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Romer
02-22-2010, 10:46 PM
Interesting Battery problem. I had a Yellow top optima that was 4 years old. I heard about the Deka AGM group 31 Batteries Blems and bought 3. Two for the trailer and 1 for the Landcruiser.

I have a Sears Die Hard Platinum as my backup battery with a Hellroaring Dual Battery system. All loads are tied to the primary battery and the backup battery is used to jump the primary when needed.

I put the new Deka in and after a few days the truck wouldn’t start and I had to jump it using the backup battery. I checked all the wiring and found no issues so I swapped it with one of the the other Deka Blems I bought.

The second Deka Blem did the same thing. I contacted Hellroaring and we went through all the measurements to ensure the Hellroaring system was functioning properly. I then placed a circuit tester between the ground lug and the ground cable. The light was on faintly and when I pulled the radio fuse it went out altogether.

So I switched the Hellroaring system to off and parked it while I went on vacation for a week. The battery measured 13.3V when I left and 8.6V when I got back 7 days later

So I inserted a current meter between the Ground lug and cable and after the door closed and ign light went off, I measured 56mA. Pulling the radio fuse, I confirmed that 50mA of this is the Scion Radio. I also verified the Hellroaring system wasnt drawing anything. Researching on line showed this to be a normal draw and should not draw down a Deka battery like this. Calculating it out, 56mA consumes about 1.34 AH per day. For 7 Days, that would be 9.5AH of capacity. If that is all the capacity the battery had, it would drain it. For a group 31 battery at 100 AH, that would be less than 10% of the capacity and should not be close to being drained. Unless, the starting charge was only at the 10% level.

Thinking the alternator should have adequately charge it. I have been on several 30 minute plus drives.

In any case, I charged it overnight using a trickle charger and I will see if that makes a difference.

If it was just one battery I would say it was the battery. The fact that it happened with two of the Blems makes me pause.

Over the weekend, I will likely swap another battery in there and see what happens. I have the 5 year old lifeline I pulled out of the trailer.

Hensley said I could bring it back and they would help me. Wont have the time to make it there this week.

Anyone have any issues with the Blems they bought?

treerootCO
02-22-2010, 11:22 PM
Mine isn't a blem but I can report I have had zero issues with it so far. I used it on the trailer and winched with it probably 30 times without charging it. I recently put it in the 80 and charged it with the alternator. Having lunch with Christo the other day, he mentioned the Odysseys he carries now are AGM and the rep reported that AGM batteries need to be conditioned with a charger that has an AGM setting. According to the rep, an alternator doesn't charge the battery correctly for an AGM. The solution is to recondition an AGM with the right charger. I still need to ask the rep how often this needs to be done but I do have an AGM charger and I have used it once so far. The one Christo sells is $100 I think.

This is the charger I used:
17237

Battery Charger, 10/6/2 Amp; 12 volt; Automatic; Bench
Product Line: NAPA Battery Chargers
Part Number: NBC 85510
Price:
Price
Unit
:
:
74.99
Each
Availability:
Available Now

Warranty Warranty PDF
Attributes Battery Charger amp Rating : 10/6/2 Amp
Battery Charger Automatic or Manual : Automatic
Battery Charger Type : Bench
Battery Charger Volt Rating : 12 volt
Battery Charger Grade : DIY
Battery Charger Height : 3 7/8"
Battery Charger Length : 8 3/8"
Battery Charger Timer Type : Automatic
Battery Charger Width : 11 1/2"
Cable Gauge : 18
Cable Length : 72
Contain Circuit Breaker Protection : Yes
Contain Cooling Fan : Yes
Contain Electronic Polarity Protection : Yes
Contain Meter or LED Indicator : LED Indicator
Rated For Outdoor Use : No
Type Batteries Battery Charger Charges : Lead Acid/AGM

jacdaw
02-22-2010, 11:25 PM
I have the Hellroaring setup to install in the next few weeks and a Sears Oddysey as the backup. I wonder, is my Deltran charger the right kind for AGM?

treerootCO
02-22-2010, 11:27 PM
I have the Hellroaring setup to install in the next few weeks and a Sears Oddysey as the backup. I wonder, is my Deltran charger the right kind for AGM?

The charger will have an AGM setting if it is the right kind. The picture is crappy but the second light down on the right says "AGM".

jacdaw
02-22-2010, 11:32 PM
Thanks Mike, I noticed in the specs of your charger that it specifies AGM and lead acid. I'm looking forward to what you find out from the Rep on how often it should be conditioned. I will use my AGM for only one purpose: to run my dialysis machine at night while camping. So this is really good, timely info for me. I may have a brand new AGM for sale if it needs frequent conditioning.:(

sleeoffroad
02-23-2010, 06:51 AM
We are stocking Odessy batteries now and got an education from the people that sell them. The alternator is only a "maintainer" and there to charge a wet cell battery up after the minute draw of starting the vehicle or the maintain the draws associated with operating the vehicle.

AGM's require a certain charge profile, one that a alternator does not do. So to get the max life out of them, one need to condition and charge them after you have abused them. This is done with a charger that is set up for them. The Odessy 25 amp charger is about $180 or so. They do have smaller ones as well. We are looking into which ones we will stock.

Here is the more technical stuff
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/chargers.html

jacdaw
02-23-2010, 06:59 AM
Thanks Christo! I just copied this of the Deltran/Battery-Tender site. Looks like I am okay. :whew:

Trickle chargers are simply not capable of regulating the output voltage applied to a battery as the battery ages, or if a different battery with different characteristics is connected to the trickle charger’s output terminals. The Battery Tender Jr. is capable of charge maintenance on all lead acid battery types, including both AGM and GEL cells.

RECHARGING AGM BATTERIES: The primary difference between these 2 chargers is that the Battery Tender Plus was specifically designed to accommodate the charging requirements of the new, Absorbed Glass Matte (AGM) style batteries. To achieve that goal, it was necessary to modify the absorption charge mode in the following way. The Battery Tender switches to float mode when the charge current drops to 0.5 amps. The Battery Tender Plus switches to float mode when the charge current drops to 0.1 amps. The result is that for an extended period of time, not to exceed 8 hours, the Battery Tender Plus output voltage will be held at a constant voltage that is significantly higher than the float voltage.

Romer
02-23-2010, 07:12 AM
Good info. The charger I have has an AGM setting and I charged it the other night. I'll see if that makes a difference

Christo - did they tell you how often you should do a charge with the AGM charger?

Although, My backup battery is an Odyssey (Sears DH Platinum) and I have not had an issue with it maintaining it's charge.

Red_Chili
02-23-2010, 07:16 AM
Interesting. That coincides with my experience with Optima Yellow-Tops. To recap, I used the pair to do some welding on the winch point on Jenny Creek where the drift always forms. Did a fair amount of driving and thought little of it after that. Then I let the truck sit for a couple months, and went to start it - both batteries dead.

I left them on my 6A, then 2A, charger for over a week, fired right up, and have had no issues since. I wonder if that is why Optimas have a bad rep with some users, but work great for others? Hmmm...

I have a couple battery monitors and I need to install them and do a writeup (have not forgotten, Chris!).

Romer
02-23-2010, 08:20 AM
I did find this, They were the last on the pallett so I wonder how long they sat there. If it doesn't maintain charge after being charged on the AGM setting, I am going to go back there to return them.

"False" Capacity

A battery can meet the voltage tests for being at full charge, yet be much lower than it's original capacity. If plates are damaged, sulfated, or partially gone from long use, the battery may give the appearance of being fully charged, but in reality acts like a battery of much smaller size. This same thing can occur in gelled cells if they are overcharged and gaps or bubbles occur in the gel. What is left of the plates may be fully functional, but with only 20% of the plates left... Batteries usually go bad for other reasons before reaching this point, but it is something to be aware of if your batteries seem to test OK but lack capacity and go dead very quickly under load.

nakman
02-23-2010, 08:20 AM
Both of my Exide Orbitals were close to dead after 2 weeks of no activity in the 80. The each measured about 10.5 volts.. however somehow when I combined them the truck started. Now my main one is 12.3 after sitting for a bit (normal) and my backup one is 11.9.. after some highway time hopefully the second one gets back into the 12's..

I am wondering about drains too- will poke around some this weekend. The fridge plug has an LED in it, but that can't pull much right? I do have a Scion head unit.

jacdaw
02-23-2010, 08:26 AM
Ken, sitting on the bottom of the pallet, your battery had no load on it so I don't think the plates are sulfated, unless there is an internal short -- and I suppose that's possible if it was smacked around in the store waiting for you to buy it.I did find this, They were the last on the pallett so I wonder how long they sat there. If it doesn't maintain charge after being charged on the AGM setting, I am going to go back there to return them.

"False" Capacity

A battery can meet the voltage tests for being at full charge, yet be much lower than it's original capacity. If plates are damaged, sulfated, or partially gone from long use, the battery may give the appearance of being fully charged, but in reality acts like a battery of much smaller size. This same thing can occur in gelled cells if they are overcharged and gaps or bubbles occur in the gel. What is left of the plates may be fully functional, but with only 20% of the plates left... Batteries usually go bad for other reasons before reaching this point, but it is something to be aware of if your batteries seem to test OK but lack capacity and go dead very quickly under load.

Red_Chili
02-23-2010, 08:51 AM
FAIK batteries sulfate from just sitting, and discharging internally, no?
That has been my experience with motorcycle batteries through the years.

Romer
02-23-2010, 09:08 AM
Both of my Exide Orbitals were close to dead after 2 weeks of no activity in the 80. The each measured about 10.5 volts.. however somehow when I combined them the truck started. Now my main one is 12.3 after sitting for a bit (normal) and my backup one is 11.9.. after some highway time hopefully the second one gets back into the 12's..

I am wondering about drains too- will poke around some this weekend. The fridge plug has an LED in it, but that can't pull much right? I do have a Scion head unit.


To give you something to compare to

Disconnecting the ground wire and placing a voltmeter between the ground cable and ground terminal;

after closing the door, the current draw was 130mA, then after time (less than 30 seconds) it went to 56mA. I figured out this was the light on the ignition key

The hellroaring (in the off position was 1.2mA)
There was about 4mA of other draw through the electronics I did not track down.
The Scion Head unit is about 50mA

My truck can sit for a week as it's not my DD anymore. Over the last two years I have never had a problem even when it sat for a month while I was in Australia or 3 weeks when we were in Europe. Started right up.

Now, after 2 days, I hear it groan and start, after 5 days it doesnt even crank. Maybe it wasn't probably set up.

DaveInDenver
02-23-2010, 10:05 AM
FAIK batteries sulfate from just sitting, and discharging internally, no?
That has been my experience with motorcycle batteries through the years.
Not technically, doesn't matter why it's discharging. A stored battery will experience sulfonation no different than what it would in normal discharging use, although it will happen faster if the battery is stored below fully charged. It's a discharge current phenomenon, so lowering voltage and increasing internal resistance yields accelerating self discharge current. But the chemical reaction of a discharging lead acid battery produces lead sulfate (PbSo4) and water and that is reversed during charge, so all batteries are constantly sulfonating when they are not charging.

The problem is not that lead sulfate is produced, though, but that in an unused battery it is left undisturbed and begins to crystallize. This crystallization of the PbSO4 is what is usually called 'battery sulfation' generically. In crystal form PbSO4 is not conductive and tends to clog the plates or mat. This is very temperature related, happens faster in warm temperatures. Don't mistake this for freezing of the electrolyte, which is a different problem.

Under normal use you don't put them in discharge long enough for crystallization to occur. But you can sulfinate a battery in your truck if you chronically undercharge. It will probably be slower and less pervasive. This is the charge profile that Christo mentions, AGM batteries want to see a different charge than flooded lead acid that our old junk is designed to charge, so a periodic restoration is important. You can usually repair mild crystallization with restoration charging that produces enough current, e.g. an equalization charge. But if left long enough not even an equalization will convert hard crystal PbSO4.

The main reason that some people leave dead Optimas uncharged and are fine and others don't is temperature, crystal growth is discouraged. Ideally you would store batteries just above freezing. This is also IMVHO why some people hate Optimas and others don't, storage by the distributor and vendor. If you buy a 6 month old battery that has been sitting in a hot warehouse it might already be ruined when you put it in. It's just chemistry and being relatively higher cost, AGM type batteries move less quickly than cheapies. Say Auto Zone sells 5 times the number of $75 generics for one $150 Optima, they are generally going to be older and have spent more time sitting, discharging. Buy from a higher volume dealer (like Slee, who I suspect moves a lot more high dollar batteries or at least a reputable dealer who periodically charges his stock) and watch manufacturing dates.

DaveInDenver
02-23-2010, 10:10 AM
I am wondering about drains too- will poke around some this weekend. The fridge plug has an LED in it, but that can't pull much right? I do have a Scion head unit.
Notice too that different battery types like or hate different discharges. A starting battery is designed to dump massive current quickly and hates trickle discharges, so a fridge on a Red Top kills them faster than equivalent starts might. IOW, 250 1A-hr discharges is worse than one 250A-hr, they are not all the same. Parasitic drains are horrible on starting batteries' life.

Red_Chili
02-23-2010, 11:49 AM
As usual... very interesting read. If one has the time to read it! :thumb:

Romer
02-24-2010, 03:33 PM
Fully charged the battery in AGM mode. It was at 13.3V

24 hours later it was at 12.8V

24 hours later it was just below 11V and would not start. Good thing I have a second battery.

When I get back from my current trip, i will swap it out for a group 31 AGM 4 year old Lifeline battery I took out of the trailer. If that has no issues, I will take the Blems back

nuclearlemon
02-24-2010, 05:05 PM
good info to know...guess i'll stick with my optimas, which i've never had an issue with.

DaveInDenver
02-24-2010, 05:24 PM
Seems like it went from 'interesting battery drain problem' to 'pain in the rear battery drain problem'.

Romer
02-24-2010, 06:18 PM
Seems like it went from 'interesting battery drain problem' to 'pain in the rear battery drain problem'.

Yup, based on what I see it seems to be the battery. Swapping in the old lifeline will tell for sure.

I went down there to buy two for the trailer, glad I bought a third to put in the truck.

Of course, if the Lifeline battery, which is suppose to be the similar technology does the same thing, there could be something else I am missing

nakman
02-24-2010, 06:21 PM
So is this a blem 31 from the group buy we did a few months back?

Romer
02-24-2010, 07:09 PM
So is this a blem 31 from the group buy we did a few months back?

I went down there a few weeks ago and they had 4 left. I bought 3. Not sure if they are from the same pallet or not.

Like I said, I still need to put a different battery in there to make sure I am not missing anything before I take them back

60wag
02-24-2010, 07:41 PM
Does the battery lose charge if its not in the truck?

Romer
02-24-2010, 08:03 PM
Does the battery lose charge if its not in the truck?

I don't believe so. At least when I put it in the truck it was charged after sitting on the pallet and then it slowly died. I doubt they would have charged it before giving it to me.

I will check that when I swap batteris after I take it out

TIMZTOY
02-24-2010, 11:56 PM
have you ohm'd out the wires ? and does the parasidic draw go away when you pull the radio fuse ? if so, ohm out the gound and power wires for the radio.. and ohm the ground wire for the second battery. although im sure you've problly already done most of this. sorry just throwing out ideas.. why not run a marine battery if your just running acccessories off the second battery ? and not starting the truck ?:dunno:

Rzeppa
02-26-2010, 05:09 PM
I have an Optima yellow top blem that did the same thing as your dekas. It has an inverted cell. I still keep it around because the other cells are OK and it will run an inverter for a while, but I no longer trust it in a critical application in a vehicle.

Romer
03-02-2010, 06:02 PM
Update: The problem is the BLEM battery

with the BLEM, the battery voltage would drop almost 2 volts in 48 hours w/o being able to start

With another battery, after 48 hours of sitting, no perceptible voltage drop at the battery. Rock hard at 12.8V

Art Volmer
03-02-2010, 06:53 PM
I also had to return a group 31 (2nd Blem) to Hensley Battery today. The problem I was having was the battery would hold 12.6 volts but once you would put a load on it it would drop to 8.7 volts. If I drove the truck every day it was fine but when it sat for a two or more days the reserve capacity/ CCA was gone.
I hope I don't experience the same problem with the replacement I was given.

jacdaw
03-02-2010, 06:57 PM
Good news! So did they give you a new battery to replace the defective blem?
Update: The problem is the BLEM battery

with the BLEM, the battery voltage would drop almost 2 volts in 48 hours w/o being able to start

With another battery, after 48 hours of sitting, no perceptible voltage drop at the battery. Rock hard at 12.8V

Romer
03-02-2010, 07:46 PM
Good news! So did they give you a new battery to replace the defective blem?

I sent them an e-mail asking if I could trade the blems in on new batteries. Haven't heard back

Art's response is encouraging.

corsair23
03-03-2010, 01:32 AM
Bummer...

I've got two blems sitting in the garage that I guess I should be testing?

60wag
03-03-2010, 05:43 AM
Mine is good so far. I've winched with it and left the truck parked for almost a week without a problem.

Romer
03-03-2010, 04:25 PM
I went down to Hensley Battery today and two of the 3 batteries tested fine, one was bad. The one that was bad was the one I did all my troubleshooting on with measurements. Must have done something wrong on the first battery

The gave me my money back for one and now I am confident in the other two that go in the trailer.

Romer
05-02-2010, 02:47 PM
An update since I went out for 6 days.

I noticed on Wednesday, that the stuff in the frig wasn't as cold so I checked the battery voltage and it was 8.8V, I switched to the second side and it ran fine . . . till Thursday Morning when it too was below 9V and the frig (Engel was not running very cold).

I keep it plugged into the wall and keep it full charged when not in use

The ONLY thing running on this was an Engel Fridge. It was an newer ARB fridge that was running in my truck when these had the same problem.

I have a generator, so I fully charged both Batteries Thursday afternoon. Friday morning, 8V.

These are the two batteries that Hensley tested and said were perfect. One had not worked in the truck either, but they tested them and said they were fine, so I thought maybe I missed something.

The guy at Hensley was very adamant there was nothing wrong with these two batteries and would not take them back when I asked.

TIMZTOY
05-02-2010, 10:44 PM
I'd reccomend ohm'n your wires and make sure there not bad or partially bad. might also need to bump up a gauge or 2 on your power and ground wires. Your frige could also be at fault, Drawing more amperage than it should be.

sleeoffroad
05-03-2010, 07:43 AM
Ken, are you using a AGM charger with the generator? My experience was the same when I had the Kimberly Kamper. The vehicle or a generator will not charge the AGM batteries up to full capacity. They will read full voltage, but they have virtually no capacity. Now I have not tried to the AGM charger but from talking to the Oddessy rep, the recommended way to charge those is to use a AGM specific charger to get them back up to spec when you fully drain them.

8v is beyond fully drained.

Inukshuk
05-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Sounds like our blem deal was maybe not such a deal at all. If I read all this right, in simple terms it sounds like these are not good for deep cycle use in our trucks as was hoped.

rover67
05-03-2010, 12:17 PM
Why were they marked as blems in the first place? Maybe I missed that...

nakman
05-03-2010, 02:01 PM
I've got two blems in my camper.. one "wet" deep cell and one of the yellow intimidator dry cells. They each lasted about 2 - 2˝ nights, with virtually constant heater usage, the yellow one lasted a little longer. My only other drains were LED lights that wouldn't even indicate a voltage drop on my little plug-in tester.. it was really the fan on the heater that killed them, would be cool to swap in some type of low current/high output fan, if one existed?

Christo do you have a recommended source for an AGM charger?

As for my fridges, the Engel in the 80 had no issues, while the Edge Star in the truck wouldn't run for more than a day without stopping due to low voltage. Worst case scenario as that's the least efficient fridge running off my crappiest battery. Someone was telling me about a little in line device that would "fool" the fridge into thinking there was more volts than there actually is, so that it would run longer.. I forgot the device and who was telling me that, if that was you can you remind me please? I think that Edge Star is way too conservative with when it stops cooling, and I'd prefer to ask for a jump than have warm yogurt for the kiddos..

sleeoffroad
05-03-2010, 02:04 PM
This is what we got for the shop. No real experience yet, but Odyssey recommended it.

http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-ultimizer-12v-25a-battery-charger.html

Romer
05-03-2010, 02:32 PM
Christo, I have a battery charger for AGM batteries and used it when it was on the truck. haven't had any issues when I pulled these out and replaced them with a smaller odyssey. In fact I was running the fridge, computer and radio for hours without running it

My trailer has a built in battery charger

sleeoffroad
05-03-2010, 03:44 PM
My trailer has a built in battery charger

Is the charger for the camper for AGM? Might be worth experimenting with a AGM charger on the generator if it does not have a AGM setting.

Romer
05-03-2010, 04:38 PM
Is the charger for the camper for AGM? Might be worth experimenting with a AGM charger on the generator if it does not have a AGM setting.

It is, came from Adventure Trailers and they recommend Deka or Lifeline AGM batteries

corsair23
05-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Ken, my experience with the Deka blems is similar to Tim's....

I brought both of my Deka blems and the Optima Red Top (that I won at last year's raffle just in case) to CM10. Charged all 3 with my Schumacher SC-7500A (http://store.schumachermart.com/sc-8000a.html) charger (link is for the 8000A model as I'm guessing they no longer make the 7500A model).

Ran the first Deka for two nights in the popup powering just the furnace blower (used lanterns and flashlights for lighting) and when I checked the first battery it was at 11.7v - I couldn't remember what "dead" was for a battery so I swapped out the Dekas and ran the second battery for the next two nights. I haven't checked what the voltage level of the second battery is so no report there. But, I gave both Dekas a workout for sure as that furnace fan didn't turn off very often on any of the nights :rolleyes:

Ran the fridge in the LX off my main (and only still) battery with is the Orbital I bought 3+ years ago. Battery voltage in the LX never dropped below 12.2v but I'm guessing the fridge didn't have to work too hard to keep cool most of the time when the truck wasn't running.

If you'd like to borrow my charger just to give it a try and then see how a battery performs you're welcome to. I was pretty impressed with the fact the Dekas seemed to last a long time but maybe I was am just overly happy that we didn't freeze any of the nights in BFE :hill:

Romer
05-08-2010, 12:26 PM
Jeff, thanks for the offer of the charger, but like I said before I have two (Stand alone trickle and Trailer mounted) chargers, both with AGM mode. The same batteries not working in my truck and then behaving the same in the trailer says its the batteries. Especially when I replaced the truck batteries with Sears Platinums and have had no issues. Measurements showed no load draining them and that they are fully charged before taking them off the charger. I keep them on shore power and fully charged in the garage 100% of the time

I took the two Blems back to Hensely's today and he said a lot of Blems have problems. He applied the full purchase price to two new Deka AGM Deep Cycle batteries. I was very happy with the customer service.

Inukshuk
05-08-2010, 02:27 PM
I have copies of the receipts for the blems I purchased if anyone needs them. Mine are still on a shelf so I hope they will work.

Inukshuk
06-13-2012, 08:50 PM
Does anyone have any long term update? I still have my two Deka Blems on the shelf and was thinking to put one in.

nakman
06-13-2012, 09:46 PM
My blem 31 is still happily serving the camper. It can do a full night with constant heater blower & ignition, which is on par with just about any camper out there. In summer months it'll last for days.

Oh, and it helped Marco's 60 drive back from Moab, with a bad alternator.

Inukshuk
06-13-2012, 10:36 PM
My blem 31 is still happily serving the camper. It can do a full night with constant heater blower & ignition, which is on par with just about any camper out there. In summer months it'll last for days.

Oh, and it helped Marco's 60 drive back from Moab, with a bad alternator.

:thumb:

rover67
06-14-2012, 09:15 AM
My blem 31 is still happily serving the camper. It can do a full night with constant heater blower & ignition, which is on par with just about any camper out there. In summer months it'll last for days.

Oh, and it helped Marco's 60 drive back from Moab, with a bad alternator.

Yep, it coupled with the other two batteries in my truck made it all the way back with the alternator doing zero charging. P-Nutty.

It was awesome. I didn't think it would work.

corsair23
06-14-2012, 11:34 AM
Does anyone have any long term update? I still have my two Deka Blems on the shelf and was thinking to put one in.

My only real use was at CM10 at Area BFE...We didn't use the lights much because we wanted the juice to be available to run the furnace fan. I brought out both of my blems and used one to run the camper for 2 nights and then swapped in the second battery for the next two nights...I don't recall the exact numbers but both batteries still had a decent charge after the trip.

As for using either as my main battery in the 80? On my blems they ground off the regular battery terminals so IMO it would be more work than it would be worth to use it in the LX as my primary battery :confused:

Inukshuk
06-14-2012, 08:36 PM
On my blems they ground off the regular battery terminals so IMO it would be more work than it would be worth to use it in the LX as my primary battery :confused:

?? What did they leave you with? For $2.59 I just bought posts that will thread onto the 3/8 bolt.

wesintl
06-14-2012, 08:44 PM
you just use the threaded posts. Even new ones don't have battery terminals in most 31 agm configurations

Inukshuk
06-15-2012, 01:04 AM
you just use the threaded posts. Even new ones don't have battery terminals in most 31 agm configurations

Yeah. I did. Took a while, but its in. End of hijack.

corsair23
06-15-2012, 11:16 AM
?? What did they leave you with? For $2.59 I just bought posts that will thread onto the 3/8 bolt.

Ahh :hill: - I didn't even realize they sold posts that thread over the top of the small studs. Good to know :thumb: