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View Full Version : Chevy Aveo - Watch out!


rover67
01-13-2010, 08:38 AM
So I'm helping out a friend and getting their Aveo running again. Time away from the 40, but they are good folks.

Timing belt broke at 65k miles.

If you know anybody with one of these please have them look at the belt and replace it. After doing lots of reading it is not uncommon for them to go at 40-50k miles. Pretty unbelievable if you ask me. Chevy knows about it and has a TSB out but it only covers the vehicle untill 55k apparantly. Plus how many of those folks know to search TSB's anyways?

Anywho, figured you guys would enjoy the carnage.

Jacket
01-13-2010, 08:42 AM
Sounds a bit like Robbie's RAV4 story, albeit the Chevy has significantly fewer miles. Yikes....

jettaglxdriver
01-13-2010, 08:58 AM
VW and Audi engines like to do that also. Clearanced engines rock.

SteveH
01-13-2010, 09:20 AM
Wow - you could just barely see the bend in my '99 Subaru Outback's valves - those make a far better 'desk ornament' and conversation starter.

You rock for going after that to fix it. The Subaru was on it's 3rd set of bent valves by 100K, so it's got the Aveo beat!

60wag
01-13-2010, 09:49 AM
So the belt lost the teeth but didn't actually break? It looks like the cam bearing siezed or something other than a belt failure - or the urethane in the belt got hard and the teeth fell off. I thought most tbelt failures were a failure of the fiber cord in the belt.

nakman
01-13-2010, 10:00 AM
No way.. so my office manager has one, I just talked to her she says it's got 90k miles on it, all she's ever done is gas & oil.. but funny you mention this as lately it's been "missing" a little bit.. :eek:

So Marco if you want to do another timing belt send me over a quote and I'll forward it to her.

rover67
01-13-2010, 10:34 AM
No way.. so my office manager has one, I just talked to her she says it's got 90k miles on it, all she's ever done is gas & oil.. but funny you mention this as lately it's been "missing" a little bit.. :eek:

So Marco if you want to do another timing belt send me over a quote and I'll forward it to her.

Man, she should REALLY get that belt replaced. it is a ticking time bomb.

Belt isn't too bad to do...

I don't know if I wanna do another one though, gotta get movin' on the 40.

rover67
01-13-2010, 10:42 AM
So the belt lost the teeth but didn't actually break? It looks like the cam bearing siezed or something other than a belt failure - or the urethane in the belt got hard and the teeth fell off. I thought most tbelt failures were a failure of the fiber cord in the belt.

This one was kinda weird because it stripped all the teeth off of it. If you take a look at it up close, all of the teeth are cracked and about to fall off. It is really brittle.

The cams both looked good and still spun nice, so did the idler and the tensioner (bearing in it sounded rough, but it still rolled nice) and the outside (ilder and tensioner run on the outside of the belt) of the belt looked like none of those parts seized and rubbed it to peices. Water pump still spun nice... it's driven by the toothed side of the belt.

I think the belts just suck.

Only replacement belt I could find was a NAPA one... the dealer even sold it to me in a NAPA box. I'd feel a lot better if it was a Gates brand, but it's not, it is something else. It's what we'll go with.

60wag
01-13-2010, 10:53 AM
It looks like a lame elastomer formulation/design to me. The normal tbelts I've seen are a black sythetic rubber with fiber in the teeth. This looks like a polyurethane with no fiber in the teeth. What did the NAPA belt look like?

jettaglxdriver
01-13-2010, 12:15 PM
Hurray for timing gears and timing chains.

Red_Chili
01-13-2010, 01:19 PM
Yeah... timing chains only take out the cover and cause coolant to pour into the crankcase...
:bolt:

jettaglxdriver
01-13-2010, 01:32 PM
Yeah... timing chains only take out the cover and cause coolant to pour into the crankcase...
:bolt:

At how many miles though?

Red_Chili
01-13-2010, 01:40 PM
That's the problem... depends. When you hear the death rattle, don't procrastinate! Generally 120K - 140K, certainly NOT 65K though it has been known to happen in RARE situations (or if a budget timing chain was used to replace the original).

Don't get me wrong, the 22RE timing chain is fine and at least it is a non-interference engine. But frankly I prefer belts (on the 5VZ-FE) - by a long shot.

jettaglxdriver
01-13-2010, 01:48 PM
Good points.

On a interference engine I personally would like the chain over a belt. Like you said on most chained engines they have a guide and tensioner that you will usually hear before it fails so you get a warning some times and they generally last longer than a belt.

Hulk
01-13-2010, 02:49 PM
Get a 2F. No timing belt, no timing chain. Gears, baby. :)

DaveInDenver
01-13-2010, 03:30 PM
Don't get me wrong, the 22RE timing chain is fine and at least it is a non-interference engine.
No, that's not true. The 22R is an interference engine.

subzali
01-13-2010, 04:09 PM
Nobody seems to know if the 2UZ-FE is an interference engine, and it has a timing belt! :dunno::eek:

rover67
01-13-2010, 08:20 PM
It looks like a lame elastomer formulation/design to me. The normal tbelts I've seen are a black sythetic rubber with fiber in the teeth. This looks like a polyurethane with no fiber in the teeth. What did the NAPA belt look like?

for your viewing pleasure:

first shot old belt, last new NAPA "house" brand

rover67
01-13-2010, 08:21 PM
last of NAPA

leiniesred
01-13-2010, 10:17 PM
My little sister took the teeth off a genuine toyota timing belt on my 1986 camry. Looked just like that. On a VERY cold day in Chicago.
But it was a non interference engine.

Cops came up, helped her push it to the CORRECT side of the interstate, then offered to take the girls to Denny's or something where they could make a phone call. "Denny's? What? No. Take us to the MALL we're going to the MALL!" (Nothing could stop my 16 y.o. sister from getting to the mall in the 1980s!)

My Dad and I drove out in the ol' CJ5 Jeep and towed the camry home on a rope. 30 miles. It was really cold steering and braking back there in the camry as the sun went down.

rover67
01-13-2010, 10:41 PM
You're stories crack me up dude..

Red_Chili
01-14-2010, 12:09 PM
Get a 2F. No timing belt, no timing chain. Gears, baby. :)
Ah the mighty 2F. The mini's had their equivalent, the intrepid 3.slo. No thanks.
:lmao:

Red_Chili
01-14-2010, 12:15 PM
No, that's not true. The 22R is an interference engine.
Wah suh ah wuz misinfohmed... due to some 22REs breaking timing chains and emerging unscathed probably.

DaveInDenver
01-14-2010, 12:17 PM
Ah the mighty 2F. The mini's had their equivalent, the intrepid 3.slo. No thanks.
:lmao:
Uh, 2F = 3VZ? The 20R or pre-1985 22R, about the closest Hilux engines I would think.

DaveInDenver
01-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Wah suh ah wuz misinfohmed... due to some 22REs breaking timing chains and emerging unscathed probably.
Don't have statistics or anything, but I had a valve kiss a piston on my engine. My chain let go at idle and so damage was not extensive due to that maybe? I'm pretty sure I've read it other places that the R-series is zero clearance, maybe Roger Brown?

jettaglxdriver
01-14-2010, 12:37 PM
My little sister took the teeth off a genuine toyota timing belt on my 1986 camry. Looked just like that. On a VERY cold day in Chicago.
But it was a non interference engine.

Cops came up, helped her push it to the CORRECT side of the interstate, then offered to take the girls to Denny's or something where they could make a phone call. "Denny's? What? No. Take us to the MALL we're going to the MALL!" (Nothing could stop my 16 y.o. sister from getting to the mall in the 1980s!)

My Dad and I drove out in the ol' CJ5 Jeep and towed the camry home on a rope. 30 miles. It was really cold steering and braking back there in the camry as the sun went down.

I helped a friend tow his car back to where we lived in NW Ohio from Ft. Wayne Indiana in the middle of the night. Ya it was fall and I froze my ass off.

Rzeppa
01-14-2010, 06:18 PM
VW and Audi engines like to do that also. Clearanced engines rock.

My wife's 2001 beetle has the 1.8 turbo; her belt went out and there were no bent valves. All it took was a belt replacement. Dunno if it's interference and we just got lucky, or if that particular engine is non-interference.

Rzeppa
01-14-2010, 06:19 PM
Hurray for timing gears and timing chains.

X2 on what you wrote about gears (and what Matt wrote).

Rzeppa
01-14-2010, 06:24 PM
No, that's not true. The 22R is an interference engine.

X2. My daughter's 22RE lunched the valves in her '85 Runner when her chain slipped due to substandard guides and tensioner. Joe Calleja schooled me on the difference between aftermarket versus OEM guides and tensioners for 22REs. When he does a 22RE chain, he will use an after market kit, but toss the guides and tensioner and buy an OEM set for his customers.

Did I mention that doing the chain on a 22RE is a PITA? You gotta pull the head! :rant:

DaveInDenver
01-14-2010, 07:24 PM
X2. My daughter's 22RE lunched the valves in her '85 Runner when her chain slipped due to substandard guides and tensioner. Joe Calleja schooled me on the difference between aftermarket versus OEM guides and tensioners for 22REs. When he does a 22RE chain, he will use an after market kit, but toss the guides and tensioner and buy an OEM set for his customers.

OEM tensioner and guides are key. The gears and chain, particularly the chain since Toyota is really, really proud of it, might be alright using decent aftermarket. But skimping on the guides and tensioner are a guarantee of disaster!

Did I mention that doing the chain on a 22RE is a PITA? You gotta pull the head! :rant:

Not strictly, it's certainly the right way. Not to mention when chain/guide/tensioner are done so is the HG really. But I did a timing R&R just dropping the pan and being careful of the front tab on the HG. It's truly the ghetto way...

rover67
01-14-2010, 09:47 PM
X2. My daughter's 22RE lunched the valves in her '85 Runner when her chain slipped due to substandard guides and tensioner. Joe Calleja schooled me on the difference between aftermarket versus OEM guides and tensioners for 22REs. When he does a 22RE chain, he will use an after market kit, but toss the guides and tensioner and buy an OEM set for his customers.

Did I mention that doing the chain on a 22RE is a PITA? You gotta pull the head! :rant:

Funny thing is that the first head I ever did was on an 85 pickup that had a broken chain and munched a handfull of valves. It was the one that we couldn't figure out where the exhaust leak was.... well, it wasn't an exhaust leak.. it was that chain.

stripped a few of the header bolts, the head bolts, and some of the cam cap bolts.

Drilled out the header bolts for a heli coil and accidentally went too deep and hit an oil passage way.

It took us all night to get it put back together. I remember pulling the head bolts out of the exhaust side was a royal pain. I heli coiled them too. Man it was a cluster.

The motor ran great on that truck, but my buddy totalled it a month later.

Red_Chili
01-15-2010, 07:49 AM
DOH!!!
Can trucks have bad karma? That one appears to have been destined. Kinda like Squishy's Radio Flyer.

subzali
01-15-2010, 08:51 AM
Ah the mighty 2F. The mini's had their equivalent, the intrepid 3.slo. No thanks.
:lmao:

Fightin' words son...

subzali
01-15-2010, 08:52 AM
My wife's 2001 beetle has the 1.8 turbo; her belt went out and there were no bent valves. All it took was a belt replacement. Dunno if it's interference and we just got lucky, or if that particular engine is non-interference.

My friend's sister has a beetle that broke a belt on the highway. Bent a bunch of valves...

SteveH
01-15-2010, 11:59 AM
Interesting story: Motor magazine profiled a non-interference engine that bent the valves when the belt snapped because there was 1/8" of carbon on top of the pistons. Ooops. The carbon buildup made the piston 'tall' enough to hit the valves. Bummer.

Also, the Gates Rubber website has a good reference for which engines (belt driven, presumably) are interference and non-interference.