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dirtyXplorer
03-09-2010, 12:40 PM
Hi, I am new here. Through a career change, my dad ended up giving me his 1978 FJ40. 2F engine with the 4 speed.

It has a few issues that I think might be carb related but I have never delt with a carb before. I did some searching on here and Ih8mud but I didn't come up with much on how to tune these carbs. I am looking for someone local(ish) who could come over and give me a hand getting this thing running better.

The symptoms:
-I have to mess with the choke to get it to idle, it always has to be out a bit
-It runs pretty rough and the idle seems high
-It wont start sometimes after driving it for a bit, I have to let it sit for like 20 mins then try for a while for it to start.
-I pulled the plugs and they were real messy with some white stuff caked on them (running rich/hot???). I am hoping to get some new plugs/cap/rotor in the next few weeks.
-It has also been SUCKING gas down. I know these are bad but it seems to go through half a tank in a weekend of light driving.

It also has some rust through the floor pan but I plan on working on that after I get it running.

Edit: located in Denver.

http://yotatech.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_20681.jpg

MDH33
03-09-2010, 01:15 PM
Welcome.

Wow, that's a beauty. :thumb: I dig the old school decals. :cool:

Sounds like you need a tune-up to try and baseline things. Probably a mixture of things causing your issues. Timing, maybe vacuum and it wouldn't hurt to give the carb a once over either.

Is everything under the hood stock?

SteveH
03-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Cool truck! Be patient - you're picking up the slack on some 30 years of deferred maintenence.

- Replace intake/exhaust manifold gasket, check intake for cracks under carb
- Rebuild carb with kit from CarQuest (replace secondary diaphram while you're in there)
- Clean ash/deposits from plugs, or replace them.
- Install electric fuel pump to prevent vapor locking/hard starts when hot
- Try to fix the electric carb fan - it should run for up to 30 minutes after you shut the truck off on a hot day.
- Check for other vacuum leaks, proper base timing, a functioning vacuum advance (not rusted shut or hole in diaphram).
- Expect 12+ MPG in all around driving.

Steve
(20 year owner of a stock '78 FJ40)

treerootCO
03-09-2010, 01:28 PM
Vacuum leak is #1 thing to check. Check or block of your PCV and see if the symptoms are reduced. I use a piece of cardboard to completely block of the carb. If the idle raises just before it dies, you have a vacuum leak.

The fuel thing is either running rich all the time to keep her running or the float and or needle is stuck.

dirtyXplorer
03-09-2010, 01:36 PM
Welcome.

Wow, that's a beauty. :thumb: I dig the old school decals. :cool:

Sounds like you need a tune-up to try and baseline things. Probably a mixture of things causing your issues. Timing, maybe vacuum and it wouldn't hurt to give the carb a once over either.

Is everything under the hood stock?

Thanks! Everything is stock (I think). It looks like the PO before my dad bought it messed with some of the stuff. It looks like there is an AC compressor and another little thing below it that are missing a belt. I will try to take some pictures. :rolleyes:

Cool truck! Be patient - you're picking up the slack on some 30 years of deferred maintenence.

- Replace intake/exhaust manifold gasket, check intake for cracks under carb
- Rebuild carb with kit from CarQuest (replace secondary diaphram while you're in there)
- Clean ash/deposits from plugs, or replace them.
- Install electric fuel pump to prevent vapor locking/hard starts when hot
- Try to fix the electric carb fan - it should run for up to 30 minutes after you shut the truck off on a hot day.
- Check for other vacuum leaks, proper base timing, a functioning vacuum advance (not rusted shut or hole in diaphram).
- Expect 12+ MPG in all around driving.

Steve
(20 year owner of a stock '78 FJ40)

Wow, thanks for all the tips! :bowdown: I am on a college students budget so it might be slow going getting through the list. It looks like I should start at the top of the list?

As for rebuilding/adjusting the carb, I have never worked on one before. is it something you can do in an afternoon? Is there some good resources on this?

dirtyXplorer
03-09-2010, 01:39 PM
Vacuum leak is #1 thing to check. Check or block of your PCV and see if the symptoms are reduced. I use a piece of cardboard to completely block of the carb. If the idle raises just before it dies, you have a vacuum leak.

The fuel thing is either running rich all the time to keep her running or the float and or needle is stuck.

Thanks, Ill have to try the vacuum leak check. A lot of the rubber (tubes, wires) under the hood look pretty old :rolleyes:

MDH33
03-09-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm not an expert, but I've rebuilt a bunch of Aisin carbs. If you're not in a hurry, I can go through your carb for the cost of a rebuild kit and a case of good :beer:

Where is your rig located?

RicardoJM
03-09-2010, 01:42 PM
As for rebuilding/adjusting the carb, I have never worked on one before. is it something you can do in an afternoon? Is there some good resources on this?

All of the advice you got above is good. I recently rebuilt my first carb (http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11570&highlight=Aisan+rebuild) and it went really well. Yours is a bit more complex, but the same principles would apply.

dirtyXplorer
03-09-2010, 01:45 PM
I'm not an expert, but I've rebuilt a bunch of Aisin carbs. If you're not in a hurry, I can go through your carb for the cost of a rebuild kit and case of good :beer:

Where is your rig located?

That would be awesome. I am in Denver in the west Colfax/Perry area. I would be happy to get :beer: ,food, cash etc. if you could give me a hand.

Is CarQuest a good source for parts like gaskets and the carb rebuild kits?

All of the advice you got above is good. I recently rebuilt my first carb (http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11570&highlight=Aisan+rebuild) and it went really well. Yours is a bit more complex, but the same principles would apply.

Thanks, that is a great writeup. Ill have to take a better look when I get home tonight.

MDH33
03-09-2010, 01:50 PM
That would be awesome. I am in Denver in the west Colfax/Perry area. I would be happy to get :beer: ,food, cash etc. if you could give me a hand.

Is CarQuest a good source for parts like gaskets and the carb rebuild kits?



I would call Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters for parts. He will hook you up with what you need:

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/index.html

CBone
03-09-2010, 01:56 PM
Also, if you live at Colfax and Perry, you are smack dab in the middle of the Central Breakfast Club part of town. We meet every other Friday at Javier and C's (38th and Tennyson) at 7:30 am. You should join us next week, as this is our off week. Here's the thread: http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10380

There are a couple of 40 owners in our midst and a couple other really knowledgeable guys.

SteveH
03-09-2010, 08:27 PM
The reason I mentioned CarQuest's rebuild kit is that they had one in stock for my '78 FJ40, and it had the secondary diaphram, which has been discontinued by Toyota. That part alone was $30 some years back. You can certainly patronize a real 'cruiser shop for your parts, too.

Most carb kits have an exploded diagram with parts in a numbered order, and tell you to take it apart in the order shown. If you have a clean work surface and good lighting and some bins (yogurt cups), most carb rebuilds aren't too tough. I wouldn't start with a Rochester Quadrajet, however. Ideally, you'd rebuild a tractor carb first and move up to a 1 bbl Jeep carb, and so on. Don't take apart any carb more than you have to - some parts can be effectively cleaned and inspected without taking them fully apart. It's a judgement call, there.

Check out the exploded diagrams on the SOR website, too, for pix of the manifolds, etc.

Get a serious 2F-head to look it over and do some diagnosis, as it's a bit silly to redo the carb and install it on a leaky manifold. A compression test is in order, too, so that if by chance the whole engine or head is basically shot, you know that up front.

subzali
03-09-2010, 08:36 PM
If you go to the TECH LINKS (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/13205-f-q-frequently-asked-questions-f-q-updated-28-jul-09-a.html) page of the 40 series section on IH8MUD, in the engine link area there are some links to carb tech that should prove useful. I'm pretty sure that's where I got some tips when I did mine the first time. If you're going to be doing any repairs, I would suggest that you at least get a Haynes manual if not a Factory Service manual. IIRC the Haynes manual hit the carb adjustment pretty well head-on.

Hope that helps,

nattybumppo
03-09-2010, 10:25 PM
Nice looking rig, and a freebee! Awesome! X2 on the breakfast club. Come by!

dirtyXplorer
03-12-2010, 12:41 PM
Thanks for all the info. Ill be taking a closer look at it this weekend and probably ordering some parts. Ill also take a few pics of under the hood...

Check for vacuum leaks
Check/clean maybe rebuild the carb
Plugs/Cap/Rotor

Ill post back with what I find :)

Ill probably have some time during my spring break to dig in. Its 3/21 to 3/27 if anybody is free and wants to swing by Ill get some :beer: lol.

dirtyXplorer
03-13-2010, 02:35 PM
So, I checked the vacuum using the "cardboard over the carb while its running" method and the idle went up before the engine died. I looked around a little and saw this on the drivers side inner fender.

It looks like a missing tube and a broken off nipple with a tube on it (circled in red)
http://yotatech.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Missingtube.JPG

When I put my finger over the two holes and try the cardboard method it just dies. What is that little gray plastic thing?

EDIT!!! I found a tube coming out from under the carb that goes to the gray thing. I plugged it in and it idles much better.

Here is a new pic from under the hood.

http://yotatech.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_2117.JPG

Lastly, the engine is missing one of the belts. It goes to what looks like a compressor (AC?) and another thing under the compressor. I cant turn the pulley by hand, what it is and do I need to connect/replace it?

http://yotatech.com/gallery/data/500/medium/weirdthing.JPG

LKOT 683
03-13-2010, 04:34 PM
Looks like it is the VCV (Vacuum Control Valve), from the Haynes manual. i would try to get the broken nipple out of the hose and connect the two together.

dirtyXplorer
03-13-2010, 04:42 PM
Looks like it is the VCV (Vacuum Control Valve), from the Haynes manual. i would try to get the broken nipple out of the hose and connect the two together.

Thanks, I found a tube coming from the carb that goes on the empty nipple. the broken off nipple is in the tube that is draped over the VCV. Would it be best to replace the VCV since it has a broken nipple?

dirtyXplorer
03-13-2010, 05:22 PM
It is also making a ticking/rattling type noise when idling that you can only hear from underneath and behind. From the front and top you can not hear it. I made a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiHLEg7IArU

Any ideas on what to look at? Maybe an exhaust leak? I haven't had it on enough to see if it does it when it is warm.

FJ_Mark
03-13-2010, 10:05 PM
The last photo looks like the air pump. It looks like someone has mounted an old AC compressor under the hood. You really don't need the air pump. I would let someone familar with that year to see what is missing or by passed. Get a haynes manual and trace all the vacum lines and make sure none are cracked or disconnected without being plugged. Then give it a good tune with Toyota parts. And make sure you adjust the vavles.

Inukshuk
03-13-2010, 11:00 PM
Also, if you live at Colfax and Perry, you are smack dab in the middle of the Central Breakfast Club part of town.

x2 and I'm at 21st & Newton.

Air Randy
03-14-2010, 12:41 PM
Since it's been de-smogged you don't need the air pump. They are notorious for freezing up as your's has.

The old AC compressor could have been installed to be used as an on board air pump system.

The ticking noise could be that your valves are out of adjustment, do that first. If it's still there afterwards then you may have a leaking exhaust manifold gasket. If you pull the manifold off to replace the gasket, check the manifold over carefully as the are known to crack and leak.

dirtyXplorer
03-14-2010, 03:07 PM
Since it's been de-smogged you don't need the air pump. They are notorious for freezing up as your's has.

The old AC compressor could have been installed to be used as an on board air pump system.

The ticking noise could be that your valves are out of adjustment, do that first. If it's still there afterwards then you may have a leaking exhaust manifold gasket. If you pull the manifold off to replace the gasket, check the manifold over carefully as the are known to crack and leak.

How difficult is adjusting the valves? I know that adjusting valves on my 4runner's 3.0 is a pretty involved process with shims, etc. I have the Haynes but it doesn't look like it says much about adjusting clearances.

Is there any special tools needed?

thanks!! :D

EDIT: Just found this:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/232126-first-valve-adjustment-my-78-fj40.html

Do I just need a feeler gauge?

dirtyXplorer
03-16-2010, 01:03 PM
I am looking at service manuals. I have the haynes but its not very in depth with its procedures.

Is this the one that most of you have?

Here (http://www.sor.com/sor/cartview.tam?xax=29263&221-02.item=221-02&item-pdb=WGREP%3A[D%3A%2Fweb%2Fsor%2Fproduct.tdb%20af%205%205%201%20100%200%200%20%22221%22%20]&call=HH%3A..26caller.3D.2Fsor.2Fcat221.2Etam.26callcase.3D&priorcase=main&uu=1884818)

MDH33
03-16-2010, 01:26 PM
Get the Toyota Factory Service manual for the 2F. In addition, you're going to need to get the correct year 2F emissions manual, which will help you figure out all the vacuum connections.

Looking at your pics, it looks like the engine has been partially desmogged, which will certainly cause all sorts of running issues. You're going to need to get it set up properly if you hope to get it to pass emissions. Does that smog pump still spin freely?

dirtyXplorer
03-16-2010, 01:33 PM
Get the Toyota Factory Service manual for the 2F. In addition, you're going to need to get the correct year 2F emissions manual, which will help you figure out all the vacuum connections.

Looking at your pics, it looks like the engine has been partially desmogged, which will certainly cause all sorts of running issues. You're going to need to get it set up properly if you hope to get it to pass emissions. Does that smog pump still spin freely?

No, the pump (the one missing the belt) doesn't turn by hand. As far as I know everything else is there...lol

dirtyXplorer
03-20-2010, 02:35 PM
Ill be tinkering with it for a few hours on this Monday 3/22 if anybody in the neighborhood is free :D (I can have food/drinks, etc)

Lots to do, thinking of:
Checking/adjusting the valves
finding a possible exhausts leak
Adjusting the carb
Figuring out why it doesn't start sometimes


Does anyone have the 2F engine manual I could borrow while mine gets here?

farnhamstj
03-20-2010, 10:45 PM
I have a set of factory manuals for 1978 fj40. They are a little dirty. Make me an offer. PM me.

dirtyXplorer
03-21-2010, 02:26 PM
I have a set of factory manuals for 1978 fj40. They are a little dirty. Make me an offer. PM me.

PMed back!

dirtyXplorer
03-22-2010, 09:48 PM
Got some work on the FJ40 done today. I replaced the exhaust/intake manifold gasket, what a pain in the ass! :mad: lol

farnhamstj
03-23-2010, 12:41 PM
PM me with your address and I'll stick them in the mail. Did you need all 3 or just engine and emission?

dirtyXplorer
03-23-2010, 01:18 PM
PM me with your address and I'll stick them in the mail. Did you need all 3 or just engine and emission?

PM'd you. THANKS! :)

dirtyXplorer
03-29-2010, 11:48 AM
I have a new question...I didn't really want to start a new thread...should I?

I was adjusting my valves and ended up moving the flywheel with out the distributor cap on. I believe I need to recheck my timing and possible have to adjust it???

First of all, I have never done this and I want to learn how.

1. Anyone have a timing light I can borrow this week?

2. Is there any good writ-ups for nwebs on how to adjust/set your timing? I didn't see any real descriptions in the manuals.

The real basics like what does the 7 degrees mean and how do you use the timing light :confused::confused::confused:

THANKS!

MDH33
03-29-2010, 11:56 AM
I have a new question...I didn't really want to start a new thread...should I?

I was adjusting my valves and ended up moving the flywheel with out the distributor cap on. I believe I need to recheck my timing and possible have to adjust it???

First of all, I have never done this and I want to learn how.

1. Anyone have a timing light I can borrow this week?

2. Is there any good writ-ups for nwebs on how to adjust/set your timing? I didn't see any real descriptions in the manuals.

The real basics like what does the 7 degrees mean and how do you use the timing light :confused::confused::confused:

THANKS!

Dis you have just the cap off, or the whole distributor out?

dirtyXplorer
03-29-2010, 11:58 AM
Dis you have just the cap off, or the whole distributor out?

Just the cap, I was watching the rotor position.

Would having the cap off and having the rotor move around actually effect the where the timing is?

MDH33
03-29-2010, 12:13 PM
Just the cap, I was watching the rotor position.

Would having the cap off and having the rotor move around actually effect the where the timing is?

Nope. Only moving the distributor base will change it.

dirtyXplorer
03-29-2010, 12:16 PM
Nope. Only moving the distributor base will change it.

That makes sense. lol

I dug in yesterday and adjusted the valves. Ill have to put it all back together and see if it starts :D

MDH33
03-29-2010, 12:49 PM
That makes sense. lol

I dug in yesterday and adjusted the valves. Ill have to put it all back together and see if it starts :D

Valves should be adjusted when the engine is HOT for best results. if you did it cold, that's an ok place to start, but you'll want to do it again when it's running better and you can pop off the valve cover before the engine cools. Some of the manuals even say to do it while running, but that will just destroy your feeler gauges.

dirtyXplorer
03-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Valves should be adjusted when the engine is HOT for best results. if you did it cold, that's an ok place to start, but you'll want to do it again when it's running better and you can pop off the valve cover before the engine cools. Some of the manuals even say to do it while running, but that will just destroy your feeler gauges.

I did it with the engine hot but I definitely need to recheck it.

Using this thread for refrence:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/232126-first-valve-adjustment-my-78-fj40.html
I pulled the valve cover and lined up the little line on the flywheel to the pointer. Checked some valves, roaated 360 degrees and checked the rest. Some of them were right on but I found a lot of them to be a but tight.

Is there a easier way to do it? Thanks!