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Romer
03-14-2010, 06:52 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4995081

You think Josh can mentor him like he did Kassel?

corsair23
03-14-2010, 07:50 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4995081

You think Josh can mentor him like he did Kassel?

I would have preferred to keep Hillis and given them Marshall :)

nakman
03-14-2010, 09:44 PM
Interesting. I liked Hillis too as RB.. and Kyle Orton was total money last season. hopefully Quinn can learn the system and be able to step in when Orton either gets injured or starts to suck. Doubtful he'll see much PT in this season though, IMO.

simps80
03-15-2010, 10:00 AM
I'd rather have peyton hillis toatin' the rock than no-vision moreno

quinn?
who cares
another non-factor backup to a truly middle-of-the-pack starter like orton.

my 8 year old daughter could have completed 60% of her passes throwing 6 yard slants to brandon marshall and the rest of those receivers.

we went from bad defense and good offense to ok defense and bad offense with no prospects to get better. he single handedly dismantled a core group of young offensive players that had a ton of potential. Now with Nolan gone on the defensive side because McDaniels is a TOTAL EGO MANIAC, our defense will return to its former form, and we'll have a bad offense with no talent and a bad defense.

This is the kind of decision (putting your first-rate franchise in the hands of an inexperienced kid like Josh McDaniels) that takes your team from a short-term lull to long-term mediocrity. Hello-buffalo-bills.

on the other hand I suppose quinn is a decent pickup even if for no other reason, chris simms' can't play football, as in can't play football-at-all.

But even though Hillis was a low-rounder, he was a much better back than denver's own 1st round bust, moreno. I actually would have rather seen CantRun go instead of Hillis.

RockRunner
03-15-2010, 10:29 AM
I see Chris Simms listed as a free agent pretty soon after camp starts. I think Quinn can be a good quarterback as long as he can move around the pocket. The Broncos O line will have to protect him to give him time. With time he can throw the ball anywhere.

We'll have to wait and see who starts the season off this year, can you say quarterback controversy???

wesintl
03-15-2010, 10:42 AM
I thought they would pick up anderson not trade for quinn :confused:

simps80
03-15-2010, 10:43 AM
Holmgren thought Jake Delhomme gave them a better shot than quinn

I agree

that means Holmgren, a man who has been around a lot longer and knows a lot more about football than mcdaniels does, thought quinn was worth trading for some low rounders.

So 1 of 2 possiblities exist:
holmgren thinks Hillis is far better of a football player than mcdaniels does
or
holmgren thinks quinn's a bust. (probably the most likely since most of the NFL considers this to be true).

either way, if he chose carolina's old-castoff delhomme (who I thought we should go after, he's still got some time to play) over quinn, it probably doesn't say a whole lot for his opinion of quinn.

quinn is destined for underwear commercials.

The only way this makes sense is if one considers Hillis to be a backup fullback (which he is under McDaniels) and not the dynamic, hard running, hard hitting running back we all know him to be prior to McDumbass's arrival.

I bet quinn, even though he's considered a 1st round bust, is AT LEAST a better backup than chris simms, he might even beat out Orton, but I think Hillis was one of the best football players the Broncos had.

McDaniels didn't and doesn't see it that way, he obviously had no use for Hillis, for some reason, probalby because he wasn't one of "his guys".

I hope i'm really wrong, and so is Holmgren, and Mangini, and McDaniels is right in thinking that Quinn brings more to the table than Hillis, I just don't think so.

I would've traded McDaniels for Quinn

wesintl
03-15-2010, 10:54 AM
at some point you need a qb for the future. delhomme doesn't give you that. Imho it's better to trade than take a 1st rd qb that you have to pay a ton of $ to.

they really gave up very little to get quinn. Most football analysts have said if quinn is still a bust the donks haven't really lost anything.

simps80
03-15-2010, 11:01 AM
if you consider hillis to be a 7th round draft pick (which he was)
and don't take into consideration the quality back he actually was,
then 'most analysts' are right,
we didn't give up anything for quinn
and therefore stand to lose very little when quinn is a bust.

but the fact is, Hillis was a much better back than a 7th round pick, he was a find, and was a solid player, he could play full back and tail back and played with a lot of grit.

for some unexplained reason, nobody who covers the broncos even can figure out why McDaniels hated Hillis.

If you ignore what type of player he was and just look at it on the surface, he didn't play much last year, so we aren't losing much. And that's what 'most analysts' are doing.

imo, most analysts are wrong in this case and Hillis was simply a much better player than either his draft position, or his playing time last year, indicated.

LARGEONE
03-15-2010, 12:12 PM
The truest statement above is that McDaniels is an egomaniac!!!

He will not last long w/ Denver and I really don't think other teams will take a chance on him either after watching him dismantle so much is such a short period of time.

wesintl
03-15-2010, 12:31 PM
imo, most analysts are wrong in this case and Hillis was simply a much better player than either his draft position, or his playing time last year, indicated.

lol.. hillis might be higher than a 7th today but maybe only a couple rnds. he's no first rounder. I think most analysts are not that far off with him.

I'm not saying he not good but the fans here seem to value him way higher than than anyone else.

I look at homegerns view differently. they wanted anderson and quinn gone, they would take almost anything for him to get rid of him and did. they didn't get anything for anderson which at one time went to the pro bowl, quinn didn't. doesn't seem all that smart to me.

simps80
03-15-2010, 12:38 PM
I guess only time will tell.

Will quinn have greater relative success than hillis?

not 100% sure of the answer. only maybe like 90% sure of the answer.

of course people outside Denver don't know much or think very highly of Hillis, people outside of Denver didn't get to see him much and don't know what type of player he is, the assumption is is that he's a backup fullback that plays a little special teams.

my only point is I don't think that is a valid representation if Hillis' skill set.

wesintl
03-15-2010, 01:21 PM
he never had over 350 yards in a season, college or 2008. he's a short yardage runner. now why we didn't use him a couple times to punch it in last year, I don't know but so far he's not a feature back.

we need a rising sun fantasy league this fall... who's up?

simps80
03-15-2010, 01:27 PM
343 yards on 68 carries with 5 td's in 2008, the only year where he got a significant number of carries.

that's 5 yards per carry.

5 yards per carry is feature back average for sure.

He's a fast starter, he doesn't need 10 carries to get into a groove.

we'll see

wesintl
03-15-2010, 01:35 PM
a lot of that depends on the offensive line :D

simps80
03-15-2010, 01:40 PM
true in 2008 behind what was considered the best zone blocking scheme with good personnel,
hillis avg'd 5.1
in 2009 behind the 'modified' zone blocking scheme with some injuries on the line,
he averaged 4.1 with only 13 carries.


cantrun moreno didn't break 1000 yds with almost 250 carries, a tasty 3.8 yards per

so yea, a lot depends on 'the line'

its not apples to apples here, but NoVision Moreno liked to fumble and couldn't hit the holes, buckhalter imo was much better.

who cares, its all moot, we got cleveland's cast off for mcdaniels cast off.

quinn won't be here in 2 years. neither will mcdaniels

wesintl
03-15-2010, 01:47 PM
hopefully it works out for both of them, obviously hillis was not getting playing time here nor quinn there. sometimes a change of scenery, team and someone else believing in your abilities is all they need.

corsair23
03-15-2010, 01:53 PM
I liked Hillis for his "can do" attitude...He reminded me of Eddie Mac...A player that was often overlooked but stepped up and got it done when called on...These guys did more on sheer determination and love of the game than the superstars like Marshall etc. did with their skill.

I'd really like to hear an honest answer from McDaniels on why he didn't play Hillis more, especially in situations where you knew that Hillis was likely to come through for you...

corsair23
03-15-2010, 02:39 PM
I see Chris Simms listed as a free agent pretty soon after camp starts.

Didn't take that long :rolleyes:

Broncos just cut him today

Jacket
03-15-2010, 04:13 PM
he never had over 350 yards in a season, college or 2008. he's a short yardage runner. now why we didn't use him a couple times to punch it in last year, I don't know but so far he's not a feature back.

we need a rising sun fantasy league this fall... who's up?

He played behind Darren McFadden and Felix Jones - both starters in the NFL now.

I'd play some fantasy against you - but only if there's cash stakes.:)

wesintl
03-15-2010, 04:41 PM
He played behind Darren McFadden and Felix Jones - both starters in the NFL now.

I'd play some fantasy against you - but only if there's cash stakes.:)

what, you can't transfer in college? I guess your saying he wasn't a starter then and isn't now either. thanks for the confirmation.:thumb::D

it wouldn't be worth it if I couldn't take money from your cruiser fund for mine :)

Jacket
03-15-2010, 05:15 PM
what, you can't transfer in college? I guess your saying he wasn't a starter then and isn't now either. thanks for the confirmation.:thumb::D

it wouldn't be worth it if I couldn't take money from your cruiser fund for mine :)

Of course you can, but he chose not to. Just because you played behind two studs in college, doesn't mean you don't have what it takes to play in the NFL ( a la Matt Cassel). Maybe he's smarter than the rest of 'em - think about how much "fresher" his body is having been spared all those licks in college.

simps80
03-15-2010, 07:01 PM
hopefully it works out for both of them, obviously hillis was not getting playing time here nor quinn there. sometimes a change of scenery, team and someone else believing in your abilities is all they need.

I think I trust holmgren's ability to judge quarterbacks over McEgo's anyday.

he's got a pretty good history of picking 'em and playin' em and coachin' em
montana
young
favre
hasselback

he probably showed up in brown-town looked at some film and decided they both were bums.

I bet he's stoked to get something, anything for the underwear model.

We could've waited till after training camp and picked him up for nothing, guaranteed, literally nothing.

wesintl
03-15-2010, 08:15 PM
Of course you can, but he chose not to. Just because you played behind two studs in college, doesn't mean you don't have what it takes to play in the NFL ( a la Matt Cassel). Maybe he's smarter than the rest of 'em - think about how much "fresher" his body is having been spared all those licks in college.
he is playing in the nfl?:confused: he'd just not a pure runner like buckhalter or moreno, he saw the same stats his first year in the nfl as in college.


I think I trust holmgren's ability to judge quarterbacks over McEgo's anyday.

he's got a pretty good history of picking 'em and playin' em and coachin' em
montana
young
favre
hasselback

he probably showed up in brown-town looked at some film and decided they both were bums.

I bet he's stoked to get something, anything for the underwear model.

We could've waited till after training camp and picked him up for nothing, guaranteed, literally nothing.

holmgren didn't pick montana or farve. mc daniels at his age has worked with brady pretty similar to holmgren working with montana.

I doubt brady would be there after trainging camp. being realistic some other loser team would have taken the chance.

wesintl
04-14-2010, 11:53 AM
SO long Brandon...

at least it's a deep draft year for WR

any weapons left?

wesintl
04-22-2010, 09:45 PM
well, demaryias thomas is a good pick but tebow.. oh lord, wtf

SRT08BUS
04-22-2010, 09:57 PM
Worst Bronco pick EVER!!! Do we really have to ruin a season before it even starts?

Jacket
04-22-2010, 10:34 PM
Maybe he's got a different position in mind? H-back? 3rd down slot guy? Team chaplain? I agree - there's gotta be someone else to take there....

D. Thomas - great pick (but I might be biased....).

Air Randy
04-23-2010, 11:26 AM
I guess I'm missing something here, Tebow's supposed to be the best QB this draft. So what if he's a bible thumper, I bet he can play football in the NFL.

corsair23
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
I guess I'm missing something here, Tebow's supposed to be the best QB this draft. So what if he's a bible thumper, I bet he can play football in the NFL.

I heard the opposite...That he was the 3rd, 4th, or even lower rated QB pick. I couldn't care less what his religious convictions are but I'm confused why you'd trade away a good running back to get a QB, a good albeit PITA wide receiver for some draft picks, and then turn around and draft a WR and jump through hoops to pick up a QB :confused:

SRT08BUS
04-23-2010, 12:30 PM
I can care less about his religion, I was also under the impression he was a good collage player but the overwhelming word from what I've heard (for a while) that he would be a sub par pro QB. I hope he is traded, Tebow to, but who would take josh. Anyone....PLEASE!

Rezarf
04-23-2010, 03:43 PM
I really like Tebow, I like the Gators too! :D

However, and hopefully not to jinx him, but UF has yet to have one of their awesome (in college) QB's do much in the NFL... if at all.

However, I think Tebow is one of the best out there this season. However, the NFL is SUCH A HUGE jump from college ball, it is hard to tell how any of these dudes are going to do.

Romer
04-23-2010, 04:02 PM
he was the best QB in college ball and won the Heismen. Experts are saying he can't make the transition because of the way he throws the ball. With as much talent as he has, I bet he will suprize the experts and be a star.

I think Josh made a good call here. Trading Shedfler for a 5th round pick was a bad call

I agree with letting the whining Marshall go.

SRT08BUS
04-23-2010, 04:16 PM
I agree with letting the whining Marshall go.[/QUOTE]

Marshall was a cancer to the team, Cutler was the cry baby to me, I just don't see him being a great pro QB.

what would be the score, if you can come up with one, on QB's that won a championship or the Hiesmen and how or where they R now. I just think that the money we will give him will be far to much. I can not stand Cutler but I'm starting to miss him just a little.

wesintl
04-23-2010, 04:29 PM
he was the best QB in college ball and won the Heismen.

should we list the heisman qb winners in the last 20 years that were a bust?

andre ware
ty detmer
gino toretta
charlie ward
danny wuerffel
chris wienke
eric crouch
jason white
matt lienart
troy smith

the latest is bradford and tebow..

any of the above you reconize much less play in the nfl? are any in the hall of fame? the only one I didn't list is carson palmer since I think he as heiman winner has a strong nfl career..

Otherwise history says Tebow and bradford will not have promising NFL careers

simps80
04-23-2010, 04:34 PM
Here's the deal:

we trade down down down to 24 back up to 22 through new england to draft thomas who is a good player. He is on the slower side for a number 1 starter WR, and that is one position that typically can be filled with top-notch talent in rounds 2 and 3, in fact most projections had thomas going in the 2nd to 3rd round. we picked him at #22 of round 1.

we EASILY could have picked him at 24, nobody wanted him in the first round, nobody wanted him ahead of the best receiver in the draft, Dez Bryant.

When the cowboys saw that, they got giddy, traded up to 24 and picked up Bryant. They figured we'd go after him since we kicked Marshall, the best receiver in the league, to the curb. But alas, they underestimated the stupidity of our staff, and Bryant fell into their lap.

Then, eager to add a 4th quarterback to the roster, one who by all accounts won't actually play quarterback with any degree of regularity for at least 2 seasons if he can actually make the requisite changes to his game to do so, we trade up again (giving away a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounder up) to draft Tim-freaking-Tebow.

A quarterback, who was a nice player in college but has a 590ms release time (which is 2 weeks in NFL time) but through recent changes has been able to get that down to 560ms, which is only like a week and a half in NFL time.

And then there is much question about if he can succeed in a pro style offense, he isn't the right type of player right now for that.

So...he can't throw without getting sacked, and he has never been asked to make any kind of reads even close to what he will see in the NFL.

That is the big knock on Tebow...it is a HUGE unknown if he can even make the adjustments necessary to be a SERVICEABLE nfl quarterback, much less a first rounder.

You don't draft quarterbacks in the first round that you don't plan on being your quarterback of the future....This was the single most arrogant pick of the draft, arrogant on McDaniels' part.
The best accounts say that we got nervous Buffalo was going to trade up into round 1 and draft Tebow, which wasn't the case, we panicked.

Only McDaniels could think he can ignore the glaring needs of this team and draft a fix-er-upper to sit in a stable of 4 quarterbacks for the next 3 seasons and play a little H-Back on occassion and somehow make that worth a first round pick.

McDaniels is an arrogant train wreck desperately trying to step out of the shadows of his mentor by making bold moves. But they are costly ones. This was a horrible 1st round, even worse than last year's 1st round turned out to be.

Which by all accounts now has proved to be a disaster, not just a bunch of mcdaniels-haters bitching.

I wish I didn't love the Broncos, cause they just bought a whole lot of heartache putting all their eggs in the tebow basket.

simps80
04-23-2010, 04:43 PM
I just thought of the upside to this whole thing:

every year I burn countless hours watching the Broncos play.

Now this year I'll have more time to sit in the garage and tinker.

Oh...and Bowlen got a guy back in the stable that'll seel Jerseys again for a while, then maybe he'll be able to afford the top 6 pick he'll be faced with in next year's draft.

nakman
04-23-2010, 04:48 PM
I remember when the Chargers drafted Ryan Leaf ahead of Manning... man I hope that isn't us this year.

Shark Bait
04-23-2010, 04:53 PM
I'm just not looking forward to the sideshow that comes along with the guy. Coupled with the fact that many talent evaluators say he won't cut it, I think McDaniels will be gone after this year or next if they Broncos don't get close to the Superbowl.

wesintl
04-23-2010, 05:50 PM
Here's the deal:

I was beginning to worry you got converted to a follower :eek: :lmao:

:D

simps80
04-23-2010, 10:27 PM
I was beginning to worry you got converted to a follower :eek: :lmao:

:D

:)

I need to learn to word things better
my wife has told me that for 15 years.

change "here's the deal" to
"here's my take"

:thumb:

calphi27
04-23-2010, 11:00 PM
they were hinting at having Tbag play on special teams or as a tight end. I personally can't stand the guy, but from what I have heard, he is a leader. If he can fix his release time, maybe he can play. What about Brady Quinn?

Cutler can throw, but he is not a leader, just a crybaby. He will never take a team to the SB, and I'm glad he is gone.

I'm not too impressed with their draft, but we'll see this fall if they can pull it together. Go Broncos!

Shark Bait
04-26-2010, 06:37 AM
This (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/seven-points-going-early-not-good-for-tebow) is kind of what I was talking about.

wesintl
08-03-2010, 05:10 PM
simpson? think we can trade back for peyton hillis :D

simps80
08-03-2010, 11:15 PM
simpson? think we can trade back for peyton hillis :D

ummm no

we're too busy drafting 2nd and 3rd rounders in the 1st and giving people away because they're not 'mc-dbag's guys'

let's see who are 'mcdaniels guys' so far:
1. know show moreno
2. robert ayers
3. alphonso smith
4. darcel mcbath
5. timmmmmm 'the jersey pusher' tebowwwwww

too bad this isn't the XFL we probably could win a few in that league with mcdaniels drafting for us. ..


we could've had percy harvin, orakpo, brian cushing, clay matthews, among others...oh well....

at least my prediction earlier about tim t-bag selling a lot of jerseys so hopefully we can afford the top 6 pick we get next year seems to be spot on so far, of course by then we'll need a handful of top 10 picks to piece this roster back together after 2 straight years of rounds 1-3 fantastic failures and single handedly blowing up a decent offensive roster.

i'm not bitter