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View Full Version : Somewhere, a Toyota engineer is laughing at me


Hulk
02-15-2010, 01:00 PM
On Sunday, I installed a new radiator in my 80 as part of the SC install.

There are two ways to remove the radiator:

The first method is to remove just the radiator itself and leave the "frame" in place. To do this, you must remove 4 bolts from the bottom that are barely a 1/2 inch above the frame rail. It's so tight that once I got the front bolts out, my gear wrench was trapped in place by the bolt.

The second method is to remove the radiator with the "frame" attached as one whole piece. In order to do this, you must remove the front grille and one of the headlight assemblies to get to the hidden front nuts that hold the upper part of the frame on each side.

[BEGIN RANT]

THIS IS JUST BAD DESIGN. Do not Toyota engineers think that a radiator is a serviceable item? Do they think that no one will ever want to remove it?

It would have been so simple for them to have welded in a nut and had a bolt holding the upper part of the frame, as they do in the lower mount bracket.

Having to remove the grille and one of the headlights just to get to a single nut on each side is extremely irritating. I told my wife: Somewhere, there is a Toyota engineer who is still snickering over the hurdles he has put in place for everyone who needs to remove the radiator.

I have removed radiators from a half dozen cars, and this was by far the hardest, least accessible of the bunch. What a load of crap.

I can't tell you how PISSED I was the entire day working on this. What should have been a simple R&R job took me much longer than expected.

[END RANT]

I removed the radiator using the first method, which was a PITA but still within the realm of reason. However, the new Toyota radiator had all new foam that went from radiator to frame and back again, and I didn't want to peel it off when I installed it. So I decided to install the whole thing as one piece. Big mistake.

I should have just made some clean cuts and separated the frame from the radiator. This would have left the foam in place on each part. Then I could have installed the frame first by itself. (It's easy to get to the hidden nuts holding the frame when the radiator has been removed and you don't have to remove the grille/headlight).

I'll remember to do this next time. Of course, the first radiator was still working at 14 years, so it will probably be a while before I have to touch it again.

Grrrrrr.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Squishy!
02-15-2010, 01:49 PM
Yea I hear ya. I've only had to do one of those in my short time at Burt, but I don't remember taking out the grill or headlight. I *think* there is a way to sneak out the bolts with *just* the right tool combo. Don't remember too clearly though.

corsair23
02-15-2010, 02:00 PM
I've read that R&Ring the radiator is a PITA on the 80s...I was hoping it was an urban myth :rolleyes: - What radiator did you end up going with?

Glad you got it done...Sort of like the PHH...Once you get it done you are glad it is over and hope to never have to do it again :thumb:

As for the foam on the radiator...Mine has been long gone for as long as I've owned the truck. I tried a strip of weather stripping (rectangular shaped) that you put around doors etc. That worked for awhile until it slipped and I assume got eaten by the fan :doh:

Now I'm using some stuff called "backing rod (http://www.google.com/products?q=backing+rod&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=RbV5S7KdMpLANrinuLQH&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CB4QrQQwAw)" that I had lying around...Can't remember what size I have but it is a tight fit and it has stayed in place for about a year now :hill:...Apparently having the foam in place aids in cooling by forcing air through the radiator vs. over it but :confused:

Hulk
02-15-2010, 02:35 PM
I've read that R&Ring the radiator is a PITA on the 80s...I was hoping it was an urban myth :rolleyes: - What radiator did you end up going with?

Jeff, I bought the 93-94 Toyota radiator. It's 3-row brass rather than 2-row aluminum. It's questionable as to whether it actually cools better but it does hold more volume. One thing that was disappointing is that the top and bottom tanks are still plastic.

Justin, I could see that it might be possible to do this w/o removing the headlight (removing the grille is easy). All I have is a 3/8" universal joint. I was thinking that if I had had a 1/4" universal joint or some of those wiggler sockets, I might have been able to do this without removing the headlight.

This is all I have:
17104

coax
02-15-2010, 02:47 PM
I could see that it might be possible to do this w/o removing the headlight (removing the grille is easy).

When I replaced my radiator is did it this way. A bit of an exercise in frustration. I ended up getting a 1/4 deep socket on the bolt, putting the little screwdriver adapter on the end, and then turning that with a very tiny open end wrench. No need to remove the headlights, just a need for lots of patience and turning the bolt very little each turn.

powderpig
02-15-2010, 04:02 PM
I never remove the grill or the head lights. But I do remove the latch and the cross member that is in front of the radiator. This allows me to remove the two bolts that hold the raditior in with a ratching gear wrench. This is usually a 15 min operation for me and then 15 min to replace it. This is a hold over from the FJ60's and the design is very similar to the 80 in this regard.
I am sorry to hear you had this problem matt. I have describe this on Mud a couple of times for people over the years. 10mm socket and 12 mm socket on a 1/4 drive is all I use to remove the cross member. Then a 12 mm gear wrench to remove the nuts.
I do agree that Toyota could of done it differently, and describe the procedure differently in the book. Some times it take sitting back and taking a different approach.
Good luck with the rest of this.

Squishy!
02-15-2010, 04:25 PM
Justin, I could see that it might be possible to do this w/o removing the headlight (removing the grille is easy). All I have is a 3/8" universal joint. I was thinking that if I had had a 1/4" universal joint or some of those wiggler sockets, I might have been able to do this without removing the headlight.

Sorry Matt that is a huge frustration.

I never remove the grill or the head lights. But I do remove the latch and the cross member that is in front of the radiator. This allows me to remove the two bolts that hold the raditior in with a ratching gear wrench. This is usually a 15 min operation for me and then 15 min to replace it. This is a hold over from the FJ60's and the design is very similar to the 80 in this regard.

I believe this is the way I did it too, but I was fortunate enough to have lots of experience around me to point me in the right direction. x2 on a better design. Wanna weld in some nuts to the front clip of your 80? :hill:

Hulk
02-15-2010, 04:48 PM
I never remove the grill or the head lights. But I do remove the latch and the cross member that is in front of the radiator. This allows me to remove the two bolts that hold the raditior in with a ratching gear wrench. This is usually a 15 min operation for me and then 15 min to replace it. This is a hold over from the FJ60's and the design is very similar to the 80 in this regard.

I didn't think about removing the top piece. That's what you're talking about, right? I pulled that piece off when I did the Slee wiring harness upgrade a few years ago.


Wanna weld in some nuts to the front clip of your 80? :hill:

Naw, it's done. I'll probably not need to touch it again for many years. Thanks, man!

powderpig
02-15-2010, 05:40 PM
Yes Matt that was the piece I am talking about.

nuclearlemon
02-15-2010, 05:41 PM
While it wasn't pleasant, i don't remember it being all that bad, but i was right there with you....i helped kevin do his lift this weekend. took a 3/4 (also known as really f'n big) air gun just to get the control arm bolts loose. some japanese engineer had the bright idea of putting the master cylinder right over the left shock mount. plus they use studs on the shocks, which are hideous. couldn't get the mounting plates on the rear shocks loose (ih8rust), so we had to cut those shocks out.....so we were cursing the engineers too;)

Rzeppa
02-16-2010, 06:51 PM
Wow! I know 80s are fast and smooth and quiet and kick patootie off road, but there are times I like how quick and easy it is to do things like a radiator R&R on a 40 series.

timmbuck2
02-16-2010, 08:29 PM
On Sunday, I installed a new radiator in my 80 as part of the SC install.

There are two ways to remove the radiator:

The first method is to remove just the radiator itself and leave the "frame" in place. To do this, you must remove 4 bolts from the bottom that are barely a 1/2 inch above the frame rail. It's so tight that once I got the front bolts out, my gear wrench was trapped in place by the bolt.

The second method is to remove the radiator with the "frame" attached as one whole piece. In order to do this, you must remove the front grille and one of the headlight assemblies to get to the hidden front nuts that hold the upper part of the frame on each side.


That really sucks Matt, sorry to hear how bad it was...I would have probably thrown a few tools. :)

Of course there is a 3rd method.....just pay :robbie: :D

timmbuck2
02-16-2010, 08:30 PM
Wow! I know 80s are fast and smooth and quiet and kick patootie off road, but there are times I like how quick and easy it is to do things like a radiator R&R on a 40 series.

Don't forget the espresso maker and ice cream machine....

:D

sleeoffroad
02-17-2010, 06:49 AM
While it wasn't pleasant, i don't remember it being all that bad, but i was right there with you....i helped kevin do his lift this weekend. took a 3/4 (also known as really f'n big) air gun just to get the control arm bolts loose.

You did loosen the bolt and not the not on the front (Opposite for the rear of the arm) , correct? They are locked down nuts that have serrations that bite into the metal. So you have to loosen the bolt side.

As for radiator, can't remember it being that bad. Couple of years ago I did it in the Slickrock camp ground. If you follow the book it is a pain, but if you go the shortcut route like Robbie suggested it is not bad.

Hulk
02-17-2010, 09:12 AM
Of course there is a 3rd method.....just pay :robbie: :D

Always a great option, but I'm in the for the learning too. I want to know how the whole thing operates.

As for radiator, can't remember it being that bad. Couple of years ago I did it in the Slickrock camp ground. If you follow the book it is a pain, but if you go the shortcut route like Robbie suggested it is not bad.

I'm sure it will be easier on me the next time. I did search on Mud and found a bunch of weak threads with conflicting descriptions of what method people used. It was not much help, so I forged ahead on my own.