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View Full Version : Supercharger install questions (was Crank pulley bolt size) 80 series tech


Hulk
01-02-2010, 07:20 PM
Anyone know the crank pulley bolt size? It's bigger than my largest socket (28mm).

Romer
01-02-2010, 07:36 PM
32mm. I have one if you want to borrow

You might find this link helpful

http://george4wd.taskled.com/scharger.html

I also have the installation manual

You want to make sure that bolt gets torqued back to 305 lbs. Mine loosened up off road causzing my oil pressure to drop and power steering to not work so well.

I don't have a torque wrench that will do that though

Rock Dog
01-03-2010, 12:53 AM
Robbie has a Torque Wrench that will do it, and it is a big sucker... Sounds like Mr. Farr is getting ready to make this a "super charged" year :D:D

Hulk
01-04-2010, 11:18 AM
Got the crank bolt and pulley removed yesterday. I've removed all the various pieces and parts from the front of the engine, next up is the supercharger itself.

corsair23
01-04-2010, 11:46 AM
Got the crank bolt and pulley removed yesterday. I've removed all the various pieces and parts from the front of the engine, next up is the supercharger itself.

:bowdown:

Hulk
01-09-2010, 09:29 PM
OK, so I have the supercharger pretty much removed from the donor vehicle. Here are some pictures.

First pic: supercharger parts. There are more parts, but these are the sexy ones.

Second pic: the donor 80 now has more room under the hood.

Hulk
01-09-2010, 09:33 PM
My last item to remove is the plug where the stock brake booster nipple comes out of the intake manifold. I can't seem to get it out with an allen wrench, so I'll be heating it up with a MAPP gas torch here in a bit.

I need to get it our because I plan to install the stock intake from my truck back on the donor truck -- the engine runs great, and I'd like to keep it complete.

Hulk
01-09-2010, 09:41 PM
A few questions that have occurred to me as I'm working on this. I'm worried about the extra heat from the supercharger.

1. Cooling: I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to take my stock radiator out of the vehicle and have it professionally cleaned and serviced. I doubt it's been out since it was installed in 1996 (although it has fairly recent coolant in it -- about 2 years old).

Good idea? Waste of time?

2. What's it cost to get an aluminum radiator, and how much of a difference would that make in cooling?

3. How much of a difference does that JDM pusher fan make?

4. The only other ideas I know about for keeping things cool are:

a) snorkel
b) louvers (like treeroot).
c) reroute air through the front turn signal (like 60wag).

I'd probably be most interested in the louvers. How much of a difference do they make?

Any other good ideas for cooling?

Loki
01-09-2010, 09:57 PM
What I did for mine was just new radiator and change the fluid in the fan clutch to 10k cst. It seems to run cool enough, never really gets above 200-205 even when I'm pushing it hard up passes and such.

Though I have looked into the louvers, and I might still do that, they just look cool.

Romer
01-09-2010, 11:13 PM
I have a 94 style radiator in mine. It's OEM, cheaper than the 96-97 and someone told me it is superior in cooling to the stock one. I don't know how effective cleaning is. It might be fine.

I would go ahead and replace the thermostat if you haven't in a while

Doing the Blue Fan Clutch Mod really helps as well. I run around 180-190 deg all year running around town. I did not re-adjust the temp, just changed the fluid with a 50/50 mix of 6000 and 10000 CST. I have fluid left or you can just get it at the Remote Control Shops.

The additional pusher fan helps in really hot weather where you are not moving much and have the AC on or really working the motor towing up a mtn pass. The JDM fit in real easy, but there are others out there

The snorkel lowered the temp ofr the air at the intake about 25 deg (based on my OBD II tests) so cooler air and likely in faster flow will only help the SC

If you have advanced your timing, you will want to set it back to stock.

I also swapped the spark plugs. Part numbers are in the garage, but I believe Cdan said they were fro an MR2 and had a hotter temp.

I don't have the louvers, not sure if Mike addressed were the water would go yet. He picked the perfect location, but one of them is over a fuse box. Mike will have to update us on that.

I would recommend getting a seperate Temp and Boost gauge and installing them on the A pillar like I have.

Romer
01-09-2010, 11:16 PM
I also modified my Shroud and installed a 4runner blade and tosssed the one that came with the SC

http://forum.ih8mud.com/630365-post87.html

Romer
01-09-2010, 11:23 PM
Here are some write-ups on the Dual gauge install and where to tap the temp sensor

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/121529-dual-gauge-pod-install.html

I have an ISSPRO temp gauge and Autometer Vac/boost gauge 0-20PSI. That's different than the ones in the thread

Rock Dog
01-10-2010, 12:51 AM
Matt,
I also am running the older style radiator (same one that Convert is running). I was told the that the brass/Copper Radiator actually runs cooler than the aluminum.. I Believe it was Radiator Barn that i got it from (via the internet)... Had to get some additional foam from home depot to get a real good air seal.

- I also put on the JDM pusher fan (after seeing Treeroots). It can be wired up manually like Cdan has so it is only used when really hot, or it can be wired up like Uncle Ben so it stays on even after the truck is shut off if it is still hot.

- I changed to the new blue fan clutch and put in a mix of 6000 and 10,000 cst oil, as well as went to the Fan reccomended by Cdan. I believe it is a V6 truck Fan. This did require the fan shroud to be trimmed a bit, but with this setup you can really feel the air coming through the radiator. The Ring on the fan that came with it really seems to impede air movement through the radiator...

- i have the old Ringed fan that came on the supercharged rig when i got it, and you are welcome to it, but i find the new fan with the thicker oil to cool better.

- I never ran without a snorkel so cannot comment how that works, but really like the snorkel. Adds to the cool factor...

- I have been attempting to acquire another hood so i could also do some louvers.. that way i can always put the original hood back on if i don't like it.. I was over at ROOTS after he did the louvers, and felt the heat that was coming out of them, so i believe they work. I now a have an infrared temp gauge, so we could see if it lowered the temps on Roots rig.. just have never had a chance to talk him into the test yet....

I got all the fan parts from CDAN, and as always you are welcome to look at my rig. Just let me know and i will drop by to let you examine it :D

Cheers,
Neil.

powderpig
01-10-2010, 07:19 AM
The one biggest reason to replace is that it is hard to find a shop to remove and replace the top tank to rod out the radiator. While a flow test is good. It will not fully tell you if the radiator is function at %100. Around me I have not found a radiator shop to rod a plastic top tank radiator. On Mud, a couple of guys have found radiator shops that sell them new top and bottom tanks and all was fine for them.
Perfromance is no longer selling the Koyo brass and copper radiator at all. They went to a one row aluminum from a chinese manifacture. I do not believe that a one row will cut the amount of heat generated by the SC.
I have recently check for a cheap source for a KOYO 3 row Brass and copper, but have come up with close to 400 dollars shipped(for this price, I would use OEM). If you find a cheaper source, let me know. There was one source I called and e-mailed that did not returned my calls or e-mails, so I did not pursue them. I can search through my e-mails as one of my cilients pass on the info to me, but I did not book mrk the site.
PM me if you want this info.
Robbie

Hulk
01-10-2010, 11:59 AM
I have a 94 style radiator in mine. It's OEM, cheaper than the 96-97 and someone told me it is superior in cooling to the stock one. I don't know how effective cleaning is. It might be fine.

Where did you get the radiator? Toyota? Maybe I will call my buddies at Groove.

I also modified my Shroud and installed a 4runner blade and tosssed the one that came with the SC

http://forum.ih8mud.com/630365-post87.html

Thanks for this. I hadn't heard that there was an issue with the stock SC fan.

Matt,
I also am running the older style radiator (same one that Convert is running). I was told the that the brass/Copper Radiator actually runs cooler than the aluminum.. I Believe it was Radiator Barn that i got it from (via the internet)... Had to get some additional foam from home depot to get a real good air seal.

So you're running a non OEM radiator? Do you remember what you paid?

I also put on the JDM pusher fan (after seeing Treeroots). It can be wired up manually like Cdan has so it is only used when really hot, or it can be wired up like Uncle Ben so it stays on even after the truck is shut off if it is still hot.

Neil, where did you get the pusher fan from? Can it be ordered from Groove or CDan, or must it be purchased from someone in Japan (like Mot)?

The one biggest reason to replace is that it is hard to find a shop to remove and replace the top tank to rod out the radiator. While a flow test is good. It will not fully tell you if the radiator is function at %100. Around me I have not found a radiator shop to rod a plastic top tank radiator. On Mud, a couple of guys have found radiator shops that sell them new top and bottom tanks and all was fine for them.

OK, this is making more sense now. Maybe I will try these guys:
http://auroraradiator.com/
They say they do plastic parts.

Perfromance is no longer selling the Koyo brass and copper radiator at all. They went to a one row aluminum from a chinese manifacture. I do not believe that a one row will cut the amount of heat generated by the SC.

Koyo is the OEM manufacturer?

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

Hulk
01-10-2010, 12:19 PM
My wife took this with her iPhone. To get to many of the bolts, I literally had to sit in the engine compartment.

Romer
01-10-2010, 12:24 PM
I bought the 94 radiator from Cdan. It's a plug and play.

I bought the JDM pusher fan from Cdan. He stocks JDM parts, a lot of others don't. He also stocks the fuel sender for an aussie aux fuel tank if you ever need a replacement :D

Groove, Boulder or Stevenson might be able to get them as well, don't know for sure

Here is my install thread

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/160331-jdm-aux-fan-install-doesnt-get-easier.html

I have mine hooked up manually vs the auto turn on. That is my personal preference, others will tell you the auto is the only way to go.

Rock Dog
01-12-2010, 07:45 PM
I could not find a good deal on the Koyo or OEM Radiator, and i liked the idea of Brass/Copper for trail repair in a pinch (can be soldered). I asked Convert where he got his because it was not having the problems others were talking about with the metal ones (Christo had horror stories).... got it from Radiator Barn, and will look up the invoice stuff for you.

Yes i got the JDM fan, the newer Blue fan clutch, new v6 truck fan blades, and 10,000 cst oil from CDAN.. I stil have some of the oil (i believe an extra tube of 10,000.). if you give him a call he will also tell you about the needed trimming to the shroud, but it was not too bad a job.

You are welcome to check it out...

=====
So you're running a non OEM radiator? Do you remember what you paid?

Neil, where did you get the pusher fan from? Can it be ordered from Groove or CDan, or must it be purchased from someone in Japan (like Mot)?



OK, this is making more sense now. Maybe I will try these guys:
http://auroraradiator.com/

Hulk
01-18-2010, 01:35 AM
Progress report

The intake on my black 80 (Mayor McCheese to some) is off. Supercharger pulley has been added and crank pulley bolt torqued to 304 ft-lbs.

The worst part of the job so far has been removing the brake booster plug from the intake manifold of the donor vehicle (pictured above). You can see below how I finally got it out. Removing the piece from my daily driver 80 was cake.

I ended up having to buy a 90 degree turn tool for my drill to get out the plug.

Hulk
01-18-2010, 01:37 AM
I'm going to replace the fluid in the supercharger and modify the fan clutch as well. Fluids purchased.

I also purchased replacements for all the hoses. That was another $80. :rolleyes:

wesintl
01-18-2010, 08:52 AM
That's awesome matt!

The club should buy the other 80 and build a raffle vehicle when your done! Or just raffle it off in moab! :eek:

rover67
01-18-2010, 09:09 AM
Sweet Jesus that's a torque wrench!!

Good work on the broken vacuum nipple. I hate it how those things can take all day sometimes. Glad you got it out :)

corsair23
01-18-2010, 12:09 PM
:bowdown:

Hulk
03-01-2010, 12:41 AM
First, a quick update. Progress is being made. Recently:



Installed a brand new 93-94 radiator
New cooling system hoses
Blue fan clutch, complete with 10,000 CST silicone swap
New oil in the SC (I'll write this up, since it seems that no one else has)
Supercharger mostly installed
TPS and IAC harness -- I spent way too long attempting to extract these from the harness to reach the new location on the throttle body. After giving up for the night, I see on ih8mud that many people have extended these (either some of the wires or all of them). I will work on this more soon.

Hulk
03-01-2010, 12:48 AM
Question: should I just go buy a serpentine belt tool? I see one at Harbor Freight for $25. Link (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66344)

Looks like this might make the belt installation much easier.

Hulk
03-01-2010, 01:15 AM
Here is a little write up on the SC oil service. Ken, let me know if I should post this over on Mud.

Step 1: Get some oil from GM. This was not hard to get. I called the Chevy dealer on Colorado Blvd. and they had several tubes on the shelf.

17372

Step 2: Open the drain on your work bench. Note: this is not a service that can be performed with the SC installed in your vehicle.

17373

Step 3: Drain.

17374

Step 4: Fill with the same amount of oil. Not having anything to measure with, I simply used another jelly jar and filled it up with the same amount of new oil. I then put it back in the empty tube and used the handy squirt top to refill the SC. I gave it an extra squirt, figuring that it had lost a bit of fluid over the years.

The new oil is completely clear. I was surprised how dirty the old oil was.

It would be nice to know how much fluid was originally installed in the supercharger. Since I didn't know, I refilled to the same level that I extracted. I used about one and a half of the GM tubes to refill the SC.

17375

Step 5: Put the plug back in. It should be noted that the correct Allen wrench size is 3/16" -- it ain't metric.

17376

Romer
03-01-2010, 08:21 AM
Nice write-up Matt. I think that would be a good thread to post on Mud.

Nice progress

Uncle Ben
03-01-2010, 08:43 AM
The Eaton M80 & M90 Supercharger take 8oz of oil. Not to form a cloud over your day at the beach but dirty oil like you pulled out is caused from a worn coupler inside the nose cone. Easy to replace if you can find them. When the coupler wears it contaminates the oil which promotes gasket and seal failure as well as bearing wear. I think Christo has found a source for replacement couplers.

Hulk
03-01-2010, 10:35 AM
The Eaton M80 & M90 Supercharger take 8oz of oil. Not to form a cloud over your day at the beach but dirty oil like you pulled out is caused from a worn coupler inside the nose cone. Easy to replace if you can find them. When the coupler wears it contaminates the oil which promotes gasket and seal failure as well as bearing wear. I think Christo has found a source for replacement couplers.

So do you think I should pull it now? :( Probably easier than doing it later.

Uncle Ben
03-01-2010, 11:17 AM
So do you think I should pull it now? :( Probably easier than doing it later.

It would be worth looking at! The 2oz of oil missing went somewhere! Call Christo or Ben Slee (:p::lmao:) as they have rebuilt a couple of these units. I rebuilt a few while at Ford that were on the Taurus, basically the same M80/M90 cases but with long drive snouts. The couplers on the older ones are plastic coated cast aluminum where I have heard a couple folks reporting that the newer TRD ones use all plastic couplers. The reasoning behind the couplers is if the rotors seize the coupler shears and the vehicle is not rendered disabled. Unfortunately, the couplers are what fail. On the Ford cases it was usually the shaft and inner seal that went first due to contaminated oil causing the oil to be drawn into the charger. 2oz is not a lot so I suggest taking a little detour now and do some maintenance which could save you a complete premature rebuild of the charger in the not so distant future!

Uncle Ben
03-15-2010, 10:55 AM
Matt, what did you decide/find? Spotted this on E-bay... (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRD-Toyota-Landcruiser-FJ-Cruiser-Supercharger-Coupler_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414b84409bQQitemZ280439832731QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_1182)

Hulk
03-15-2010, 12:03 PM
Matt, what did you decide/find? Spotted this on E-bay... (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRD-Toyota-Landcruiser-FJ-Cruiser-Supercharger-Coupler_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414b84409bQQitemZ280439832731QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_1182)


That's a good find! I think I will email him and see if he'll just sell me the coupler by itself.

I decided to finish the install and run it for a bit before I do any more service. There is no particulate matter in the oil that I removed and there is no "play" when turning the pulley. It was running fine on the donor Cruiser.

I'm almost finished with the install, but I hurt my shoulder about a week ago and that's put a temporary hiatus on wrenching. My shoulder seems to be getting better, slowly. My wife is looking for a specialist doctor to go see about this. I've been in a lot of pain -- so much that I didn't go on the pre-run to Moab this last weekend. :(

wesintl
03-15-2010, 12:12 PM
bummer.. did you try http://www.shcdenver.com/Home/tabid/9435/Default.aspx


I'll be there today getting an mri on my knee :o

corsair23
03-15-2010, 01:26 PM
I'm almost finished with the install, but I hurt my shoulder about a week ago and that's put a temporary hiatus on wrenching. My shoulder seems to be getting better, slowly. My wife is looking for a specialist doctor to go see about this. I've been in a lot of pain -- so much that I didn't go on the pre-run to Moab this last weekend. :(

If you need some help wrapping stuff up, let me know...I don't have a lot of free time lately but we could probably pull a couple late night wrenching sessions :thumb: - And with you providing instructions on what needs to be done and supervising, how badly could I screw things up :confused: :lmao:

Hulk
03-20-2010, 07:02 PM
So my arm has slowly gotten better, so I decided to go back to the garage and make it worse again. I completely finished all the SC parts, vacuum and coolant hoses and wiring. Here's what I have left:


Install 3" hoses from the air cleaner assembly to the throttle body.
Reinstall battery box and battery.
Install serpentine belt and tighten up other belts.
Fill with coolant.
Run for a bit and add transmission fluid

Here's my problem: I cannot get the 3" hose to fit over the MAF sensor housing. The hose needs to stretch some to make it over the lip. I have the Landtank housing, which may make this harder -- dunno.

I put some dish soap on there to help make it slide on, but it still won't fit. It's like trying to put a bicycle tire on a wheel that's too big for the tire.

Any suggestions?

Uncle Ben
03-20-2010, 08:02 PM
So my arm has slowly gotten better, so I decided to go back to the garage and make it worse again. I completely finished all the SC parts, vacuum and coolant hoses and wiring. Here's what I have left:


Install 3" hoses from the air cleaner assembly to the throttle body.
Reinstall battery box and battery.
Install serpentine belt and tighten up other belts.
Fill with coolant.
Run for a bit and add transmission fluid

Here's my problem: I cannot get the 3" hose to fit over the MAF sensor housing. The hose needs to stretch some to make it over the lip. I have the Landtank housing, which may make this harder -- dunno.

I put some dish soap on there to help make it slide on, but it still won't fit. It's like trying to put a bicycle tire on a wheel that's too big for the tire.

Any suggestions?

Are you by chance using the wrong hose? I do not remember that being a challenge.

Romer
03-20-2010, 08:03 PM
Could be because it's cold. Warm up your oven to say 125F and put the hose in their for a bit

Mendocino
03-20-2010, 08:37 PM
So my arm has slowly gotten better, so I decided to go back to the garage and make it worse again. I completely finished all the SC parts, vacuum and coolant hoses and wiring. Here's what I have left:


Install 3" hoses from the air cleaner assembly to the throttle body.
Reinstall battery box and battery.
Install serpentine belt and tighten up other belts.
Fill with coolant.
Run for a bit and add transmission fluid

Here's my problem: I cannot get the 3" hose to fit over the MAF sensor housing. The hose needs to stretch some to make it over the lip. I have the Landtank housing, which may make this harder -- dunno.

I put some dish soap on there to help make it slide on, but it still won't fit. It's like trying to put a bicycle tire on a wheel that's too big for the tire.

Any suggestions?

What happened to having your friends come help?:)

Hulk
03-20-2010, 09:47 PM
Are you by chance using the wrong hose? I do not remember that being a challenge.

It's the right size hose (3"). You probably just know what you're doing.

Could be because it's cold. Warm up your oven to say 125F and put the hose in their for a bit

That's a good idea!

What happened to having your friends come help?:)

Just being prideful and stupid, I guess. My original goal was to do the whole thing myself. With the finish line in sight, I wanted to go the distance. :rolleyes:

wesintl
03-20-2010, 09:50 PM
that's good cause i'm not helping you with your hose :eek:

:D

bigbluefj
03-20-2010, 10:03 PM
that's good cause i'm not helping you with your hose :eek:

:D


:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Mendocino
03-20-2010, 11:06 PM
that's good cause i'm not helping you with your hose :eek:

:D

That's probably good because Hulk obviously thought it was bigger than it really was.:D

TIMZTOY
03-20-2010, 11:56 PM
maybe he needs a little petroleum jelly anyways.. :eek::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
when you cant get your tube in the hole ya use a little petrolem jelly.. :bolt: works wonders every time.. also works great on o-rings too

rover67
03-21-2010, 12:30 AM
Sounds like you are really really close, maybe tomorrow you can hear it run?

for hard to get on hoses I typically use windex since it drys up quickly... but the dish soap you are using should get it slippery enough...

don't know what to tell ya.

Hulk
03-21-2010, 06:46 PM
It works! Yipee!

Finished up this afternoon.

bigbluefj
03-21-2010, 06:49 PM
Good Job Matt how does it feel??

Kevin

Hulk
03-21-2010, 06:51 PM
Good Job Matt how does it feel??

Kevin

Definitely more powerful off the line. I've only put 3 miles on it so far.

Mendocino
03-21-2010, 07:22 PM
Definitely more powerful off the line. I've only put 3 miles on it so far.

Congratulations Matt!

Romer
03-21-2010, 08:09 PM
Excellent job Matt

Next you will want a snorkel to provide more air and cooler air :) and it's an idiot magnet.

You will find the air filter won't get as dirty and you can change them less often

My crank bolt loosened up. Hope you had the right torque wrench.

If over the next few weeks, your oil pressure drops and your power steering gets squirrely, you will need to tighten up.

Dont ask me how I know about that

wesintl
03-21-2010, 08:55 PM
firggin cool. I need one too :hill:

congrats it's up and running

nakman
03-21-2010, 09:21 PM
Nice Job Matt. :thumb:

rover67
03-21-2010, 09:31 PM
Awesome!! great job!!!

I bet it is FUN to drive now :D

TIMZTOY
03-21-2010, 09:32 PM
congrats dude

corsair23
03-22-2010, 12:57 AM
SCHAWEET :thumb:

Although, I must say I'm a tad disappointed you didn't come do a drive by :hill:

RicardoJM
03-22-2010, 07:40 AM
Excellent work Matt!!!

Uncle Ben
03-22-2010, 08:29 AM
Atta boy! :cheers::thumb::thumb:

Welcome to the Blown 80 club! Our receptionist is on the way down to greet you...

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mfl/lowres/mfln292l.jpg

Corbet
03-22-2010, 08:35 AM
Congrats. Wish I had one too.

powderpig
03-22-2010, 08:38 AM
Good for you Matt:
Take it easy while the computer learns the new demand on the air side. Over the years, I have seen more than a couple of melted engines due to guys going wild with the right foot after getting one of these on. Take it slow and easy for the first 4-500 miles. Only push it hard in a controlled manor and if you hear pinging, back off.

Hulk
03-22-2010, 08:49 AM
Ah, thanks -- good to know. I only have 3 miles on it so far. We had friends over for dinner last night, so I had to stop messing with it.

Hulk
03-22-2010, 04:50 PM
Here's the "after" photo. :)

It was interesting that some of the things that I was worried about were relatively easy, like the crank bolt removal and re-torquing to 305 ft-lbs. Other things were much more of a PITA, like lengthening the TPS and IAC harness wires, swapping the radiator (not required), and getting the 3" hose over the MAF sensor housing.

I'm glad I bought a serpentine belt tool. I ended up grinding off about 0.25" of the socket so it would clear the fan clutch. Once done, the serpentine belt install was very easy.

I'm glad to have my 80 back. I drove the 40 to work everyday for 2 months.

Hulk
03-22-2010, 05:15 PM
Could be because it's cold. Warm up your oven to say 125F and put the hose in their for a bit

Ken, thanks for this suggestion. I heated it up for about 10 minutes, and that made a big difference. It was not super hot -- I could still pick it up by hand.

Finished result:

corsair23
03-22-2010, 05:43 PM
I'll be interested in your thoughts on the SC after the honeymoon is over :) - The SC is still on my short list of wants but that is a lot of cash to outlay for something...

Glad it all worked out for you and kudos again for taking the install on yourself :thumb:

Hulk
03-22-2010, 07:14 PM
I'll be interested in your thoughts on the SC after the honeymoon is over :) - The SC is still on my short list of wants but that is a lot of cash to outlay for something...

Honestly, I'm kind of interested to see how much of a difference it makes as well. So far it's been nice but not revolutionary. My critical test will be heading up Floyd Hill, Vail Pass, etc. If mountain driving improves, it will be all worthwhile.