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Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 07:17 AM
Did I miss the notice here?

Talking with someone from Stay The Trail at the Sportsman's Expo last night, he mentioned the comment period is passed and it is final.

If we missed it, that was a big oops. Anybody got info? You can bet we lost a lot of the trails on the eastern end of Jenny Creek.

MDH33
01-08-2010, 08:03 AM
It was Nov. 4. No one ever posted up about it on our forum. Apparently, if you didn't attend the BRD OHV meeting the month before, you would not have known about it as they did not send out emails like Clear Creek did. So, since no one from Rising Sun was at the meeting (I assume), we were in the dark.

Boulder Ranger District Draft MVUM Open
House and Comment Period

Open House:

Wednesday, November 4, 4 to 7 PM
Boulder Ranger District
2140 Yarmouth Avenue, Boulder, CO 80301
303–541-2500

Comment deadline is Friday, November 13.

The draft Boulder Ranger District MVUM may be downloaded from this
Forest Service website:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/recreat...um/index.shtml

A geo-referenced version of the above map for use with Global Mapper may
be downloaded from the COHVCO website here:

http://cohvco.org/mvum/brd_front_DRA..._rectified.zip



There's a thread about it on CO4x4. Doesn't sound good:

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=157909


Final map can be found here:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/recreation/travel_mgmt/mvum/index.shtml

Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 08:25 AM
Yep, we lost the loop completion on 502.3A. And all of the routes I had hoped for on the eastern end, that made loops. So the eastern end of Jenny Creek is an out-and-back, and they didn't consider how frustrated users on an out-and-back that essentially goes nowhere get frustrated and go where they shouldn't.

OOPS. :rant:

BUT... what is the deal with 501.1??? Part of Boulder Wagon Road is actually OPEN now?? It is per the legend. That is the CONTROVERSIAL AND DIFFICULT-TO-RESOLVE PART for pities' sake! By golly I am going to drive it!! Map in hand of course. Could this actually be an incremental opening of the road? Does this represent an opportunity for Rising Sun to make ourselves available to solve any remaining concerns on the closed section?

Looks like 808 connects to Eldora as a motorcycle trail. I do know folks like to ride that access, no idea how Eldora feels about it.

I will have to read up.

AxleIke
01-08-2010, 08:28 AM
Adam and a few others said they'd cover, since I could not be there.

I sent out PM's to locals.

Uncle Ben
01-08-2010, 09:11 AM
Yep, we lost the loop completion on 502.3A. And all of the routes I had hoped for on the eastern end, that made loops. So the eastern end of Jenny Creek is an out-and-back, and they didn't consider how frustrated users on an out-and-back that essentially goes nowhere get frustrated and go where they shouldn't.

OOPS. :rant:

BUT... what is the deal with 501.1??? Part of Boulder Wagon Road is actually OPEN now?? It is per the legend. That is the CONTROVERSIAL AND DIFFICULT-TO-RESOLVE PART for pities' sake! By golly I am going to drive it!! Map in hand of course. Could this actually be an incremental opening of the road? Does this represent an opportunity for Rising Sun to make ourselves available to solve any remaining concerns on the closed section?

Looks like 808 connects to Eldora as a motorcycle trail. I do know folks like to ride that access, no idea how Eldora feels about it.

I will have to read up.

Level 1 roads are not on the map period! Any road that has a number is on the map but being on the map does not mean it's open. A great example is a road shown that loops around the bottom side of Gold Lake. It's on the map and it is numbered but at this time it is not a legal route. Clear as mud?

Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 09:12 AM
Posted this on CO4x4:

Observation: It looks like they opened part of the Boulder Wagon Road (501.1). Now it is an out-and-back from Corona east. The amazing thing is, THIS IS THE PORTION OF THE ROAD THAT IS MOST CONTROVERSIAL. THAT is the portion of BWR that was used as an excuse to not open the route: too close to Wilderness and maybe incurs on it, too close to / crosses over a pipeline, too much braiding, cannot reroute without NEPA, etc.

All bogus of course. Hmmm... The BRD is very hard to figure out.

I will certainly be driving it. Map in hand of course. Maybe Rising Sun could assist in adding placards, engraved photo kiosk maybe, and other items to make it an historical interpretive route? I have photos from when the railroad ran over The Hill, taken from that very spot. Denver Public Library, Western History Department. Spectacular.

Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 09:13 AM
Level 1 roads are not on the map period! Any road that has a number is on the map but being on the map does not mean it's open. A great example is a road shown that loops around the bottom side of Gold Lake. It's on the map and it is numbered but at this time it is not a legal route. Clear as mud?
Per the OHV rule, per the map legend... 501.1 is open. Period. I will drive it and we can resolve it in court if they like.

Why do you say the Gold Lake loop is not a legal route, if it is on the map?

Uncle Ben
01-08-2010, 09:17 AM
Per the OHV rule, per the map legend... 501.1 is open. Period. I will drive it and we can resolve it in court if they like.

Why do you say the Gold Lake loop is not a legal route, if it is on the map?

Because it is vegetated and reduced to a foot path in a wetland area. Just because you have a rope doesn't mean you can climb it!

Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 09:23 AM
Because it is vegetated and reduced to a foot path in a wetland area. Just because you have a rope doesn't mean you can climb it!
Per the OHV rule... I can certainly drive it nonetheless! If on the MVUM, it's legal. As many times as that thing is used against us, if it is (in this case) for us, by golly I am driving it.

MDH33
01-08-2010, 09:55 AM
does that section of 501.1 connect to the closed section near the lake? I'm not as familiar with that trail as you all.

Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 11:32 AM
It is the same road. Very strange to see it on the map. They show it stopping where it actually keeps going. I thought they put a hell-for-stout gate up on the top by Corona townsite... right where the show the western terminus of 501.1... :dunno:

Uncle Ben
01-08-2010, 12:13 PM
It is the same road. Very strange to see it on the map. They show it stopping where it actually keeps going. I thought they put a hell-for-stout gate up on the top by Corona townsite... right where the show the western terminus of 501.1... :dunno:

If roads just stop there might be a right of way or private property at that point. There is several roads on the full map that disappear for those reasons. I have to hand it to the ranger districts as the data input they had to put together by deadline for the map printing was tremendous! I haven't looked at the completed map yet but another example of a hurdle that couldn't be jumped by deadline was the new rock crawl course at Left Hand. It hadn't been signed because the engineers hadn't approved the required winch anchor points so that technically still leaves it as a level 1 road (not numbered) so inclusion on the master map wasn't allowed.

Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 01:01 PM
If roads just stop there might be a right of way or private property at that point. There is several roads on the full map that disappear for those reasons. I have to hand it to the ranger districts as the data input they had to put together by deadline for the map printing was tremendous!
Adam put a great deal of it together for them.
I haven't looked at the completed map yet ...
Take a look at the map then. The only boundary the end of the road encounters is where it is next to the END of Indian Peaks Wilderness and James Peak Wilderness. Which brings to mind a small fact I remember from our travails: the James Peak Wilderness Act made specific reference to the road and excluded it from the Wilderness IIRC. So here is a road, in the MVUM, which satisfies an act of Congress... but you cannot get to it because of the gate on the west end, and the 'absence' of the road going eastward.

Yep, that sounds like Christine. I have no idea how the MVUM jibes with the administrative closure... they may have muddied their own waters. Good for us.

But it does establish the most controversial section of the road. The rest should be easy (compared to other things in Boulder).

MDH33
01-08-2010, 01:51 PM
Is the section to the East in the BRD or another district?

Red_Chili
01-08-2010, 02:42 PM
All BRD. It terminates in the west where it rejoins Rollins Pass Road, @ Sulphur Ranger District, but even there Rollins Pass Road is shown.

16482

Hmmm.
It *could* be that this is the portion of the railbed west of Needle's Eye. Hard to tell. Goes too far east though. And I seem to recall it was closed well west of Needle's Eye - the trestles are unsafe to cross at Devil's Slide. Anybody able to tell better than me, from this map?

nakman
01-08-2010, 03:14 PM
So Bill how would one get to 501.1? from the Winter Park side? Looks like Rollins Pass road is still closed at the parking lot before Needles Eye tunnel.. that spot where we winched that Dodge guy right?

Uncle Ben
01-08-2010, 03:20 PM
All BRD. It terminates in the west where it rejoins Rollins Pass Road, @ Sulphur Ranger District, but even there Rollins Pass Road is shown.

16482

Hmmm.
It *could* be that this is the portion of the railbed west of Needle's Eye. Hard to tell. Goes too far east though. And I seem to recall it was closed well west of Needle's Eye - the trestles are unsafe to cross at Devil's Slide. Anybody able to tell better than me, from this map?

The trestles have been bypassed for years! That section of road is totally accessible from Winter Park side!