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theboomboom
01-22-2010, 06:13 PM
Now that it has gotten colder in the mornings I've noticed that my truck makes a noise if I drive it without giving it a few minutes to warm up. The noise is relatively high pitched, and it increases in volume with engine speed. As the truck warms up, the noise goes away. The research I've done so far seems to indicate that it may be a pully or even the speedometer cable, but then I started noticing another noise today.

It is a bad rattling/vibration noise coming from the engine bay. Almost like a there's a loose bolt that's letting something rattle. It goes away if I put the clutch in and let the engine wind down, but accelerating or decellerating it rattles. There is also a definite difference in the rattle driving normally vs WOT at the same rpm, so I'm worried it may be the timing chain.

The truck has 182k and as far as I know the only work that has been done to the engine the past 30 years has been oil changes. There may have been more than that, but I don't have much information about its history going back more than a couple years.

If these symptoms aren't the sign of a timing chain letting loose I'll go through the truck and see if I can find any loose bolts, this was just my first thought so I want to either confirm or disprove it.

DaveInDenver
01-22-2010, 07:08 PM
Your 22R has a double row timing chain, so it's probably not the common 'timing chain rattle'. That only affects 1985 to 1995 22R engines. The timing in the 20R and early 22R is good for 300,000 miles.

The squeal could be a belt, throw out bearing, water pump or alternator bearing, maybe the power steering pump. I would eliminate the easy stuff first, belts, bearings, etc.

Could also be clutch or tranny noise, like a slipping clutch.

Speedo cable in my truck made more of a grinding sound than a squealing sound. It did squeak for about an hour before it seized and broke, though. But the previous year or two it was warning me big time with the noise and bouncing needle, both of which I summarily ignored...

I would also look at the exhaust system, heat shields and loose wires vibrating. A broken exhaust pipe or broken hanger would make a rattle.

OTOH, the previous owner is a known problem, I would ask him for part of your money back on this obvious lemon. :-)

MDH33
01-24-2010, 07:18 PM
OTOH, the previous owner is a known problem, I would ask him for part of your money back on this obvious lemon. :-)

:tongue2:


Rick, are the hubs locked? That rattling sound you're describing sounds kind of like the noise I was telling you about that disappeared as soon as I took the drive shaft off and kept the hubs unlocked.

theboomboom
01-24-2010, 09:16 PM
:tongue2:


Rick, are the hubs locked? That rattling sound you're describing sounds kind of like the noise I was telling you about that disappeared as soon as I took the drive shaft off and kept the hubs unlocked.

Negative, they're both unlocked. the sound I'm hearing is much closer to the noise a cell phone makes when it vibrates on a table as opposed to a deep driveline growl.

Didn't get a chance to really look into it this weekend, I'm suspicious its exhaust or loose electrical connector related. I'm going to take a better look when it warms up and I don't have so much homework to distract me...

Old40Dog
01-24-2010, 10:17 PM
Negative, they're both unlocked. the sound I'm hearing is much closer to the noise a cell phone makes when it vibrates on a table as opposed to a deep driveline growl.

Didn't get a chance to really look into it this weekend, I'm suspicious its exhaust or loose electrical connector related. I'm going to take a better look when it warms up and I don't have so much homework to distract me...

Wow, these can be tough to isolate. Has the clutch been replaced? I'm betting that the noise is from the throw out bearing, as I've found that even when replaced the bearing can be a bit noisey, especially when cold IMO.

Try engaging and disengaging the clutch to see if the noise tone changes. Depending on whether or not the clutch has been replaced, it may not be an immediate issue. Just be sure to comtinue to pay close attention to any changes in the noise to determine its true source.

Red_Chili
01-25-2010, 07:49 AM
Fan belt idler pulleys routinely roach their bearings.

You can just buy the bearing BTW.
Scroll Down to Idler Pulley Bearing (http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=827786&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1)

DaveInDenver
01-25-2010, 08:41 AM
Fan belt idler pulleys routinely roach their bearings.

You can just buy the bearing BTW.
Scroll Down to Idler Pulley Bearing (http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=827786&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1)
I get them from the NAPA across the street from Groove. In fact, pretty sure I have a couple sitting at home and can look up the NAPA/Koyo number tonight if you want, Rick. Literally a few minute job, no press or anything required. Takes a lot longer to get the idler bracket off and on than to R&R the bearing.

theboomboom
01-25-2010, 02:21 PM
Is there a test I could do to confirm it's that bearing?

Red_Chili
01-25-2010, 02:32 PM
Pull it. It will be crunchy and dry. SHOULD be pretty obvious, it is not a subtle failure.

Or... use a screwdriver as a stethoscope.
WARNING: that fan will be VERY close and the screwdriver handle will be in your ear. This is hazardous. I don't EVEN want to hear you had an accident!!!!!!!

DaveInDenver
01-25-2010, 02:56 PM
Besides screwdrivers you can use ratchet extensions, random lengths of wood/aluminum/steel, threaded rod as hasty stethoscopes. Or try spraying the bearing with white lithium grease or WD40 or silicone spray and if it quiets it down temporarily then you know the bearing is toast. Various lubes will work for varying lengths of time but nothing except grease will last long.

nakman
01-25-2010, 04:52 PM
It goes away if I put the clutch in and let the engine wind down, but accelerating or decellerating it rattles. There is also a definite difference in the rattle driving normally vs WOT at the same rpm..

I'm no carb guy, but that sounds like a heat shield/exhaust component noise to me. I can make my 80 either do that or not do that while wheeling, just based on how much gas I'm giving it, and my theory is it's the twisting of the engine that's varying.


Can you make the sound happen while stopped? If so show your brother how to do it, then lie under the truck and look for the noise.. poking around with a 2x2 or something.

Red_Chili
01-25-2010, 05:13 PM
Yeah, I had a 20R with a manifold heat shield issue just like that...

DaveInDenver
01-25-2010, 05:38 PM
Yeah, I had a 20R with a manifold heat shield issue just like that...
Prior to going to a header this is the exhaust heatshield on my truck that vibrated occasionally. It was a pretty obvious rattle, particularly with the hood up. Sounded like if you sat a pie pan on the valve cover, a very distinct metallic buzz/vibe. It was tough for me to solve because I like to anti-seize everything. But being attached to the exhaust manifold bolts' tendency were to want to start rusting in place after cooking off the anti-seize. So I ended up using copper anti-seize (which is what I use on my spark plugs BTW because it's conductive) and snugging the bolts when they'd work loose.

RicardoJM
01-25-2010, 07:28 PM
All great suggestions - you should check the nut that holds on your air cleaner. I hear that if it is loose in can make the noise you are hearing...:D

Old40Dog
01-25-2010, 07:51 PM
All great suggestions - you should check the nut that holds on your air cleaner. I hear that if it is loose in can make the noise you are hearing...:D

Wow...:cool:...quite a variety of opinons here...but all very interestingly good suggestions...these outta keep you busy for a few days Rick! :lmao: Hopefuly its one of the simple ones thats the fix.:)

theboomboom
01-25-2010, 10:09 PM
The old man beat me to it, but it took me about 30 seconds to diagnose once I popped the hood in the daylight. I appreciate all the wisdom being shared here, I'm sure I won't be the last one to go noise chasing and I hope this thread can be a good reference for those who have similar issues in the future to discover.

MDH33
01-26-2010, 07:40 AM
All great suggestions - you should check the nut that holds on your air cleaner. I hear that if it is loose in can make the noise you are hearing...:D


Glad it was an easy fix. ;)

Red_Chili
01-26-2010, 08:42 AM
Yabut... what was it??
Loose nut behind the wheel?

RicardoJM
01-26-2010, 08:42 AM
Don't go be thinking I'm all that sharp, Rick figured out yesterday with your guys help:thumb:. He brought me up to date when I got home last night and I could not resist putting my post up.

RicardoJM
01-26-2010, 08:44 AM
Yabut... what was it??
Loose nut behind the wheel?

The nut that holds on the air cleaner cover was not snug and at higher RPM the washer would vibrate resulting in the noise.