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View Full Version : Sythetic Winch Rope + Mag Chloride


DaveInDenver
02-22-2010, 08:00 AM
So I'm very close to getting a winch in my truck. This being corsair23's XD9000 that's being replaced with a proper sized for an 80 15K, it has synthetic rope.

My truck is parked on the street, driven to work every day, up to Loveland whenever I can, etc, etc. I noticed this morning (actually it irritates me greatly) that my truck is really, really, really, really dirty.

There is mag chloride in places that I'm pretty sure have never seen a car wash wand. My front bumper has a pretty thick (I'd say 0.125" at least) layer of brownish red dirt/ice/mag chloride on places on the inside to go along with the 0.25" layer all over the front. When we got home last night from skiing the spaces between the slider supports were almost full in a couple of spots. That's 30" of ice and dirt. Wowza!

So am I making a mistake in putting a winch into this daily driver, which is not an expression but is really driven daily all year. I am constantly fighting corrosion of the turn signals connectors in my ARB and the head lights are cracked from rocks and ice. The light bulb in my head went off this morning that, duh, I'll bet that's gonna be bad for my fancy new(ish) winch and high dollar rope.

I was planning on nylon rollers instead of an aluminum hawse partially because of this. I used aluminum to fabricate my front license plate bracket and that has reacted mildly with the stuff. It's stained enough that I'm pretty sure a fairlead being pelted with rocks and mag chloride would end up being cratered badly and I don't want roughness on the throat of the fairlead from the probable pitting. I am planning to make a front plate holder that clips on the rollers and I think will help keep some grime from working into the winch and rope, but this crap is uber pervasive.

Thoughts?

One thing I think is in my favor is that plastics are much less reactive to mag chloride than zinc. So stock winch rope probably would fair worse than anything synthetic.

RockRunner
02-22-2010, 08:33 AM
I think you should sell your winch to me that way you don't have to worry about it.

DaveInDenver
02-22-2010, 08:39 AM
I think you should sell your winch to me that way you don't have to worry about it.
I have not yet bought it, so that is a real possibility. The thought to pass on it crossed my mind since I also do not have the alternator and battery to deal with a winch. I've made it to 38 years using a Hi-Lift to get me back on snowy roads, what's a couple more years?

nakman
02-22-2010, 08:42 AM
I turned my license plate into a flip-down door for this reason, the first defense from debris from the front. Granted stuff can and will still get back up in there, but at least it's possible to protect the fairlead & line from head on. I also like how the winch is under the top plate of the ARB, and above the skid plate below- something the 80 series ARB doesn't have at all, so I feel like the truck winch is considerably more protected than the 80's winch.. am presuming your ARB is similar.

Convert made a pretty cool snap-on canvas cover for his, a lot like a soft top.. you may want to stare at his then come up with something similar. But at the end of the day, having a winch is far cooler than worrying about line corrosion, so my opinion is go for it anyway and not worry so much- get an over-rated synthetic line to compensate for potential weakness down the road.

leiniesred
02-22-2010, 08:44 AM
My M8000 is what? 15 years old? I bought it used and the motor can was a little rusty then. I guess it is a little bit more rusty now, but not much.

My winch is fully exposed on the front of the truck. An ARB bumper would probably keep most of the salt spray off of the winch.

My truck lives out-of-doors and only gets driven in bad weather really.
The rockstomper amsteel blue rope is at least 4 years old Maybe 5-6? and gets abused annually on the snow runs. In fact, I used it last weekend to pull an FZJ80 >150'.

The solinoid box is also out on the bumper. Everything is currently covered in winter road goo just like your truck. My goo is from a camping trip last weekend.

End result of my experience: Winch has worked fine. every time. Despite living on the front of my truck and probably on the front of someone's Jeep before that...for most of it's life.

I say mount it up and get a winch cover for it if you are really worried about the impact of all the salt.

but...reciever mount winch is probably the way to go. You can leave all that extra weight at home when you drive to work or go on a weekend highway ski trip. You can also keep it in the garage or in the bed protected from the elements until you NEED it.

rover67
02-22-2010, 09:01 AM
Man, I kinda never thought about it.

I drive my truck every day also (I think I put close to 25k miles on it last year) and it stays VERY dirty. Half of my nylon cover for the outer wrap on the synthetic line is missing so the actualy synthetic rope gets the brunt of most things. Occasionally I notice that the winch, line, and half the bumper are covered in a thick mag chloride ice mix and thing "damn, that'd be a bi*ch to use if I needed it" and I keep walking.

A few times I have pulled cable(rope) and have kinda peeled it's frozen self of of itself.

So far so good.

We pulled HARD with it on the snow run, stalled the winch a few times and overheated it once. Still no issues.

My setup is not as old as Rudy's but it's already seen a few winters I guess and everything seems fine.

Uncle Ben
02-22-2010, 09:14 AM
Man, I kinda never thought about it.

I drive my truck every day also (I think I put close to 25k miles on it last year) and it stays VERY dirty. Half of my nylon cover for the outer wrap on the synthetic line is missing so the actualy synthetic rope gets the brunt of most things. Occasionally I notice that the winch, line, and half the bumper are covered in a thick mag chloride ice mix and thing "damn, that'd be a bi*ch to use if I needed it" and I keep walking.

A few times I have pulled cable(rope) and have kinda peeled it's frozen self of of itself.

So far so good.

We pulled HARD with it on the snow run, stalled the winch a few times and overheated it once. Still no issues.

My setup is not as old as Rudy's but it's already seen a few winters I guess and everything seems fine.

Slight hijack but syth is very easy to loosen and remove the thimble and slip on new sleeve! Buy sleeve in a color (even camo or maybe Sponge Bob) of you choice by the foot at McGuckins!

rover67
02-22-2010, 09:15 AM
Slight hijack but syth is very easy to loosen and remove the thimble and slip on new sleeve! Buy sleeve in a color (even camo or maybe Sponge Bob) of you choice by the foot at McGuckins!

I know I know! I need to do it...

Ok, tonight i'll go get more tube nylon and do it :)

RockRunner
02-22-2010, 09:18 AM
I have not yet bought it, so that is a real possibility. The thought to pass on it crossed my mind since I also do not have the alternator and battery to deal with a winch. I've made it to 38 years using a Hi-Lift to get me back on snowy roads, what's a couple more years?


I had spoken to Jeff about it and he said you had first dibs on it and if you passed and he was still selling that I would be up. No big deal, I have a winch now but want a lower profile one and Jeffs would suit me just fine.

Uncle Ben
02-22-2010, 09:28 AM
I have not yet bought it, so that is a real possibility. The thought to pass on it crossed my mind since I also do not have the alternator and battery to deal with a winch. I've made it to 38 years using a Hi-Lift to get me back on snowy roads, what's a couple more years?

Dave, winches come up on Craigslist often! I bought the XP9 Superwinch that I put on Wild Rice about a year ago for $300. Some new stickers from Superwinch and a little elbow grease along with some Red Hammerite and it looks brand new. Most winches rarely get used so used ones are a great deal!

Bikeman
02-22-2010, 09:52 AM
Why not use wire rope and cover the winch? I covered mine with black heavy-mil plastic sheeting with some bumgees.

I could not be without a winch after having the past 3 vehicles with them.

BTW, Christo used a 8000 Lb winch on the shortbus:D.

DaveInDenver
02-22-2010, 12:40 PM
Why not use wire rope and cover the winch? I covered mine with black heavy-mil plastic sheeting with some bumgees.
After a couple cups of coffee my brain cells started firing. I might be remembering it wrong, that magnesium chloride does not corrode galvanized steel as bad as NaCl, so this might be OK.

BTW, if anyone wants to see what CDOT said about the matter:

http://www.dot.state.co.us/publications/PDFFiles/MagAutoCor.pdf

corsair23
02-22-2010, 12:48 PM
Dave,

You worry more than me, and that's saying something :lmao:

Don't forget, the synthetic rope on the XD9000 has two sections of the nylon rope cover on it that if you spool the rope in correctly covers up the 1st layer of the rope 100% :) - I did that for UV protection but hopefully it helps with Mag Chloride protection as well :confused:

The other option is we can throw 90' of 7/16" wire rope on there (assuming it will fit) or 150' of 5/16" wire rope from my M8274 and I'll throw the synthetic on the M8274.

Another option is a cover...The Warn covers won't work because the winch mounts feet forward instead of down. But there are companies that make them or you can make your own.

The good news is, the synthetic rope hasn't seen much sunshine OR mag chloride in about 2 years :hill:

DaveInDenver
02-22-2010, 01:07 PM
Looks like reading a bit more about the studies of corrosion of mag chloride often metal samples are suspended with nylon fishing line. Check mark in favor if synthetics.

Second, I had another a-ha moment looking outside at lunch. The city plow truck drove down Peoria and guess of what the tank in back holding the mag chloride was made?

Plastic!

So I looked that up, most likely polyethylene, which is one of the recommended materials for holding mag chloride. Duh.

Guess what, synthetic rope is made typically from materials like Dyneema. Which is UHMW, which is ultra high molecular weight polyethylene! So concludes todays chemistry lesson, crisis averted. Whew.

http://www.dyneema.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_molecular_weight_polyethylene

BTW, does not change my concern about aluminum and so I'm sticking with plastic fairlead rollers instead of aluminum...





P.S., sorry Tom.

corsair23
02-22-2010, 02:37 PM
Dude, you crack me up :hill:

nakman
02-22-2010, 02:46 PM
Woo Hoo! Plastics FTW!! :bowdown:

Uncle Ben
02-22-2010, 03:18 PM
Looks like reading a bit more about the studies of corrosion of mag chloride often metal samples are suspended with nylon fishing line. Check mark in favor if synthetics.

Second, I had another a-ha moment looking outside at lunch. The city plow truck drove down Peoria and guess of what the tank in back holding the mag chloride was made?

Plastic!

So I looked that up, most likely polyethylene, which is one of the recommended materials for holding mag chloride. Duh.

Guess what, synthetic rope is made typically from materials like Dyneema. Which is UHMW, which is ultra high molecular weight polyethylene! So concludes todays chemistry lesson, crisis averted. Whew.

http://www.dyneema.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_molecular_weight_polyethylene

BTW, does not change my concern about aluminum and so I'm sticking with plastic fairlead rollers instead of aluminum...





P.S., sorry Tom.

There is sumtin wrong witchu man!

DaveInDenver
02-22-2010, 03:56 PM
I should have added...

:doh:

RockRunner
02-22-2010, 03:58 PM
No worries, I have a winch now just want a faster on and one with a remote box. I have been looking on CL and found a couple but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Bruce Miller
02-22-2010, 04:17 PM
Fairlead rollers should be made from virgin teflon. If you research it a bit, Dave, I think you'll find that teflon will survive chemical abuse as well as the heat generated between the fairlead and the synthetic rope during the winching process.

Uncle Ben
02-22-2010, 04:19 PM
Fairlead rollers should be made from virgin teflon. If you research it a bit, Dave, I think you'll find that teflon will survive chemical abuse as well as the heat generated between the fairlead and the synthetic rope during the winching process.

Sure....I'll take two sets! :lmao: ;)

Jacket
02-22-2010, 05:03 PM
BTW, does not change my concern about aluminum and so I'm sticking with plastic fairlead rollers instead of aluminum...

P.S., sorry Tom.

I'm using these - unfortunately they are a bit (more?) susceptible to damage from rocks. Otherwise great with the synth rope.

http://www.winchline.com/images-products/Viking-Rollers.gif

DaveInDenver
02-22-2010, 05:39 PM
I'm using these - unfortunately they are a bit (more?) susceptible to damage from rocks. Otherwise great with the synth rope.

http://www.winchline.com/images-products/Viking-Rollers.gif
Yup, Viking's are the ones I was considering.

corsair23
02-23-2010, 12:33 AM
Yup, Viking's are the ones I was considering.

I can't say enough good about Viking/Winchline.com - I ordered my 7/16" synthetic rope from them and despite a "hiccup" in the order they were on top of things and provided great customer service...Talk to Thor

I sent Thor an email to pass along that we'd love to have them donate a CM10 raffle prize :cool: (maybe someone from the CM Committee could follow up with them)...Not sure we've ever given away a winch line or similar item :thumb:

wesintl
02-23-2010, 10:12 AM
don't worry.. i'm sure in 5 or 10 years that mag cloride will wear through the tub on the cdot trucks and they'll spend millions upgrading them.

DaveInDenver
02-23-2010, 10:15 AM
don't worry.. i'm sure in 5 or 10 years that mag cloride will wear through the tub on the cdot trucks and they'll spend millions upgrading them.
This is a huge problem, seriously. CDOT trucks and roads and bridges corroding due to the way liquid mag chloride leeches into everything and is harder to wash off.

Caribou Sandstorm
02-23-2010, 10:59 AM
Jeff, thanks for the CM request to Thor. I will follow up. I had already sent him an e-mail but did not hear back. So it is actually great that you mentioned it again.

Last year Robbie and I asked Thor to donate something and he donated a snatch strap? 15 foot super thick white rope? Ace one it from the FJCruiser crowd.

I also have the blue 80' synthetic line from Thor, he sent me a hat after my order, just because I asked. He is a super cool guy.

Little known fact..Thor's reason for getting into Synthetic lines is derived from his family's fishing supply business in Iceland or Greenland, I always get confused...The Master pull guy is from the same region, was a business partner of Thor's and his family owned the boats that Thor's family sold the fishing lines to....

So if you wander just how strong your synthetic lines are? Thor says the open sea with miles of line out, is a much tougher customer then your 5000 pound rig will ever be..

Rzeppa
02-26-2010, 05:05 PM
Don't worry about synthetic rope and mag chloride! Synth rope is made of UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene). This is among the most chemically inert substances known to man. In chemical labs, the worst of the worst is stored and decanted in PE. For example, PE is about the only thing you can use for HF (hydroflouric acid) - the stuff eats through normal lab glassware! It will also hold up well against aromatic HCs, such as gasoline and various petroleum solvents.

As was previously noted, mag chloride is stored and dispensed from CDOT trucks in PE tanks. And as was previously noted, those tanks will last far longer than the trucks they are carried on.

FWIW, my synth rope has seen plenty of mag chloride and conventional NaCl and is now in the midst of it's 4th winter, and is doing much better than the GAC it replaced. Synth is way superior to GAC in so many ways!