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Corbet
05-03-2010, 07:00 PM
So after winning the National Luna dual battery set up at the raffle I need another battery to complete the system. My plan is to mount the 2nd battery under the truck using the Metal Tech battery tray that bolts up to my sliders. I'll move my accessories like the fridge over to the 2nd battery. I currently have a group 31 blue top Optima. So I could replace my starting battery or get a larger battery to run the accessories.

New starting battery: Die ard Platinum group 65, $200
or
New accessory battery: Deka group 31, $183 or $219 depending on model.

I have a local Deka retailer(Hensley) in Durango so that is easy Or the nearest Sears is an hour away. The biggest advantage to the Die Hard I see is warranty, 4 years full and 100 month prorated. Where the Deka is only 18 month full and 18 month prorated. Plus its probably easier to find a Sears when traveling than a Deka dealer if it fails while on vacation.

Any other batteries I should consider? I have NAPA, Autozone, O'Reilly in Durango. to shop other options.

Snowrun
05-03-2010, 07:24 PM
I like the Diehards from a capacity standpoint, however the issue I ran into is the battery terminals are so close to the edge of the battery that there is a risk of shorting via the tie down. Treeroot fabricated a custom one for me and there are no issues now.
One other thing I like about the Diehards is almost anywhere you go around the country there is a Sears store for replacements if needed.

TIMZTOY
05-03-2010, 09:47 PM
Duralast Cromwell autozone were rated best/strongest battery nationwide in a 3 party test about 3 years ago. I'm sure nothing else has changed. I've used them and love them. Just buy the gold series. They also have the best warrenty.

corsair23
05-03-2010, 10:32 PM
First of all you suck on winning the National Luna system!! :hill:

As for batteries, it seems we are having a bit of "hit and miss" success with the Dekas (see Romer's thread) so maybe the Die Hard is the way to go...

Let me know what you think of the National Luna system once you get it set up...I was talking to Paul about it but based on what I've read I'm thinking for my application with the winch and all it may not be the way to go :confused:

Corbet
05-03-2010, 10:46 PM
what about your winch?

I originally planned to copy Marco's dual battery set up but after winning this it looks like I'll be running the National Luna. Unless I sell it? Romer's Deka's were blems so its hard for me to base a decision on those. Others seem to be happy. I could go with the Die Hard marine group 31 but that one is money at $250

First I need to get the Metal Tech tray and make sure there is room for a group 31 there. It was designed around a smaller group 34 I think? But I much prefer to keep the COG low with it mounted down there.

nakman
05-03-2010, 11:21 PM
Corbet you got this kit right? http://www.equipt1.com/h/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,316/category_id,152/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,31/

so sweet... :drool:

treerootCO
05-03-2010, 11:54 PM
I went this route with the National Luna kit because of the winch. The kit says, do not use anything that comes in this kit if you plan on using a winch. :D
I have the Deka batteries and couldn't be happier.

140 +95 + 70 +50


Pac PAC500 500/700 Amp Power Relay/Battery Weatherproof Isolator PAC500 606523108041 (http://www.directdepot.net/product_info.php?products_id=18527)

EQUIPT Expedition Outfitters - National Luna Intelligent Solenoid (http://www.equipt1.com/h/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,317/category_id,153/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,31/)

EQUIPT Expedition Outfitters - National Luna Dual Battery Controller (with dual audible ala (http://www.equipt1.com/h/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,319/category_id,153/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,31/)

Genuinedealz > Marine Electrical Supply - Boat and Marine Electrical Connectors, Tubing (http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%20Grade%20Wire/Marine%20Battery%20Cable/)

corsair23
05-03-2010, 11:56 PM
what about your winch?

From what I've read and in talking to Paul, the cabling that comes with the kit is a little on the small side for use with winching operations...I think the instructions even mention that as well. Paul's suggestion was to buy the piece parts separate if it was a concern because a lot of the cost of the kit is rolled up in the cabling anyway.

That said, if I won that kit I'd be running it for sure even if I did have to spend some :twocents: to upgrade the cabling :thumb:

Corbet
05-04-2010, 06:33 AM
Corbet you got this kit right? http://www.equipt1.com/h/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,316/category_id,152/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,31/

so sweet... :drool:

Yes, that's the one

I went this route with the National Luna kit because of the winch. The kit says, do not use anything that comes in this kit if you plan on using a winch. :D
I have the Deka batteries and couldn't be happier.

140 +95 + 70 +50


Pac PAC500 500/700 Amp Power Relay/Battery Weatherproof Isolator PAC500 606523108041 (http://www.directdepot.net/product_info.php?products_id=18527)

EQUIPT Expedition Outfitters - National Luna Intelligent Solenoid (http://www.equipt1.com/h/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,317/category_id,153/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,31/)

EQUIPT Expedition Outfitters - National Luna Dual Battery Controller (with dual audible ala (http://www.equipt1.com/h/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,319/category_id,153/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,31/)

Genuinedealz > Marine Electrical Supply - Boat and Marine Electrical Connectors, Tubing (http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%20Grade%20Wire/Marine%20Battery%20Cable/)

Mike, thanks for the links. So you basically just replaced the solenoid and wire with heavier duty stuff. After reading the install instructions that was what I concluded it needed as well. Did you do a write up when did the install? Edit, found it http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=5216&highlight=luna&page=64 But mike why did you link this one but use the Wrangler Power unit in your build?

From what I've read and in talking to Paul, the cabling that comes with the kit is a little on the small side for use with winching operations...I think the instructions even mention that as well. Paul's suggestion was to buy the piece parts separate if it was a concern because a lot of the cost of the kit is rolled up in the cabling anyway.


Search for Marco's dual battery write-up. I think you'll copy his if starting from scratch.

MDH33
05-08-2010, 07:04 AM
If you have a winch, you'll need to upgrade all that cabling.

I installed the National Luna kit in my 60 (no winch) and I love it. Works great and I really like the voltage readouts and controller in the cab. I recently ran my engel 45 for 5 days without starting the rig. It lowere my optima yellow top aux battery down to about 11.8 volts, then auto switched to the other battery (after 4 days). Started right up when I went to leave camp.

Here's the link to my national luna kit install (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10372&highlight=national+luna)

Hants
05-08-2010, 09:02 AM
I am using the Lifeline Group 27 batteries in my dual battery setup. Best deal to be had on them over the years is from DC Batteries (sales@dcbattery.com). They're out of Florida, and have great pricing and shipping is very reasonable (AGM's are NOT hazmat, so they ship normal UPS).

Lifelines are the gold-standard in marine batteries. My Group 27's are rated at 100AH, and just under 190 reserve capacity.

I did a custom dual-battery install -- specifically because of my winch. I've got a constant-duty 600A solenoid, switched by the charge circuit. I've got 1/0 cable between the batteries, and hi-amperage fuses. One of my design criteria was to run the winch off both batteries & the alternator when the engine is running, and the aux battery alone when it isn't.

If you're happy running the winch off of the main battery, you *may* be able to use the National Luna kit as-is. IIRC, it is voltage switched, and when the winch starts drawing more than the alternator puts out, the voltage will drop and the NL solenoid will open.

I dig the NL battery monitors -- not expensive and a great health/charge indicator.

Jacket
05-08-2010, 09:21 AM
I've got the NL system on my Tacoma with dual batteries and a winch. I upgraded my cable to 1 or 2 awg, and I eliminated the 100A fuse (I'd have to recheck the system to recall exactly what I did). Since you won the kit, it's not really a waste to upgrade the wiring and do what you want to do. Plus, since you are talking about getting a nice starting battery, you can just wire the winch directly to that one (I'd recommend the DH Platinum), and then use your blue top for accessories.

Corbet
05-08-2010, 04:41 PM
Still not sure what my plan will be. I really like Marco's set up but if I go that route non of my winnings will be useful. I'll probably just upgrade the solenoid and cable to use what I got.

Either way it will be a while before the Cruiser account has money to complete the install.

MDH33
05-08-2010, 05:19 PM
Still not sure what my plan will be. I really like Marco's set up but if I go that route non of my winnings will be useful. I'll probably just upgrade the solenoid and cable to use what I got.

Either way it will be a while before the Cruiser account has money to complete the install.

I don't think you'll need to upgrade the solenoid with the national luna setup, just the cable.

Corbet
05-08-2010, 11:05 PM
solenoid is rated for 85 amps. Not much when winching. But hard to say how much the winch would draw from the 2nd battery at any given time.

Hants
05-10-2010, 06:37 AM
solenoid is rated for 85 amps. Not much when winching. But hard to say how much the winch would draw from the 2nd battery at any given time.

My guess is that it would be fine, assuming you wire the winch to the PRIMARY battery.

Reason is that the winch draws more than your alternator will put out. Consequently, as soon as the winch powers up, the draw will cause the system voltage to drop to below the 13.x volts that the NL circuitry uses to detect "system charge".

It's probably worth a call to Paul @ Equipt to ask him his recommendations...

treerootCO
05-10-2010, 11:25 AM
To quote superjuice, "Before i bought the hellroaring unit i questioned the amperage rating as being low for winching (300 amps). Their response for an auxiliary battery setup was this: if you are winching off of your main battery then the isolator is not being used....If you are winching with the batteries combined (most likely scenario) then both batteries would share roughly the same amount of amperage. So if your pulling 500 amps then each battery would only have to accommodate 250 amps each, or depending on which battery it is connected to and the state of charge the "other" battery would make up the difference. This makes sense to me and i figure they are a bright bunch of guys to boot, HTH"

Sounds reasonable to me. I added to this in my own head, what happens in the worst case scenario. Such as winching when the engine dies or cannot run. If the truck is laying on it's roof, I wouldn't run the engine. In that case, the winch is capable of pulling 490amps (9000) and would be sharing half that through the isolator. Add to that a battery that is bigger in the aux position and it might go higher. So lets throw out a number like 300 and you are pushing that little solenoid to it's limit. I agree this will probably never happen but we build these things to handle all trouble we can put them in.

Hants
05-10-2010, 11:47 AM
Mike, I'm pretty sure the NL is voltage sensing, and Opens at something like 13.2 volts. If this is indeed true, as soon as he starts winching, the solenoid will open, and *no* charge will be flowing through (winch will only be drawing from primary and alternator).

For reference, running my winch at no-load immediately drops my system voltage to 12.x volts. A significant load drops it to 11.x volts. My winch runs off of both batteries and I set my hand throttle to 2000-2500 rpm during winching, so my voltages are likely higher than typical.

Note: Just checked, it closes at 13.2 volts, and cuts out at 12.7. The surge rating for the solenoid is 400A.