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View Full Version : Toyota telling dealers to STOP selling cars


corsair23
01-26-2010, 06:04 PM
Wow :eek:

8 models

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=131537&catid=339


WASHINGTON (AP) - Toyota Motor Co. said Tuesday it was suspending U.S. sales of eight recalled vehicle models to fix accelerator pedals that stick, the latest quality problem to confront the world's No. 1 automaker.

As part of the plan, Toyota said it was halting production at five manufacturing facilities for the week of Feb. 1 "to assess and coordinate activities." There are 2.3 million vehicles involved in the recall, which was announced last week.

"This action is necessary until a remedy is finalized," said Bob Carter, Toyota's group vice president and general manager.

The Japanese automaker says the sales suspension includes the 2009-2010 RAV4, the 2009-2010 Corolla, the 2009-2010 Matrix, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2010 Highlander, the 2007-2010 Tundra and the 2008-2010 Sequoia.

It was unclear how long Toyota would suspend production of the vehicles. In an e-mail to employees, company officials said, "we don't know yet how long this pause will last but we will make every effort to resume production soon." Toyota officials did not immediately return phone messages.

Toyota said the company would stop producing vehicles at plants in Indiana, Kentucky, Texas and Canada. They said no other North American Toyota facility would be affected by the decision.

The auto company said the sales suspension would not affect Lexus or Scion vehicles. Toyota said the Prius, Tacoma, Sienna, Venza, Solara, Yaris, 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser and select Camry models, including all Camry hybrids, would remain for sale.

Toyota said last week it was recalling 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. to fix accelerator pedals with mechanical problems that could cause them to become stuck.

That announcement followed a larger recall months earlier of 4.2 million vehicles because of problems with gas pedals becoming trapped under floor mats, causing sudden acceleration. That problem was the cause of several crashes, including some fatalities.


Seems to be a tad bigger than a floor mat issue...

RockRunner
01-26-2010, 06:51 PM
Now they are saying the peddle assembly is the problem. At least they are stepping up and doing more than any other manufacture ever did.

Rock Dog
01-27-2010, 12:41 AM
4runners, FJ cruiser, and Landcruisers don't seem to have the problem..... would hate to see someone wheel off a cliff because of a sticky accelerator pedal:eek:

But i agree, at least they are stepping up to address the problem....

corsair23
01-27-2010, 01:29 AM
Now they are saying the peddle assembly is the problem. At least they are stepping up and doing more than any other manufacture ever did.

I agree...I'm amazed...Recalls are nothing new but to encourage dealers to stop selling certain vehicles and to stop production? Wow...Kudos IMO to Toyota because this won't be cheap for them or the dealers and they seem to be genuinely concerned...Or maybe the lawyers told them to do it :hill:

ElliottB
01-27-2010, 01:49 AM
Obviously a sticky accelerator pedal is a problem BUT.... why wouldn't your first instinct be to turn the car off, put it in neutral, pull the e-brake, etc? It shouldn't happen in the first place, but it also shouldn't be killing car-loads of people.

Hants
01-27-2010, 06:53 AM
I had the same question when the news first broke... why not pop the car in neutral?

DaveInDenver
01-27-2010, 06:59 AM
4runners, FJ cruiser, and Landcruisers don't seem to have the problem..... would hate to see someone wheel off a cliff because of a sticky accelerator pedal:eek:

But i agree, at least they are stepping up to address the problem....
Also don't see the 1991 Hilux on the list. Dodged a bullet on that one. Of course in its 225,000 life I've never personally had it suddenly or even willingly accelerate, much less unexpectantly.

subzali
01-27-2010, 07:56 AM
I heard of a story about a Lexus in California that was drive-by-wire everything (one of the earlier instances of this problem). Everything went wrong - the accelerator was pinned and the computer wouldn't let the driver move the gear selector and for some reason it wouldn't apply the brakes either, it all got recorded on a 911 call, and it was an off-duty police officer who was driving so it wasn't a case of incompetence. Anyway the car went about 120mph until his only choice was to drive it off the road and crash it.

Has anybody ridden a motorcycle that had a stuck throttle cable? Mine stuck once or twice this past summer, and it's unnerving when all of the sudden you're accelerating when you don't want to be - you have to react quickly but it certainly catches you off guard. I'm guessing a lot of people aren't car-savvy enough to make the appropriate response in the short amounts of time they are given.

I imagine the problem is more common with automatics. Imagine accelerating up to a right-hand turn in traffic, and then hitting the brakes to make the turn. It can be hard enough to slow down to a reasonable sharp-turning speed even when the engine is not fighting you to keep accelerating, and I see a lot of people don't leave much margin for error when they're driving. So when that error comes along and you find yourself accelerating through a right-hand turn, you may end up sliding into the other lane of traffic (this just happened to a friend-of-mine's coworker last weekend who got t-boned by someone that did just that).

Luckily my wife's '09 Corolla is a manual so she can just depress the clutch and disengage the driveline.

theboomboom
01-27-2010, 08:58 AM
I heard of a story about a Lexus in California that was drive-by-wire everything (one of the earlier instances of this problem). Everything went wrong - the accelerator was pinned and the computer wouldn't let the driver move the gear selector and for some reason it wouldn't apply the brakes either, it all got recorded on a 911 call, and it was an off-duty police officer who was driving so it wasn't a case of incompetence. Anyway the car went about 120mph until his only choice was to drive it off the road and crash it.

Add to that a push button start, and there really isn't a way to just turn it off either. At first I was suspicious this was a cover for a recall of some other nature, but as complicated as these new vehicles are, they probably couldn't do anything simple to repair this issue without opening a whole 'nother can of worms.

I'm with Dave though, my accelerator pedal attaches to the floor on one end and a steel cable on the other. Only thing that can go wrong there is a PPO installing the wrong size cable ;)

Red_Chili
01-27-2010, 09:05 AM
I heard of a story about a Lexus in California that was drive-by-wire everything (one of the earlier instances of this problem). Everything went wrong - ...
My job is in IT, I love computers, they do things that would be painful for humans to have to take over, they are wonderful.

But not my choice for complete management. I'm with Dave, cables, clutches, and normal ignition switches is the schizz. When computers go wild anything can happen unless there is a failsafe .

Here's a thought: motorcycles have kill switches near the throttle grip. Why don't cars have something similar??

RockRunner
01-27-2010, 09:09 AM
I wonder if this ins't a way for them to save money too?? They shut the line down like GMC did but with positive support and a glowing review by the press. In the meantime they are saving money and the dealers absorb some of the cost.

The dealers save some money since they don't have to use as much staff during the week, not much but some. I wouldn't doubt it if Toyota doesn't help the dealers out after this is all said and done.

So there is my conspiricy theory, feel free to discuss :D

DaveInDenver
01-27-2010, 09:19 AM
Our 4Runner (as are all 120-series platforms AFAIK, FJC, Taco, GX470) was throttle by wire, couldn't tell you what interconnects the tranny/engine might have had. It did require your foot on the brake to shift out of park as I recall, so it must have had a solenoid interlock on that. One thing is for sure the parking brake was 100% mechanical foot operated and I don't think the computer could prevent moving the shifter from drive to neutral. No argument that a sudden acceleration could be stressful but I don't think the car would prevent a drive-to-neutral shift and stomping on the foot brake. Might be hard to do while juggling a coffee, talking on the phone and what-not, though.

Air Randy
01-27-2010, 09:37 AM
[QUOTE=subzali;134887]I heard of a story about a Lexus in California that was drive-by-wire everything (one of the earlier instances of this problem). Everything went wrong - the accelerator was pinned and the computer wouldn't let the driver move the gear selector and for some reason it wouldn't apply the brakes either, it all got recorded on a 911 call, and it was an off-duty police officer who was driving so it wasn't a case of incompetence. Anyway the car went about 120mph until his only choice was to drive it off the road and crash it.QUOTE]

I think this is either an out right internet legend or an exaggeration of fact. The brakes are still fail safe manual hydraulic even if the brake booster and ABS/ESP failed. There is no way for the car to prevent you from pushing the brake pedal down unless something is physically jammed behind it. Plus there is a mechanical emergency brake, he could have turned the ignition off, etc. I do believe the safety interlock could malfunction and prevent the transmission from going into nuetral, and many throttles today are electric (including my diesel truck). Conceptually I'm not a fan of FBW but all of our current generation military and civilian commercial jets are 100% FBW and it seems to be pretty reliable. Thats probably where the technology came from thats in the cars now.

Jacket
01-27-2010, 09:44 AM
Not defending Toyota, but just to be clear there were two different issues that Toyota has faced related to the gas pedal. The first was around floor mats, specifically aftermarket or additional floor mats sliding forward and causing the gas pedal to become lodged in the mat and stuck. But this latest recall involves the pedal itself getting stuck. I don't think that for many folks they understand this difference, and just perceive that Toyota has a slew of ongoing problems with the gas pedal. I've already had several folks at work mention the "Toyota quality problems" to me with a sneer on their face.....

On a lighter note - saw a new 2010 4Runner in the parking lot today. I like it more and more each time I see it, which is something I never felt with the 4th gen.

rover67
01-27-2010, 09:52 AM
[QUOTE=subzali;134887]I heard of a story about a Lexus in California that was drive-by-wire everything (one of the earlier instances of this problem). Everything went wrong - the accelerator was pinned and the computer wouldn't let the driver move the gear selector and for some reason it wouldn't apply the brakes either, it all got recorded on a 911 call, and it was an off-duty police officer who was driving so it wasn't a case of incompetence. Anyway the car went about 120mph until his only choice was to drive it off the road and crash it.QUOTE]

I think this is either an out right internet legend or an exaggeration of fact. The brakes are still fail safe manual hydraulic even if the brake booster and ABS/ESP failed. There is no way for the car to prevent you from pushing the brake pedal down unless something is physically jammed behind it. Plus there is a mechanical emergency brake, he could have turned the ignition off, etc. I do believe the safety interlock could malfunction and prevent the transmission from going into nuetral, and many throttles today are electric (including my diesel truck). Conceptually I'm not a fan of FBW but all of our current generation military and civilian commercial jets are 100% FBW and it seems to be pretty reliable. Thats probably where the technology came from thats in the cars now.


Stopping a car that has lost vacuum because it's at WOT is a really tough task.... especially if it has some power. I've done it a lot since we used to tune cars by loading them up with the brakes at various rpm's and throttle positions. It's amazing how much advantage you loose when the vacuum is gone.

E brakes work great at low speeds, but they overheat very quickly and become useless at Hwy speeds. Again, many times and don't ask why, but if you jam the thing on at high speeds it'll do something and you get a nice out of control spin since the average persons hands have probably left the lever and gone to the wheel to try and save it. If you bring it on slowly going fast they do tend to over heat and not work so well.

try it the next time you are in a rental car ;)

get up to 60 or so, full throttle and pump the brakes so you use up all the vacuum (that's why they stated not to pump the brakes). Keep it at full throttle.. don't back off....

Then try the emergency brake trick. don't just cram it up, but bring it up slowly.

anyways, I can see how it'd happen.

TIMZTOY
01-27-2010, 10:06 AM
Obviously a sticky accelerator pedal is a problem BUT.... why wouldn't your first instinct be to turn the car off, put it in neutral, pull the e-brake, etc? It shouldn't happen in the first place, but it also shouldn't be killing car-loads of people. rember that most of us on here are all car guys, and the majority of drivers on the road are not.. they just use the car as a mense of transportion, and they dont think of this things when there in a state of panic.

Add to that a push button start, and there really isn't a way to just turn it off either. At first I was suspicious this was a cover for a recall of some other nature, but as complicated as these new vehicles are, they probably couldn't do anything simple to repair this issue without opening a whole 'nother can of worms. even with a push button start you still need the key in the ignition (honda s2000 style) these newer bluetooth ones dont you just push the button twice to turn it off ??

and i had a quote up here about toyota steeping up to the plate but it didnt make it for some reason.. the one thing that i do know that set toyota apart from all the other manufacturs is that they will send out a nation wide recall for a stupid $2.99 non safty relaited item that in no way effects there name or repution that no one would even know about. or a massive recall. like this that they'r kinda forced to by not only the media but in this case safty.. toyota treats there customers as #1 like most company used to do 20 years ago. it seams busniess ethnics have lost there ways

SteveH
01-27-2010, 10:21 AM
I watched the new clip of the Konsumer Reports guy stuffing the gas pedal to the floor with his foot, then pumping the brakes repeatedly until the booster was exhausted, and proclaiming: "See - I can't stop the car no matter how hard I push." I can do this with my '78 FJ40 and it won't stop at all.

I have yet to see a real analysis of whether this an electronic problem, or a stuck floor mat issue. Recall the Audi 5000 issue turned out to be related to gas and brake pedal placement (lateral location in the footwell) was really operator error, not an true vehicle deficiency. Car and Driver magazine did a serious study of the Audi problem, and the media pretty much blew off the story after hte initial conclusion.

DaveInDenver
01-27-2010, 11:36 AM
Something to keep in mind about brakes is that most new cars do not have vacuum boosters, the assist is electronic and the controllers for the ABS can vary which hydraulic circuit gets controlled. It can cut pressure to unlock a wheel or apply pressure to slow it down. That is all apart of the vehicle stability controller, which starts and stops wheel spin to correct your orientation.

I also personally had trouble if the computer controlling the ABS/ATAC/VSC messing with the brakes. That was one thing I did not like about that 4Runner was the anti-lock/anti-skid controller was really aggressive at throttle and brake control. Sometimes it would cut power and apply brakes when crossing an icy intersection leaving you vulnerable to a 'T'-bone as you creep through. Push the gas pedal as hard as you want, the fuel controller cut power to where there was zero wheel spin. As a result you'd go through an intersection as 2 MPH with your foot to the floor and the engine idling. It ignored the gas pedal in that case. Vice versa, if the ECU reset or crashed, perfectly possible that the fuel controller could wig out and go WOT with your foot off the pedal. A dirt sensor, solar flare, spilled Coke on the wiring, lots of possible reasons for it.

So I could absolutely see a Lexus getting into a confused state and mucking with the brakes such that you push the pedal as hard as you want and it not doing anything because of the anti-stupid controls kicking in. That happened to me and it really is a disconcerting feeling of having the pedal go to the floor and nothing happening.

Red_Chili
01-27-2010, 11:57 AM
Happened to me on a BMW motorcycle too, with ABS. Just about took out the trash dumpster. That woulda left a mark. And I would not regard myself as a novice motorcycle rider. No matter how hard I applied brake, the brakes did not fully engage on a dirt road.

The option was, disengaging the ABS, which the German engineers kindly provided as an option. You had to stop the bike, hold the brake, I *think* hold the throttle, don't remember, turn off the bike, turn it back on. If the ABS light kept flashing at you, you had succeeded. Repeat every time you turn off the bike and restart.

Sold the bike.

Mind you, ABS saves lots of motor cop lives every year. I get it. I am just not a good candidate given my riding preferences. Dangerous in my case.

corsair23
01-27-2010, 12:04 PM
I'm with Dave though, my accelerator pedal attaches to the floor on one end and a steel cable on the other. Only thing that can go wrong there is a PPO installing the wrong size cable ;)

Although rare, even mechanical linkage can get "stuck"...Case in point was my '84 Subaru wagon. When it would snow and was real cold out, occasionally water would get on the throttle linkage and freeze the accelerator in position. Only happened a couple times but enough to :eek: me out...First time was on E470, heading to DIA and when I went to release the accelerator to slow down at the 470/I70 interchange (before they completed the flyover) the car just kept going...

As for newer cars, even with the push button start/stop aren't they designed so you can't turn them off while in motion? Just saying it seems plausible with newer cars that are almost 100% computer controlled that things could get out of hand...

Jacket
01-27-2010, 12:04 PM
I also personally had trouble if the computer controlling the ABS/ATAC/VSC messing with the brakes. That was one thing I did not like about that 4Runner was the anti-lock/anti-skid controller was really aggressive at throttle and brake control. Sometimes it would cut power and apply brakes when crossing an icy intersection leaving you vulnerable to a 'T'-bone as you creep through. Push the gas pedal as hard as you want, the fuel controller cut power to where there was zero wheel spin. As a result you'd go through an intersection as 2 MPH with your foot to the floor and the engine idling. It ignored the gas pedal in that case. Vice versa, if the ECU reset or crashed, perfectly possible that the fuel controller could wig out and go WOT with your foot off the pedal. A dirt sensor, solar flare, spilled Coke on the wiring, lots of possible reasons for it.



I agree - and it seems to me that the Toyota version is exceptionally bad/aggressive when compared with other vehicles with these systems. Rather than being a "silent helper", the traction control is very much obvious and in your face (or foot) as to how aggressively it cuts power.

The newer Tacomas (and presumably runners) have added a manual on/off switch for the VSC and TRAC systems, which I'm sure came partly because of owner complaints.

Old40Dog
01-28-2010, 01:21 AM
Something to keep in mind about brakes is that most new cars do not have vacuum boosters, the assist is electronic and the controllers for the ABS can vary which hydraulic circuit gets controlled. It can cut pressure to unlock a wheel or apply pressure to slow it down. That is all apart of the vehicle stability controller, which starts and stops wheel spin to correct your orientation.

I also personally had trouble if the computer controlling the ABS/ATAC/VSC messing with the brakes. That was one thing I did not like about that 4Runner was the anti-lock/anti-skid controller was really aggressive at throttle and brake control. Sometimes it would cut power and apply brakes when crossing an icy intersection leaving you vulnerable to a 'T'-bone as you creep through. Push the gas pedal as hard as you want, the fuel controller cut power to where there was zero wheel spin. As a result you'd go through an intersection as 2 MPH with your foot to the floor and the engine idling. It ignored the gas pedal in that case. Vice versa, if the ECU reset or crashed, perfectly possible that the fuel controller could wig out and go WOT with your foot off the pedal. A dirt sensor, solar flare, spilled Coke on the wiring, lots of possible reasons for it.

So I could absolutely see a Lexus getting into a confused state and mucking with the brakes such that you push the pedal as hard as you want and it not doing anything because of the anti-stupid controls kicking in. That happened to me and it really is a disconcerting feeling of having the pedal go to the floor and nothing happening.

Sounds more like a case of safety regulations gone outta control more than anything else. If it was actually a requirement that an individual had to demonstrate the true ability to "drive" a vehicle before being issued a license, then we wouldn't need all of this safety and convenience s**t on a vehicle today go bad.

If the guy could have just reached over and turned the "key off" instead of some stupid convenience button unable to respond when the accelerator stuck they would all be alive today.

If you could still just "pump" your brakes a few times to stop on ice or snow, your car or truck wouldn't leave you sitting helpless and outta control in the middle of the intersection with no power to get you outta there!

Just more examples of government attempting to regulate personal responsibility out of another facit of our daily lives :rant: Hello!

rover67
01-29-2010, 02:37 PM
Intersting read:

http://www.designnews.com/article/446480-Toyota_s_Problem_Was_Unforeseeable.php?nid=4871&rid=2561816

What's also interesting now that I think about it is that Allisons TDI Jetta will cut the throttle if you hit the brakes even if the gas pedal is mashed. Found that one out trying to get the turbo to spool at red lights.

corsair23
01-29-2010, 03:48 PM
Found that one out trying to get the turbo to spool at red lights.

:lmao: - You know, that doesn't surprise me :hill:

Red_Chili
02-03-2010, 10:20 AM
This is looking a lot worse than floormats... the beginning of the article covers government posing... toward the end, they get down to mechanical causes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704259304575043091711640152.html

SRT08BUS
02-03-2010, 01:38 PM
didn't stop a friend of mine!

corsair23
02-09-2010, 05:12 PM
Putting it all into perspective?

Recalling Recent Recalls (http://www.denverpost.com/allewis/ci_14341585)


So the gas pedal is a little sticky.

Why are people freaking out about Toyota?

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Wednesday that people should "stop driving" Toyotas affected by recalls. Later in the day, he apparently calmed down and said this was "obviously a misstatement."

Toyota has been slow to address its problems and has brought much of this hysteria upon itself.

People are now terrorizing themselves with mental images of cars careening out of control. Just last week, though, they were content to give dangerous manufacturing defects nary a thought.

There are so many recalls, it's impossible to recall all the recalls.
Few will remember, for instance, the SlyDog retractable dog leash sold by Dollar General Stores nationwide, until they were recalled in September 2008.

Let's say you drive your Toyota Corolla to the park with your pooch.
Your gas pedal didn't stick. And you're thinking that you just did some really smart shopping at the dollar store, when suddenly the clasp connected to your dog's collar breaks, and the leash snaps back toward your face.

"Facial cuts, a broken tooth, displaced eye lens, and a bruised collar bone," were some of the horrific consequences of this product, according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.
Troll through the commission's website, www.cpsc.gov (http://www.cpsc.gov/), and marvel at some of the really bad things that can happen due to common product defects.

Besides dangerous cars and faulty tires, the world is rife with batteries that overheat, window blinds that strangle, tiny parts that choke infants, and toys coated with lead paint, not to mention tainted foods that can make you puke for days on end.

This is good news for Toyota because eventually, there will be a bigger recall that will make everyone forget about its gas pedal recalls.
Here are some tragic scenarios reported over the past several months that we've already forgotten:

Let's say that instead of driving your potentially defective Toyota, you ride your bike. But it's a Cannondale with a suspension fork made by J.D. Components of Taiwan. The "fork can lose alignment causing the front wheel to turn unexpectedly," the commission reported May 19. "This can cause the rider to lose control of the bicycle and crash."

You've hauled your 2009 FX10 Yamaha snowmobile to the woods with your Toyota Tundra truck without incident. But suddenly, your snowmobile is careering toward a tree. "A bolt in the right front A arm can loosen in the suspension/steering system, resulting in the sudden loss of steering control," the commission reported Jan. 27.

You drive your Toyota Matrix to the archery range. No problem. You're enjoying some target practice with your new Eagle 5 Rifle Crossbow, made in Taiwan. Suddenly, an apple balanced on the head of a small boy standing 80 paces away splits into half. "The trigger mechanism becomes loose after 30 shots," the commission reported Jan. 19 "The crossbow will automatically discharge on its own."

You drive your Toyota Prius to the hardware store and pick up some books: "Lowe's Complete Home Wiring," "Sunset Home Repair Handbook," and a few similar titles. "The books contain errors that could lead consumers to incorrectly install or repair electrical wiring, posing an electrical shock or fire hazard," the commission reported Jan. 8.

You drive your Toyota Rav4 to the ocean for some scuba diving. Your gas pedal didn't stick. But something else did: The gage on your "Cressi Ellipse Black MC5 Regulator." You're down 90 feet and it says you've still got plenty of air to come up. "The inaccurate reading on the gauge poses a drowning hazard to divers," the commission reported Dec. 23.

You drive to the mall and buy a skull-and-crossbones necklace at Spencer Gifts LLC, a chain based in Egg Harbor Township, N.J. "The skull and metal clasp of the necklace contain high levels of lead," the commission warned on Jan. 29. Hey, at least it's shaped like the symbolic warning for poison.

You do not drive your Toyota Avalon to Starbucks. You stay home with your Starbucks Barista Blade Grinder. "The grinder can turn on unexpectedly, posing a laceration hazard," the commission reported June 16.

You stay home to mow the lawn with your liquid-cooled Toro Z Master Z580, made by The Toro Co. of Bloomington, Minn. "The coolant overflow container can become over-pressurized and cause hot coolant to spray on the operator," the commission reported on October 22.

You take your Graco stroller, by Graco Children's Products Inc., of Atlanta, from the back of your Toyota Highlander. You're no longer worried about a sticky gas pedal. You're worried about your child getting sunburned. But suddenly you hear a ghastly shriek. "The hinges on the stroller's canopy pose a fingertip amputation and laceration hazard," the commission reported Jan. 20.

You drive to Home Depot and buy a beige patio umbrella. "The patio umbrella and its pole could tip over and strike consumers," the commission reported May 28.

You safely drive your Toyota Sequoia to the ski slopes, but the bindings on your skis are made by Salomon USA of Ogden, Utah. "The toe component of the ski bindings could fail causing the binding to release unexpectedly," the commission reported Nov. 19. "This could cause the skier to lose control." One broken leg and one injured knee have been reported, alleging defects with certain models.

You drive home in your Toyota Camry for a hot bath in your whirlpool tub made by Crane Plumbing LLC of Dallas. "The drain covers in the tubs can entangle a bather's hair causing the bather's head to be held under water, which can result in drowning," the commission reported June. 23.
Stuff happens. But at least if your Toyota's gas pedal sticks you can hit the brakes or shift into neutral.

Red_Chili
02-10-2010, 10:36 AM
True as that article may be... I don't think it applies in this case.

Read this and tell me something doesn't smell fishy in Tokyo:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704820904575055733096312238.html

It reminds me of when the headgaskets went on my 1990 3.0 4Runner. Had to go back and forth several times with the factory rep. This was despite increasing numbers of complaints on HG failures. They knew. Finally they acknowledged the issue and covered it. Wasn't long after, a recall happened. But they initially wanted me to pay for it, then labor, then half of it, then they covered it.

corsair23
02-10-2010, 11:21 AM
True as that article may be... I don't think it applies in this case.

Read this and tell me something doesn't smell fishy in Tokyo:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704820904575055733096312238.html


:eek:

Wowzers...

I'm still confused though on some things...Maybe we just aren't hearing about the incidents where people were able to handle the acceleration issue but if I'm in my car, and it just takes off on me, my first inclination would be to hit the brakes and give the gas pedal a tap to "unstick" it....Assuming that didn't work then my next inclination would be to shift to neutral and turn the vehicle off.

Is there something in the design of these vehicles that if the computer senses acceleration (unintended or not) that it overrides a persons ability to either brake, shift to neutral, of just shut the vehicle of? I know all too well the negative affects on power steering and braking when a vehicle shuts off (my Durango did this to me several times coming back from Ouray while towing the popup when the PCM was starting to go) but dealing with limited steering and braking is better than zooming down the road at 120 :rolleyes:, assuming the computer isn't overriding one's ability to just shut the vehicle down...

Red_Chili
02-10-2010, 11:45 AM
AFAIK it did interfere. The cop who died with his family in the loaner Lexus at 120mph kept trying to kill the motor. But a) the way to turn off the ignition was to hold the 'Start' button for three seconds (a cue from Microsoft? :lmao:), and b) not knowing that, he kept tapping it to no avail. Not sure if the transmission locked into D in motion or not. The guy was NOT an idiot though. Apparently there is no brake-throttle cutoff, unlike GM models and others.

RIP.

Jacket
02-10-2010, 01:04 PM
FJ40 sighting....x2

XZoBfpm1zHg

rover67
02-10-2010, 01:37 PM
Yikes!

I feel bad for the folks and their families that had to go through that experience.. I don't even know what to say.

Not to sound comedic about the issue (which is starting to look pretty ugly) but a few scenarios:

"Officer, the gas pedal was stuck! I barely got it slowed down in time to stop for you"

or

(bystander) "Marco, quit hammering your truck, you're gonna break a birf!!" (me)"I can't stop!! the gas pedal is stuck! I have to go for it!"

Wait.. im driving an FJ60 with cable throttle on a chevy motor.. nevermind that.


True as that article may be... I don't think it applies in this case.

Read this and tell me something doesn't smell fishy in Tokyo:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704820904575055733096312238.html

It reminds me of when the headgaskets went on my 1990 3.0 4Runner. Had to go back and forth several times with the factory rep. This was despite increasing numbers of complaints on HG failures. They knew. Finally they acknowledged the issue and covered it. Wasn't long after, a recall happened. But they initially wanted me to pay for it, then labor, then half of it, then they covered it.