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View Full Version : Big 40 plans, anyone have past history advice?


gr8fulabe
11-28-2010, 12:20 PM
Hi all,
I have a 76 40 that has had a 71 F mated to the original 4speed in it since the day I bought it about 9 years ago. Over this long weekend, a friend & I took it to his garage in Littleton & pulled the engine/tranny/tranfser out as a single unit. It is not a truck with a big hole in it.

I also have, in his garage, and 83/84ish (don't recall exactly) 2F from a 60, and an Australian H55F/transfer case of unknown year that are going into it.

I am told it is pretty straight forward, but this is way beyond my parts changer abilities, so I figured I would ask if anyone here has done this before & has any real-world advice?

I know I will need to have the drive shafts changed, and I will have to get some sort of crossmember mount for the tranny. But what else don't I know about? Also, any tips on what motor/tranny mounts I should put in there? What would be the best, "upgrade" piece for these?

Can anyone offer up one of the local shops to provide whatever parts I will need? I don't mind ordering from afar, or buying from Mud, but if I can give my money to a local, club affiliated shop, that is my first choice....

I've got some pics that I will post up, just in case anyone wants to see them, and thanks in advance for any advice!
Best,
abe

gr8fulabe
11-28-2010, 12:39 PM
Sorry, I meant to post this in the tech section. If someone with power can move it, I would appreciate it. Also, some pics are attached...
best,
Abe

Empty Engine Bay
22059

2F that will go in...
22060

Other side of the, "New" 2F
22061

H55F prior to cleaning - Bought from a friend in Oz & brought it over in my Troopy
22062

Old F/tranny/tranfer that was pulled out...
22063

RLMS
11-28-2010, 04:52 PM
You are going to have to run a new tranny mount, if you can get an fj-60 trans mouint that will be useable, but it will have to be modified! The rear x member will have to be modified as well! As far as I know know one offers these in a kit. We build ours according to each rig.
You will also have to figure out the e-brake as well! The split case has no provision for a drivel ine e brake. The rear axles had them instead. So a 60 rear housing for a core would be involved, cutting the rear drums off the 60 housing or cutting down the 60 housing to match the width of the 40 housing.

The fan shroud will also have to be changed, or the fan its self!
Start with that, and decide wether you want to proceed. some small things will also be involved in the process, but are very doable!


Is the fill plug of the h55 a factory plug, or has it been modified?
Justin

subzali
11-28-2010, 05:52 PM
You are going to have to run a new tranny mount, if you can get an fj-60 trans mouint that will be useable, but it will have to be modified! The rear x member will have to be modified as well! As far as I know know one offers these in a kit. We build ours according to each rig.
You will also have to figure out the e-brake as well! The split case has no provision for a drivel ine e brake. The rear axles had them instead. So a 60 rear housing for a core would be involved, cutting the rear drums off the 60 housing or cutting down the 60 housing to match the width of the 40 housing.

The fan shroud will also have to be changed, or the fan its self!
Start with that, and decide wether you want to proceed. some small things will also be involved in the process, but are very doable!


Is the fill plug of the h55 a factory plug, or has it been modified?
Justin

Abe, Drew (Rezarf) has an FJ60 2F in his '76 - he may have some input. I think the fan clutch makes the fan closer to the radiator and affects the fan shroud, as noted above.

You can get a later model 40 series axle housing with e-brake and that may be easier than going the FJ60 rear axle route for your e-brake. Among other things, I think the leaf size (width) changed, so that's something to look into.

RicardoJM
11-29-2010, 08:03 AM
Very cool project:D. If your head still has the oil galley plug, you will want to seal it up better (http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/351460-my-first-galley-plug-fix.html). I'm not much help with any of the specifics on putting in the H55, but for the fabricating work; Justin at Redline is local.

gr8fulabe
11-29-2010, 11:41 PM
You are going to have to run a new tranny mount, if you can get an fj-60 trans mouint that will be useable, but it will have to be modified! The rear x member will have to be modified as well! As far as I know know one offers these in a kit. We build ours according to each rig.
You will also have to figure out the e-brake as well! The split case has no provision for a drivel ine e brake. The rear axles had them instead. So a 60 rear housing for a core would be involved, cutting the rear drums off the 60 housing or cutting down the 60 housing to match the width of the 40 housing.

The fan shroud will also have to be changed, or the fan its self!
Start with that, and decide wether you want to proceed. some small things will also be involved in the process, but are very doable!
Is the fill plug of the h55 a factory plug, or has it been modified?
Justin

Thanks guys! This is my first attempt at a multi-quote response, so if it is messed up, I apologize. Justin - Do you guys get to Denver often? If so, would you be willing to take on the fabrication tasks needed? Maybe you could measure what is needed & make the parts for me, then I could try to install them? As mentioned, this is way above my abilities, but I figure I'll never learn more if I don't try. But I know I don't know how to fabricate things. Maybe you guys could use the opportunity to make a, "kit" to sell. I'm guessing they would be low numbers, but could still be worth selling. Can I run no E-brake for a while, and how do I remove the old cable/transfer case brake plate thing, without cutting the cable? Also, I have no idea about the fill plug on the H55F. I think it looked normal, but I don't know for sure? Any specific mods I should look for (or need), or are you just asking if someone welded a bolt on or something?

Abe, Drew (Rezarf) has an FJ60 2F in his '76 - he may have some input. I think the fan clutch makes the fan closer to the radiator and affects the fan shroud, as noted above.

You can get a later model 40 series axle housing with e-brake and that may be easier than going the FJ60 rear axle route for your e-brake. Among other things, I think the leaf size (width) changed, so that's something to look into.
Thanks Subzali! Are you saying the leaf springs on a later 40 are wider, or just that they are spaced wider on a 60 than on a 40? If it works, it seems like no e-brake is easiest to do, but I will try to score a late 40 rear axle to use, as I know I don't know how to modify a 60 axle.

Very cool project:D. If your head still has the oil galley plug, you will want to seal it up better (http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/351460-my-first-galley-plug-fix.html). I'm not much help with any of the specifics on putting in the H55, but for the fabricating work; Justin at Redline is local.

Hi Ricardo! I have had the freeze plug at the back of my 3FE threaded & plugged, are you talking about the same thing, or something else? It was mostly desmogged, so it has plugs put into the air rail, and might already be plugged there. But I will have to look for sure.

Thanks for all of the tips guys. Does anyone know if you can get poly bushing enging/tranny mounts, or do those only come for body mounts? My buddy is a jeep guy & he says I should upgrate to poly, but I don't think i have seen any before... Any other insights will be appreciated!
Best,
Abe

subzali
11-30-2010, 09:08 AM
Hey Abe,

-I *think* later model 40 ('79 and up? - coinciding with the addition of the e-brake at the rear drums) springs are narrower than earlier 40 springs. So I don't know if the spring perches and hangers are different as well. It would be really nice to be able to get a later model 40 rear axle and be able to use your current 40 springs on it, but I'm not sure you can - you'll have to look into it. Hulk and rover67 have later model 40s and may be able to help. And yes an FJ60 axle is almost 3" wider than an FJ40 axle, so the spacing of the springs is wider as well.

-Keep in mind that for events like Cruise Moab an emergency brake of some kind is required, so if I were you I would try hard to incorporate an emergency brake into your build somehow. Some people run line locks...

-The oil galley plug is located on the passenger side of the engine, near the back of the head (above and aft of your distributor). It looks like this (or should when you get it fixed with a proper plug):
http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=447139&stc=1&d=1283440337
http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192902&stc=1&d=1196644973

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/191622-oil-galley-head-plug.html

-I'm not sure on the poly engine mount thing...

rover67
11-30-2010, 09:24 AM
Hi Abe!

I was wonderin... can I have that tin piece towards the front of the exhaust manifold that directs hot air to the air cleaner on the 1F? Those aren't available for my year truck and I was thinking I could make something like your work..

Project looks like fun so far!!

RicardoJM
11-30-2010, 09:57 AM
... how do I remove the old cable/transfer case brake plate thing, without cutting the cable?

Are you referring to the E-brake cable? I am assuming that you disconnected it at the handle inside the cab already, i.e. you have not cut the cable and want to keep the cable in tact. If you have already cut it, then I would recommend cutting it again and leaving a stub in place.

To get the cable, you will need to remove the parking brake drum. There is be a pinion nut holding the brake drum in place. If it is a "more recent" pinion nut it is likely staked, use a punch/chisel to un-stake the nut. An impact wrench is very nice to spin off the nut. You can use a bar (crow/pry/long stiff rod) to hold the drum from spinning - just slide it between the posts that hold the drive shaft and the ground - but be careful not to damage the threads. I don't recall clearly the washers and/or shims that are under the pinion nut - just keep track of them and the order they come off in.

With the pinion nut off, the brake drum should slide off. If it does not, rotate the brake adjuster to loosen the pads and give the drum some love with a BFH.

With the brake drum off, you will see the end of the cable and how to get it removed from the brake arm. There is also a clip that holds the sleeve of the cable inside the housing. You will need to remove this clip - try not to destroy it in the process.

Once you get the cable out, re-install everything so that it is in its right place. That said, never re-use a pinion nut when you can get a new one but for holding the parts together and in place the old pinion nut works just fine. :thumb:

gr8fulabe
12-01-2010, 10:06 PM
Hi Abe!

I was wonderin... can I have that tin piece towards the front of the exhaust manifold that directs hot air to the air cleaner on the 1F? Those aren't available for my year truck and I was thinking I could make something like your work..

Project looks like fun so far!!

Hey Marco!

I have to check the big tub of spare stuff I got with my, "new" motor to make sure I don't need it, but if not then you can have it for sure. I was just going to sell the old setup anyway, so no big deal at all. I'm not sure how quickly I can get back down there to dig through the box, plus I am using the old motor as my, "map" for what it is all supposed to look like, so I wouldn't want to pull it right away. but I will let you know ASAP.
Best,
abe

gr8fulabe
12-01-2010, 10:08 PM
Are you referring to the E-brake cable? I am assuming that you disconnected it at the handle inside the cab already, i.e. you have not cut the cable and want to keep the cable in tact. If you have already cut it, then I would recommend cutting it again and leaving a stub in place.

To get the cable, you will need to remove the parking brake drum. There is be a pinion nut holding the brake drum in place. If it is a "more recent" pinion nut it is likely staked, use a punch/chisel to un-stake the nut. An impact wrench is very nice to spin off the nut. You can use a bar (crow/pry/long stiff rod) to hold the drum from spinning - just slide it between the posts that hold the drive shaft and the ground - but be careful not to damage the threads. I don't recall clearly the washers and/or shims that are under the pinion nut - just keep track of them and the order they come off in.

With the pinion nut off, the brake drum should slide off. If it does not, rotate the brake adjuster to loosen the pads and give the drum some love with a BFH.

With the brake drum off, you will see the end of the cable and how to get it removed from the brake arm. There is also a clip that holds the sleeve of the cable inside the housing. You will need to remove this clip - try not to destroy it in the process.

Once you get the cable out, re-install everything so that it is in its right place. That said, never re-use a pinion nut when you can get a new one but for holding the parts together and in place the old pinion nut works just fine. :thumb:

Thanks Ricardo,
Unfortunately, I didn't think it would come apart from the handle, so I disconnected the whole brake part from the Transfer case, thinking the cable would disconnect inside. So now I have a cable, housing thing hanging under the truck. I have all the parts, but I am sure I don't have the slightest clue of how to put it back together. I will look at the cable/handle connection when I get back down there & see if i can pull it out that way.
Thanks,
Abe

RicardoJM
12-02-2010, 08:17 AM
...Unfortunately, I didn't think it would come apart from the handle, so I disconnected the whole brake part from the Transfer case, thinking the cable would disconnect inside. ... will look at the cable/handle connection when I get back down there & see if i can pull it out that way

Do you know someone practiced in the contorsion arts? The first time (http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=6886&highlight=brake+cable) I did this in my rig it was a real pain. When I did it in the Mule, it was a pain - more so when I was re-installing it. A few steps that might make it easier; release the parking brake, loosen the bracket/bucket on the engine side of the firewall, lay across the passenger seat and transmission tunnel to facilitate getting the access.

Air Randy
12-02-2010, 12:34 PM
When I did it in the Mule, it was a pain - more so when I was re-installing it. A few steps that might make it easier; release the parking brake:doh::homer::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

subzali
12-02-2010, 12:58 PM
...lay across the passenger seat and transmission tunnel to facilitate getting the access.

Super uncomfortable...

gr8fulabe
03-03-2012, 09:58 AM
Hi All,

Reviving an old thread here. So far, this project has moved only a little beyond where the pics from over a year ago were. The 2f is more put together, but nothign has been installed into the truck, etc... The biggest reason for the slow action is that, contrary to my buddies best beliefs, I don't think we know enough to actually make this project happen very easily.

It was fine that it is taking forever to get done, becuase it is stored in my buddies garage in Littleton, so no harm no foul. BUT, now they just put an offer down on a house, and will be moving in like 4-6 weeks. I don't have a garaage yet (some day hopefully), and I don't really want to store all of this outside. So I was wondering if there is anyone out there that has the know-how to make this happen, that would be willing to help get the project moving along? I'd at least like to get the motor & tranny inside the truck before towing it anywhere, but would like it even more if the thing actually drove.

I was wondering if this type of project might be suitable for the CM wrenching session at Air Randy's, even though this truck won't be ready to go to Moab for a while (assuming nobody needs the space/time for an actual Moab bound truck)? If not, Shan'e garage works well, if there is someone that could help make this a reality. I'd be willing to volunteer my time/services on your projects in trade, so long as you realize I'm more of a willing warm body, than expert help so to speak...

So, is anyone out there possibly willing & able to help me get this going? Alternatively, I might need to try & do a fast sale soon on all of this stuff...

thanks,
Abe

nattybumppo
03-03-2012, 05:05 PM
Abe, probably not the best time to be looking for lots of help with this given the impending CM events that have a lot of people tied up. My suggestion...don't abandon this really schweet project. instead, find or rent a new shop or temporary storage unit...anything it will fit in, get it towed there and store it until you have the help and time necessary. It is too cool a project. If yoiur newer 2F is a running engine, how about putting the tranny/tfer on it and putting it in the truck, supported by a jack where the new fabricated support will have to be, then fab up a template from plywood for what you need and bring it to Justin to have him fabricate the real deal (shouldn't take too long). Or go out to Jim's Got Parts and buy one of the supports from the FJ60s they have out there, hold it up to see what you need modified, and take that to Jason for the work. The point being, you can figure out the driveshafts/parking brake/fan clutch stuff later if you get it rollable/towable now and get it into that shop/storage locker. Just too cool a project to abandon!

RicardoJM
03-05-2012, 09:40 AM
... becuase it is stored in my buddies garage in Littleton, so no harm no foul. BUT, now they just put an offer down on a house, and will be moving in like 4-6 weeks.

Bummer.

...I don't have a garaage yet (some day hopefully),

Bigger bummer.

...So I was wondering if there is anyone out there that has the know-how to make this happen, that would be willing to help get the project moving along?

The know-how for the H55 installation process is farily well documented - and straight forward. The challenge (for me) would be the fabricating skills and equipment access.

...I'd at least like to get the motor & tranny inside the truck before towing it anywhere, but would like it even more if the thing actually drove.

If I were in your situation, I would be giving strong consideration to putting the engine (original F or the newer 24) and 4 speed drive train back in the truck and getting the project to where you can let it sit outside.

...I was wondering if this type of project might be suitable for the CM wrenching session at Air Randy's, even though this truck won't be ready to go to Moab for a while (assuming nobody needs the space/time for an actual Moab bound truck)? ... So, is anyone out there possibly willing & able to help me get this going?

You are on the right track in looking for help. If I were doing the 5 speed swap, my biggest challenge would be the fabrication - because I am not a welder and lack the necessary tools. The shop (at Randy's) is well equipped with the fabrication tools and if you had the fabricating skills and this would be a great CM Wrenching session project. Over a weekend (both days would be very long) the core work for getting the engine and drive train in could be achieved. That said, if I were taking on a 5 speed swap - I would likely outsource the fabrication to Redline. While taking it on myself may save some dollors, professionals do this stuff for a living. Redline's fabrication work is top notch.

...I might need to try & do a fast sale soon on all of this stuff...
That would be an undesireable situation. Perhaps, as suggested above, in your situation you may need to put off the 5 speed swap and for the time being re-install the 4 speed setup.

Rzeppa
03-20-2012, 03:18 PM
I have several H55 swap articles on my web site. Here's one for an FJ40:

http://rzeppa.org/tech/H55.htm

One of the ways to deal with the e-brake situation is to do the monte carlo rear disk swap. There are a bunch of brackets out there to where it is a 2 banana job.