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Bruiser
12-13-2009, 09:41 PM
Can someone confirm for me what kind of steering box I have? I thought it was a mini-truck box and bought the one on the left to replace it (because my current one is leaking somewhere) but as you can see, they are not the same. The angle of the box is completely different. I looked through some of the posts online and it does not look like a 60 box. It does have the Toyota symbol so all I can figure is that it is a factor 40 power steering box.

By the way my 40 is a 78 so it would not have come with factory power steering.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_3g4tDNpSrlA/SyW_nvLy9RI/AAAAAAAAALU/V2VRUGgshIc/s640/IMG_4503.JPG

Thanks Guys,

Justin

Romer
12-13-2009, 09:53 PM
The angl;e of the one on the right looks like it could be a stock 40 box from a later cruiser. The one on the left looks like a mini-truck that you have to add a mounting bracket for to give it the angle.

Not sure. I did the Mini-truck install on my old 40 over four years ago

subzali
12-14-2009, 07:29 AM
The one on the right is a factory FJ40 power steering box. The one on the left is a minitruck box, you can get the bracket to put it at the same angle here:
http://www.jtoutfitters.com/power-steering-bracket-toyota-land-cruiser-fj40-fj45-p-2621.html?osCsid=kokrfb2r8hrcq9bb6u57t4ph15

what kind of pump do you have? can you post pictures of it and the bracketry that attach it to the engine?

Bruiser
12-14-2009, 07:30 AM
Thanks Ken, that is what I think as well. If that is the case it puts me at a crossroads. The current stock FJ40 power steering box I have is leaky and has a little play, which I would like to get fixed. So, I guess I have a couple of options.

1. Rebuild my current box or send it to someone to have it rebuilt. I hear the rebuild might be hairy so I could just try to reseal it myself but that would not solve the play problem.

2. Install a new bracket and convert to a minitruck power steering box.

3. Install a saginaw power steering box.

Cost is a factor but I should be able to offset some of the cost with the sale of the box I do not use.

Some details about my 40:
-Chevy 350 (with ram horn exhaust which is all that will fit because the current steering box is in the way.)
- 33 inch tires with no current plans to go above 35's.
- No lift but might get a 2-4 inch spring lift.

So, what would you all suggest?

RicardoJM
12-14-2009, 08:12 AM
If you go the mini-truck route, I would also suggest you look at the Dorry style bracket. It is $85 shipped, here on MUD (http://forum.ih8mud.com/merchandise-storefront/286176-bill-dorry-style-ps-conversion-bracket-kits.html).

In my research, the prevailing opinion on Saginaw Style/Mini-truck Style setups is that above 33" go with Saginaw style. Of course, going this route will require some mods ($$) on your truck.

It is a tough call Justin.


If you get the mini-truck bracket and bolt up your new box only to find that it leaks or is loose and needs to be rebuilt/replaced you are quickly approaching the $$ that a rebuild of your current steering box.

If you are sure that 35s are in your future, now would be a good time to put the $$ into the swap.

nanuk
12-14-2009, 08:15 AM
JMO, but I think option two would be the easiest for you. You would have to buy the bracket, BUT if you ever needed another box in out in the middle of nowhere, something tells me you would be able to find one from a mini. A late 40 box though????

Although I am an avid fan of the Saginaw box, there would be a little more involved to go that route for you. BUT, if it were me I would go that way as I have several spares and that is what most of my 40's have.

SteveH
12-14-2009, 11:55 AM
If cost is an issue, I'd install the minitruck setup and sell the FJ40 PS box on eBay for way too much money (to a purist). That box in any condition is like gold to some.

In my minitruck setup, my 33 x 9.5s rub on my drag link, so tire clearance will always be somewhat of an issue, especially if you go bigger.

I've had good luck even with high-mileage minitruck PS boxes - I've been able to adjust the play out of them and none have leaked or failed. Removing the pitman arm can be literally impossible (after you break an US-made OTC pitman arm puller you'll agree) but you can run the factory minitruck pitman arm with minitruck PS. It's a hair shorter than an FJ40 arm, but seems to make no difference in road feel or turns lock-to-lock.

Steve

rover67
12-14-2009, 12:05 PM
I'll trade ya the dorry style bracket I have sitting at home for that Stock late style 40 box you have that's leaking...

then you can bolt up the mini truck box you have tonight.

That's be a sweet deal. I'd love to have that stock box.

subzali
12-14-2009, 12:27 PM
Rezarf is running minitruck steering on his FJ40 with 35" MTRs. Says he has no problems...

Minitruck is definitely the easiest - how did you get your hands on the FJ40 box in the first place anyway? My recommendation is to replace the pedestal and run it. Yeah you may need to replace/rebuild the mini box eventually, but I bet it's cheaper and if it's not then I do know they are a lot more available than an FJ40 ps box.

I don't like the design of the stock FJ40 steering personally, so that's why I went FJ60 style. I would consider doing that swap again with a few differences or go Saginaw with nice brackets like Iron Pig Offroad sells if I was going to run 35" tires...
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/266541-64-fj40-getting-350-700r4-split-t-case-2.html

Bruiser
12-14-2009, 01:08 PM
Thanks for the info. Seems like most people are leaning toward minitruck or Saginaw. Anybody know what the cost of Saginaw would be? That is, the cost to have a shop do it and the cost for parts if I were to bribe some Rising Sun members to help me. :D

The one on the right is a factory FJ40 power steering box. The one on the left is a minitruck box, you can get the bracket to put it at the same angle here:
http://www.jtoutfitters.com/power-steering-bracket-toyota-land-cruiser-fj40-fj45-p-2621.html?osCsid=kokrfb2r8hrcq9bb6u57t4ph15

what kind of pump do you have? can you post pictures of it and the bracketry that attach it to the engine?

I will have to look at the pump when I get home. The bracketry is probably stock for a GM motor.

If cost is an issue, I'd install the minitruck setup and sell the FJ40 PS box on eBay for way too much money (to a purist). That box in any condition is like gold to some.

In my minitruck setup, my 33 x 9.5s rub on my drag link, so tire clearance will always be somewhat of an issue, especially if you go bigger.

I've had good luck even with high-mileage minitruck PS boxes - I've been able to adjust the play out of them and none have leaked or failed. Removing the pitman arm can be literally impossible (after you break an US-made OTC pitman arm puller you'll agree) but you can run the factory minitruck pitman arm with minitruck PS. It's a hair shorter than an FJ40 arm, but seems to make no difference in road feel or turns lock-to-lock. Steve

I have heard that a stock box holds it value to some which may be useful if I want to go to saginaw.

Rezarf is running minitruck steering on his FJ40 with 35" MTRs. Says he has no problems...

Minitruck is definitely the easiest - how did you get your hands on the FJ40 box in the first place anyway? My recommendation is to replace the pedestal and run it. Yeah you may need to replace/rebuild the mini box eventually, but I bet it's cheaper and if it's not then I do know they are a lot more available than an FJ40 ps box.

I don't like the design of the stock FJ40 steering personally, so that's why I went FJ60 style. I would consider doing that swap again with a few differences or go Saginaw with nice brackets like Iron Pig Offroad sells if I was going to run 35" tires...
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/266541-64-fj40-getting-350-700r4-split-t-case-2.html

It is good to know the minitruck box can handle 35's. I am not completely set on going to 35's yet. Besides not being sure of the value that would add for the types of trails I run, I would still need a lift and need to regear before I could do that. Oh, an I would need to buy a new house cause a 40 with a lift and 35's won't fit in my garage. That is on the wife's list to buy.

One of the previous owners installed the box at some point.

subzali
12-14-2009, 02:09 PM
the pump is probably a saginaw pump since it's on a V8 engine. I didn't know at first that you didn't have a F/2F in your truck.

On the Saginaw conversion, you'd have to do some research. My FJ60 conversion (link in my sig) took almost a month from start to finish, I have the total number of working hours recorded in the thread but can't remember them right now, and I didn't price out what it set me back but it wasn't cheap. A Saginaw conversion shouldn't cost as much as my FJ60 conversion, but you have to come up with a steering column/intermediate shaft arrangement, drill a hole in your front crossmember, weld on some plates/sleeve the frame etc. for bolting the box on, then figure out your draglink and other miscellaneous items:
http://www.root45.com/PowerSteering/

Bruiser
12-14-2009, 08:56 PM
Thanks Matt. When I first read your comments, I thought I might have another option using a 60 box. Then I read your post of the build and my head exploded.

I am leaning toward the minitruck box right now but I want to do a little more research. I took a look at my current setup and noticed some interesting things. I posted some pictures below but here is what I noticed.

First, the PO weld the bracket on. Not sure why he did not just use the holes that are right there but it is going to make life a little more complicated trying to take that off.

He also did some weird welding on the steering column. All I can assume is that a manual box is set forward a little more and the power box needed the extension. But that seems weird too.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_3g4tDNpSrlA/SycFUCsJM9I/AAAAAAAAALc/8tMAlNFNiWI/s640/IMG_4505.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_3g4tDNpSrlA/SycFUbPqZtI/AAAAAAAAALg/h1qzkNiOpGM/s640/IMG_4504.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_3g4tDNpSrlA/SycFURgGBbI/AAAAAAAAALk/4ysMVSnuzk0/s640/IMG_4509.JPG

Thanks for taking time to post advice.

JC

RicardoJM
12-15-2009, 07:09 AM
You ham box saginaw pump will work for all three options. The only issue that may crop up is thread size and pitch for the high pressure hose. As the high pressure hose you have worked for the FJ40 box, it will also work for the mini-truck box. :thumb:

Bummer on the bracket being welded, that is where the dorry (or JTO) bracket will need to go. I removed some plates that were welded to my frame using a grinder when I put in my front bumper (http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=6780&highlight=fj40+bumper+build). It took a long time and a couple of wheels. If you have welding skills, you might consider keeping the base welded in place; cut the existing bracket off at the base; cut the new bracket off at the base and then weld the new bracket on to the old base.

When AirRandy installed power steering using an FJ40 box, he had to shorten the steering shaft. His truck is a 74, looks like in your case they had to lengthen the steering shaft. I don't recall ever seeing a u-joint on the end of the stock steering shaft like yours has.

rover67
12-15-2009, 08:05 AM
yeah, I think the all 40's had rag joints.. At least even my later one does. My 60 has a universal joint, but it is bigger than the one on yours. I believe the 62's had the smaller u joints similar to what you have.

I have the bracket for the mini truck power steering box if you need it quickly, I won't be needing it for a little while so you could grab mine and replace it with another one you order later. That'd get you back on the road now at least.

Also I know at this point i'm probably bugging you about it so disregard if so but i've been looking for a stock 40 box. I also pm'ed ya about it. I was trying to keep my 40 OEM if possible and that's basically the last piece I need.

let me know about the bracket.

subzali
12-15-2009, 08:10 AM
A stock '78 FJ40 would normally have a rag joint on the end of the steering column, that will mate up to a rag joint on the manual steering box. It looks like the FJ40 power steering box has splines on the end of it, so the PO modified the FJ40 steering column to have a splined end. This can also be accomplished by using an FJ55 steering column. Look a little higher on your steering column and see if there was any other modification that he did.

Here's a picture of a 60 series u-joint in the steering column...
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0136.jpg

SteveH
12-15-2009, 08:53 AM
A buddy of mine put a factory PS box in a 1980 FJ40 that did not have PS from the factory.

It turns out that the steering shaft was 3/4" too long, and that (according to his research), FJ40s equipped with factory PS had a shorter steering shaft (and a longer section sticking out of the PS box). That might explain the welded on 'extender'

My buddy shimmed the entire steering column 3/4" up from the floor using a cleverly cut spacer made of plywood, painted black. This spacer soaked up the extra length of the column and it all lined up nicely after that.

Air Randy
12-15-2009, 10:49 AM
Thats OK until the plywood rots or cracks and you suddenly get a lot of slop in your steering :hill:

JTO sells the piece for $50 where you cut 1" off of your steering shaft and weld the new rag joint adaptor on. Super easy to do.

Unless you are intent on restoring your rig to OEM, lose the stock FJ40 gear. They work fine with smaller tires but can't handle much bigger tires especially in high traction areas like Moab. They won't break but you will feel like you have no PS. Even with my saginaw setup I keep my stock large steering wheel to make sure I can crank it in the rocks.

The mini-truck upgrade is only marginally better as far as performance with bigger tires. If thats not an issue then this is the least expensive way to go and easy to find replacements if it ever breaks. JTO sells the high pressure hose with metric & sae fittings to adapt the mini box to the saginaw pump.

Go to CCOT, MAF or JTO websites. They sell complete saginaw conversion kits. Pricier up front but very doable in a weekend if you have the right tools and assistance. You will have a setup that eliminates the FJ40 drag link and the potential death wobble issue. It's also much stronger in the rocks and can handle turning huge tires. In your case you've already got the right pump. Once you have it in it is even easier to find a replacement steering gear than a mini truck if ever required. But since these boxes came out of 3/4T trucks I doubt you'll ever break one.

Profitt's Cruisers gave me $400 credit for my stock 40 PS gear so they could use it on an FJ40 restoral. I'm not saying you'll get that much for yours but realize they are hard to come by. Post it up on MUD and you'll get top dollar and sell it real quick.