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gr8fulabe
09-06-2010, 03:37 PM
His house has to be close to the mandatory evac area for the fire. I sent him a text earlier but I don't know if his cell gets texts. Just curious if the are all safe & good.
Thanks
abe

Uncle Ben
09-06-2010, 04:54 PM
I talked to him about an hour ago. He has been evacuated. The fire wasn't on his side of the road yet but was getting close. His roof is only 1/3 done so it wouldn't take a very big ember to cause a catastrophe! Please keep the Antonsons and all the residents and fire fighters up there in your thoughts and prayers!

powderpig
09-06-2010, 05:02 PM
Thanks Abe and for others that have tried to contact me. I am my in laws house in Broomfield.
I did not have a ton of time to get out, but loss of power is a good indicator that I should leave(that and the county sheriff told me to leave). I got the animals out, what ever I could fit in my cruiser. Moved out all the flammables away from the house, and all the vehicles. Got the animals packed in the Cruiser and some pic's and vital papers, the computers.
Bummer, I only got one side of the roof done with the metal(thank Kraig).
Only can leave things up to the universe as to if the house will be gotten by this fire. I do hope the winds drop so the planes can fly with water and retardant.
I can only hope that no one get hurts.
I do have a couple of friends that are part of the voluntary fire department, I do hope they stay safe.
Just send wishes to help the guys fitting this fire, they need it more than I do.

Crash
09-06-2010, 06:28 PM
Robbie - We're hoping and praying for your safe return with no toasted trees in sight - Been thinking about you all day. If we can be of assistance, please call us. We'll do anything we can. Hugs, Suzie and Steve

Jacket
09-06-2010, 07:03 PM
Hoping for the best possible outcome Robbie. We were wondering and thinking about you guys all day long.

powderpig
09-06-2010, 07:12 PM
Well it will be a miracle if the house make's it. Fire crossed above it (and may be was part of it), about 1/2 hr ago, I have been listening to the live feeds of the command post on line. Fire has gone up and over Lee hill and the radio towers. Has taken out some homes on top of Lee Hill. The Also are getting people out of left hand canyon down to HY 36.
this all started now from a Propane delivery truck that crashed.
There are at 4 different fronts to this fire, going up and over sugar loaf as well, down and around Bald mountain to the Pine Brook area.
Looks like at least 12 homes around Gold hill are gone, but the center is OK.
They are not getting any kind of control over this. Looks like it could burn for a couple of days.
If only rain was in the fore cast, but it is not.

pmccumber
09-06-2010, 07:16 PM
Damn.

Rezarf
09-06-2010, 07:34 PM
Robbie- We have been stressed all day thinking of you. We are pulling for you and your family and praying for a safe unaltered return to your home bud. If there is ANYTHING we can do at all please give me a call.

CardinalFJ60
09-06-2010, 07:57 PM
Hillary and I were just thinking about you and all this... I just got online. I'll be out of town next week, but let us know what if anything we can do to help.

nakman
09-06-2010, 08:00 PM
:robbie: glad the family and animals are safe.. and we're pulling for the best over here. :beer:

Lars
09-06-2010, 08:01 PM
you're definanntly in our thought and prays tonight

Inukshuk
09-06-2010, 08:01 PM
Well it will be a miracle if the house make's it. Fire crossed above it (and may be was part of it), about 1/2 hr ago, I have been listening to the live feeds of the command post on line. Fire has gone up and over Lee hill and the radio towers. Has taken out some homes on top of Lee Hill.

Dang. Ill let you know if I hear any news from Steve & Lisa Hall. So far its just that they are evac'd like you.

Beater
09-06-2010, 08:20 PM
I was fishing pinecliff below nederland this morning. Came into nederland and said "oh ****" I was about to come and show you my new to me 900 se convertible. God speed Robbie - glad you're all ok.

Romer
09-06-2010, 08:30 PM
Robbie, You know you have a large family here. Let us know what you need.

Boulder Cruiser
09-06-2010, 08:39 PM
Glad you and your family are safe, that's the important thing.

DanS
09-06-2010, 09:05 PM
I'd tell my relatives (who are with Sugarloaf VFD) to pay extra attention to a house with half a roof and cruiser bits scattered around, but from the sounds of it they are uber busy. They went to fight it, and then the evacuation order came for them, so they are trying to round up 3 kids, the pets, and my 94 year old grandmother.

Prayers aplenty...

Dan

Jacket
09-06-2010, 09:26 PM
I just went to the end of my driveway, and looking west you can clearly see the flames in the lowest part of the range (Boulder Canyon), but even worse is the flames climbin up to the north from there toward Lee Hill. There is no wind so the smoke has cleared out making it very easy to see. :(

Boulder Cruiser
09-06-2010, 09:44 PM
I just went to the end of my driveway, and looking west you can clearly see the flames in the lowest part of the range (Boulder Canyon), but even worse is the flames climbin up to the north from there toward Lee Hill. There is no wind so the smoke has cleared out making it very easy to see. :(

Just took these pics by 63rd and Arapahoe.

http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac64/bouldercruiser2/DSC_8060.jpg
http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac64/bouldercruiser2/DSC_8057.jpg
http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac64/bouldercruiser2/DSC_8059.jpg

Rezarf
09-06-2010, 10:17 PM
I just went and watched this thing for about the past hour and a half, it appears the most intense stuff is heading towards lefthand canyon near north bolder.

Hulk
09-06-2010, 10:20 PM
Aw man. Just got back from Salida a few hours ago to hear about this. We're praying for you.

PabloCruise
09-06-2010, 10:35 PM
Thoughts and prayers for you Robbie and your home!

corsair23
09-06-2010, 11:26 PM
I'll echo what everyone else has said!

I was amazed that you could see the smoke plume from way down south...Let us know if you need anything Robbie!

farnhamstj
09-07-2010, 07:16 AM
Robbie, best of luck to you. Fingers are crossed the house survives.

coax
09-07-2010, 07:48 AM
+1 on if there's anything that we can do to help out. Estes valley is filled with smoke today, but there is no wind so hopefully they are able to fly some aircraft.

bh4rnnr
09-07-2010, 08:05 AM
My thoughts are with ya Robbie and hope all ends up well.

Dr. Schlegs
09-07-2010, 08:49 AM
WOW!!! Robbie to echo everyone else. I am thinking about you, and if there is something I or the club can do to help please let us know.

rover67
09-07-2010, 08:51 AM
We rolled in last night late to see the flames, it was bigger than we thought.

Robbie, if you guys need any help at all please just let us know

AxleIke
09-07-2010, 09:18 AM
Robbie, thoughts and prayers man. I grew up with this, and know exactly how much watching and waiting to see where the fire goes and what it does sucks.

Again, if there is anything we can do, let us know.

powderpig
09-07-2010, 09:30 AM
Thanks all for the thoughts and prayers. Just playing the waiting game now. Just got done watching the 9 am report from the guy in charge(I think). He really did not know much at this time. With the smoke and such, they do not have a clear idea of the fire fronts, just where the evac lines are. Winds have layed down and are allowing the Tankers to do there job. People I know have had there houses gone up in flames(still do not know about ours and the rest of Whispering Pines).
Nice pic's of the fire Boulder Cruiser.

Right know, we have no real needs. We have some clothes, not much but enough. We have a roof over our heads and food and family and friends(that wish us well). What more could you ask for while we are waiting for news.
It could be a day or more(after the fire is out or under control) before we know more. They will not let any one in the area until they access the damage(so they say) to houses and where the fire started.
Thanks again for the well wishing.

LARGEONE
09-07-2010, 09:53 AM
Robbie...we are right around the corner from where you are in Broomfield. Let us know if you need anything. We have an extra car, extra rooms, extra grill, extra garage space, etc, etc, etc. Please give me a call...don't hesitate. Let me know what we can do.

P

DaveInDenver
09-07-2010, 09:58 AM
We saw all the smoke but the fire itself looked pretty small at noon-time Sunday. Reading about it today I think from our location south of the fire along the Peak-to-Peak we were seeing a very small part of the fire and explains the huge smoke plume we saw. It was really windy up there yesterday, which must have contributed to it in a big way.

According to the news at least four of the houses lost so far belonged to firefighters.

Fingers and toes crossed, Robbie.

Nemo
09-07-2010, 10:15 AM
Robbie,
You probably don't need it but if you do I have a property I am selling and would be happy to lend it to you if you find that you need somewhere to stay. It is sitting empty and resides in Capitol Hill area. Not sure of your animal situation but just in case.

I am praying that your house is fine but as you said you have all that you need. Take care and know we are here for you too....

RockRunner
09-07-2010, 11:36 AM
Bummer, I only got one side of the roof done with the metal(thank Kraig).
Only can leave things up to the universe as to if the house will be gotten by this fire. I do hope the winds drop so the planes can fly with water and retardant.
.
Robbie as SOON as you can get back into your house LMK. I will come over and help you all I can. I am opnen this week so jut call me :thumb:

303-829-0703 Cell
729-981-0306 Home

T

BreckBJ44
09-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Robbie,

I (stupidly) tried to call yesterday when I heard the area the fire was threatening but I only have the home phone. The answering machine never picked up so...

Either way, I wanted to let you know that if you and your family need a place to crash, my house in Breckenridge is open and available as long as you need it if that is not too far away. I can delay renting it as long as you need.

Bright side is that if the worst happens, at least we didn't put all the work into finishing the whole roof!

I know I have a bit of a warped sense of humor.

Let me know if I can help with anything else! Good wishes!

Kraig

Hulk
09-07-2010, 12:41 PM
Time lapse of the forest fire in Boulder, CO shot at sunset last night. (http://vimeo.com/14759756)

Rezarf
09-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Robbie, when you get access to your home again feel free to call. I can mobilize 100 college students on very short notice to help with any kind of clean-up on your property and or your neighbors.

Hulk
09-07-2010, 01:12 PM
Saw this on the Denver Post website (http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2010/09/firefighter-photos-near-gold-hill/#11). Robbie, did you have a 40 at your place?

L43dean
09-07-2010, 01:14 PM
KGNU, A.M. 1390 has been giving frequent updates. I recieve their signal here in Aurora loud and clear. Maybe we (the club) can buy one of Marv Specter's Fj-55 fire engines. I bet we could park it in Robbie's driveway. I want to help too if you need anything Robbie! Dean 3036932109

corsair23
09-07-2010, 01:50 PM
Looks like the place with the 40 is either the Colorado Mountain Ranch, or right next door to it...Incredible pictures :( - Including the one showing, I believe, some metal that melted and flowed downhill and then re-solidified...

nuclearlemon
09-07-2010, 01:53 PM
Saw this on the Denver Post website (http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2010/09/firefighter-photos-near-gold-hill/#11). Robbie, did you have a 40 at your place?
those look like school busses in the background

Inukshuk
09-07-2010, 02:02 PM
Saw this on the Denver Post website (http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2010/09/firefighter-photos-near-gold-hill/#11). Robbie, did you have a 40 at your place?

I used to live on the road to Robbie's house. (no house news from those friends yet) If you have been up to Robbie's then you know there has been a White 40 parked at an intersection where you turn off County Road 83 to get to Robbie's. Its been there 15 + years.

As someone else said, this burnt 40 photo is captioned "Colorado Mountain Ranch" and its not the site near Robbie's house.

The fire started close to and SW from Robbie & Robin's house and my other friends' home. Keep all those fingers and toes crossed.

rover67
09-07-2010, 02:32 PM
looks like they are hitting it hard with the airplanes and helicopters. They have been flying overhead all afternoon. planes basically swapping places, looke like maybe 3 in total but I may be off there.

L43dean
09-07-2010, 02:34 PM
I was cleverly typing my smart alec remark about the Cruiser fire engine before I saw Matts post of the burnt 40. Not so funny now, my tummy hurts!

Dr. Schlegs
09-07-2010, 02:40 PM
I was cleverly typing my smart alec remark about the Cruiser fire engine before I saw Matts post of the burnt 40. Not so funny now, my tummy hurts!

I think a little humor might be needed. If anyone would welcome a LC fire engine at this point it would be Robbie and all of the family here in RS. If anything does happen I am sure RS will give the Red Cross a run for their money.

pmccumber
09-07-2010, 02:55 PM
Fried posted this on FB:

AxleIke
09-07-2010, 03:02 PM
I was just on the phone with UB a few minutes ago, and he was out north of boulder and east, and said he was able to see robbies house through either a telescope or binoculars. He said it was still standing.

The fire was only about a mile away, however, but, at that time, the wind had shifted and was blowing it directly away from robbie's house.

Still sending prayers robbie.

Rock Dog
09-07-2010, 03:14 PM
I was just on the phone with UB a few minutes ago, and he was out north of boulder and east, and said he was able to see robbies house through either a telescope or binoculars. He said it was still standing.

The fire was only about a mile away, however, but, at that time, the wind had shifted and was blowing it directly away from robbie's house.



That is great news! Hope the news continues to be positive, and the fire is under control soon...

corsair23
09-07-2010, 03:15 PM
Sending the good Karma, and Cruiser Karma, and whatever other kind of Karma I can think of Robbie's way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PabloCruise
09-07-2010, 03:38 PM
I was just on the phone with UB a few minutes ago, and he was out north of boulder and east, and said he was able to see robbies house through either a telescope or binoculars. He said it was still standing.

The fire was only about a mile away, however, but, at that time, the wind had shifted and was blowing it directly away from robbie's house.

Still sending prayers robbie.

Best news I have heard all day!

Yippee!

Uncle Ben
09-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Lot of fire still burning up there and the largest fronts are very near Robbie and Robins neighborhood. When I talked to Robbie earlier after I think I spotted his house through my binoculars he was relieved due to his neighbor (100ish yards away) under impression that their (neighbors) house was destroyed. I think it's total crap that with todays tech an updated fire map cannot be available for the evacuees to see. As I watched through binoculars I could see the command plane circling the area. You know there is a fire command center that has an active map, probably digital, that they could share with people on their reverse 911 call list that are clueless if their lives are at square 1 again!

Inukshuk
09-07-2010, 04:17 PM
...I think I spotted his house through my binoculars

From what location could you see up there?

MountainGoat
09-07-2010, 04:30 PM
I think it's total crap that with todays tech an updated fire map cannot be available for the evacuees to see. As I watched through binoculars I could see the command plane circling the area. You know there is a fire command center that has an active map, probably digital, that they could share with people on their reverse 911 call list that are clueless if their lives are at square 1 again!

I gotta agree with you there Kevin. Having lived through the Hi Meadow Fire, Snaking Fire and Hayman Fire up here the WORST part is not knowing. I can appreciate that the effort is being concentrated on fighting the fire as opposed public info but it should not be impossible for residents to be informed. :rant:

End of rant.

Uncle Ben
09-07-2010, 04:50 PM
From what location could you see up there?

Boulder Reservoir. I was at the county labs there and I remembered I could see it easily from Robbie's so I whipped out the binoculars and ....

bh4rnnr
09-07-2010, 05:02 PM
I was just on the phone with UB a few minutes ago, and he was out north of boulder and east, and said he was able to see robbies house through either a telescope or binoculars. He said it was still standing.

The fire was only about a mile away, however, but, at that time, the wind had shifted and was blowing it directly away from robbie's house.

Still sending prayers robbie.

Awesome news:cool:.

Lot of fire still burning up there and the largest fronts are very near Robbie and Robins neighborhood. When I talked to Robbie earlier after I think I spotted his house through my binoculars he was relieved due to his neighbor (100ish yards away) under impression that their (neighbors) house was destroyed. I think it's total crap that with todays tech an updated fire map cannot be available for the evacuees to see. As I watched through binoculars I could see the command plane circling the area. You know there is a fire command center that has an active map, probably digital, that they could share with people on their reverse 911 call list that are clueless if their lives are at square 1 again!

Probably a long shot, but what about Google Earth? How often do the update there maps?

But like others have offered Robbie, i'm free all weekend. Hopefully things will be in better shape soon to know what is gonna be needed and such.

powderpig
09-07-2010, 06:19 PM
Well I have been in Boulder all day for 3 up dates at the justice center. Over 63 structures have been destroyed. They have only gotten around to 1/2 the areas they can get to. 9 fire fighters houses have burned to the ground out of the 63 counted so far. It has to be not so good for them right now. The fire is 0% contained (new stage 1 commanders statements). They are doing the best they can to do what is called point fire fighting. This is where they fight off fires at a structure site.
Yes the burned 40 is out at mountain ranch, it is mostly burnt down, but they did save the old Lodge.
The fire is far from over currently, it has gone from 3500 acres to 7100 acres( I have not seen this in print, this came at the 4pm briefing from the new fire commander).
Yes 9 planes have been in the air, 2 spotters and 7 slurry bombers. They have 2 helicopters taking water to the hills as well.
More ground crews are coming in to help fight the fire. and more planes as well.
They do not have any idea when it will be contained. I have talked to a few people that have lost everything(even some animals because some road blocks would not let people back early in the day, I would not take NO for a answer).
We have heard the winds are going to pick. The best thing we can all focus on is rain or for the winds to not come back. More for the safety of the fire fighters that are up in the mountains. The keep saying the fire is unpredictiable.
thanks again for all the thoughts.

BreckBJ44
09-07-2010, 06:53 PM
Crap Robbie, Good Luck!

Fingers and Toes are crossed for ya'

K

Seldom Seen
09-07-2010, 07:29 PM
I think it's total crap that with todays tech an updated fire map cannot be available for the evacuees to see. As I watched through binoculars I could see the command plane circling the area. You know there is a fire command center that has an active map, probably digital, that they could share with people on their reverse 911 call list that are clueless if their lives are at square 1 again!

Probably a long shot, but what about Google Earth? How often do the update there maps?

Somthing like this? (http://wildfiretoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Google_Earth_Map_MODIS_0331_9-7-2010.jpg)

Found here (http://wildfiretoday.com/2010/09/07/update-and-map-of-fourmile-fire-near-boulder-sept-7/)

Found another one (http://www.geomac.gov/) Down load the "View perimeters in Google Earth".klm file then open in Google Earth.

JadeRunner
09-07-2010, 07:54 PM
Shucks. I've only been to Robbie's house once but based on that excellent map it looks like he is just inside the fire perimeter.

Corbet
09-07-2010, 07:56 PM
Best of luck with this Robbie. Marianne and I had a scare this summer when a forest fire was within a mile of the house. We certainly understand. We did not live here during the Missionary Ridge fire but many of our neighbors did. That fire burned about 20% of our subdivision. I don't wish that experience on anyone.

pmccumber
09-07-2010, 08:22 PM
Shucks. I've only been to Robbie's house once but based on that excellent map it looks like he is just inside the fire perimeter.

I saw that too. I had a friend who lived through the fires in the hills above Oakland. As we all know, the fires, especially in high wind situations, move through and leave lots of areas untouched. My friend didn't lose his house and it was amazing the seemingly random nature of what got hit and what didn't.

It could almost be good if the fire tore through the neighborhood and missed the house. Possibly then the fire could create its own firebreak.

Let's hope that it isn't even 50% inside that white box.

Inukshuk
09-07-2010, 08:28 PM
based on that excellent map it looks like he is just inside the fire perimeter.

Yup.

Inukshuk
09-07-2010, 08:37 PM
Just now from a neighbor very close to Robbie: "Day two of the Four Mile Fire in Boulder. To date, 7000 acres burned, 63 homes destroyed, 1000 people evacuated. As of 12:30ish today, our home of 18 years was still standing but many neighbors have lost homes.

Uncle Ben
09-07-2010, 08:45 PM
Just now from a neighbor very close to Robbie: "Day two of the Four Mile Fire in Boulder. To date, 7000 acres burned, 63 homes destroyed, 1000 people evacuated. As of 12:30ish today, our home of 18 years was still standing but many neighbors have lost homes.

And he knows that how?

Mendocino
09-07-2010, 08:59 PM
Robbie,

I have been watching this anxiously since last night; I'm glad things are looking more positive.. I am happy to help in any way I can. All the best to you and yours.:)

powderpig
09-07-2010, 09:02 PM
Well I have been reading a bit on a couple of News web site. Worst fire for size and amount of damage in 50 years, boulder county(so far).
The other worst fire was The Black Tiger canyon Fire of 1989(if I remember right sugar loaf area), 44 houses lost. this is all for boulder County, not other front range areas.
So we have stepped up a bit for devestation. There was no reference to the other history of size of fires in Boulder county previous to the 50 years(so far in my searching).
I think in the near future the natural gas compaines need to get more gas lines into these areas or they need to bury the propane tanks. It seems from on the ground accounts that these above ground tanks have restarted the fire or made some areas worse when they explode. Also owner need to learn to turn off the gas when they leave for a emergency evac situation.
Can you believe that Governor Ritter could only commit 5 million in state money ( I am sure they spent that in the first few hours today alone)to help this area. FEMA will be taking over soon and the Management team level is equal to Katrina management level( I do not know if I need to worry more or be relived).
Anyhow I hope the winds lay down tonight for the guys to work some magic.

Pray for rain.

Inukshuk
09-07-2010, 09:03 PM
And he knows that how?

I do not know how for certain, but I suspect through he and his wife being on Sunshine volunteer fire, her a volunteer EMT, and knowing all their neighbors.

I have asked him to relay any news on Robbie's house to me and whatever I hear I will text Robbie direct.

Seldom Seen
09-07-2010, 09:05 PM
And he knows that how?

Perhaps he did like a co-worker of mine did when forced to evacuate during the Hayman fire. She plugged an old style answering machine in and every hour would call the house. If the answering machine picked up, the house was still there.

Caribou Sandstorm
09-07-2010, 09:08 PM
Wow, Uncle Ben clutch spot of Robbie's House!

That has to be a giant relief you have provided, at least for now.

Way to go!

I was in Steamboat today and no clouds all day until about 3:30PM and boom a huge front rolled in from the west.

Maybe it will help with some rain!

Uncle Ben
09-07-2010, 09:10 PM
I do not know how for certain, but I suspect through he and his wife being on Sunshine volunteer fire, her a volunteer EMT, and knowing all their neighbors.

I have asked him to relay any news on Robbie's house to me and whatever I hear I will text Robbie direct.

Great resource!

simps80
09-07-2010, 10:07 PM
snip
Pray for rain.

we are indeed praying for rain tonight.

we are praying for safety for all of the fire fighters and others involved in the work.

We are praying for a quick and complete recovery for the folks affected by the fire and who have lost 'things' and who have lost 'things' that can't be re-bought.

And we are praying specifically for you and your family as well.

Inukshuk
09-07-2010, 10:20 PM
Encouraging news. Boulder OEM just published a list of homes lost and the Denver Channel 7 re posted. Robbie's house and my other friends' house are not on it.

Sadly, 50+ others are. Some *VERY* close to Robbie's on Sunshine Canyon Road.

Rezarf
09-07-2010, 10:31 PM
I just got home from working in Boulder and it at least appears the fire is dramatically less than last night. It could be we aren't able to see as much, but last night we were looking at orange hills tonight I couldn't see any fire anywhere.

We are pulling for you Robbie!

Drew

corsair23
09-07-2010, 11:14 PM
Pray for rain.

After waiting for about a month, I washed my LX yesterday afternoon...That usually means it is a sure bet to rain shortly...Sadly, it hasn't worked this time :(

FJBRADY
09-08-2010, 08:15 AM
Encouraging news. Robbie's house and my other friends' house are not on it.



Good news, all things considered!

Let me know if you need anything, Robbie.

pmccumber
09-08-2010, 08:56 AM
Personally, I saw the list of homes and was extremely deflated. To me, it looked like the brunt of the fire along Sunshine Canyon Drive was centered at Co 83 which is the turnoff to his place. At the east end is 5387 and the west end is 7878 Sunshine Canyon Dr (homes lost) and knowing the direction the fire was moving, that puts that area of homes right in the sights. This list really bums me out.

The fact they haven't listed any homes in there, and they haven't listed any down that route, doesn't make me feel any better.

I'm just hoping that the fire chose paths that don't include anything near his house.

And Kathy Sabine said that this morning the smoke would be held down in the valleys for some reason. Let's hope we get at least 1/4 inch of rain out of this thing today.

powderpig
09-08-2010, 09:31 AM
Well I believe that the reason they have not listed houses I know have burned near me, is the fire is to hot to get in to check stuff out. I know all the stuff in Misty Vail is gone(road off CR83 just before the old fire house), I know one up hill neighbor house is gone. And several peoples houses on 83 are gone. On the same token, I know several people who's house is safe according to reports from some of the VFF's(some down at the intersection of Whispering pines and CR83).Just have not heard about our house.
It is cool that Kevin saw the house, and as I stated before, it would be a Miricle(might just make me believe in them) due to the roofing felt being exposed to the elements/fire.
Off to due some things

SROR/AKA 2BAD
09-08-2010, 11:23 AM
i hope all is well up there robbie.
my sister had built two homes up in sugarloaf in the late 80s.
we watched the last s/l fire from her deck.
not sure if they are still standing.

very sad

nicholasandrews
09-08-2010, 12:09 PM
I hope everything turns out ok. Robbie, I work in Broomfield so if there is anything I can do to help please let me know.

Tch2fly
09-08-2010, 12:57 PM
Scary stuff, Robbie.
Glad to here things are ok at this point, I'm keeping up the positive thoughts for a good outcome.


Particularly sad pic from the Post website.
http://dpphoto.slideshowpro.com/albums/005/474/album-134372/cache/photo-19.sJPG_900_540_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?1283968609
http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2010/09/firefighter-photos-near-gold-hill

Uncle Ben
09-08-2010, 01:05 PM
GREAT NEWS SO FAR! Just heard from Robbie and he has had conformation that his house is still standing although the shed and out buildings are gone. Please keep the good thoughts and prayers flowing as the fire is still very close and embers are everywhere! :thumb::thumb: :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::robbie:

corsair23
09-08-2010, 01:17 PM
:woot:

Bummer about the out buildings and shed but great news about the house!!

Rock Dog
09-08-2010, 01:17 PM
GREAT NEWS SO FAR! Just heard from Robbie and he has had conformation that his house is still standing although the shed and out buildings are gone. Please keep the good thoughts and prayers flowing as the fire is still very close and embers are everywhere! :thumb::thumb: :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::robbie:

AWSOME UB !!! Thanks for the update!
The Storm clouds are building to the south down here, i hope Boulder gets some rain out of this, or at the very least that it raises the humidity level..

pmccumber
09-08-2010, 01:30 PM
Yes!!! Keep battling firefighters!

Wasn't that outbuilding a 2500 sq ft, concrete floor garage with a 10' ceiling? Wink, wink ;)

Hulk
09-08-2010, 01:30 PM
Awesome news. Maybe the third of a metal roof saved it!

Uncle Ben
09-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Yes!!! Keep battling firefighters!

Wasn't that outbuilding a 2500 sq ft, concrete floor garage with a 10' ceiling? Wink, wink ;)

I think it was much bigger than that, especially when you consider the paint booth and the parts storage upper floor! ;)

Inukshuk
09-08-2010, 02:38 PM
GREAT NEWS SO FAR! Just heard from Robbie and he has had conformation that his house is still standing although the shed and out buildings are gone. Please keep the good thoughts and prayers flowing as the fire is still very close and embers are everywhere! :thumb::thumb: :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::robbie:


Wow. And this just in from Robbie's neighbor on County Road 83: "Our house is still standing as of 9:30 this morning. But many neighbors homes have burned. Still a very active fire. Winds are supposed to return tomorrow which isn't good. We lost our barn, and any dreams of getting into the race horse business." (the race horse part is humor)

So, still serious business and these folks will need our cleanup help at a minimum.

PabloCruise
09-08-2010, 02:39 PM
These are some great updates!!!

Uncle Ben
09-08-2010, 04:05 PM
Wow. And this just in from Robbie's neighbor on County Road 83: "Our house is still standing as of 9:30 this morning. But many neighbors homes have burned. Still a very active fire. Winds are supposed to return tomorrow which isn't good. We lost our barn, and any dreams of getting into the race horse business." (the race horse part is humor)

So, still serious business and these folks will need our cleanup help at a minimum.

Agree! Maybe we should get a sign up list for folks willing to give some time (labor) to help our brother out.

FJBRADY
09-08-2010, 04:07 PM
Agree! Maybe we should get a sign up list for folks willing to give some time (labor) to help our brother out.

Count me in.

Rezarf
09-08-2010, 04:10 PM
GREAT NEWS SO FAR! Just heard from Robbie and he has had conformation that his house is still standing although the shed and out buildings are gone. Please keep the good thoughts and prayers flowing as the fire is still very close and embers are everywhere! :thumb::thumb: :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::robbie:

Count me in.

Great news, we are still praying. I felt sprinkles of rain an hour ago in Boulder and the slurry bombers continue to fly overhead about every half hour.

Come on RAIN!

And count me in for any help when it is needed.:thumb:

Drew

bh4rnnr
09-08-2010, 04:58 PM
Awesome news!

Looks like it's starting to sprinkle here in Downtown. Lots of dark clouds over Boulder.

I'm still free this weekend.

corsair23
09-08-2010, 05:07 PM
Agree! Maybe we should get a sign up list for folks willing to give some time (labor) to help our brother out.

Count me in as well :thumb:

MountainGoat
09-08-2010, 05:10 PM
Maybe we should get a sign up list for folks willing to give some time (labor) to help our brother out.

Count me in. :thumb:

AxleIke
09-08-2010, 05:28 PM
Been raining here in Boulder for the last hour or more. Pretty good rain, not too hard (washing everything out) not too little.

nicholasandrews
09-08-2010, 06:06 PM
Agree! Maybe we should get a sign up list for folks willing to give some time (labor) to help our brother out.

Count me in as well!

MountainGoat
09-08-2010, 07:12 PM
Holy close call batman. Here is a partial list from this (http://www.bouldercounty.org/newsroom/templates/bocodefault.aspx?articleid=2297&zoneid=1) website:

131. 6801 Sunshine Canyon
132. 6927 Sunshine Canyon
133. 7875 Sunshine Canyon
134. 7878 Sunshine Canyon
135. 503 Wild Turkey Trail
136. 365 Whispering Pines
137. 369 Whispering Pines
138. 374 Whispering Pines
139. 400 Whispering Pines
140. 454 Whispering Pines

There are 3 houses listed on Robbie's "block", NONE of which are his. So far, so good (crosses fingers & knocks wood).

RockRunner
09-08-2010, 07:13 PM
Sharon and I were talking around noon to set this up. Besides helping Robbie maybe we can help some of his neighbors. We can haul away burned debris and search for anything salvageable. I think any help we can lend would be greatly appreciated.

We have trailers and trucks that can haul stuff and tools to do what needs doing.

Robbie let's get your roof done ASAP.

Sharon and I are in.

RockRunner
09-08-2010, 07:16 PM
Can anyone tell us what Robbies address is please. We would like to check to keep our eyes out for Robbie.

MountainGoat
09-08-2010, 07:18 PM
Can anyone tell us what Robbies address is please. We would like to check to keep our eyes out for Robbie.

It's on the roster, Tom. Don't want to post it in the public forum.

Uncle Ben
09-08-2010, 07:31 PM
Holy close call batman. Here is a partial list from this (http://www.bouldercounty.org/newsroom/templates/bocodefault.aspx?articleid=2297&zoneid=1) website:

131. 6801 Sunshine Canyon
132. 6927 Sunshine Canyon
133. 7875 Sunshine Canyon
134. 7878 Sunshine Canyon
135. 503 Wild Turkey Trail
136. 365 Whispering Pines
137. 369 Whispering Pines
138. 374 Whispering Pines
139. 400 Whispering Pines
140. 454 Whispering Pines

There are 3 houses listed on Robbie's "block", NONE of which are his. So far, so good (crosses fingers & knocks wood).



Wow! If you lay all the Whispering Pines addies on Google maps satellite overlay you will see the fire must have followed the road right besides Robbies!

RockRunner
09-08-2010, 07:33 PM
It's on the roster, Tom. Don't want to post it in the public forum.

thought about that after I posted it. Thanks

Dr. Schlegs
09-08-2010, 07:36 PM
I will be out of town this weekend but, more than happy to help in any fashion I can.

Beater
09-08-2010, 07:49 PM
cal and I could help. need to re-wire my trailer harness though

Bikeman
09-08-2010, 08:48 PM
I can help out if needed in any way Sunday and Monday. I have a 6x10 trailer.

powderpig
09-08-2010, 10:26 PM
Right now the fire commander does not know when he will let people back in to my area. People in the lower Lee his area, old stage road and one other area are being allowed in tomorrow. The rest of us have to stay out.
The new count on the size of the burn area is 6200 acres. They dropped over 100000 gallons of slurry today, 90,000 the previous day. The rain has helped, the commander also stated to not get to wishful at this time as high winds are predicted (for tomorrow) and dry weather for the next couple of days.
I do not know if we will be allowed in this weekend, will have to wait and see. I will try and post a couple of pics if I can figure it out. Not of my house, maybe the shed Yard art at best. Some really cool shadows and flows of metal off all the rims that used to be aluminum.
So before I state a little of the losses, I would like to say I am thankful that the house is not burned down.
The sheds contained a bunch of stuff. I know the wife relized she has no Christmas decoration, some really old that have been passed down from her grand mother and for all our kids.
Yard art is the rims and tires I used to have, made some real cool features. The roof top tent is gone, my Kleins are gone(Old mid 80's pinnacle hard tail, carbon fiber Manta race(made before the company sold to a parent company), all my climbing gear, my favorite Ice axe that has saved my ass more than once(that is about the hardest thing for me to loose in the shed, may sound silly, I carried that axe for over 10 years and countless peaks, it was a good friend). Lots of Land cruiser parts, and toyota mini truck parts, books, FJC stuff I had stashed. Lots of other stuff. I do count my self lucky the house is still standing.

Cool pic's of melted rims, the metal made cool little rivers. I did not know forged metal rims will burn(that is what the pic show, I know this thread is useless with out Pictures).

I do want help, I do not know when they will let people back in to work on there places. Please be patient, It is hard for me to be patient. The fire needs to be out and the area safe before they let people in. Please keep us in your thoughts, it may be one of the reasons we are 1 of 5 out of 11 houses on our little road that has survived the fire so far. Every one on our road has sustained damage in one form or another. If not the main house, the a out building such as ours. So while the page of houses is some what complete, it does not tell the whole story yet. And we still have a few days to get through before the end of this.
Thanks again for all the great thoughts and feed back. It does mean a ton to Robin and I. She read this for the first time tonight, and almost cried on how great a community we have in the Rising Sun club.
Robbie

Shark Bait
09-08-2010, 10:55 PM
Robbie, glad to hear your house is OK. So sorry to hear of your other losses, but at least you are all safe.

Chris

Inukshuk
09-09-2010, 01:06 AM
I do want help, I do not know when they will let people back in to work on there places. Please be patient, It is hard for me to be patient. The fire needs to be out and the area safe before they let people in.

You will have it. Earlier today I spoke with some friends who have two dump trucks and a Bobcat. They'll help us out as they can, probably so long as we fuel the rigs and bring them back clean. They also live in Boulder.

I just returned from photo trip to Boulder. I will post more photos soon in a separate thread. I will also report on HAM activity in another thread. The road in from the Peak to Peak is open until right at Sugarloaf Mountain so we were able to drive to the parking lot at the base and hike from there. The entrance to the Switzerland Trail from that parking lot is closed with police tape.

The burn is huge. Its still smoking and still burning. As night fell we could see small areas of flame and fire truck lights. Its big, its ugly and its not out. It was pouring rain as we drove up Boulder Canyon, but clear by Nederland. We were then treated to crisp cool air which was at odds with the charred scene unfolding below.

We were also blessed with a spectacular rainbow, the North end of which ended right at the ridge were I believe Robbie & Robin's home is (those radio towers being the Lee Hill Towers).

I also believe that I spotted my other friend's house and barn intact.

Beater
09-09-2010, 05:59 AM
If it's this weekend, we can help, next is out as I am in Wisconsin. The next is good.

j

RockRunner
09-09-2010, 08:09 AM
Robbie,
no rush on asking for help, we know you need to absorb some of the loses you are experiencing.

When you are ready let me know and I'll come help you with the roof. I may be working on Jeremy's house but I am sure he will understand why I won't be there.

If you need anything else done before that LMK as you know I am sort of free these times.

Still thinking good thoughts for you and your neighbors.

RedCreeper
09-09-2010, 08:57 AM
Robbie, been keeping an eye on this post and glad to here all is safe. I have tools and a 18ft flat deck car hauler that we can load up if needed. I know the truck may not haul much weight wise (work in progress) but can still utilize it if needed. Mostly available on weekends. Just let us know when we can get in there.

Not to take away from this post but that rainbow was right in my back yard. First time i seen both ends of one. The other shot is on monday from my place. The smoke just started rolling in.

pmccumber
09-09-2010, 09:23 AM
Lily wanted to know if Jackson was safe. I'm sure he is. For some reason, it is fun to hear my 9 year old daughter say "Jackson".

BreckBJ44
09-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Robbie,

I'm in to help fininsh the roof an anything else you can think of this week. I'm sure you'll want a day or two once they let you back to sort through and get your bearings before we all come up to help clean up... You just let us know when you need us as we will be there.

wesintl
09-09-2010, 12:42 PM
crazy. glad to hear the home is still standing amongst all the others in ashes. we're here for ya if needed.

Art Volmer
09-09-2010, 03:10 PM
Robbie I am glad the family is okay and the main house is still standing. I can help when you need it and will keep an eye on this post for the clean-up dates that work best for you.

RockRunner
09-09-2010, 08:05 PM
Any more updates since the winds have shifted or are about to?

Robbie, you can use my trailer any time you need it.

powderpig
09-09-2010, 08:14 PM
I can not get in even in the back way today, I tried. I did not know how much trouble I would be in if I crossed Police do not cross tape. I guess I was a bit of a chicken. But the slurry bombers were over head on the ridge and that was a deterent as well. i would hate to have slurry turn me red.
Anyhow, the winds are building and may reach up to 60 mph tonight, mostly from the west. They have got people prepping on the west side of Broadway and north of Spruce(I believe) just in case if the winds do drive the fires down into town tonight. They just do not want any one hurt.
They allowed people in and then shut it down and evac the same people they let in today. So many people did not get back in because of the lines and time involved in checking people through.
I will more than likely get in tomorrow, even if I walk in to get some things and see if the house is still standing.

Lars
09-09-2010, 08:34 PM
:thumb:Let us know how is goes. You have a big team behind you to help with any need. Just let us know what those needs are!!!

waggoner5
09-09-2010, 08:38 PM
I'm in with my Kubota if need be. Its got a bucket and blade to help with clean up.

Rezarf
09-09-2010, 10:51 PM
Robbie, if you want a second set of boots on your hike to hual anything else out. I can be available.

powderpig
09-11-2010, 10:09 AM
Well it looks good that they get the fire under control by monday or tuesday. Weather is looking good for the next few days. They are mostly cleaning up hot spots. They say they have 56% containment at this time. No new structures have fallen. I did get in again yesterday to get out stuff that we can never replace(mostly the wife old spanish stuff, family heirlooms). Also to get the other drivable car out. House is still standing, there was a fire crew stationed around our house mostly because it is at a high point on the rd. they can see any problems coming and respond.
Good news in many ways. I did see many power lines down and wires melted. Excel did say that it could take a month to weeks to get it all repaired in the burn area. I do not have too high of hopes for us to be in service any time soon(the bad news).
Any how, I may have access to my tool next week to do work and start to catch up.
The wife and kids are doing Ok. I have gotten some pics of peoples house so they can have good news and bad news and move on. I think this has been a good thing for the community.
Hiking in yesterday was a bit fun. Staying out of site of several fire crews so I would not be turned around. Staying out of site of the helicopters and planes that was over head was a bit fun. Driving out was a bit of a let down, I was not stopped and questioned by anyone. It was sort of nice. It will be a few years before it gets green up there.
Most of the trees we have around us are green, we are fortunate.
I will let you all know when they will let in people with clean up crews.
Thanks again for the thoughts and good prayers.

LARGEONE
09-11-2010, 10:43 AM
All good to hear Robbie.

MountainGoat
09-11-2010, 12:06 PM
... Most of the trees we have around us are green, we are fortunate.
I will let you all know when they will let in people with clean up crews.
Thanks again for the thoughts and good prayers.

That is GREAT news Robbie! :thumb:

bh4rnnr
09-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Great news Robbie!

Rezarf
09-11-2010, 12:24 PM
Thats GREAT NEWS ROBBIE! Its so sad for those who lost everything they own, but we are rejoicing that you and yours are safe with a house intact.

How's the smoke damage Robbie?

When you are ready for help, I am ready to work.

Drew

RedCreeper
09-11-2010, 03:54 PM
Good News!! Glad everyone is safe. We will be waiting for the announcment for the clean up crew.

Rock Dog
09-12-2010, 01:47 AM
So glad to hear it Robbie.. It sounds just like you...., enjoying the adventure of a form of "escape and evasion" making it back to your house on foot.. No matter what the situation, you just cannot seem to help that adventerous spirit from shining through.. Keep us all posted on what we can do, and when we can help out...

Inukshuk
09-12-2010, 02:02 AM
The wife and kids are doing Ok. I have gotten some pics of peoples house so they can have good news and bad news and move on. I think this has been a good thing for the community.

Robbie,
Thanks for updating. Glad Robin and the kids are holding up well.
I had not posted this earlier out of overall sensitivity, but Wednesday I was able to see Steve & Lisa's house and report that its 100% ok - even the barn they thought burned is ok. I did this from the top of Sugarloaf Mtn. Is Sugarloaf Mtn. visible from your house? if so, I probably have a photo of it. But I did not know what to look for. I did a series of the ridge below Lee Hill with my friend's 400 MM lens.

Like the rest, ready to work when you are ready for it.

So relieved,
Daniel

Gmann
09-12-2010, 08:41 AM
Robbie, Really glad to read your update. I think the toughts and prayers helped a bit. Down the road, if you need Framing skills on hand I am more than willing to help. Let me know if I can help in any way. Just shout out.

Hulk
09-12-2010, 09:41 PM
These links would have been more useful a few days ago, but here they are anyway:

Internet resources on Boulder fire:


Daily Camera fire coverage: http://www.dailycamera.com/fourmile-canyon-fire/

Boulder Office of Emergency Mgt: http://boulderoem.com/emergency-status

City of Boulder Home page: http://ci.boulder.co.us/

Loss of homes over $81 million so far: http://is.gd/f3CAz

Four Mile Fire Help: http://fourmilefirehelp.com/

Twitter feed: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23boulderfire

powderpig
09-13-2010, 06:35 AM
Well people get to go back home to clean out the fridge and such up(look at there homes either intact or burned) Sunshine county road up to CR 83 today. I hope we will be able to do this later today or tuesday. The LEO's will be manning road blocks for at least one week after they open a area(there have been request to man the road blocks for 2 weeks).
Got together with a bunch of the neighbors yesterday, it was nice to see them.
Yes those web sites are good Matt. The Boulder OEM one is the one the news draws from as well as from interviews.
We will be talking to a insurance Agent today, decide if we need the help of Daniels friends or not. Go to some other meetings.
I have not see or heard anything yet about the other fire, will look this morning. Tried to watch the news last night about that fire, but fell asleep waiting for it.
I also hope no one is hurt, but did see the smoke change colors a couple of time indicating a structure had gone up. At least the fire fighters are around and the slurry bombers were able to take off right away.
Bummer

Beater
09-13-2010, 07:01 AM
Robbie -

Tried texting you earlier in the week, so I'll just put it here. I now have a second vehicle, so the truck is yours if you want for hauling/towing purposes. I had to splice in new tail lights, as the trailer harness had been mag clhorided, so there is no harness. I can get one though very quickly. I am leaving early thurs am for a fishing trip to wisconsin, so let us (the club) know if you need someone to ferry it up to you.

Call me if you have battery if you want me to wire up the harness - 303 nine o six 8693. Let me know. Hell, you can take the HF 4x8 trailer with you if it helps.

treerootCO
09-13-2010, 09:11 AM
Let me know if you need anything. It is good to know you and your family are safe.

leiniesred
09-13-2010, 09:47 AM
Robbie: Been following your story closely, but trying to keep down the clutter. Glad things are good. Ready to pitch in. barn raising?

Inukshuk
09-13-2010, 10:50 AM
This is post-burn Google Earth Images.

Air Randy
09-13-2010, 05:17 PM
Robbie,

I just got back in to town and had to get caught up on this thread to see how you guys made out. I have a 2K Honda generator off of my camper you guys can use if that helps any. If you lost your welder when the out building went up let me know, you're welcome to take my Miller 180 and use it until yours gets replaced. Let me know if you need anything else.

powderpig
09-14-2010, 06:24 AM
Daniel: What a cool picture. It is nice to see the undamaged areas (in red) versus the burned out areas (in black). At first I thought it was all messed up. But I remember how green some areas were and put it together.
I had heard a couple of interesting things about big hot fires, where the ground is hurt and the trees die. Some was saying the Black Tiger burn was that way. I guess only time will tell.
Thanks for offer Randy. It sounds like you had a great time on the Rubicon. It is one of my favorite single trails in the US.
Well the OEM site says the fire is 100% contained(not out, still hot spots). Good thing. We will wee when they open up our area to go in.

corsair23
09-14-2010, 12:23 PM
We will wee when they open up our area to go in.

Going to help personally put out some hot spots are you? :hill:

powderpig
09-19-2010, 08:11 AM
Well it seems like the fire is out(and the 2 others that happened while the feds were here). I have been up almost every day this last week (since they lets us in). Excel and Quest have been working hard to get the power and such back up. Talked briefly to a Quest guy. It seems like our little mini hub for the area will get Optical fiber to it so we can have faster internet connections(they put in optical fiber in a couple years back to gold hill).
I met some FEMA people inspecting the area to determine if we meet the their standards for Disaster aide(I would like the HUD low cost home loan, get it away from the horriable mortage company we have now). Talked with a bit, showed them around to a home that they could not find(maps were wrong). Good conversation with these people. Just need to wait and see.
Anyhow may be this coming next weekend I will need some help to clean up and work on the Roof or early the following next weekend. I really do not know the timing of it all currently.
It was hard to start sifting through the contents of the big building(big compared to the other 2). It had a bunch of stuff I had not sorted to put in the house(lots of stuff from my life in Alaska). Well I guess it is time to move on. We lost all of the Christmass stuff that has been passed down from her family that is gone(mother, grandmother etc).
I have read some interesting stuff on how people are affected and how in about 1/2 truly move on(in a short time period) and will get beyond this type of disruption of there lives. The other 1/2 never really get beyond the incident for many many years.
Again, we are fortunite that we did not loose it all. We will being doing some different things with the house( full home gen set, cistern for watering and fire fighting, more mitagation, etc).
Life will good again soon.
Thanks again for all the good thoughts and thanks ahead for any and all that come to help in the near future.

Inukshuk
09-19-2010, 10:23 AM
Good update. Tough ordeal to go through.

Rezarf
09-19-2010, 11:18 AM
Glad to hear this Robbie. Thanks for the update.

lfd270ben
09-19-2010, 12:37 PM
I really wish I had read this earlier. I worked the Fire for 11 nights most of it assigned to division Gulf (Sunshine canyon and CR 83). I drove by your house probably a hundred times in my engine each time trying to figure out a way in my head to rescue the FJ out front. Sorry that we could not save your out buildings.
Ben

RockRunner
09-19-2010, 12:48 PM
Great news Robbie. Keep us updated and let us know ASAP when you need our help. We may need time to plan our schedule and make time but we will make time.

Inukshuk
09-19-2010, 02:33 PM
I really wish I had read this earlier. I worked the Fire for 11 nights most of it assigned to division Gulf (Sunshine canyon and CR 83). I drove by your house probably a hundred times in my engine each time trying to figure out a way in my head to rescue the FJ out front. Sorry that we could not save your out buildings.
Ben

Did that white one at the junction of 83 & Whispering pines burn?

lfd270ben
09-19-2010, 05:13 PM
I'm pretty sure it survived.

RedCreeper
09-20-2010, 09:19 AM
We went up there yesterday. Not sure where i was to be honest in the beginning. I think one road was called Arkansaw and Four Mile Canyon road. Anyway we went from there over to gold hill and down sunshine canyon. Not sure where Robbie is but maybe passed it in my wandering around the back roads and dodging Excell trucks. Pretty sad to see all the damage this fire has done. Lynnette and I just still cant believe how the fire stayed on one side of the road and left the other side alone. Well for the most part. Even went by a house where the slope of the roof was barely above the slope of the mountain and the fire went right over it. Sorry to hear about your stuff Robbie. Sunday is out for us but Saturday is a definate maybe to get up there and help. Let us know.

RedCreeper
09-20-2010, 09:28 AM
Almost forgot you guys should ask net about the 10pt buck she could of petted sitting in the FJC. Was HUGE! He was feeding on the side of the road and slowly got up and walked away. If he was mad could of done a lot of damage. All she could do was stutter. UH UH UH UH .....