PDA

View Full Version : Backwoods Goop


rover67
06-24-2010, 05:03 PM
Pretty sure some of you folks have seen this already, but it is entertaining.

not sure i'd spend much time reading it all unless you've got a few minutes to kill.

I don't think there is much merit in what he is selling.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/394592-toyota-core-axle.html

Maybe i'll get flamed for bringing the infection onto this board as well..

powderpig
06-25-2010, 08:38 AM
This was one of the reasons I was wanting to look in older books(Just have not made the time yet).
I have more than a couple of e-mails from him and Todd.

I will keep my personal comments out of general areas, but if you want to take this to a locked area, I will comment.

thefatkid
06-25-2010, 09:39 AM
I have some late 70s FSM if that helps Robbie

powderpig
06-25-2010, 09:49 AM
Thanks Brian:
I believe I have a line on a couple of real old ones to check something out, just need to make the time to get by their houses.
.

coax
06-25-2010, 10:22 AM
So, did I miss something from that Mud post? Is the whole purpose of switching lube types to ensure that the upper trunion bearing is properly lubed? Isn't that one of the least likely bearings to fail on the front axle? I guess I'm not getting the benefit of switching.

AxleIke
06-25-2010, 10:26 AM
Uh, what? I don't understand any of what is going on there. Who is Backwoods Goop and Tranny Frank, and why do people care so much about the grease that goes in their birfs?

AxleIke
06-25-2010, 10:27 AM
So, did I miss something from that Mud post? Is the whole purpose of switching lube types to ensure that the upper trunion bearing is properly lubed? Isn't that one of the least likely bearings to fail on the front axle? I guess I'm not getting the benefit of switching.

Good point. Although the trunion bearings fail pretty regularly in the mini truck world when people are running big tires and hard trails.

Jacket
06-25-2010, 10:27 AM
Maybe i'll get flamed for bringing the infection onto this board as well..

Jerk. :bored:

AxleIke
06-25-2010, 10:28 AM
Also, am I wrong in going with whatever my owner's manual says to use for lubrication? I've never bothered to use anything else. FWIW, my wheel bearings have 301K on them.

wesintl
06-25-2010, 10:36 AM
I can't even understand that thread with flames and real info all mixed in. TF can't quote to save his life which makes reading it painful.

I dunno, MEH. I'm moving on with my life :D

DaveInDenver
06-25-2010, 10:48 AM
Uh, what? I don't understand any of what is going on there. Who is Backwoods Goop and Tranny Frank, and why do people care so much about the grease that goes in their birfs?
Took me a while to get up to speed, too. I rarely read IH8MUD. Apparently the dude is suggesting to replace the grease in the knuckles with something less viscous. This might be a valid problem in an 80 series that is spinning all the time. I mean in IFS trucks the lube Toyota includes with the CV rebuild kits does seem thinner (it comes in glorified toothpaste tubes fer goodness sakes) than what I remember using in knuckle rebuilds. But being that there are good rubber boots to seal it in it does not weep out. I suppose it's a problem if you think that 40s and 60s with decades old axles somehow constitutes a 'flawed' design or maintenance schedule. Now in the full time 4WD 80 series, maybe there's a legit question since their Birfs do wear out in normal operation. Personally on the old junk we have I think Toyota proved they mostly did things right and so I follow the Mama Ship Plan (IOW, the FSM) with rare exception to known issues.

powderpig
06-26-2010, 07:53 AM
Well this guy is suggesting that Toyota ran a recall on all solid axles truck in the past and switched them out here in the USA( OK os his style of grease was in land crusiers and truck in Japan and sent to the USA and the grease was switch in). All this was secret:thumb:.
He is interested in one thing only( IMHO) to sell this Backwoods goop. He quotes old jeep manuals, Dana manuals, train manuals. But has no Toyota information to back it up(says this is all secret and mistakes were made in the service manuals). He avoids questions at time, only give information he want to push down peoples throat. All under the guize of wanting to do the right thing for our Toyota Trucks.
He blames the upper knuckle bearing for failing, but discounts that the lower bearing wears faster(at least what I have seen). The big failures are when the axle is not service on Toyota schedule and wear is greater than the bearing can handle, then all sh*t breaks loose.
Anyhow I have talked to one Oldtimer that started back in the late seventys wrenching on Toyota's and he said there was never a secret recall. Anyhow, Take this guy with a big pile of Salt. maybe he can provide usefull information in the future when he test this stuff more.
It is incompatable with Lithum based greases, it will mess up the wheel bearing grease the FSM requires you to run. His suggestion when ask about this, Run his #0 based lube in the wheel bearings. So Toyota is wrong in two areas. :confused:
Anyhow this in not all I know, but hope this information I know about this helps you. :cheers:

AxleIke
06-26-2010, 08:21 AM
Pfft.

Well thats pretty funny. Sounds like all the other internet "experts" out there. Best thing that can happen is for everyone to stop paying attention to him.

DaveInDenver
06-26-2010, 08:34 AM
Sounds like all the other internet "experts" out there.
Hmmm, Robbie, 50 years of Toyota truck history or some random Internet guy. Hard choice who to trust, eh?

rover67
06-27-2010, 12:03 AM
For some reason it is hard not to get wrapped up in his arguments.

He seems like a total nut though. I mean none of his arguments even begin to make sense.
Robbie, you seem to have spent quite a bit of time corresponding with him, hopefully you got something out of it.

powderpig
06-27-2010, 08:05 AM
Most of the info this guys spews is based on the idea that Toyota is wrong and needs to be using what the domestic manifactures were using at the time. Which = leaking knuckles. Toyota (I believe) went to a #2 grease for a reason, longer intervals between fills and to keep the knuckles cleaner.
How many Rovers do you see with leaking knuckles? What he is proposing is using something similar to the Rover goop that is installed in there knuckles.
While it works and works well for Rover. I do not want a leaking mess at my knuckles. This soduim based grease does not have good water repellance, but will pull water away from metal(according to Frank).
Which if it gets through the spindle to the wheel bearing it will destroy the grease and take out wheel bearings. Becasue it does not play nice with Lithium based greases. So Toyota would be wrong to use it recommend greases twice, not just once.
The biggest thing I do not like is the conspirecy theory that Toyota is knownly screwing people in it Tech manuals and has for 60 years.
The worst part Marco, it he has some newbies believing him on some other forums. Mostly because they are new to working on there own junk.
Yes, I have a different prespective on Lubes now. some more information to look at and make choices about.

corsair23
06-28-2010, 05:20 PM
Speaking of grease...

bqvq5IHjHTg

I don't see the backwoods goop in the test but the others tested are pretty interesting.

coax
06-28-2010, 05:49 PM
The worst part Marco, it he has some newbies believing him on some other forums. Mostly because they are new to working on there own junk.

Thats kinda scarry :eek: Being a n00b myself, I try and stick with 2 principles when it comes to that kind of stuff.


Go with what the manual recommends. Without a lot of experience or knowledge on my end to back up some new-fangled idea, its better to stick with what was published as the "tested" way in the FSM
Type/brand of grease/oil/etc doesn't matter nearly as much as just making sure there IS grease/oil/etc present. Can't count the # of posts on mud where its debated what brand is better than others. While I'm sure one brand IS better, it's a moot point if your driving around without grease in your knuckles trying to figure out which is the best.


Rule #2 assumes of course that you follow rule #1. :D

rover67
06-28-2010, 05:55 PM
Seems like he is just enjoying ruffling people's feathers. Odd that he's done it on so many boards.

powderpig
06-29-2010, 08:30 AM
I truly think he wants to make money off his product that is made in Brazil(I believe I saw this in a post on the thread) or India. Is not used on any USA made car or truck.
If he could get people to buy into it and he is the exclusive reseller of the stuff. Think how money he could make. But first he has to get people to buy in. He is not very successful at it right now.
I got a special treat, I got to read the 9 pages of the 1st thread he was banned from Twice. Interesting to say the least.
Still has not learned to many manors or how to treat people professionally.
We will see if he comes back.

60wag
06-29-2010, 07:46 PM
If the rec'd grease actually had a problem and resulted in high maintenance, maybe there'd be a need for the stuff. Even in full time 4 wheel drive 80s, the stock grease holds up pretty well and the birfs have a long life. Why would I bother with some soupy goop that won't stay where it belongs? I get the need for extreme pressure lubrication properties and maybe being submersed in oil can theoretically do a better job but again, the grease works pretty well.

I know many will disagree but I think of this stuff is like synthetic oil.... Maybe it'll make my engine (or birfs) last forever but if its contaminated with water and combustion crap, I'd just as soon do more frequent changes with the dino based products at a reasonable cost. Now if my motor has a hot turbo and a history of sludge problems, I'll put up the money for full synthetic as I do with my SAAB but why seek out solutions for non-problems?

Tranny Frank
07-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Howdy Colorado Cruisers

This information should be in your FSM. What is identified as "Birfield Soup" is a form of grease in the #0 form.

This is what the enclosed steering knuckle has used for 70 years,

From a lube standpoint it is obvious that a semi fluid grease should be used in this application.
There is 0 advantage to using a #2 grease, in this application,
When I fist went on IH8mush, they told me several things about the design that either did not exist or flat out could not happen, I was confounded at the confusion and quickly learned it was intentional., Toyota 4- runner forum is the only place that will let me post the info, general discussion section entitled Mushroom factory,

Frank

thefatkid
07-05-2010, 04:53 PM
....

The article you pictured is for a Jeep of some sorts or a general automotive text book for American vehicles, not Toyota. Post information where Toyota has specified the lubrication described in the closed knuckle axle design.

I'm a Toyota MDT, all service information provided only recommends Molybdenum Disulfide Lithium based grease (NLGI No.2)

Why does Toyota recommend #2 moly lithium grease?

Tranny Frank
07-05-2010, 05:58 PM
I have no idea, it is not what they fill them up with,
but dont feel bad most on-line Jeepers do not know about this stuff either, while the information is in their book from day one,

You see I have been bouncing back and forth from Jeep and Toyota forums, gathering information, to me and a lot of other folks its the same thing, with a different name

60wag
07-05-2010, 06:11 PM
Tranny Frank, I know you've gotten a rash of sh** on MUD for posting over there. Now you're here. The thing you've posted is odd in that you make a point regarding closed knuckle joints and then post a ref that doesn't say anything about closed knuckle joints. It does mention sodium and lithium based greases as non compatible. Ok, are you still using sodium based grease in your wheel bearings? If I was driving a CJ-3A, maybe that'd be an ok choice. For the rest of us that are mostly driving vehicles with disc brakes, lithium based grease has better temperture (and water) stability.

The FSM for my Toyota Land Cruiser rec's NGLI 2 lithium based grease for both the wheel bearings and Birfield joints in my front axle. At a 140,000 miles (full time 4wd), one of the birfs was showing some wear so I replaced it with a USED one that looked better. Why would anyone want to use different lubricants for the for the bearing and birf parts when the same lube works just fine?

Where are you getting the NLGI 0 ref' ?

thefatkid
07-05-2010, 08:00 PM
I have no idea, it is not what they fill them up with,
but dont feel bad most on-line Jeepers do not know about this stuff either, while the information is in their book from day one,

You see I have been bouncing back and forth from Jeep and Toyota forums, gathering information, to me and a lot of other folks its the same thing, with a different name

Your talk is just that, talk. Show proof that Toyota installed your 0 sodium based lubricant in the LC front closed knuckle or wheel bearings. I have serviced many different models of wheel bearings with OEM lubricants and can say with conviction that they are lithium based grease with a higher then 1 lubricant thickness. Every modern Toyota repair manual has recommended NLGI #2 for wheel bearings and knuckle service. The manual for a 1967 FJ-40 didn't specify a grease for the knuckles or wheel bearings other then "general purpose grease", that model was a drum brake vehicle though.

Lithium grease is rated at higher temperatures then sodium (to help combat the heat created by modern disk brakes). Lithium based greases are recommend for high moisture areas.

Almost all automotive manufactures stopped using sodium based grease 50 years ago due to it's reaction with water. That reason alone should stop any respectable 4wd owner from pedaling this stuff. http://www.made-from-india.com/showroom/barodagreases/products/Wheel-Bearing-Grease---Automotive-Grease_55113.html (just to prove it's not recommended for wet applications)

Don't feel bad though, you have been misinformed. Jeeps are not Toyota.

edit:I'll split the cost of a lubricant test on the next LC 100 front wheel bearing pack with you, just to prove either way........

Tranny Frank
07-05-2010, 08:16 PM
Ok, drop points, the temp at which a grease will fall off, they can range up to 500 degrees.

many wheel bearings are lubricated by gear oil, large semi trucks, and rear differentials, this gear oil has a room temp drop point,

If it compleatly submersed in the lube it has no where to drop to, doesnt apply in this application,
The temp would have to get to the point where the oil in the grease will cok up by then you would have boiled your brake fluid and crashed


Water intrusion, while these types of greases are known for water washout, you wouldnt use it in a water pump, however this is not to be confused with the ability to absorb moisture and draw it from steel parts,

The area of concern with this aspect of the lube is the protection that it provides on the exposed steel ball, that is why it is recommended to rotate the steering wheel lock to lock when driving in wet and freezing conditions\

The #0 rating is found in the same book that told me of this grease I have never heard of, it also mentions to use a #1 grease for warmer conditions, all I can say is that it must have been cold when they shipped the 100 willies Jeeps to Japan in 1950, the Toyota BJ Jeep. because thats what the 1988 Toyota land crusier that I worked on had in it, a semi fluid grease,

I have a chip on my shoulder because I have been dealing with trained professionals with BS degrees.
If you wish to have straight talk on your straight axle, I will be more than happy until now the messenger has been treated poorly,

I have been called every name in the book, so I dont care, and rather to be expected in situations like these,

At some point you will tell me that you have known this all along.,

Thanks Frank

60wag
07-05-2010, 08:27 PM
I think your '88 Cruiser that had soup in the birfs had #2 grease that was contaminated with gear oil from the diff.

I'm done.

Tranny Frank
07-05-2010, 08:45 PM
"If you know what you're doing, then you aren't learning anything." - A. Lincoln

Take heed from your quote, it applys here.

subzali
07-05-2010, 11:04 PM
Frank, I'm just speaking for myself.

That quote only applies if you're trying to teach us something. The facts, from what I have seen, is that you don't have any proof of your claim. I'm not going to get caught up in the fine points of your arguments and suppositions (like, "all I can say is that it must have been cold when they shipped the 100 willies Jeeps to Japan in 1950"), all I know is that there are millions of miles that Toyotas have been driven on the lubricants that they were specified to use from TOYOTA - not some locomotive, industrial truck, Jeep (wrong vehicle and completely different design BTW) or other internet peddling "source" of information. You have nothing to teach us that we need to learn, you're not welcome here (in my opinion), and I hope the mods kick you off for spamming us. 60wag is right, BTW, about your so-called "'88 Cruiser" diff soup.

thefatkid
07-05-2010, 11:16 PM
Ok, drop points, the temp at which a grease will fall off, they can range up to 500 degrees.

We are not talking about drop points here. Toyota only recommends NLGI#2. We are talking about factory recommended lubrication.

many wheel bearings are lubricated by gear oil, large semi trucks, and rear differentials, this gear oil has a room temp drop point,

Large Semi truck wheel bearings (full size American trucks even though you didn't mention them)......not a Toyota. Remember though, those bearings call for that lubrication and have a different preload setup specification to the lighter weight lubrication. Rear differentials use GL5 not sure what that has to do with this discussion.

If it compleatly submersed in the lube it has no where to drop to, doesnt apply in this application,
The temp would have to get to the point where the oil in the grease will cok up by then you would have boiled your brake fluid and crashed

Lubrication begins to break down when temperature increases. The life of the lubrication will decrease the closer you get to it's maximum operating temperature, safety margins. Also remember rotor and hub temperatures don't equal brake pad and fluid temperatures.


Water intrusion, while these types of greases are known for water washout, you wouldnt use it in a water pump, however this is not to be confused with the ability to absorb moisture and draw it from steel parts,

Lithium based grease is not dissolved by water so water entry into the knuckle will drip out without removing any of the lubrication. Sodium/soap based greases are absorbed by the water and washed out when the water drains from the knuckle. They are specifically not recommended in places where water can come in contact with them (ie, wet roads, stream fording, mud holes).

The area of concern with this aspect of the lube is the protection that it provides on the exposed steel ball, that is why it is recommended to rotate the steering wheel lock to lock when driving in wet and freezing conditions\

There is no real way to keep lubrication from becoming more viscous when temperatures decrease. The grease will thicken as temperature decreases. Even your 0 weight will thicken. There are some synthetics that are more temperature stable and would be a better option in extream cold. As for the recommendation to turn the wheels lock to lock while freezing and wet is to break the ice free and prevent and accidents due to ice buildup on steering and brake componets.

The #0 rating is found in the same book that told me of this grease I have never heard of, it also mentions to use a #1 grease for warmer conditions, all I can say is that it must have been cold when they shipped the 100 willies Jeeps to Japan in 1950, the Toyota BJ Jeep. because thats what the 1988 Toyota land crusier that I worked on had in it, a semi fluid grease,

Once again, A Toyota BJ-40 is not a Willies Overland Jeep, you can't take a repair manual from one manufacturer and use it on another, all the specification will be different. Toyota didn't make a carbon copy of the willies jeep.

A 1988 FJ was specified to use the moly lithium NLGI #2 grease, it is grey in color with a slight hint of green from gear oil contamination. When installed in the knuckle it is almost liquid, to the point it is hard to not have it drip out when assembling. After being run for as little as 500 miles the grease becomes more liquid and free, if you remove the knuckle it will run out (about 1 weight new). If contaminated with gear oil it will pour out (about 0 weight when new).

I have a chip on my shoulder because I have been dealing with trained professionals with BS degrees.
If you wish to have straight talk on your straight axle, I will be more than happy until now the messenger has been treated poorly,

My "chip" comes because you can't prove that this product was installed or ever recommended by Toyota for the market your trying to reach. Your pushing a product from the dark ages of the automotive industry when there are newer, cleaner, better suited products on the market.

I have been called every name in the book, so I dont care, and rather to be expected in situations like these,

At some point you will tell me that you have known this all along.,

No one here has called you names, yet. :D Just trying to get the correct information to the unknowing public.

Thanks Frank




Reply in red to help with the flow.

thefatkid
07-05-2010, 11:18 PM
"If you know what you're doing, then you aren't learning anything." - A. Lincoln

Take heed from your quote, it applys here.

I think the automotive industry follows this mantra very close, the real reason they stopped using this product 50 years ago......

Look up Kaizen :thumb:

bvb
07-05-2010, 11:24 PM
Having done warranty work on new FJ40s, serviced Cruisers since the 70s and mini's since the first ones hit the ground (late 70s), this guy is full of J**p. I've never seen goop like he is describing unless you wait till the inner axle seals are leaking bad, you could then describe the goop you'd find as black soup. :banghead:

My bet is just like the FSM manual says, a little maintainence, the recommended fluids or grease and your rig will keep on running. Why would you spend money on a product that isn't backed or proven, only supported by a 1940s Jeep owners manual that wasn't even equipped with a true birfield?:confused:

Just had to give a true account of what really was going on in them days (did I date myself)? That is only my 2 cents for the good of the community! :beer::beer::beer:

Tranny Frank
07-06-2010, 10:47 AM
Fat kid Take the time to research this form of grease and general grease facts,
The first thing you need to do is get off the computer and go visit a oil and grease specialist, and ask him for some moly based grease, that the fellow that works at Toyota propaganda services indicated thats what was used at the factory for initial fill, and what was required under warranty, at the mushroom factory ,Ih8mush

The oil and grease specialist will tell you that form of grease does not exist.,


You all want proof,

Well the Proof is in the pudding as old school Jeepers call it

The Proof is in the "Birfield soup" as Toyota guys call it,

And the Proof of the intentional mis-leading information is on the Toyota 4-runner forum general discussions section, Mushroom factory, Thread, straight from the top,

We will see soon if this fine forum is under the influence of the Toyota propaganda machine, Grease or lube issues aside, there are several things that I have proven without a doubt that are possible or actually exist in the design that the boys at the Mushroom factory tried to tell me, Sure it was my fist axle, but everything about the design , the engineering both from when it was fist on the drawing board and some 10 years later, when it was on the drawing board again,

All of the improvements Toyota made revolved around the fact that this design was meant to contain a semi fluid grease,

#1 Addition wheel bearing seal,.
#2 location of the fill plug
#3 oil drain in spindle in case of seal failure,
And no this is not a spot for potential leakage after the viscous fluid warms up as mentioned by the first Toyota propaganda clown that I met on IH8mush that identified himself as working at "Toyota information services,".,,

#4 the baffle just behind the little axle seal that I was told flat out did not exist, it does I took a picture of it, it may not be in early models but 81 and up it sure does

#5 fluid flow thru the spindle, not only possible but designed to do so,
I caught a ton of flack over that little point it was unbelievable.

If I am banned for presenting this information that is factually true from more than 3 big Toyota websites is quite clear to me that this information would rather be discarded as spam, well it aint.





.

AxleIke
07-06-2010, 11:11 AM
This is hilarious.

Have fun pushing your product dude. I'll keep running the same old factory recommended grease that I have been. Wheel bearings have 300,000 miles on them, still running strong. Been repacked with the factory specified grease every time.

By the way, toyota is paying me to say that. So is jeep, and the CIA. And the russians. And ford. And the grease manufacturers. And the president. Its all a huge, huge conspiracy. Jeeps are in fact Toyotas, and toyotas are in fact semi trucks. Everything is one and the same in the world man.

Ladies and gentlemen, let this be a perfect example of why NOT to post online while high on crack.

Crash
07-06-2010, 11:15 AM
This is hilarious.

<snip>

Ladies and gentlemen, let this be a perfect example of why NOT to post online while high on crack.

Isaac, are you referring to Marco for bringing this thread to life on the RS forum? I don't think he smokes crack. :lmao:

rover67
07-06-2010, 11:23 AM
Isaac, are you referring to Marco for bringing this thread to life on the RS forum? I don't think he smokes crack. :lmao:

:lmao: you just made me laugh :)

Yeah, it's clear now that there is nothing usefull here.. and the entertainment value is kinda gone too.

FJBRADY
07-06-2010, 11:24 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, let this be a perfect example of why NOT to post online while high on crack.

He must be a gansta then!

Crash
07-06-2010, 11:30 AM
:lmao: you just made me laugh :)

Yeah, it's clear now that there is nothing usefull here.. and the entertainment value is kinda gone too.

Making you laugh was my aim, Marco, and I'm glad to have succeeded.
:cheers:

AxleIke
07-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Isaac, are you referring to Marco for bringing this thread to life on the RS forum? I don't think he smokes crack. :lmao:

LOL. No, Marco is da man. Referring to our new "expert" on grease.

By the way, did you know that the best way to get people to buy your product is to insult them? Seems to be working wonders here at Rising Sun. How many customers does this dude have?

Tranny Frank
07-06-2010, 02:48 PM
Steve Turchet, wrote a article on this subject, while he indicates to use a gear oil, from a lube aspect this would be ideal, but containment is a issue, I have sent him the info that I have compiled.

But what he does point out is the disadvantage of using a #2 thick grease, and he is talking about a Toyota, a 1965 rig, and the basic design hasnt changed till they quit in 1997, except for disc brakes,

This was posted on Ih8mush and reffered to as a historic reference that did not apply
Well what you have in this straight axle is a historic design, so I am not alone,
I have talked to owners of shops that have recognized Birfield soup as a form of lube, checked into it and couldnt find any thing,

so while you have fun at my expense carry on but at some point some-one with real world knowledge on this subject will understand,

http://www.militarytrader.com/article/MV_BALL_KNUCKLE_SERVICE/

wesintl
07-06-2010, 03:34 PM
He is wrong.. what do you think of that? Just because he wrote and article doesn't mean it's right. In the toyota closed knuckle the upper steering pivot bearing (as described in the article) are not meant to be lubed by a splash of oil. plain and simple.

You are a forum troll trying to peddle your wares... just go away. We're not buying snake oil today.

Crash
07-06-2010, 04:49 PM
<snip>

But what he does point out is the disadvantage of using a #2 thick grease, and he is talking about a Toyota, a 1965 rig, and the basic design hasnt changed till they quit in 1997, except for disc brakes,

<snip>

http://www.militarytrader.com/article/MV_BALL_KNUCKLE_SERVICE/

Yes, the basic design of the CV joint was changed between 1965 and 1997. In mid-'67 the CV joint was changed from a sort of ball joint to the Birfield joint. That may be picking nits and I doubt that makes any difference to you, but at least get your facts right.

Tranny Frank
07-06-2010, 04:56 PM
He is wrong.. what do you think of that?

I think he is closer to the target than #2 grease, and at the very least if he would have topped off the semi fluid with a gear oil, he wouldnt have followed the FSM and used a incompatible base that causes a chemical reaction which in turn allows the oil in the grease to puke out of the wiper seal,and then he wouldnt have blamed the little axle seal for all the trouble,
no He has a preety good handle on the situation, just a little to thin, but afterall he is going with personal mechanical knowledge, not what some wacky professor teaches at Toyota university that has brainwashed the on line minions thru various Mushroom Factory's

That,s what I think,

AxleIke
07-06-2010, 05:00 PM
If I fill the knuckles with oil, as you suggest, and it all leaks out within a few days, how is that better than grease?

powderpig
07-06-2010, 05:06 PM
The problem is he does not get his facts right. The article he refers to starts out talking about Steve's old land cruiser but the pictures and the rest of the article is about a old military Jeep.
This is very typical of you Frank. You are getting better the more you type. As Wes says, I also agree. You need to go away. Many other people that are respected have not bitten on your line of misinformation(that you have tried for over a year to pander). Toyota's seal system is similar, but not the same. The pics shown would hold your goop way better than Toyota's current system. Why, Well the felt is in a different position on the MV design. Allowing the goop to saturate the felt better. Toyota's system is steel first, rubber, then felt. Similar but not the same.
Still like a salmon, swimming up stream to it's death.
I have suggested a couple of times now a good solution that you do not want to hear.
Spend some money, get some new parts, install them in a 80 series land cruiser and hire some one to drive the snot out of it. One side your goop and the other Toyota spec grease(not moly based, but moly additive, not #0 weight, #2).
Then have stuff tested by a lab, have the guy keep pictures and notes. Tear it all down after a year, and take pic on the wear.
Just can not take a hint.

Tranny Frank
07-06-2010, 05:09 PM
If I fill the knuckles with oil, as you suggest, and it all leaks out within a few days, how is that better than grease?
__________________

Technically a grease in the #0 form that has more than 80% base oil
That is what is used for initial fill at the factory, what is has been used for 70 some years, only it is now known as "Birfield Soup"

It is a form of grease known for its adhesion characteristics,used in areas that are prone to leakage, seldom seen and rarely used is how I have seen it described,

I will change that around and tell you that it is often seen and rarely identified in Toyota circles,
But understandable since you have so much mis leaking information getting piped into these circles,

wesintl
07-06-2010, 05:22 PM
But understandable since you have so much mis leaking information getting piped into these circles,

and you do nothing but solidify this information since you can't back up anything you say with real world data or pics on a toyota nor can you speak or write/quote eloquently enough to convince even the slightest person on the fence.

calling people minions, referring to ih8mush.. you will *never* get any toyota people to believe you even if you were right. :lmao:

Tranny Frank
07-06-2010, 05:28 PM
Steve Tuchet considers the 65 land crusier and the Jeep design to be nearly identical

Actually the wiper seals can interchange from the DANA axle on some models are interchangable to the Toyota axle
Is there special Toyota Rubber??? is there special Toyota Felt,?? nope same stuff

You want me to test all of this?? no Robbie the tests have been done. You turn your nose up at the test done by Texaco and the Rail Road,

No grease is grease no matter if it is in a lawn mower or a Fancy Toyota or a locomotive

IT is to reduce friction, between metal parts, You also seem to think that A test done in 1985 are to old

Well go talk to a shaffers oil rep, he will tell you that they still use procedures from a 100 years ago to brew up grease cause its better and by the way they use the highest concentration of Molybedendite 6%

And please tell Robbie why the proffessor at Toyota university is so misguided on this subject. From how he writes seems very well educated,
so bring him in so we can discuss the finer details of this design

Bring in your leader. Bring in the proffessor at this propaganda university, then maybee Robbie ,I can get you out of the Mushroom Factory,

wesintl
07-06-2010, 05:37 PM
God told me to use lard... I have verified this is a superior lubricant to birfield soup and a independent lab that is certified 9006 confirmed this. The best part is if you breakdown and it cannot be fixed in the bush you can survive on it for days til you are rescued. Your backwoods goop is clearly deficient.

powderpig
07-06-2010, 05:44 PM
Frank
Again I will state this. I gave the information about Toyota University for you to contact them. It is not up to me to do your leg work for you. Again, taking information and twisting it to your mis guided use of information is just plain wrong and you loose respect for what you are doing. It is one reason, I do not trust what you are doing. I have been at this for almost 2 months, both on e-mails and Ih8mud. I have read everything from you and seen how much more knowledge you have gained over the last year. And how you have twisted information others have given you to fit what you want to have others hear as truth. You do not have a truth, you have fabricated lies and twisted information so other will listen to you. and you say to me I live in a mushroom factory. That is a laugh.

If it was in my power to ban you from this site, I would. But it is not.

I am not in a mushroom factory, far from it.

Maybe you need to live in a community and get respect first. This only comes from giving respect to others and other knowledge, with time you gain respect. Giving facts and backing them up with information people ask for, not just what you think is the "right information". By disrespecting others, others will not respect you.

Tranny Frank
07-06-2010, 06:08 PM
"Why, Well the felt is in a different position on the MV design. Allowing the goop to saturate the felt better. Toyota's system is steel first, rubber, then felt. Similar but not the same."

This is the same on the DANA axle Robbie Samo Samo identical design Identical parts Identical assembly order, being a mechanical editor you should get your facts straight here.

All along I have been attempting to establish If you are sucking it up at the Mushroom Factory or one of the pumpers

I am still on the fence with that one, hopefully your just mislead, but it can happen. I have stated my position from day one, and it has not changed, the information that I have presented is as accurate as It can possibly be. The only thing that I did not have the exact correct info is that I was told the grease scale went up to #2 but when I first met Kurt he informed me That it went To #6 thats it, but I did learn something,

Same parts same assembly order,

Tranny Frank
07-06-2010, 06:20 PM
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/general-discussions/56792-toyota-trade-secret.html

Hulk
07-06-2010, 06:32 PM
I am closing this thread. Tranny Frank, most of the same audience on this forum is also on ih8mud.com. Feel free to continue the discussion there. This forum is for local activities involving our local club.