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MattFJ40
06-15-2010, 09:49 AM
My #2 cyl has no compression on my 2F (actually an imp F, but it is basically a 2F). Valves look OK, but I didn't take everything apart. Might be the rings. Anyway, I will probably have the motor rebuilt or buy a used motor and have it installed.

Who thinks I should rebuild? I am leaning toward having a good used motor to replace my current one. Who would be a good/trusted mechanic to do such work? I would do it myself, but things are crazy with a 9 month old at home and I don't want my FJ to be a paperweight for years while I slowly rebuild.

Any suggestions are welcome.

No 350 swap. Want to keep it Toyota.

Pictures are just for fun. No signs of what is wrong that I could see w/o pulling the head and looking inside the beast.

nakman
06-15-2010, 10:00 AM
...Who would be a good/trusted mechanic to do such work? .


This guy can make your 2F scream like a newborn.. :robbie: http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10843

(in a good way!)

Corbet
06-15-2010, 10:07 AM
Robbie is your mechanic.

You may want to perform a leak down test to determine where your actual problem is. Could save you some money if all you really need is some head work.

MattFJ40
06-15-2010, 10:22 AM
This guy can make your 2F scream like a newborn.. :robbie: http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10843

(in a good way!)

I just got off the phone with Robbie. He is going to stop by and take a look.

MattFJ40
06-15-2010, 10:27 AM
Robbie is your mechanic.

You may want to perform a leak down test to determine where your actual problem is. Could save you some money if all you really need is some head work.

I haven't gotten around to that yet. Wasn't sure if it was needed since I have no compression on that cyl and the plug looked like somebody hit it with a hammer. Funny thing is that the motor still runs. If it weren't for the lack of Vacuum when that cyl fires and the fact that it doesn't have compression on that cyl. Idles fine and doesn't make noise yet. I think I just caught it at the start. I am sure if i keep running it there will be a big mech failure (worse than I have now).

Jacket
06-15-2010, 11:50 AM
I just got off the phone with Robbie. He is going to stop by and take a look.

Very impressive. Robbie is road-tripping back from an extended work trip in California, but not too tired to make one last stop and help out a fellow Cruiser owner. Nice.

TIMZTOY
06-15-2010, 12:35 PM
I haven't gotten around to that yet. Wasn't sure if it was needed since I have no compression on that cyl and the plug looked like somebody hit it with a hammer. Funny thing is that the motor still runs. If it weren't for the lack of Vacuum when that cyl fires and the fact that it doesn't have compression on that cyl. Idles fine and doesn't make noise yet. I think I just caught it at the start. I am sure if i keep running it there will be a big mech failure (worse than I have now).

on the contrary. You want to do a leakdown on a cylender With No or bad compression #'s to determin weither it is top end or bottom end. And were the compression loss is generating ie. Intake/exhaust/cooling system/oiling system/ or Cylender blow by.

Air Randy
06-15-2010, 01:54 PM
Do a simple compression test on all 6 cylinders, that will give you a much better idea if you need a total rebuild or just a valve job. If the other 5 cylinders are all within 10% of each other and not too low compared to the factory spec (be sure and adjust for the elevation difference:actual reading divided by .86) you can probably get by without a full rebuild. 0 compression on 1 cylinder could be a blown head gasket, a burnt valce or a cracked valve seat. All are fixed by pulling the head as the first step.

If the engine isn't burning oil in addition to the #2 cylinder issue you probably should just do the valve job.

I am not a big fan of installing used engines unless you are totally desperate or unless you know the engine's real history. Otherwise you could go to a lot of effort to install something that could start giving you a lot of trouble right away.

MattFJ40
06-15-2010, 06:40 PM
Do a simple compression test on all 6 cylinders, that will give you a much better idea if you need a total rebuild or just a valve job. If the other 5 cylinders are all within 10% of each other and not too low compared to the factory spec (be sure and adjust for the elevation difference:actual reading divided by .86) you can probably get by without a full rebuild. 0 compression on 1 cylinder could be a blown head gasket, a burnt valce or a cracked valve seat. All are fixed by pulling the head as the first step.

If the engine isn't burning oil in addition to the #2 cylinder issue you probably should just do the valve job.

I am not a big fan of installing used engines unless you are totally desperate or unless you know the engine's real history. Otherwise you could go to a lot of effort to install something that could start giving you a lot of trouble right away.

I did a compression test on all 6. The motor was cold since I didn't want to run the motor to get it to operating temp. The other 5 had compression that were just OK. One had a zero reading (tried 3 times). No burning of motor oil that I can see. To be honest I have only put 100 miles or so on it since the last change, but 70 of those were hard miles on Moab trails.

I pulled the valve cover, but didn't see anything (untrained eye though). I guess the next step is to pull the head. Then it will be a paperweight so I am not excited about that.

MattFJ40
06-15-2010, 07:25 PM
This guy can make your 2F scream like a newborn.. :robbie: http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10843

(in a good way!)

Anybody else had good luck with Robbie doing work on your rig? I talked to him on the phone and he seems like a good guy.

Nakman - How many miles do you have on your rebuild? Was he able to get the project done on-time/on-budget?

pmccumber
06-15-2010, 08:29 PM
Anybody else had good luck with Robbie doing work on your rig? I talked to him on the phone and he seems like a good guy.


Are you kidding? I'm like the Pied Piper leading my friends to him. I actually look forward to my motor wearing out so he can rebuild it. You need to go to bed tonight and thank your lucky stars we have such fantastic resources here in CO and at the head of the pack is this guy.

Hulk
06-15-2010, 09:55 PM
Yeah, you won't go wrong with Robbie. He won't try to replace parts that still have life in them, but he'll insist that you replace parts that are at the end of their duty cycle. When he's done working on your stuff, it will work well and will keep working for many months to come. His work is an excellent value.

gr8fulabe
06-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Anybody else had good luck with Robbie doing work on your rig? I talked to him on the phone and he seems like a good guy.

Nakman - How many miles do you have on your rebuild? Was he able to get the project done on-time/on-budget?

Hi Matt,
Are you a member of TLCA? If so, open your last issue to the tech section & see who is the author. That should answer any questions about Robbie's skills & knowledge. He is the BOMB in every way. He has worked on or completely fixed my trucks & is absolutely awesome to work with in every way. When I broke my Troopy (Turbo 2H), i was more or less screwed becuase it was over my head & also an engine that basically doesn't exist in the USA, he not only fixed it all for me, but actually took the time to teach me how to do a bunch of different things that I didn't know before. So he basically fixed my truck more cheaply than I ever could have, with phenomenal quality of work, and also spent time eliminating future possible work by teaching me how to do things myself. So I can't say enough great things about him. In fact, I am going to send him an e-mail in a little bit to see if he is interested in fixing some other stuff for me that I can't do myself.

Best,
Abe

MattFJ40
06-16-2010, 07:17 AM
It sounds like there are quite a few folks that had a good experience with Robbie working on their rigs. That is very good to hear. My 40 is my baby and I need to trust whoever works on it. Thanks for all your replies and keep them coming.
I am very interested to hear from Robbie again. He is going to stop by my house next week for a quick visit to take a look at the motor and talk. I will post any news as it comes.

Rzeppa
06-16-2010, 08:18 AM
Hey Matt,

Besides jumping on the Robbie bandwagon (I've known him for a very long time and highly recommend him), I would suggest that since you have the valve cover off, simply check the adjustment of your valves. It could be as simple as your intake not opening on that cylinder because the adjustment loosened up. Always check the simple/easy stuff first!

nakman
06-16-2010, 08:40 AM
Anybody else had good luck with Robbie doing work on your rig? I talked to him on the phone and he seems like a good guy.

Nakman - How many miles do you have on your rebuild? Was he able to get the project done on-time/on-budget?

Matt already been answered pretty well above, but since you asked me... :D yes he's super capable and very fair price-wise. You're talking to one of the best guys available :cool:

CardinalFJ60
06-16-2010, 08:47 AM
Robbie did a full re-build on my 2f...with some 'improvements' :D I am so completely, totally, and utterly thrilled with the work Robbie did.

if you have any questions whatsoever, PM me...I'm happy to discuss the work done and how is awesome it is to work with Robbie.

my FJ60 is also my "baby" - the motor in it came from the FJ60 I learned to drive on. :-) I'm a little obsessive about my Cruiser and won't let anyone other than Robbie work on it.

(can you tell I'm pretty happy with the re-build?? ;-) )

:cheers:

MattFJ40
06-26-2010, 06:28 AM
Robbie stopped by the other day. That guy knows his stuff. It turns out the valve seat is to blame for #2 not having compression. Since I run propane he recommended that I rebuild the head with special seats and exhaust valves even if I source another motor to use.
I have looked at a couple of motors off craigslist and tried to find one that is “good”. They always seem ok until I look at the lifters. My current motor had a little pitting (worst one had 3 pin-tip sized dots). The last motor out of an 84 FJ60 looked like a 10 year old had been shooting it with a BB gun for years. How much pitting is too much? Robbie seemed concerned with the pitting on my motor and so far I haven’t been able to find a motor with no pits on the lifters. Maybe I should just use the current motor and get a new cam/lifters. What do you guys think? If I could gett 30-50K miles I would be happy.

Air Randy
06-26-2010, 08:46 AM
Thats an easy fix, especially if you do it at the same time you pull the head. You can buy a cam from Man-A-Fre with new lifters for about $200 and it will give you a little better performance than the stock cam.

My 74 FJ40 still has the stock cam in it and the lifter lobes are so rounded off it has no top end power. I'm going to be swapping the cam and lifters in it in the next few weeks.

One thing that will help slow down the wear on the new cam and lifters is to run a oil made for high friction engines. Nowadays the only way to get that is to run the oils specified for diesel engines. I run the 15w-40 diesel oil since it has the additives to minimize that type of wear.

MattFJ40
07-06-2010, 10:57 AM
Thats an easy fix, especially if you do it at the same time you pull the head. You can buy a cam from Man-A-Fre with new lifters for about $200 and it will give you a little better performance than the stock cam.

My 74 FJ40 still has the stock cam in it and the lifter lobes are so rounded off it has no top end power. I'm going to be swapping the cam and lifters in it in the next few weeks.

One thing that will help slow down the wear on the new cam and lifters is to run a oil made for high friction engines. Nowadays the only way to get that is to run the oils specified for diesel engines. I run the 15w-40 diesel oil since it has the additives to minimize that type of wear.

Thanks for the input. I ended up getting that cam from man-a-fre. They also recommended running ZDDP+ which is similar to your recommendation about running oil for diesel motors. Has the zinc in it.

Robbie had a project that is running a little long and can't get started on my motor until July 12th now. Right now I have my FJ40 in 100s of pieces. I can't wait to get started putting things back together. I will post some pics when things start to come together.

MattFJ40
07-06-2010, 11:02 AM
There is a fair amount of residue on the block from the old head gasket. Seems the fel-pro gasket is made of some material that basically melts (or seems that way). I purchased some foam gasket remover from an auto store and tried to scrape it off with a razor with little success. I was hunched over the block so long my back went out again. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to get off tough residue on the block from the gasket?

SteveH
07-06-2010, 02:20 PM
My buddy at the Toyota dealer uses small (2"-3" dia) green Scotchbrite pads on a air-die-grinder deal, and it leaves a nice surface finish on both aluminum and iron - and removes all head gasket residue. I would not use it on newer heads that use MLS gaskets and require a fairly exact surface finish. I have seen these disks sold at Checker and even Walmart.

Rzeppa
07-06-2010, 04:47 PM
I use 3M abrasive wheels. They are the shazzam!

http://rzeppa.org/tech/sand4.jpg

Air Randy
07-06-2010, 05:22 PM
It's a 3 step process for me. I use a good sharp gasket scraper tool first to get off as much of the big stuff as possible. Then I use a single edge razor blade to get off the next layer. Then I use an abrasive wheel like jeff recommended to finsih it off and get everything shiny.

The only reason I don't go straight to the abrasive wheel is, I have seen times when a chunk of gasket is really stuck on and the abrasive wheel is starting to wear it down but the gasket piece starts to look the same color/texture as the rest of the head and you end up missing it. This inevitably results in a head gasket leak, I also had the same thing happen to me on a differential gasket. Just my .02.

MattFJ40
07-25-2010, 04:46 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I got most of the gasket off and Robbie finished up the job.

So the motor is back together now. Robbie and I learned a couple of new things about my specifiic year of FJ40. An 11/73 is a 74 model year. It has special head bolt lengths (6 1/4 inch long). Toy discontinued the bolts and I could only find used ones from Spector ($12 each and not all the bolts were usable that they sent). Also, the improved F motor has a cam that is more like the 2F. So Man-A-Fre sent the wrong cam. Good news was that Robbie knew a guy that could drill the correct oil holes in the cam Man-A-Fre sent. Man-A-Fre said they weren't going to replace the cam unless I paid to ship it back, then they would inspect....it was going to take 1-2 weeks according to them if we didn't drill the holes ourselves. Now I am trying to get them to pay the machine shop work. What a pain. Anyway, make sure if you order the cam you inspect it. It is easy to miss.

Romer
07-25-2010, 04:51 PM
Glad to hear its coming together. Robbie can be a clever fellow in getting things done

MattFJ40
07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Here is a pic of the old and new cam.

MattFJ40
07-25-2010, 05:00 PM
We had no oil pressure to the top end when Robbie put the motor together. Had to take it back apart to find the missing/wrong oil holes. Lots of extra work and headaches. Good news is that after Robbie finished up my motor runs better than ever. Robbie does great work. I didn't know my motor should be that quiet. Especially at around 2,000 rpms it is so smooth now. It used to run so rough. Guess I never knew how it should sound until now.

Running hot right now for some reason, but I am working on that. Also, I had Robbie install a speedi sleeve on the transfer rear output. That seemed to make it leak more. Not sure why as the seal was only 300 miles old. Robbie suggested I pull the seal and use a Toy part instead of the knock-off. I went to Coney Flats this weekend and it is leaking even more now so I will have to get that fixed. I have replaced the myself several times already so any suggestions would be helpful. I even had a guy install it for me last time. Guess having Robbie do it is my next step.

Rzeppa
07-26-2010, 10:46 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I got most of the gasket off and Robbie finished up the job.

So the motor is back together now. Robbie and I learned a couple of new things about my specifiic year of FJ40. An 11/73 is a 74 model year. It has special head bolt lengths (6 1/4 inch long). Toy discontinued the bolts and I could only find used ones from Spector ($12 each and not all the bolts were usable that they sent). Also, the improved F motor has a cam that is more like the 2F. So Man-A-Fre sent the wrong cam. Good news was that Robbie knew a guy that could drill the correct oil holes in the cam Man-A-Fre sent. Man-A-Fre said they weren't going to replace the cam unless I paid to ship it back, then they would inspect....it was going to take 1-2 weeks according to them if we didn't drill the holes ourselves. Now I am trying to get them to pay the machine shop work. What a pain. Anyway, make sure if you order the cam you inspect it. It is easy to miss.

That is correct, the 1974 F was a transition year. It still had many of the attributes of the prior F engines including bore and stamped rocker cover, but in that year they changed the oiling plumbing and ran the rocker oil up through the tower as normal for 2Fs. One of the ways you can spot that year's F is that the oil filter will be mounted in the 2F location in front of the distributor on the block, instead of the F location on the bracket on the intake manifold with the hoses that run to and from the block.

The F oiling scheme oils the rocker through the cross drilled holes in the cam #2 journal where it goes up to the rocker in a tube to a banjo fitting, while the 2F oiling system it gets pumped through cam journal #3 directly up through galleries in the block and rocker tower.

Most aftermarket cams I have seen are cross drilled in both #2 and #3 journals so they can be used in either F or 2F applications. I am little surprised MAF didn't know better.

Air Randy
07-26-2010, 11:42 AM
You can try replacing the output seal with an OEM seal. If you do, be sure and put high oil resistant silicone (grey or super black) on the output shaft splines. Some times that can be the source of your leak even if the seal is fine.

If that doesn't work you can send your output shaft seal housing to a guy on MUD who goes by the forum name of MUDRAK. He machines out the housing and then installs double seals into it.