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View Full Version : FJ40 Spring under lift options


rover67
01-22-2010, 07:40 PM
yes yes, I know... do your research.

BUT, I was wondering what folks in the club are running on their 40's that are still spring under.

Hell for stout? OME?

Should I stop trying to wonder and just get OME? Thats what I'm leaning towards since the OME springs and shocks have done OK on the 60.

tell me to buzz off if it's a topic you guys don't feel like discussing.

FWIW, I am going to stay spring under and am just looking to run 33's at this point. I'm also sticking with the stock steering setup even though it has it's drawbacks.

corsair23
01-23-2010, 01:31 AM
Marco,

My 40 has what many consider to be a POS Rancho suspension on it with the adjustable Rancho shocks (RS9000s I think)...I think it actually rides pretty good, but that might be because it is old and maybe worn out :) - IIRC folks consider the Rancho suspension to really stiff :confused:

On my '76 40 it had an SOR suspension (whatever that was they sold back then) and it rode like crap compared to the '74. It was "new" so maybe it just never got broken in...

That's all I have experience with...

MDH33
01-23-2010, 09:08 AM
I think the HFS suspension can give you 4" of lift while the OME is less, but should be fine for 33's.

I'm running the Downey 4 Inch lift. It was stiff as heck when I put it on, but much softer now. Ride is nice when the rig is loaded up with gear. My only complaint is that the springs are narrower than stock, so the shackles are a bit bit wonky. Downey is out of business now, so not sure you can get them anymore.

RicardoJM
01-23-2010, 09:09 AM
I'm interested in this as well. I could probably list off the lift systems that are on the 40s of most of our club members; base kit, shackle type length, u-bolt orientation, shocks and who's done a shackle reversal. Ok, maybe I can't list it off, but I know I've had conversations with each 40 owner on these details. I've even ridden and drove a few.

Perhaps, we should gather a bunch of 40's some morning and swap out drivers in rotation so that everyone could get first hand experience with all the variations.

DaveInDenver
01-23-2010, 09:24 AM
Perhaps, we should gather a bunch of 40's some morning and swap out drivers in rotation so that everyone could get first hand experience with all the variations.
Should have done that on the 40s Only run!

Jacket
01-23-2010, 09:47 AM
You know where to find me if you want to try out the OME setup.

Corbet
01-23-2010, 11:03 AM
I had the OME on mine with a SR when she was my driver. No complaints with ride quality as it was very good. But in the end I wish I would have just done the SOA and been done with it. roughly the same money and room for bigger tires.

Uncle Ben
01-23-2010, 11:47 AM
If your only doing 2.5+ OME is hands down the best quality and ride. If I was to buy a 4"+ today I would go for BDS or Alcan. But that's just me.... :rolleyes: Spring overs can be done cheaply but you will do it again as you wont be happy in the long run. If you do a SO do it right the first time! That is not a cheap option but will save you money in the long run!

Corbet
01-23-2010, 12:26 PM
Kevin, I guess I don't understand where the increase in cost is with the SOA.

Granted much more labor, but if you do your own cut and turn then it seems to be a wash in my mind. Assuming your existing springs are usable. The money you save on springs should cover a high steer and traction bar if you choose. Spring perches are cheap. Otherwise new shocks, brake lines, etc.. are required for both.

Now if you have to pay someone for all the extra labor then I understand more cost to SOA. Am I missing something?

Uncle Ben
01-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Kevin, I guess I don't understand where the increase in cost is with the SOA.

Granted much more labor, but if you do your own cut and turn then it seems to be a wash in my mind. Assuming your existing springs are usable. The money you save on springs should cover a high steer and traction bar if you choose. Spring perches are cheap. Otherwise new shocks, brake lines, etc.. are required for both.

Now if you have to pay someone for all the extra labor then I understand more cost to SOA. Am I missing something?


Your right Corbet! I always assume most folks do not have the tools or knowledge to do their own cut and turn. The high majority of spring-overs out there are hacked. It is labor intensive to do it correctly. A track bar for the rear is also required whether it is fabbed or purchased. The springs on a 40 are designed to be SU so if your going through the efforts to do it right, longer springs will also benefit both the longevity of the springs and the available wheel travel at each wheel. Another factor that has to be considered in a SO is how much lift you will need in the long run. Even at 5" over stock the CG/track width becomes an issue so will you be happy with just wheel spacers or off-set wheels? In my opinion if 36" and larger tires will be the ultimate goal then wider axles might as well be planned in to the build early! If you going with FJ-60 axles you need to either outboard the front springs of come up with another plan on how the chunk will fit the springs.

treerootCO
01-23-2010, 01:34 PM
40's but the technology is the same....

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/93512-ultimate-sua-suspension.html

My 40 is running the Downey back breakers with three leafs added from a Northern spring pack. Because of the cantilever shackles, I can't keep springs arched for more than one run. After a single run, the are flat or inverted.

16774

16775

16776

wesintl
01-23-2010, 01:53 PM
who's truck is that with the black panels and rusty paint?

Uncle Ben
01-23-2010, 02:15 PM
who's truck is that with the black panels and rusty paint?

Dave Armbrusters! ;) :lmao:

Corbet
01-23-2010, 03:50 PM
In my opinion if 36" and larger tires will be the ultimate goal then wider axles might as well be planned in to the build early! If you going with FJ-60 axles you need to either outboard the front springs of come up with another plan on how the chunk will fit the springs.

Axle width is one thing I did not think of at the time of my last post. I agree with you here and plan to run a 60 series front and centered diamond housing rear when I rebuild my 40. New axles would definitely greatly increase the cost.

Uncle Ben
01-23-2010, 04:07 PM
Axle width is one thing I did not think of at the time of my last post. I agree with you here and plan to run a 60 series front and centered diamond housing rear when I rebuild my 40. New axles would definitely greatly increase the cost.

I always try to think a few steps ahead of a project and I know how I am and things are never done. If it costs the same to build something that upgrades are planned into as it does to simply just do what I want now then by all means build it now for later!

DaveInDenver
01-23-2010, 08:14 PM
Dave Armbrusters! ;) :lmao:
It was far, far worse looking than that when Root got it from me. Far worse. He was heaven sent for that FJ40, it needed a knucklehead like him to do it right. Digging the vintage of that photo with the gray right door. When it left me it had a green left door, gray right, one blue fender, a whole lot of patina. It was the Technicolor Cruiser!

rover67
01-25-2010, 01:24 PM
Wow, lots of info..

My brain is scrambled.

Mike, your rig looks like it flexes great.

So after reading everything it makes me think I should go the custom route and make sure I get my shackle angles right. Either that or get some 55 or 60 springs.

Pretty sure I don't want to do the SOA with this truck. I feel like I have a wheeling rig already and if I were to SOA the 40 I'd want to take it much farther down the built for wheeling path. It is tempting though since I have a set of sprung over 60 axles in the garage ready to go..

Ok, back to more reading. Thanks for all the input guys..

Uncle Ben
01-25-2010, 01:32 PM
Wow, lots of info..

My brain is scrambled.

Mike, your rig looks like it flexes great.

So after reading everything it makes me think I should go the custom route and make sure I get my shackle angles right. Either that or get some 55 or 60 springs.

Pretty sure I don't want to do the SOA with this truck. I feel like I have a wheeling rig already and if I were to SOA the 40 I'd want to take it much farther down the built for wheeling path. It is tempting though since I have a set of sprung over 60 axles in the garage ready to go..

Ok, back to more reading. Thanks for all the input guys..

In all seriousness you really need to be honest to yourself. If you plan on lockers and 33's now it will be very hard to not morph again! 40's biggest limiting factor on big rocks is the crawl ratio! 2.3:1 T-case is really crippling when the rocks and tires get bigger!

Rzeppa
01-26-2010, 06:52 PM
In all seriousness you really need to be honest to yourself. If you plan on lockers and 33's now it will be very hard to not morph again! 40's biggest limiting factor on big rocks is the crawl ratio! 2.3:1 T-case is really crippling when the rocks and tires get bigger!

I agree with that, except I'm happy with 33s, a rear lock right and 2.3 t-case. I can drive to and from work on the pavement, to and from the trailhead without trailering, and still take on most trails. The rear driveline's not too short (from toybox, NP203, any of the 5 speeds, etc.), and I haven't sunk a bunch of money in it (read=orion).

I am sprung under with a custom lift where the bottom two leaves of each stock pack are removed and replaced with a Rancho add-a-leaf. Great articulation (for sprung under and leaf springs), good road manners, and cost $120. Bushings and shocks cost extra. 33x10.5 fit perfect.

I have read and heard from numerous sources that cut and turn for SO is only necessary for wagons, and not for shorty 40s. Same with SR. IOW, I have heard and read from a number of people who I trust and respect that some fall in the cut/turn and Sr is good on SOs, and others say it's only for necessary for wagons.

I have also heard that OMEs are an AWESOME upgrade for a SU wagon, but that their 40 packs are harsh and too short. I have an OME kit (medium/medium) on my 76 40 project, and while I haven't driven it yet to report on whether it's harsh or soft. I can definitely say the rears look too short.

subzali
01-26-2010, 07:23 PM
Jeff, I would think the opposite would be true. Don't 60s have more distance from the pinions to the t-case, and thus are better able to handle a larger difference in height due to a lift?

Marco, seems to me by the way you're taking pains to keep it stock, restore things back to original spec, fix the body and paint it nice (as opposed to not caring), etc. that all you will want/need for THIS 40 is a 2 1/2" or at most 4" spring under lift, maybe a u-bolt flip kit, and run 33x10.50 or 33x12.50 or 34x10.50. I would recommend a 2 1/2" lift like Jacket has, a rear locker of some flavor (do you still have your Lockright?), and run it. Then see what you want to do.

I've had thoughts of maybe attacking a more aggressive 40 project some day, but I think that even though my 40 isn't a show vehicle by any means I would have a hard time taking it down that road. I would personally want to buy a 40 with no real back history to speak of and approach it with a whole different mentality. To me there's pleasure in both approaches - 1 is like what you're doing - take it back to stock with some slight mods and see what it'll do. 2 is like Uncle Ben and Randy - keep changing things out to see what works the best for what you want to do that particular season of 'wheeling :weld: Like I said both are fulfilling.

If it were me going route 2 I might take a look at something more like this to start from:
http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/1562884001.html

my :twocents:

Uncle Ben
01-26-2010, 08:45 PM
Jeff, Matt is correct. You facts are close but because of the steeper angle of the 40 drive shaft it will bind much sooner than a 60 will with it's longer/less angled drive shafts.

nakman
01-26-2010, 09:19 PM
I would go for the 2.5" OME if it were me.. easily clear 33's especially if you stay skinny. I would also keep it open until you want to do ARB's.. in the mean time if you need to run a harder trail take the 60!

Rzeppa
01-26-2010, 09:22 PM
Jeff, I would think the opposite would be true. Don't 60s have more distance from the pinions to the t-case, and thus are better able to handle a larger difference in height due to a lift?

Intuitively (as an engineer) I would agree, thus my disclaimers in simply relating what others, who I greatly respect, have said and written.

Rzeppa
01-26-2010, 09:29 PM
Jeff, Matt is correct. You facts are close but because of the steeper angle of the 40 drive shaft it will bind much sooner than a 60 will with it's longer/less angled drive shafts.

Again, simply relating what I've been told by others who have done this - I haven't. As far as binding, there are other ways to deal with it such as clearancing yokes. If I were going to do a SO on my '71 40 (and have thought about it long and hard), I would not choose a SR, but would consider a cut and turn, and adding the double cardan on both driveshafts that would require from pointing the pinions up.

$$$

I like low budget, and like not having to trailer. Some places, I'll take the bypass :-)

wesintl
01-26-2010, 09:37 PM
just run a 2.5 lift and be done whether it's ome or whatever. your 82 will be too nice to hack up further for some radical lift when your done. It's much more driveable with a 2.5 lift.

I do think that OME's are kinda bouncy but overall not bad. I don't like they way they sag with a bar and a winch either. Where they shine is gravel roads and washboards. Overall it's good fit for most of the passes in colorado. I don't think they are that great for moab slickrock but work better for alot of the dirt roads around moab.

anyway. good luck

Jacket
01-27-2010, 09:52 AM
I agree with the 2.5" comments.

For most with 2 4x4's in the stable, one of the rigs becomes the primary wheeler for difficult trails. The way you've built the 60, now with 35's, gears, lockers, hysteer, etc., that truck will run all but a few hardcore trails.

So to keep the 40 smaller and closer to stock makes sense to me. And if you change your mind, it's pretty easy to sell the parts and slap some 39.5" Iroks on it. ;)

rover67
01-28-2010, 12:24 AM
Yeah, I am thinking keep it smaller. Matt, I'll take a look at your truck, I'm interested in seeing the shackle angles.

I know I have to do something.. I pulled the front shocks off tonight and noticed that they were only letting the axle droop about 1.5". coupled with the thing only sitting a few inches off the bumps stops it yielded pretty much no articulation. I guess they had the wrong shocks on it, but hey, might as well rebuild the suspension right?

Thanks for all the input, it has helped tremendously.

PabloCruise
01-28-2010, 10:13 AM
Some good reads in here!

A few comments:

I run the Downey 4" lift. You can still get it from Mark Algazey (sp?) of Mark's Off Road.

I do not think it is too rough, but I run it with the rear springs flipped for wheelbase, with Doetsch Tech shocks and a longer rear shackle. I think the shock absorber you choose to accompany a spring will make a difference.

The reality is that these are a short wheelbase vehicle (the 40), and they will feel the terrain differently than a wagon. I love the way my 55 rides!

I am in the category 1 that Matt and Jeff described, mostly stock, mild wheeling and low cost are my preference. 33's, rear auto locker and PS get me most of the views I want to see. Wrenching (and life) prohibit most of my wheeling weekends anyway. So it is fun to be able to drive my 40 to work and smile when I go outside to drive home.

Regarding SOA and cut-n-turn, I wonder if what Jeff has heard from the wagon crowd is due to a shorter front driveshaft than the 40 front driveshaft? I know my front shaft on the 55 is pretty short...

Good luck!

LARGEONE
01-28-2010, 10:48 AM
Marco...all I will say is that I paid someone a lot of money to do a SOA on my '76 and it is the biggest reason I no longer own the vehicle! With the spring pack and the thickness of the axle, it turns out to be about 7" of lift. 35" tires looked small on it after the lift. Also, as Uncle Ben has suggested, I ran it without a torsion bar which made things even more expensive after popping the rear pinion.

One day, I will own another 40 and I will stay spring under with about 3" of lift. My SOA was so unstable and had so much bump steer (I didn't do the hi-steer) that it was almost undriveable on the highway. I felt like I was needing to buy a trailer to get it to the trails! Hence, the reason I sold it...I couldn't afford a 3/4 ton truck and trailer just to own my 40!!!

Talk to Jeff (Mendocino)...he has two 40's and I think both are sprung under. I think they have two different springs, so he might have some input on which is better?

Good luck Marco...can't wait to see it.

Jacket
01-28-2010, 11:28 AM
Yeah, I am thinking keep it smaller. Matt, I'll take a look at your truck, I'm interested in seeing the shackle angles.


I left the rear shackles that were already on the truck when I installed the OME springs, since they were a bit longer than stock (maybe 1") - just to see what it would do. There's too much of a rake, and with the top off it rides pretty rough. I've got the OME shackles in my garage, just haven't taken the time to switch over to them.

mbella1
01-28-2010, 01:26 PM
I went with the Rancho Soft Ride Springs and Rancho Shocks. The ride is great but you definitley feel the lean when tiurning or driving around town. It took some time to get used to the sway in the ride, but I have much more spring flex when wheeling.:cheers:

Rezarf
01-28-2010, 06:54 PM
Your right Corbet! I always assume most folks do not have the tools or knowledge to do their own cut and turn. The high majority of spring-overs out there are hacked. It is labor intensive to do it correctly. A track bar for the rear is also required whether it is fabbed or purchased. The springs on a 40 are designed to be SU so if your going through the efforts to do it right, longer springs will also benefit both the longevity of the springs and the available wheel travel at each wheel. Another factor that has to be considered in a SO is how much lift you will need in the long run. Even at 5" over stock the CG/track width becomes an issue so will you be happy with just wheel spacers or off-set wheels? In my opinion if 36" and larger tires will be the ultimate goal then wider axles might as well be planned in to the build early! If you going with FJ-60 axles you need to either outboard the front springs of come up with another plan on how the chunk will fit the springs.


You talk like you've done this before ;)

I am running TPI's smokey mountain 4" lift kit... but I don't wheel, I'm mostly a poser. :eek::D:p:

In all honesty, it rides like an empty dump truck, I guess it flexes okay, but I'd go to a OME lift if I ever changed things up... and probably back to 33's with skinny tires on it :thumb: They have a good reputation. I'd be half tempted to go all out and either SOA or put 80 axles underneath it with coils... did I mention there would be an 80 on top of those axles? :eek:

nattybumppo
01-31-2010, 01:42 PM
I just installed the OME on my 40 last weekend with Steve Crase' help. Rides much more comfortably than the previous stock set-up on the road. Have not taken it off the pavement yet. The old setup was really saggy, esp on the driver's side. Shackle angle looks good on the driver's side after the lift install, but the passenger's side is close to straight up. Hopefully that will correct after some break-in miles. Or maybe I'll have to convert to right hand drive so my considerable middle-aged bulk will weigh it down there and make the angle better!

Hulk
01-31-2010, 03:53 PM
If your only doing 2.5+ OME is hands down the best quality and ride. If I was to buy a 4"+ today I would go for BDS or Alcan. But that's just me....

I've been running a 4" BDS lift since 2001. I like it a lot, but it required much modification to get it to fit my 1981 FJ40. BDS doesn't make a true late late model FJ40 lift kit (or didn't at the time). A bunch of stuff changed in 8/80 that means most FJ40 lift kits WILL NOT work. :(

My recommendation is to start with the 4" lift. You can run 33" tires easily, or cut the rear wheel wells and run 35" tires. If you go 2.5", you'll be doing it again in another 12 months when you decide it's not enough lift.

Here was the list of all the FJ40 lift kits (http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/fj40-susp.php) that were available back in March 2001. Woody still has it as a page on ih8mud.

rover67
01-31-2010, 08:57 PM
awesome, thanks for the info.

Matt, thanks for reminding me that th elater model ones are different. Is is spring lengths or aomethign else?

I know I have to do something because when I pulled the front shocks off they only had about an inch and a half of "droop" left in them from where they were bolted.. coupled with it sitting about an inch or so off of the bump stops it wasn't gonna flex really well at all... Wrong shocks I'd assume..

I was gonna do the suspension anyways I guess.

Hulk
02-01-2010, 12:54 AM
The width of the springs are wider and the spring eyes are a different size too.

FJBRADY
02-01-2010, 08:24 AM
You know you want 35-37" tires on it....I know you will do the right thing! :thumb:

Rzeppa
02-02-2010, 07:49 PM
The width of the springs are wider and the spring eyes are a different size too.

I knew the eyes were larger, but didn't know they were wider too?

rover67
03-30-2010, 11:31 PM
I think I am going to go with Man-A-Fre's safari springs:

http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa2/images/sss-404Dome.gif

Mainly because I don't think the OME's have quite enough lift. I like the Idea of 4" especially since the 33's that are on it now rub quite a bit and the lift it has on it looks similar in height to Matt's 40 which I checked out this weekend.

Hopefully with a 4" lift I can lower the bump stops a little bit to keep everything from rubbing with the 33's.

Off we go :D

edit: I also couldn't really find a place selling the BDS stuff online. I'll double check that that's not an option tomorrow.

Hulk
03-31-2010, 01:17 AM
I think I am going to go with Man-A-Fre's safari springs:

http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa2/images/sss-404Dome.gif


That kit comes with a lot of good stuff. The only thing I'm not sure I like is the shackle reversal system they use: it lowers the front of the springs so they become rock finders. Probably really improves the on-road manners, however.

If you're really looking to do the shackle reversal when you lift your 40, one suggestion before you buy: call Proffitt's Cruisers (http://www.proffittscruisers.com/) and talk to Jeremiah to see what they are offering. If you get a shackle reversal from them, it will be tucked up nicely in front for better clearance.

Also, did you look at the Cool Cruisers lift kits (http://coolfj40.stores.yahoo.net/liftspringshfs.html)? They have kits specifically for the post-8/80 FJ40s, too.


edit: I also couldn't really find a place selling the BDS stuff online. I'll double check that that's not an option tomorrow.

BDS never had a late model FJ40 kit. I installed their earlier kit with a bunch of modifications (including machining the pin in the shackle so the bushings would work). It was a complete PITA and I recommend not going with BDS for your late model FJ40.

rover67
03-31-2010, 08:25 AM
I was looking at MAF's kit that didn't use the shackle reversal.. I don't know if I like the shackle reversal. I looked at it for the 60 and decided against it there also.

After sleeping on it and reflecting on how the suspension on the 60 has changed over the last few years I have realized that custom springs are going to be a better way to go. I want to make sure shackle angles are good basically and it seem like all of the kits don't give me what i'm looking for.

I was on Alcan's site last night for a while reading and learning and was out there this morning taking measurements for some custom springs. I keep flip flopping, but I'm pretty much sold on them now.

I am going to go for a 4" lift and talk to them about load capability and shackle angles. I am not going to load this thing down much so maybe that will allow them to build a 4" lift spring with decent flex.

I was looking around to see if BDS made the late model springs, I wasn't planning on trying to mod the early model stuff to fit. That's why I mentioned them again.

Doing custom springs is there anything other than what they ask for as far as input goes on the alcan site that I need to be aware of? I am going to do more research and call them later today to chat anyways but figured I'd ask you guys too.

Jacket
03-31-2010, 09:34 AM
I forget - but if you go with 4" springs, isn't there additional "baggage" that comes with it? Like extending brake lines, driveline vibs, caster shims, etc.?

MDH33
03-31-2010, 09:48 AM
I forget - but if you go with 4" springs, isn't there additional "baggage" that comes with it? Like extending brake lines, driveline vibs, caster shims, etc.?

All that. But not too difficult or expensive to remedy. Driveshafts might need to be rebuilt/lengthened.

I would do a U bolt flip kit as well. Also might consider moving the rear axle back a couple of inches when you do the custom springs too. You could trim/widen the rear fenders since you plan on doing some metal work on it in the future. (Treeroot's 40 comes to mind).

Did you end up scoring the '78 top?

:thumb:

rover67
03-31-2010, 09:55 AM
I forget - but if you go with 4" springs, isn't there additional "baggage" that comes with it? Like extending brake lines, driveline vibs, caster shims, etc.?

I'm sure there will be this type of work I need to do. the brake lines are junk anyways, and I really can't see doing any kind of lift really without addressing caster angles.

As far as driveshafts go, I don't mind modding the ones I have. That should not be too big of a deal.

rover67
03-31-2010, 09:56 AM
All that. But not too difficult or expensive to remedy. Driveshafts might need to be rebuilt/lengthened.

I would do a U bolt flip kit as well. Also might consider moving the rear axle back a couple of inches when you do the custom springs too. You could trim/widen the rear fenders since you plan on doing some metal work on it in the future. (Treeroot's 40 comes to mind).

Did you end up scoring the '78 top?

:thumb:

I was thinking about the flip kit. I have it on the rear of the 60 and like it a lot. it will more than likely be in the cards.

did not get the 78 top, but am looking at another. Any Idea how much a top weighs?

MDH33
03-31-2010, 10:25 AM
did not get the 78 top, but am looking at another. Any Idea how much a top weighs?

I would guess 150-200Lbs. ? Two people can easily lift and carry one.

Hulk
03-31-2010, 12:07 PM
did not get the 78 top, but am looking at another. Any Idea how much a top weighs?

Heavy enough that when you remove it you feel like you just got a 20 HP boost. I always removed mine with 3 people: one inside the vehicle and two on either side. The top with the side panels on is heavy and enormous. Since I stopped using my 40 as a daily driver, I have never put the hard top back on -- most of it is stored in my crawl space.

Brake lines are easily extended. I lengthened my rear drive shaft when I did the 4" lift. The front one was fine. I put 4 degree caster shims in the front, which made a HUGE difference in drive-ability on road. I highly recommend this.

Your plan for an Alcan lift sounds like a good one. Build it the way you want it from the start.

MDH33
03-31-2010, 12:10 PM
Since I stopped using my 40 as a daily driver, I have never put the hard top back on -- most of it is stored in my crawl space.



There's your top Marco, even matches your paint scheme! ;)

Air Randy
03-31-2010, 12:14 PM
At one time or the other I think I've had just about every suspension option on my 40 so hers my two cents:

1-I started off with the MAF 4" SUA suspension. Rode worse than a dump truck and I had driveline vibration.

2-I converted to SOA using Alcan springs. Rode MUCH smoother, handled fine in corners (I didn't make it too tall). I rotated the rear diff up, lengthened my DS and converted it to double cardan. I built my own track bar to prevent axle wrap. I lengthened the front DS but did not do a C&T. I clearanced the yoke and it worked OK.

3-Profitt's installed crossover high steering with a saginaw PS box, did a C&T, moved the axle 2.5" forward by flipping the spring and did a shackle reversal. The longer wheel base and flipped shackles improved the ride and handling even more. My OEM PS worked good but Profitt's wanted my stock OEM PS gear really bad for a restoration project.

4-After my Moab roll I decided to go to 60 axles for more width, moved the rear back 2.5" in the process. The slightly longer wheel base further enhanced the ride, going to the wider 60 axles and outboarding the front springs helped the side to side stability immensely.

If you use the proper springs (alcan's built to your spec) you can do a SOA conversion where the lift is only slightly more than your planned 2.5" SUA lift and it will ride much better. You can keep the stock look with 33" tires but still get the benefits of having the U bolts flipped, crossover high steer, etc. To UB's point, if you have the 60 axles already I would go with them and do it right the first time. You'll be much happier if you do.

I saw where some people think doing a SOA is going to result in bad handling, etc. I think if you make sure it's done right you'll be very happy with the end result as far as smoother ride, good handling and enhanced off-road capability. If you decide you want to go with the 60 axles I have a bunch of the new HW left over you need to outboard the front spring perches.

maxsdad
03-31-2010, 09:20 PM
Randy- Do you think you could post some pictures of your clearenced yoke?

IVANII
04-13-2010, 10:58 AM
I would like to jump in here and piggy back so I don't have to start a new thread- everyones comments are very helpful to me and I can see alot of VERY smart folks here. I am in the same dilemna as ROVER67 seems to be. I want to lift IVAN but not quite sure where to go. I don't want it huge-nor have to cut it as the metal work is all new. Here are my thoughts: I would like decent road handling but also off-road performance (it doesn't go on narly trails) while fitting 33 x10.5 or 33x11.50 with no rub, and still be able to fit in a 7' garage!! I have narrowed it down to OME 2.5 and HFS 4". I have been told that with OME if the 2.5 is not enough throw a longer shackle on, but there has to be some negative to doing that!?? Also the HFS states theirs will give 3-4" of lift depending on setup?? I have the hardtop-but like to say bye to it in the summer. I would love to check out in person if someone has either of these lifts on...also I bow to all your knowledge that already isn't shared above....THX!

Even if anyone wants to post pics- it may help me!

BreckBJ44
04-13-2010, 12:10 PM
I have a newer Alcan custom lift and even though I have yet to really test it on more than easy trails and washboarded fireroads and such, it has been a great purchase.

Even though the product is great, whats better is dealing with them. When I first bought the springs, they were not familiar with the BJ44 and had not done too many 4" lifts for the 45 (my rear springs are the same as 45 springs). Also, I was building the rig for more of an expedition style of driving so I wanted more load capacity while keeping the rear height.

So the first set of rears were way to soft and I ended up cancelling a trip as I was worried about driving it that way. Alcan paid to have the springs shipped back to them (after I took them off) and they added more leaves and shipped them back to me. Now the truck has the right load capacity but the height is not there that I wanted under load (I like the truck to have a higher rear end than the front). I contacted charles and he wants me to take a few measurements, lift the rear to where I want it to see if we need to rebuild the rear packs due to the springs not being long enough to take a higher arch.

So, to make a long story longer, the fact that they are willing to go this far to make sure I am happy has made me a lifelong customer.

Rzeppa
04-13-2010, 12:18 PM
the BJ44 and had not done too many 4" lifts for the 45 (my rear springs are the same as 45 springs).

Just curious - did you have the 9 leaf packs? My 1978 FJ45 has 9 leaf packs. The top 6 are more like a regular 40 pack, but then there are 3 super-thick overload (flat) leaves that go under the main pack. When the bed is empty it has a really harsh ride, but when you get a couple thousand pounds back there it smooths out. My HZJ75 was like that too.

And what is the difference between a 44 and a 45 - a little shorter maybe? I've seen more BJ43s than 44s and was curious.

mbella1
04-13-2010, 01:27 PM
I have added a couple of pics. have an OME 2 1/2" with 15" Pro Comp Wheels with a 3 1/2" back space. I just put on the 33x12.50x15 and have plenty of room for full turns. I do have power steering, so that makes the turning easier. I could fit in a 7' garage if I didn't have my rack on top. Good luck.

BreckBJ44
04-13-2010, 01:44 PM
I have 11 or so leaves now. I never saw the stock ones as when i bought the rig, it had rearched or aftermarket crap on it. horrible ride and tons of sway.

The 44 is the same as the 43 in the body. 7-8 inches longer wheelbase thatn a 40. The 45/47 are the troopy length.

She is bouncy when unladen, but I tend to have around 2-400 lbs in the rig at all times with two dogs and tools and other gear of some sort.

Rzeppa
04-13-2010, 07:52 PM
I have 11 or so leaves now. I never saw the stock ones as when i bought the rig, it had rearched or aftermarket crap on it. horrible ride and tons of sway.

The 44 is the same as the 43 in the body. 7-8 inches longer wheelbase thatn a 40. The 45/47 are the troopy length.

She is bouncy when unladen, but I tend to have around 2-400 lbs in the rig at all times with two dogs and tools and other gear of some sort.

Hi Kraig,

Wow that sounds crazy? 11 leaves?

Okay, then that is roughly as I remember the 44 as being about the same as a 43. So what is the difference between a 43 and a 44?

While Toyota normally used the numerals to designate body style along with the suffix letters, it also designated frame length. Both the BJ/HJ45 Troopie and Pickup shared the same frame but had different bodies, as did the FJ45 pickup and wagon (P, LV respectively). A departure from this convention was 1983's introduction of the HJ47 pickup, with the frame, cab and bed virtually indistinguishable from the prior year's FJ45 but with the 2H powerplant instead of the 3B or 2F.

Back to your original question, I believe I posted somewhere on this thread about 30 pages back about the mild lift I put on my 71 FJ40 for real cheap. I don't know if the Rancho j**p add-a-lift solution will work on a 44; however I got enough inches to clear BFG 33x10.50s without fender trimming or excessive rubbing (only spot is pitman arm on my stock manual setup). And that's not even excessive, it only comes into play under full stuff and full left turn.

rover67
04-13-2010, 08:04 PM
Hey Jeff, how much did you lower the bump stops in the front?

My 33 9.50's rub a lot at full stuff with the stock bump stops.

Rzeppa
04-13-2010, 08:27 PM
Hey Jeff, how much did you lower the bump stops in the front?

My 33 9.50's rub a lot at full stuff with the stock bump stops.

I did not lower them at all, they are still factory. As I wrote, all I get is an occasional rub at the pitman arm pivot under full stuff while pulling a hard left. It just cleans the dirt off, ya know?

BreckBJ44
04-13-2010, 11:17 PM
The number system really is added by major overhauls of the driveline and amenities based on chassis.. They then use designators like the V for Van or hardtop, etc.

For example, the first bodies were the 40, 43 and 45. These are respectively SWB, MidWB and LWB. When the major overhaul happened worldwide, we got the BJ42 (five speed and 3B from the B engine) the BJ44/46 (44 was the 2b and Japan Only while the 46 was 3B and worldwide - except us) and the 47 (H to 2H engine and 5 speed). The 44 is a wierd animal as it has some of the parts from a 43 and some from a 46. They also did this with the japan only BJ41 that had the 2B engine as well. Mine has the 2B, H41 and no full floater, but does have the silver dash panel that came out here in 1983.

HTH.

Marco, let me know if you have any questions about the alcan build and such. Once I get it all dialed in (and correct my other issues) I'll let you know how I really like them!

K

IVANII
04-14-2010, 09:55 AM
I have added a couple of pics. have an OME 2 1/2" with 15" Pro Comp Wheels with a 3 1/2" back space. I just put on the 33x12.50x15 and have plenty of room for full turns. I do have power steering, so that makes the turning easier. I could fit in a 7' garage if I didn't have my rack on top. Good luck.

Thanks alot! BTW...Beautiful looking '40 You don't rub in the rear at all? I do like the stance that the OME gave you.

Jacket
04-14-2010, 10:06 AM
Hey Jeff, how much did you lower the bump stops in the front?

My 33 9.50's rub a lot at full stuff with the stock bump stops.

Where exactly are you rubbing? Front or back? Top of the fender, front of the fender, frame?

rover67
04-14-2010, 10:23 AM
it was on the front fenders somewhere, I think near the front top part.

I am going to throw it together with the suspension that is on it and wheel it some more to see exactly where it rubs before changing things up. Wouldn't want to ruin a new paint job/body work the first time I take it out :)

Rezarf
04-14-2010, 11:08 AM
My cruiser with 4" lift and unmodified bumpstops rubs all over the place. Mainly right below the turn signals where it makes the turn.

But I am probably going to tube fenders next.

Dr. Schlegs
09-03-2010, 05:05 PM
It's time to talk springs again. I figure we are nearing the end of the wheeling season, so it might be a good time to get some thoughts, while they are fresh in people's minds.

Ok so I'm looking at 4" springs, with the OME Shackles and greasable pins. Leaning towards OME shocks. After reading the thread I see there is fewer options, than compared to the 2.5" lift. HAD BEEN, thinking the Skyjacker Softride was the one I was going to go with, but now . . . After reading Matt Farr's 40 spring comparison and reading reviews of Alcan, BDS, HTS, I am left to wonder if the price jump is really worth it.

Not looking to do SOA, Flip the Spring Pack, or Four-Link:D

Rzeppa
09-03-2010, 06:51 PM
I am left to wonder if the price jump is really worth it.

Short answer:

IMHO, no.

Longer explanation:

I have yet to ride in or drive a 40 with 4" or more sprung under that had a comfortable ride, decent highway manners or even superior trail capability than the ~2.5" or so that will fit 33x10.50s. I have ridden in and occasionally allowed to drive, many, many 4" 40s and have yet to like that setup.

I have ridden in and driven a number of (properly) sprung over 40s on 35-37s that IMHO were way superior to 4" sprung under.

With my ~2.5" and 33x10.50s I can go pretty much wherever I want to. I had 35x12.50s on my HZJ75, but that is a totally different vehicle than a 40. Once you start getting much over ~35-37" you are usually talking about a trailer queen, which adds a whole new complexity (and flexibility) to your trail experience. And now you are no longer talking about a Land Cruiser that you really aren't happy with commuting to and from work, and it becomes more just an expensive toy. That's okay for a lot of people, but it just doesn't fit my personal needs.

I like to be able to drive my 40 to and from the trailhead, whether here or to and from Moab. I do plan to do a proper spring over on my 71 after I get the resto done on my 76. I put OMEs on that rig, but won't be able to test drive until I finish putting her together.

HTH and happy cruisin'!

MDH33
09-03-2010, 07:49 PM
I'm running the downey 4" springs and shackles on my 40 and running 34x10.50's. It was a rough ride at first, but either they have softened up or my butt has hardened because I think it's comfy now. :hill: I'll probably go down to 33x10.50's as these tires wear out. I don't need anything more for the trails I do.

I also agree with Jeff. I enjoy driving my 40, even on long trips. I wouldn't want to do anything to it that would make it less road friendly. (and yes, I do consider my 40 to handle the highways nicely). ;)

Uncle Ben
09-03-2010, 08:18 PM
Shocks are the key to ride quality if using high quality (note multiple leaf pack) springs! Hydraulic (cheap) shocks like Ranch 5000's will dislodge your innerds regardless of what suspension your running!

ttubb
09-04-2010, 09:37 AM
I went with the OME 2.5 springs and shocks with shackle reversal, which gave me about 4 inches of lift. U-Bolt flip kit but no SOA. Ride is very nice with good flex. Even my wife says it rides nice! :p: Terry

Uncle Ben
09-04-2010, 11:15 AM
Nice Terry! From experience I recommend you gusset the inside of the frame at the back of the SR. It doesn't take much and a simple piece of 1 x.25 strap is sufficient to distribute the loading on the bottom of the frame to the whole frame.

ttubb
09-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Nice Terry! From experience I recommend you gusset the inside of the frame at the back of the SR. It doesn't take much and a simple piece of 1 x.25 strap is sufficient to distribute the loading on the bottom of the frame to the whole frame.

Not sure I know where you mean - SR? t:confused:

Uncle Ben
09-04-2010, 11:38 AM
Not sure I know where you mean - SR? t:confused:

Shackle Reverse = SR


ASCII art is not working for me....

At the rear-ward vertical plane of the front Shackle Reverse bracket you need to add a gusset inside the frame channel so the loading of the spring on the non boxed frame can be shared top and bottom

nuclearlemon
09-04-2010, 12:22 PM
mo, i ran skyjacker 4" springs for years. i got one of the first few sets. loved them and they rode better than stock. their shocks worked well with the lift, but i had issues with the eyes ripping off two of them.

if i had another 40, i would go to them again. i wouldn't bother with another soa40 just because i don't hard core wheel enough. soa, you don't run anything smaller than a 36 or you'll look like a dork. so now figure on the lift, plus the larger tire...soa is huge.

pics of various lifts for comparison. soa with 36s vs. stock 235s & soa 36s vs. 4" downey and 33s (granted, my early top is a touch taller than the roofline of the 66 and later tops). btw, same two cruisers.

ttubb
09-04-2010, 09:50 PM
Shackle Reverse = SR


ASCII art is not working for me....

At the rear-ward vertical plane of the front Shackle Reverse bracket you need to add a gusset inside the frame channel so the loading of the spring on the non boxed frame can be shared top and bottom

Got it, good point, thanks Kevin. t:thumb:

Dr. Schlegs
09-04-2010, 10:00 PM
Thanks Ige that is very helpful. I always like comparisons. I do like the looks of the 4" downy. I assume the fenders had been cut???? I am planing on cutting the rear fenders, and adding Bushwhackers.

Rzeppa
09-05-2010, 11:32 AM
Shocks are the key to ride quality if using high quality (note multiple leaf pack) springs! Hydraulic (cheap) shocks like Ranch 5000's will dislodge your innerds regardless of what suspension your running!

X a million on that advice! I had 5000s on my 76 with stock suspension, and also on my HZJ75 with - well you all know the suspension on that truck: stock leaf packs with block lift. In both cases the ride was really harsh.

My 71 came with factory shocks, which actually worked pretty well. When I lifted I went with OMEs, which are very nice. I'm not so sure about their longevity though, they seem to be leaking after 6 years of service.

I've never used 9000s myself, but ridden in and driven a number of rigs with them, and if you dial them soft a bit they seem okay.