Anyway, I will take some closer pictures tonight and post them up. I am happy to hear that the axles are the same diameter (mine are 1.33" at the inner axle seal) and that I can use the Marlin seal. More to follow...