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Rezarf
07-31-2010, 09:27 PM
Well, I will kick off the thread. It was a great day of wheelin' with new and old friends. We had 19 rigs total... I think, Treeroot join in a little into the trail.

We had mild stock 40's to built up rock crawlers. Great trails, beautiful high country views, we scooted around most of the weather, and had a few vapor lock issues.

Martin did an AMAZING job of leading and dealing with the 134 "golf carts" on the trail today. Martin really did a great job, thanks again man!:thumb: :beer::beer:

We saw some mountain goats with a baby in tow.

It was a great run. We didn't bring a camera, so I will have to wait for the others to post up. We DID have some cool shots of nearly 20 40's (one fj40) coming up and over the pass.

Great run, I was glad to make it.:thumb:

Dr. Schlegs
07-31-2010, 10:27 PM
Here are some random pics. Sorry some are out of focus, Ricardo wouldn't slow down. He must have been in a hurry to get home.

Dr. Schlegs
07-31-2010, 10:31 PM
More pics.
20041

20042

20043

20044

20045

AFA FJ40
08-01-2010, 12:05 AM
Hey, just wanted to say thanks for the great 40's only ride! :D
19 rigs, great weather and great people!
"Billy" was on Wise mountain looking out for us.

I gave all my pics to Martin, here are a couple...I will let Martin decide what else to post up...(yep, passing the buck):lmao:


Keep those 40's alive for next year!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/4848013839_0045768d42_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4150/4848635474_78b57a0c77_b.jpg

MDH33
08-01-2010, 06:18 AM
Thanks everyone for coming out for the 40's Only Run! I had a great time and hope everyone else did as well. It was a big group, but we made it through with the minimum of problems. Like Drew said, a few vapor locked rigs (including mine) and tons of atv and motorcycle traffic, but overall, it went really well.

Thanks again Rui for the pics! I'll get them uploaded tonight after I get home from work and post some up. Have to save some for a Toyota Trails article too. :thumb:

Thanks again, hope to see you all on the trail again soon. :beer:

MountainGoat
08-01-2010, 07:43 AM
That was another epic 40's run. The weather gods smiled upon us, the mountain goats showed their appreciation of old iron and the Land Cruisers conquered the mountain yet again.

:bowdown: :zilla:

Thanks for doing such a terrific job Martin. I reckon Joe was pretty impressed with his kid! :thumb:

84cruzer
08-01-2010, 08:22 AM
Thats awesome!!............. Remember Martin, next year its the ROT run.:bowdown:
What ski area is that? Breck???
More pics please.
:cheers:

FJ40zen
08-01-2010, 08:54 AM
We enjoyed joining you guys and will try again to join you folks in the future. I even got the Panoramic shot to upload! :thumb:

FJBRADY
08-01-2010, 09:19 AM
Great day, big thanks to Martin for putting this run together again this year.

FJBRADY
08-01-2010, 09:21 AM
More pictures

FJBRADY
08-01-2010, 09:22 AM
Last one

84cruzer
08-01-2010, 09:23 AM
Sa-Weeet!! Really like that pano-shot.:hill:

Dr. Schlegs
08-01-2010, 09:40 AM
Martin did a great job. I can't wait to get my 40 rolling again it can make the run next year.

Chris
08-01-2010, 10:26 AM
Nice pics guys! Sascha, it was nice meeting you and glad you connected with the right group. Whoever owns the yellow 40 we passed along the pavement heading to the trail - my wife (if you couldn't tell) loved your truck.

RicardoJM
08-01-2010, 10:30 AM
Martin, the 40s Only Run is one that many in the club have come to really enjoy and thanks for making it happen each year. I'm sure there will be a bunch of photos from the trail. I believe I was able to get a photo of each rig (but mine) while we were parked at the wood chip area. If I missed your rig, let me know and I may have another photo to put in the line up.

2010 40s Only Run Rigs

treerootCO
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40001.jpg

Jacket
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40002.jpg

TonkaToy
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40003.jpg

"Green FJ45" (TBD)
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40004.jpg

nattybumppo
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40005.jpg

Air Randy
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40006.jpg

"kfuss
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40007.jpg

MountainGoat
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40008.jpg

MDH33
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40009.jpg

REZARF
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40010.jpg

AFA FJ40
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40011.jpg

Gator1
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40012.jpg

Rzeppa
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40013.jpg

FJ40zen
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40014.jpg

toplessfj
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40015.jpg

baileyfj40
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40016.jpg

LETSROLL
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40017.jpg

066wally
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40018.jpg

RicardoJM
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/ricardojm/201040sonly/w_40019.jpg

Need to add - FJBRADY

Caribou Sandstorm
08-01-2010, 08:13 PM
Wow..great pics...

I watched the weather all day on Saturday, as I was high up in our Apple tree trimbing dead branches..

I kept looking out at the mountains and sky, thinking man what a day for the 40s run..

All I can say is some day, some day......

What an epic collection of rigs!

Air Randy
08-01-2010, 09:58 PM
Martin,

It was great fun and you did an outstanding job! Thanks again for making it happen.

Next year, instead of doing a wheel bearing packing party, lets get all the 40's together and do a carb rebuilding party :D

nicholasandrews
08-01-2010, 10:24 PM
40's only

nicholasandrews
08-01-2010, 10:38 PM
a few more from a great day! Thanks Dan for letting me ride along!

nattybumppo
08-02-2010, 08:02 AM
Nice pics guys! Sascha, it was nice meeting you and glad you connected with the right group. Whoever owns the yellow 40 we passed along the pavement heading to the trail - my wife (if you couldn't tell) loved your truck.

Chris, tell Emily for me she's a real beauty! True prom queen material! Second on that yellow 40. I think everyone was impressed with that pretty rig. My ex-wife said, "I like the color of that yellow one!" as she looked at me sideways thinking to herself...and yours is ugly gray with rust holes stem to stern, and you wondered why I left you...

I guess I'll always be rough around the edges. Tell your buddy with the olive brown 40 he took me back 30 years. I loved that first olive brown 40 I had back in the day. Sash

nattybumppo
08-02-2010, 08:07 AM
Last one

Love this pic Steve! Great job!

LETSROLL
08-02-2010, 01:32 PM
Wow, what a great time. Special thanks to Randy for helping us with the stuck transfer case, and Paul for giving us a tow to where Randy could do his magic!
Looking forward to next year already

toplessfj
08-02-2010, 02:21 PM
Just wanted to thank you guys for an excellent run, we always have a great time when we have the oppurtunity to wheel with the Rising Suns. We're already looking forward to next time.
Thanx again,
Paul & Julie
Horsetooth 4Wheelers

AFA FJ40
08-02-2010, 03:55 PM
Hey guys,
Just finished putting together a video of the ride...make sure to put it up on High Definition...hope you like it...thanks again for letting me participate in a great ride. :thumb: Enjoy!

WdmfeiWC1bg

corsair23
08-02-2010, 04:29 PM
Wow! Great video :thumb:

Thanks for taking the time to put it together...Makes me wish even more that I got to see all that in person :)

CardinalFJ60
08-02-2010, 04:36 PM
Wow! Great video :thumb:

Thanks for taking the time to put it together...Makes me wish even more that I got to see all that in person :)

x2!!! :thumb::thumb:

RicardoJM
08-02-2010, 05:24 PM
Wow! Great video :thumb:

Thanks for taking the time to put it together...Makes me wish even more that I got to see all that in person :)

x2!!! :thumb::thumb:

WOW - that is very cool. :thumb:

Bruiser
08-02-2010, 06:40 PM
The run looks completely different than last year. Green grass, no snow, and lots of other trail users. Seems like the 40 herd was able to muscle (politely I am sure) everyone else off the trail. I wish I could have been there.

Justin

Rezarf
08-02-2010, 07:07 PM
Seems like the 40 herd was able to muscle (politely I am sure) everyone else off the trail.

I ran behind Martin most of the day, and I must say he was a true diplomat. Usually at the cost of being cussed at, or ignored... he was a true class act! Great job again Martin! :thumb:

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:11 PM
Many thanks to Martin for leading this run! I have never been on this trail system before, and I really appreciate being turned on to it. Gosh what a beautiful place we live in, and what a privilege it is to be able to visit our wonderful mountains so easily.

It was a wonderful time wheeling with old friends and new friends, getting to explore our beautiful mountains in our old iron. There were so many rigs, there was no one spot I could capture everyone behind the lens, but here are a few shots.

This first one is where we aired down in Jefferson.

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:16 PM
This next one is on the Pacific drainage side of Georgia Pass.

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:25 PM
I don't know the name of this spot, but Martin called it a "tailing pile". Well, all the tailing piles I am familiar with in Colorado's mine country are yellow, yet this one was acres and acres of gray river rocks. Martin explained that they dredged the creek mining for gold up here. This is also where we split up on the way back. Those who wanted to catch I-70 to Breckenridge would turn right (in the orientation of this photo) and those would go back the way we came via 285 would go left.

Notice the beetle-killed spruce! I thought they were mainly going after lodgepole, but here the spruce are infested as well.

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:28 PM
I don't remember if this was the South or middle fork of Swan Creek, but as we made our way up the hill Bob from Horsetooth Cruisers behind me was having fuel delivery issues. As he sorted them out, I parked and took this photo. What an incredibly beautiful trail!

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:54 PM
Well everyone has posted their mountain goat photos, and here are a few of mine. BTW, Martin, what is the name of this spot where we grouped at the top?

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:54 PM
Baby goat!

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:57 PM
What an incredibly beautiful trail! Sorry I can not remember this fellow's name (please help, anyone?), but had the most incredibly awesome restored Oct 1974 FJ40. The only thing that wasn't stock was the Weber, but everyone made it through the trail with little difficulty.

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 07:59 PM
A whole bunch of FJ40s at 12,000 some feet!

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 08:01 PM
This makes "Stay on the trail" take on a whole new meaning. The drop off was around 1000 feet. That FJ45 was a 1982, right hand drive. Reportedly came through Canada, but possibly originated in Indonesia.

subzali
08-02-2010, 08:03 PM
Very cool photos everybody...wish I could have been there :(

Hey Ricardo, you gotta put peoples' names by their respective Cruisers! :thumb:

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 08:03 PM
All I can say about the wildflowers is that they were frigging awesome. I got up close and personal with this little beauty above timberline.

Rzeppa
08-02-2010, 08:05 PM
And finally, this is the sign at Georgia Pass. It pretty much says it all. Water on this side goes to the Atlantic, water on the other side goes to the Pacific ;)

LETSROLL
08-02-2010, 08:31 PM
Great video and Dj skills. Where was it mounted in your truck?


Hey guys,
Just finished putting together a video of the ride...make sure to put it up on High Definition...hope you like it...thanks again for letting me participate in a great ride. :thumb: Enjoy!

WdmfeiWC1bg

LETSROLL
08-02-2010, 08:35 PM
That's Doug I believe

What an incredibly beautiful trail! Sorry I can not remember this fellow's name (please help, anyone?), but had the most incredibly awesome restored Oct 1974 FJ40. The only thing that wasn't stock was the Weber, but everyone made it through the trail with little difficulty.

TonkaToy
08-02-2010, 08:39 PM
What an awesome day in Colorado with an awesome group of people and classic iron! Thanks everyone for welcoming me and my son on the trip. It was an incredible day and a great innagural run for the old 40. Put the tires up into the fenders a few times and had a few 'pucker moments', but came back unscathed! I appreciate all the compliments on the way it turned out as well.
Going to try and get up for the Bill Moore Lake run on Sunday too. Hope to see some of you guys then too. Looking forward to many more runs in the future.
(By the way, my name is Mitch and my son is Dillon.)

AFA FJ40
08-02-2010, 09:12 PM
Great video and Dj skills. Where was it mounted in your truck?

In case anybody was wondering, I shot the video on a nifty GoPro HD camera...it comes with all the mounting brackets and I put it on the upper drivers side of the windshield on the outside...my battery lasts only 2.5 hours so I did not get the whole ride...I will have to figure out a power source for it. Thanks for the comments. :cheers:

corsair23
08-02-2010, 09:50 PM
...I put it on the upper drivers side of the windshield on the outside...

I was wondering where it was mounted because there were a lot of times in the video where I was sure you were smacking stuff, including golf carts and people, on the DS :hill:

AFA FJ40
08-02-2010, 10:46 PM
I was wondering where it was mounted because there were a lot of times in the video where I was sure you were smacking stuff, including golf carts and people, on the DS :hill:

Looks like it :hill:...the lens is wide angle...depending on the format you can get either 170 or 120 degrees of visability...I smacked a few branches on the way...but the camera has a protective case. It was the first time I used it...worked out slick.

MDH33
08-03-2010, 08:22 AM
Thanks for posting the video Rui! Very cool. And thanks again for the pics. I finally have some posted on my Smugmug account, so I'll post a few here. I've already picked a handful to submit to TT with an article. Cover quality stuff. :thumb:

A few of Rui's pics:

The day started off with perfect weather and it stayed with us most of the day. We met in Conifer, did some introductions and then headed for the hills. We aired down in Jefferson and then started up the roads headed for Georgia Pass. My dad was visiting from Michigan and had a great time. He had never been up into the mountains before, so being able to go on the run was really cool. He had an awesome time and was impressed with the 40's and also with the great people driving them. :thumb:

The M&M's start to assemble

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/955394233_dZ5B4-L.jpg

Airing Down in Jefferson. Check out all those nice rigs!

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956731309_KXJ8U-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956762448_VUaHr-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956757338_pLNr6-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956736168_vLu4s-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956739214_3mxCo-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956769420_N7BUP-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956718372_EwLYC-L.jpg

Our destination for the day.

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956781515_egGjd-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956788438_8BdVn-L.jpg

On Georgia Pass and heading down the South Fork of the Swan.

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956801149_nw9eo-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956808793_K3X45-L.jpg

The group Re-grouped at the river crossing before heading to the North Fork

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956829599_WHNMx-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956836838_oK4Dn-L.jpg

As we headed up the Steep long hill climbs of the North Fork we ran into a lot of downhill traffic. I had words with a couple of dirt bikers who were passing our group on a narrow road at high speed and throwing rocks. This guy was a tool.

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956845793_agSrf-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956847862_bUfKC-L.jpg

A few of us had vapor lock on the hill cimb (including me) and it was a real task trying to manage the trail traffic at the top and bottom with several rigs incapacitated along the trail. Thanks to Matt and Mike my tail gunners for helping out at the bottom, and Drew, Rui, Doug and Dan for directing traffic up top.

A great hypothesis was brought up regarding why so many rigs vapor locked. Could it be the high Ethanol content of the fuel we have today? Possible, I think. Probably vaporizes at a lower temp than "real" fuel would.

The group reached the top of Wise Mtn, checked out the cabin, met some goats and ate some lunch before heading over the trails above treeline towards the Middle Fork.

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956873944_Xq3kh-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956876971_qLgxn-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956869129_Gzgh2-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956863058_Z3sCU-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956889099_q7zF5-L.jpg

My Dad and I on Wise Mtn.

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/955466760_3CrRW-L.jpg

After our rest stop on Wise Mtn. We headed up the steep climb before the Saints John and Deer Creek trails split off the North Fork. The hill climb was loose and fun. A few of the rigs had fuel trouble again, but everyone made it up eventually. Great Views up there. And check out all those 40s!! Thanks again for taking the pics Rui!

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956906761_w3v9i-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956909654_DAvz8-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956918718_EiviL-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956931803_RoLnZ-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956938686_sRtYo-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956943995_iaw6A-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956941005_eSYe3-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956948258_dy6or-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956949185_6j6Ck-L.jpg

Once we all made the climb, we headed off towrds the Middle Fork, which dropped us back down into the trees and back in the direction we came, making a nice loop.

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956960389_V9J74-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956963418_GnMF4-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956964964_UhRte-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956957380_NR8oF-L.jpg

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/956967416_GBm3d-L.jpg

Thanks again to everyone who came. Great day. :thumb:

CardinalFJ60
08-03-2010, 09:10 AM
man...that canon works well, eh? NICE PICS!!!!!

Rezarf
08-03-2010, 09:17 AM
COOL VIDEO!

Drew

TonkaToy
08-03-2010, 09:34 AM
Wow that camera does thake some nice pics. The colors are so vivid in them.
Awesome video as well. Jamiriquoi (sp) very nice choice for the footage!!

Rzeppa
08-03-2010, 09:45 AM
A great hypothesis was brought up regarding why so many rigs vapor locked. Could it be the high Ethanol content of the fuel we have today? Possible, I think. Probably vaporizes at a lower temp than "real" fuel would.

First Martin, thank you for posting those photos!

Second, I decided to do a little investigating about the EtOH theory. Turns out that the hypothesis is supported by the chemistry. From Wiki, here is a graph of EtOH vapor pressure versus temperature. Remember, that the definition of boiling is when the vapor pressure of a liquid is equal to the ambient pressure.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/EtOHlogVaporPressureL.png

From that graph, we can see that the temperature at which the vapor pressure equals one atmosphere (760 mmHg, or nominal sea level), is about 75C. Obviously, we were much higher than that, I would guess around 500 mmHg. For reference, the atmospheric pressure in Denver is about 620 mmHg.

Heptane is a component of gasoline so I looked it up. It is a much larger molecule, and thus has a much lower vapor pressure. At sea level it boils at a little over 98C.

Here is a good link to the Wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_lock) on vapor lock. The explanation is spot-on.

FJBRADY
08-03-2010, 10:20 AM
Dude you just locked up my brain........:gaah:

Air Randy
08-03-2010, 10:27 AM
Could be. On the other hand it was a relatively cool day, especially on top of the passes it was down right cold. We were all pretty much using the same type of fuel, why then did many of the mechnically pumped, carbbed vehicles never skip a beat?

Several of the "vapor lock" issues I saw appeared to actually be engines loading up from being too rich. That could be due to a carb needing rebuilt, floats too high, sea level jets at high elevation, ignition timing not set for high elevation, etc. All of those things are amplified at elevation and we were running between 11,000 and 12,600 most of the day.

Hulk
08-03-2010, 10:36 AM
Wow that camera does thake some nice pics. The colors are so vivid in them.

Yeah, I was going to ask about the settings on the camera to get so much color saturation. I might want to try that. :)

Jacket
08-03-2010, 11:51 AM
Yeah, I was going to ask about the settings on the camera to get so much color saturation. I might want to try that. :)

Post-processing?

Jacket
08-03-2010, 12:15 PM
We were all pretty much using the same type of fuel, why then did many of the mechnically pumped, carbbed vehicles never skip a beat?
Makes you wonder though? Are all gases really the same, or might you get a better quality gas from somewhere like Conoco as opposed to the Loaf -n- Jug? Mike and I were chatting about the 10% ethanol thing in the back of the line (which I think is a good theory), but maybe some cheaper gas has a higher concentration than 10%?

Several of the "vapor lock" issues I saw appeared to actually be engines loading up from being too rich. That could be due to a carb needing rebuilt, floats too high, sea level jets at high elevation, ignition timing not set for high elevation, etc. All of those things are amplified at elevation and we were running between 11,000 and 12,600 most of the day.

In the case of the two brothers in the blue FJ40 (sorry - I've already forgotten their names), they had ongoing problems with idling, but their truck did really well maintaining RPMs and climbing. But another data point is that these guys were on the same run a year ago and no issues at all. Only difference is that it was much colder last year (which may be all that truck needed?).

Hulk
08-03-2010, 12:26 PM
Post-processing?

It could be, but it also might be a setting in the camera menu. Most cameras have these kind of settings. I'd love to hear from the photographer as to how he is achieving this level of color.

Caribou Sandstorm
08-03-2010, 01:10 PM
So I have to ask....Would you all be willing to park in a row at the Rally this weekend???

These pictures are so cool, it would be awesome to reproduce a line up like this, so we could take more pics of these rigs...

Just a thought.

CardinalFJ60
08-03-2010, 01:20 PM
Great minds think alike, Chris. Perry and I are cookin' up an idea along these lines. ;) :photo: I'll be at a wedding on Saturday, or else I'd be there in my 40, too.

AFA FJ40
08-03-2010, 01:48 PM
man...that canon works well, eh? NICE PICS!!!!!

Canon?!?! I think the pic of Martin and his Dad is from his camera. Most of the rest are mine I believe....:thumb:

Actually it was a Nikon D700 with mostly a 70-200mm 2.8f VR lens, the other lens was a 28-200 3.5f for the wide angles.

Color and sharpness were set on the camera, what Martin got from me was right out of the camera...don't know if he processed them or not. :cheers:
Rui

Hulk
08-03-2010, 02:27 PM
Actually it was a Nikon D700 with mostly a 70-200mm 2.8f VR lens, the other lens was a 28-200 3.5f for the wide angles.

Color and sharpness were set on the camera, what Martin got from me was right out of the camera...don't know if he processed them or not. :cheers:
Rui

I was pretty sure that you were shooting a Nikon D700, same as you were last year.

Have you adjusted the Color Mode in the camera? I don't have my D200 in front of me, but I seem to recall there were 3 Color Modes, labeled I, II, and III. On the D200, there is also Color Saturation and Tone Compensation settings. I'm betting the D700 has similar settings. What are yours set at? I'd love to try to reproduce some of your images.

The 70-200mm 2.8f VR lens is a super sweet lens (wish I had one!), but I bet I still wouldn't get those rich images without some color setting adjustments.

MDH33
08-03-2010, 02:57 PM
I should have stated that more clearly I guess. Pics are not mine, I just posted them. (and no post processing). Thanks again Rui!

I didn't even get a chance to use my new camera on the run, but I sure was glad others got such good pics. :thumb:

Regarding the vapor lock issue; I'm not sure. I ran those hills no problem two weeks ago (and last year), but this time I vapor locked. I usually run high octane, but that day I ran 85... Only difference I can think of. I feel like my carb and 2F are running great and haven't had any issues lately. :confused:

Rzeppa
08-03-2010, 03:02 PM
Could be. On the other hand it was a relatively cool day, especially on top of the passes it was down right cold. We were all pretty much using the same type of fuel, why then did many of the mechnically pumped, carbbed vehicles never skip a beat?

Several of the "vapor lock" issues I saw appeared to actually be engines loading up from being too rich. That could be due to a carb needing rebuilt, floats too high, sea level jets at high elevation, ignition timing not set for high elevation, etc. All of those things are amplified at elevation and we were running between 11,000 and 12,600 most of the day.

There was no question that Bob (blue topless rig with repeated idling problems) had fuel starvation. He had an odd, but effective way of fixing it. He would put his glove over the air horn as if it were a choke while his buddy cranked the engine over. When it would catch, he would take it off, it would start to stall, he'd put it back on, repeat until it would run without the glove. He claimed the vacuum of choking the air horn would "pull" the fuel into the carb. I would speculate that he used that method instead of the regular choke because with the regular choke, the vacuum breaker opens the butterfly as soon as the engine catches, which in his case would have made it stall.

I think he had some kind of carb issue. The carb looked like it had been recently rebuilt, and the pump was nearly-new kyosan-denki from a parts store. It is unknown whether the pump may have been faulty, or the fellow had some kind of other fault (filter?). Except the thing ran fine when he didn't have to idle on an incline for very long. I kind of kept him close to me in case I needed to strap him up the hill. In fact I offered a strap several times but he didn't want it.

I thought it was interesting that the guy with Multi-port injection on his V8 was also having fuel delivery issues, but that may have been a faulty pump. My understanding is that multi-port requires higher pressure than TBI.

In any case, the items Randy mentions at the end of his post are frequently contributors to problems, and are certainly exacerbated at high elevations. Again, the definition of boiling is the temperature at which the liquid's vapor pressure equals the ambient pressure. Thus, as you gain elevation, the temperature at which the liquid boils becomes lower and lower. And to make it worse, on an incline you lower the ambient pressure in the plumbing between the tank and the pump because it has to "suck uphill", so the boiling point of the fuel is lower on an incline than on the level.

84cruzer
08-03-2010, 03:37 PM
Good stuff everyone! .................. Really jealous. :bowdown:

AFA FJ40
08-03-2010, 03:43 PM
I was pretty sure that you were shooting a Nikon D700, same as you were last year.

Have you adjusted the Color Mode in the camera? I don't have my D200 in front of me, but I seem to recall there were 3 Color Modes, labeled I, II, and III. On the D200, there is also Color Saturation and Tone Compensation settings. I'm betting the D700 has similar settings. What are yours set at? I'd love to try to reproduce some of your images.

The 70-200mm 2.8f VR lens is a super sweet lens (wish I had one!), but I bet I still wouldn't get those rich images without some color setting adjustments.

I will post my settings for the D700, I did tweak it a little bit, the new firmware for the camera made it better for tweaking...might wana check if you have the latest firmware on yours. The 70-200mm VR lens is tack sharp, you can tell on that mountain goat...

I also took a pic that Martin did not post (don't know if he is gona use it) of two marmots on the rocks and in the far background you can see the FJ40's on the trail...it's kinda neat...if Martin is not going to use it I can post it here....:thumb:

Hulk
08-03-2010, 03:50 PM
...new firmware for the camera made it better for tweaking...might wana check if you have the latest firmware on yours.

Awesome. Thanks for the tip. I will check it out.

MDH33
08-03-2010, 03:55 PM
I also took a pic that Martin did not post (don't know if he is gona use it) of two marmots on the rocks and in the far background you can see the FJ40's on the trail...it's kinda neat...if Martin is not going to use it I can post it here....:thumb:

That IS a great pic. I was hoping to use it in the TT article. ;)

RedCreeper
08-03-2010, 04:14 PM
I was pretty sure that you were shooting a Nikon D700, same as you were last year.

Have you adjusted the Color Mode in the camera? I don't have my D200 in front of me, but I seem to recall there were 3 Color Modes, labeled I, II, and III. On the D200, there is also Color Saturation and Tone Compensation settings. I'm betting the D700 has similar settings. What are yours set at? I'd love to try to reproduce some of your images.

The 70-200mm 2.8f VR lens is a super sweet lens (wish I had one!), but I bet I still wouldn't get those rich images without some color setting adjustments.

Lenses make a world of difference. You may not think so but they do. Some can be had in the camera or on the puter but you cant make up for sharpness and contrast from the start with the lens. When people ask me what to buy i tell them to get the lower cost body and save for the lenses. the glass is what makes the images not the body or the computer. sure you can play later but better to have an image the is good to start with. When i started shooting weddings and such i had the generic canon usm lenses and they worked great. But later when i got a few L lenses i compared and you can see the difference in the prints. my .02

nice shots guys.

AFA FJ40
08-03-2010, 04:27 PM
That IS a great pic. I was hoping to use it in the TT article. ;)

No worries...use it!!! The folks here will just have to wait to see it :D

TonkaToy
08-03-2010, 04:51 PM
On the vapor lock thing, I was wondering about the quality and octane of the fuel myself. I only run the higher octane fuels in mine and that's what I was on Saturday too, with no problems at all. What octane were the vapor lock 'victims' using? Would be nice if the fix was as simple as using higher octanes! Is there an additive we could/should use to prevent 'the vapors'?

AFA FJ40
08-03-2010, 06:02 PM
I use the lowest octane I can find, I ran fine saturday and have been running fine since I have had 40. :rolleyes:

Rzeppa
08-03-2010, 06:44 PM
Regarding the vapor lock issue; I'm not sure. I ran those hills no problem two weeks ago (and last year), but this time I vapor locked. I usually run high octane, but that day I ran 85... Only difference I can think of. I feel like my carb and 2F are running great and haven't had any issues lately. :confused:

The higher the octane, the lower the vapor pressure and less likelihood of pre-ignition or vapor lock. I didn't want to hurt people's brains with the long explanation, but I already did. Suffice to say that gasoline formulation is a mixture of different hydrocarbons, generally C4 through C12. The fewer carbons atoms, the lighter and more volatile it is, and more susceptible to vapor lock.

This might be a teaching opportunity: If you are planning a run to high elevations in the summer, it might help to fill up with "premium" to avoid vapor lock.

Obviously the sample size is very small (4 rigs out of 20 had issues, including one with FI), but it might be an interesting experiment if we had all carb'd rigs fill up with premium next year, or our next high elevation run, and see if we have as many vapor lock issues or not.

subzali
08-03-2010, 07:22 PM
Or all fill up with low grade and see if the problem repeats itself ;)

FJ40zen
08-03-2010, 08:54 PM
I dug out my carb fan from my toy box and I may also get the intake back on up front to find out if cooler air intake works better. Maybe a combination of these two and higher octane might help. :rolleyes:

AFA FJ40
08-03-2010, 10:10 PM
I dug out my carb fan from my toy box and I may also get the intake back on up front to find out if cooler air intake works better. Maybe a combination of these two and higher octane might help. :rolleyes:

I desmoged my 40 and made sure I kept the sensor for the carb fan. I failed to mention that I still have my carb fan and run low octane fuel...it has been solid for me...maybe if I did not have the fan I might have been in the same boat as the other 4 40's.:rolleyes:

066wally
08-03-2010, 10:24 PM
In the early hours of the trip I too thought I was having vapor lock issues. As the day went on I realized that I was actually having problems with flooding rather than starving. My carb kept "loading up" as Randy called it and I couldn't figure out why, others commented on how it seemed to be running too rich. Whenever I had to stop my engine would stall and I'd crank and crank until it would fire and I could get moving again. As long as I was moving it would run OK.
When I got so frustrated and decided to head for home (the first time) before climbing up to Wise Mountain I decided to fool with the carb a bit. I lowered the float after noticing fuel pouring out of the carb. I hoped that the float was set to high and causing the flooding. I was able to get up to the cabin in one try without stalling out. Once on top and sitting back in line the flooding still happened and I didn't want to try the steep climb to the ridge. I decided I was done and heading back down. Well a little more tweaking and I got it running again. I inadvertently stayed way behind the group and was able to keep moving without problems until I had to stop again.
I ultimately made it back fairly easily to Jefferson since we moved so quickly back. After airing up I tried to get on to 285 and stalled again in front of Martin. Got it started and drove without issue to Conifer for dinner. After dinner, more tweaking, got it running smoth and drove on into Denver. It stalled at every stop I made back to the house once I got into town.
I tore off the float bowl when I got home and checked the needle and seat to see if it was stuck, that was my last hope of trying to figure out what was happening. No luck, the needle moved freely. I replaced it anyway with a new one I had on hand.
After doing some searching of the world wide web I now think that the O-ring around the needle valve wasn't fitting well enough to seal. What I found said that it is a common occurence on vehicles that sit for long periods of time.

I'll run it a little bit this week and see if that solves my problems. Thanks for listening and being patient with me on the trail.

Oh yeah, I'm running a 350 CFM Holley 2300 carb on a 2F. I've got all of the goodies installed in the carb that Downey says will help off road, and I think they do.

Thanks again Martin for planning and pre-runnning the trail. I think we all enjoyed it.

nakman
08-04-2010, 08:09 AM
Does the carb fan really do that much for you while driving? I had always thought it was more for cooling the carb down after you shut the engine off, that's why it's supposed to run for another minute or so. :confused:

And fun video AFA, had to wait until last night at home to watch it, but that camera's pretty impressive. :thumb:

AFA FJ40
08-04-2010, 09:04 AM
Does the carb fan really do that much for you while driving? I had always thought it was more for cooling the carb down after you shut the engine off, that's why it's supposed to run for another minute or so. :confused:

And fun video AFA, had to wait until last night at home to watch it, but that camera's pretty impressive. :thumb:

Thanks for kudos on the Vid, it was my first with that cam.:cool:

I have an 1982 FJ40, my carb fan runs while I am driving, I can hear it while I'm idling sometimes. When I desmoged the rig, I made sure to keep the sensor that was attached to another piece of desmog equipment, I placed it relatively close to its original location (facing the exhaust manifold). All I can say is that I did not vapor lock on the trail and have never vapor locked, I have used low octane gas since I got the rig in mid 2009, the fan puts out plenty of air directly on the carb...don't know how well it works, but I doubt the Toyota engineers put a fan there just for visual aesthetics, they must have had some data feedback to come up with an idea of putting a carb fan. My 2 cents...:cheers:

kfuss
08-04-2010, 09:10 AM
Obviously the sample size is very small (4 rigs out of 20 had issues, including one with FI), but it might be an interesting experiment if we had all carb'd rigs fill up with premium next year, or our next high elevation run, and see if we have as many vapor lock issues or not.

I had a great run.

Thanks Martin, for putting it together. Thanks Randy and Steve for your help on the trail and thanks for all the rigs behind me for your patience.

I know what my vapor lock issues are with the FI, too much heat. I need to reroute my fuel lines to the back of the intake but that costs $$$'s.

Thanks again!!

Air Randy
08-04-2010, 11:02 AM
I know what my vapor lock issues are with the FI, too much heat. I need to reroute my fuel lines to the back of the intake but that costs $$$'s.

Kirk,

I'm not 100% convinced your vlock issue is due to heat on the fuel lines in the engine compartment. The FI rigs I've worked on in the past with this same issue solved the problem by changing the fuel tank plumbing and their fuel pump location. The stock GM rigs with FI rarely ever had vlock issues. If possible, look at a stock GM truck that has the same engine that you have. Look at how many return lines to the fuel tank and vent lines there are and try to copy that as best you can. Most of these rigs also had the fuel pump mounted inside the tank which also helps keeps the fuel cooler. Remember when we started trouble shooting your rig that there was a LOT of pressure built up in the fuel tank. Once we released that pressure and then bled the air bubble out of the pump to engine section of line it started right up and ran pretty good the rest of the day. If it was vlocking due to engine heat I think you would have had recurring issues later in the day when it was warmer and the engine was working harder climbing those long hills. However, if it does turn out to be an engine compartment heat issue you can buy an aftermarket device called a "cool can". You install it in the engine compartment and route the fuel lines through it. The cheap ones you just fill with water periodically. The better ones you route a heater hose line to it and it uses the engine coolant water to keep the fuel cooler.

As far as my rig: I didn't have any vlock or loading issues. I ran premium fuel; I have a stock Aisin carb; I have a stock (but new) mechanical fuel pump; I do not have a carb fan; I do have a liquid heat riser installed on my intake manifold and I have a header versus a stock cast iron exhaust manifold. Maybe the premium fuel made the difference but I do know the liquid heat riser keeps the intake manifold and carb base from never getting hotter than the engines water temp, so as long as the motor isn't over heating the carb stays relatively cool. The after market header probably dissipates heats better than the stock cast iron unit too.

We may have had 4 totally different issues too that were calling "vapor lock". The v8/FI rig may have had fuel tank pressure issues, one FJ40 appears to have had a leaking carb/over rich issue, Ricardo's rig had an air lock between the fuel tank and fuel pump issue, and Marten may have had legitimate heat related vapor locking.

Rzeppa
08-04-2010, 11:10 AM
Thanks for kudos on the Vid, it was my first with that cam.:cool:

I have an 1982 FJ40, my carb fan runs while I am driving, I can hear it while I'm idling sometimes. When I desmoged the rig, I made sure to keep the sensor that was attached to another piece of desmog equipment, I placed it relatively close to its original location (facing the exhaust manifold). All I can say is that I did not vapor lock on the trail and have never vapor locked, I have used low octane gas since I got the rig in mid 2009, the fan puts out plenty of air directly on the carb...don't know how well it works, but I doubt the Toyota engineers put a fan there just for visual aesthetics, they must have had some data feedback to come up with an idea of putting a carb fan. My 2 cents...:cheers:

The introduction of the carb fan coincides with the introduction of the EGR system, which adds a lot of heat-radiating surface area on that side of the engine. The rail of the air injection system is another source of radiant heat. The earlier fans (like on my CA-spec. 1976 FJ40) were up in the front corner, pointed toward all the emissions crap on that side of the engine. The later ones on both 40s and 60s were pointed directly at the carb, and were much closer to the carb.

FJBRADY
08-04-2010, 11:10 AM
If it was vlocking due to engine heat I think you would have had recurring issues later in the day when it was warmer and the engine was working harder climbing those long hills.




He did have some trouble on the climb to wise mtn., where the family of Mountain Goats were, I towed him the last qtr mile to the top where he repeated the line presure release that he performed earlier in the day and I believe that was the last time.

I run mid grade never had an issue, yet, with the TBI.

84cruzer
08-04-2010, 11:17 AM
I just recently replaced the FP in my 60 because the old one was cavitating and blowing the fuse. The new Bosch fuel pump seems to be working out good. My diagnoses at the time was it was vlocking.

This thread is so EPIC!!

:cheers:

Rezarf
08-04-2010, 12:09 PM
I used to be about the only blue fj40 in the club... now it is the most common color out there! Very cool dudes, long live the...

Jacket
08-04-2010, 12:12 PM
I used to be about the only blue fj40 in the club... now it is the most common color out there! Very cool dudes, long live the...

I got Sam one of those blue matchbox cars off ebay that is a replica of an FJ40. He says "I wish it was green, but it's cool to have one like Drew's."

MDH33
08-04-2010, 12:27 PM
I got Sam one of those blue matchbox cars off ebay that is a replica of an FJ40. He says "I wish it was green, but it's cool to have one like Drew's."

There's a new green one that is all die cast. Even has diamond plate covering the rusty rear quarters.

:hill:

diecast fj40 on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-MATCHBOX-LESNEY-EDITION-TOYOTA-FJ-40-Landcruiser-/390219100205?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Diecast_Vehicles&hash=item5adadef02d)

Then of course, there's the super rare green OEM soft top version. ;)

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/724171772_fioUU-O.jpg

Jacket
08-04-2010, 12:41 PM
^Awesome on both counts. I'd take the uber rare soft top edition! When does production start?

I wonder if the green one is still called a "68 Toyota Landcruiser" despite having ambulance doors and rectangular tail lights :rolleyes:

Hulk
08-04-2010, 01:05 PM
There's a new green one that is all die cast. Even has diamond plate covering the rusty rear quarters.

diecast fj40 on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-MATCHBOX-LESNEY-EDITION-TOYOTA-FJ-40-Landcruiser-/390219100205?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Diecast_Vehicles&hash=item5adadef02d)


Wow, that's really cool. I wonder if you can find them at Target or Walmart, or if it's necessary to pay this guy the $15.

84cruzer
08-04-2010, 01:06 PM
Nice photochop!!:hill:

Rzeppa
08-04-2010, 03:26 PM
Nice photochop!!:hill:

I was thinking the same thing. It took me a few seconds to realize that was Martin's rig. Funny, I'm sitting here at work multitasking between this thread and manipulating some images for a catalog in photoshop :)

84cruzer
08-04-2010, 03:48 PM
Never had the privilege/honor of meeting Martin but if i ever saw his rig rolling down the road i would for sure recognize it. :hill: It looks like it just rolled out of a time machine. :thumb:

subzali
08-04-2010, 09:02 PM
Thanks Jeff, didn't know that! I'll have to see if my plug is still there for it to plug into, because the fan is definitely long gone!

Now, can you tell me what's supposed to mount on the passenger side fender, underneath the heater fan (basically), on a 10/76 FJ40? ;)

The introduction of the carb fan coincides with the introduction of the EGR system, which adds a lot of heat-radiating surface area on that side of the engine. The rail of the air injection system is another source of radiant heat. The earlier fans (like on my CA-spec. 1976 FJ40) were up in the front corner, pointed toward all the emissions crap on that side of the engine. The later ones on both 40s and 60s were pointed directly at the carb, and were much closer to the carb.

nakman
08-05-2010, 10:18 AM
I got Gavin one of those FJ40 matchbox cars for his birthday, I can't wait to give it to him. Found it at Target in Westminster (104th & 36), just in the racks.. $0.97. Yes I've been back multiple times and I will buy up every one I see. I asked a dude if I could special order more of them, he said there isn't a SKU for specific models, so they never know what they're going to get. huh.


ps- some of my favorite threads on this forum are the trip reports that turn into tech, or discussions of new forum names, matchbox cars, etc. fun stuff. :)

TonkaToy
08-05-2010, 12:59 PM
Some of you have seen my 40 and it's new coat of yellow paint. Well, one of the neighbor kids brought up that it is the same color as their school bus, complete with white top. Now, my wife keeps calling it........'the short bus'! :rant:

MDH33
08-05-2010, 04:04 PM
Some of you have seen my 40 and it's new coat of yellow paint. Well, one of the neighbor kids brought up that it is the same color as their school bus, complete with white top. Now, my wife keeps calling it........'the short bus'! :rant:

We always called the school bus the "Cheese Wagon". ;)

subzali
08-05-2010, 09:36 PM
Christo's old yellow 80 was called the "Short Bus," so at least you're in good company :D

Some of you have seen my 40 and it's new coat of yellow paint. Well, one of the neighbor kids brought up that it is the same color as their school bus, complete with white top. Now, my wife keeps calling it........'the short bus'! :rant: