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baja1d
12-09-2010, 07:16 AM
Where is the best place to purchase adapter kits for a 350 engine and tranny conversion? Some of the vendors out there are really expensive. Here's what I'm thinking:

Currently have a semi stock 1964 FJ40 w/ 1F and 3 speed. I've switched to 4:11 front and rear '76 axles w/ disc brakes up front, a 2" lift, and full cage w/ seatbelts front and rear.

Thinking of putting in a '73 Chevy 350 w/ a TH350 that a friend has just pulled from his truck and willing to sell combo for $400. Engine is in good shape but friend had extra money and swapped in a brand new crate motor with 700r4.

Should I use his old set up with the motor and th350 combo or swap out tranny to a TH400, 700r, sm420, or sm465? My application is a DD at 65mph in the Colorado Rockies and moderate off roading with the possibility of taking rig to a more advanced off-roader. Keeping her stock went out the window the first time I tried going up I70. The 2F long block currently sitting in the garage is too expensive to rebuilt and I don't think it will pacify my HP needs.

One last thing- Stay with the original T/C or swap to a NP203 or NP208? I currently own a couple of 3-speed's with t/c's for spares.

Air Randy
12-09-2010, 07:44 AM
Advanced Adapters is the best. I don't know how they compare price wise with others but their stuff works right and is top quality.

I'm not sure, but if you go with the NP transfer cases you may have an issue with the output shafts being in less than ideal spots in relation to your differentials.

If you go with an automatic it will give you the best performance off road if you go to bigger tires but stay with the 4.10 gears.

Lots of folks do the V8 swaps but you will have other concerns to address like getting a dual core aluminum radiator and electric fans. Seems like without that setup almost every V8 swap I've seen runs hot and starts to overheat when going up the passes.

FJBRADY
12-09-2010, 08:03 AM
I have a 350, SM420, Stock case combo. It pulls strong up I-70 and is very trail capable also. 36" tires and 4:11's in the diff.

AA engine adapter is good stuff, but stay away from their t-case mount and motor mounts. I recommend a custom mount for the motor and t-cases or you will have constant leaks if you twist up the frame, ask me how I know......

The week link in the set up above will be the stock t-case. If you can swing it drop a 4:1 orion in place of the Toy case.

The 420 acts like a 3speed on the street because 1st gear is such a granny gear you don't need it unless on the trail. If my rig was a daily driver I think I would put a Toyota 4speed behind the 350 and switch to the Orion 4:1.

To Randy's point pull the stock Radiator or you will be pushing past 220 doing 65-75 on I-70 or even C-470 for that matter.

It's a lot a fun.....good luck:thumb:

baja1d
12-09-2010, 08:09 AM
After a little more research, the NP's are out the window. I'm going to buy an adapter and stay with my original t/c. However, I'm really struggling with which tranny to go with. Also, does anybody know if I can put a dual core aluminum radiator and electric fans in and mount the engine in approximately the same area as the 1F. The reason for the question is that I have an adapter plate for a 350 with original Toyota 3-speed tranny. I may just do this in the mean time while I decide on tranny's if I don't have to move the 350 forward and misallign the 3-speed.

FJBRADY
12-09-2010, 08:16 AM
Also, does anybody know if I can put a dual core aluminum radiator and electric fans in and mount the engine in approximately the same area as the 1F.

Not sure, as I still have the stock radiator, but now I trailer the rig so I don't worry about overheating on I-70......I am sure someone here knows the answer to your question about the radiator.

As for the transmission, if you are still considering the 420 or 465. FWIW, The 465 shifts alot smoother than the 420.

Air Randy
12-09-2010, 08:43 AM
The 465 is the modern version of the 420, the 420 is an old truck tranny, thats why it shifts sort of clunky. The 465 is geared slightly higher than the 420 but not by much.

I have an FJ40 with the dual core aluminum radiator, electric fans and Vortec 5.7 with a TH400 tranny. You're welcome to come look at it and take measurements.

If you go to the IH8MUD website there are a bazillion threads there on doing these V8 conversions and where to mount things up.

One of the reasons for using electric fans is to give you the flexibility to move the motor rearward and not worry about water pump driven fan placement, plus the e fans move a lot more air.

baja1d
12-09-2010, 09:26 AM
So many options!!! I have a 4-speed Toyota in the garage and the only reason I haven't installed it is because the ratio in 4th is the same as the 3-speed. A non-synco first gear hasn't been a big enough reason to swap. Is the Toyota 4-speed strong enough to handle the 350 HP?

FJBRADY
12-09-2010, 09:30 AM
Is the Toyota 4-speed strong enough to handle the 350 HP?

Not sure....my 350 is pretty mild. 200HP/300FTLBS out of a 92 Buick Roadmaster.

I think if you have a high HP motor it will tear the driveline apart, but it sound like alot of fun while your at it. :thumb:

rover67
12-09-2010, 09:42 AM
My FJ60 has a split case and an H55F. I think the H55F is pretty similar to the later 4 speeds (only has a 5th gear added).

Engine is a Vortec 5.3 which I think is "rated" at 300 or so HP and 325lb-ft at sea level.

I have flogged it all pretty hard over the course of 4 years and it has held up fine... but I bet the motor is making way less than 300 hp at this altitude.

I bet that a True 350HP motor would probably be pushing it if you drove it hard.. (and why would you build a high HP motor and drive it easy?)

Air Randy
12-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Keep in mind the 3 speed transfer cases are pretty brittle, if you're going to flog it hard with a built motor you are better off going with an Orion or Atlas T case.

You also better plan on installing longfield axles/birfs up front and chrome moly axles in the rear or you are going to get lots of experience swapping out broken junk on the trail.

rover67
12-09-2010, 11:06 AM
And just to clarify, the transfr case I am running is the FJ60 split case. the ones that came in the FJ60's and the 79-84 40's

RLMS
12-09-2010, 11:54 AM
Unless you relocate suspension components, the auto trans is a bad idea!
My sugg. is a tbi sbc, gm or toyota trans, and a orion! I wouldnt worry about not having a 5th speed unless you are going to be doing long road trips, the second part of that is the 350 will have enough power, and has a higher rpm range, so you can go 75 in a comfortable manner!

Also get rid of the AA motor and rear prop mount, like Brady said! They were designed for limited off road use. the 40 frames flex so much, the mounts don't move with the frame, so what happens is leaks and cracks all along the drivetrain:(

Justin

hyperboarder
12-09-2010, 01:59 PM
Marco, what was the donor on yours?

subzali
12-09-2010, 02:02 PM
From his thread on MUD:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/166720-new-heart-same-soul.html

rover67
12-09-2010, 02:27 PM
I think it was a chevy van or something... maybe a silverado...

baja1d
12-11-2010, 12:33 PM
Thanks for all the info. I think that I'm going to start gathering parts.

baja1d
12-14-2010, 03:01 PM
I maybe retracting my last post. After researhing engine conversions more I'm really stuggiling with if I should go through with it or not. Basically, I got to thinking of how much I would benefit from a 350 while out on a trail? Of course that got me thinking about from home to the trail. My conclusion was that I could deal with the 1F around town and from home to any trail in Colorado. I really can't see myself loading the Wife, 2 small Children, and the dog into the 40 and driving out to Utah; 350 or not. I could, however, see us trailering her out to Utah. Bottom line is that I really like that the '64 is 46 years old, still running, and mostly stock. Other than the trailer part, does anybody see any problems with this logic?

SteveH
12-14-2010, 03:17 PM
I have two stock FJs, and have reached the same conclusion. I can count on my hand the few times I've really needed big V8 power. The straight 6 has an undeniable charm. Also, if your truck is pretty much stock, it will retain appeal (and possibly value) down the road, over a V8 conversion. I think an axle conversion almost always makes sense, since disk brakes are a wonderful thing, on (at least) the front axle.

Also, you can find and swap a later 2F someday, and you'll have fewer oil leaks, modern ignition, etc. I put an '83 2F into a '65 FJ45, and it was a fairly easy and very nice swap. Still looked very appropriate in the engine compartment.

baja1d
12-14-2010, 03:26 PM
I'm glad that there is at least one other person that thinks like me. Ironically I have an '83 2F sitting on the stand in the garage. I figured that I would rebuild it in my spare time and transplant it if the 1F ever dies or I get tired of not having power steering.

Air Randy
12-14-2010, 04:24 PM
I'm glad that there is at least one other person that thinks like me. Ironically I have an '83 2F sitting on the stand in the garage. I figured that I would rebuild it in my spare time and transplant it if the 1F ever dies or I get tired of not having power steering.

Thats exactly what I did. My 74 had a worn out 1.5F in it. I drove it until it died and it was a struggle driving it on the street since the power was down so bad. In the interim I got a 1980 vintage 2F and rebuilt it top to bottom, including a performance cam and raising the compression slightly by shaving the head. With a rebuilt carb, headers and HEI ignition it runs orders of magnitude better now. But, in terms of raw HP it can't hold a candle to a stock V8.

I'm OK with driving in the right lane as I grind up the steep grades on I-70 since I only take it on short day trips occassionally, usually to go wheeling. I like the simplicity and reliability of the 2F. Plus I have a strong, reliable drive train behind it with no adapters or custom fabricated things to go wrong. I did upgrade my axles to FJ60 width and longfield axles, etc along with lockers and gears to increase strength, stability and offroad performance.

If you can live with 2F performance there are many benefits to going that route. Once you get offroad the 2F will actually out perform the V8 as far as torque and crawling through obstacles.

We also have a hard core buggy with a V8 and automatic in it but thats a totally different class of vehicle.

rover67
12-14-2010, 05:31 PM
My 60 has a v8 and I love it.

but... my 40 will stay stock with the 2F. It is slow and I am ok with that. The v8 swaps take time, money, and patience. Your truck with the stock motor is already figured out for you. That's pretty nice.

subzali
12-14-2010, 05:45 PM
There's a long thread on MUD right now in the 40 series section where folks are debating F series vs. SBC:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/441853-so-whats-wrong-f-engines.html

Marco's 60 is sweet, and so are Dave and Kim Brown's FJ40s (as well as a few other V8-40s in the club), but there's something cool about a stock '64:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/fj25-owners-group/297786-destins-1964-fj40-fst-restore-thread.html

And BTW, if you do swap out the F135 at any point don't just huck it; there are many people on MUD who would like to get their hands on pieces and parts from it for their restorations...

A well-running F/2F isn't all that bad, especially if your tires aren't monstrous. There are many of us in the club running F series engines that have driven them all over Colorado and Utah with no problems. Mine has no problem cruising at 65-70 mph all day long on road trips to Utah, the central mountains or the west slope. Just bring ear plugs and prepare to not pass anybody going up the steep grades. It's no big deal. Have you gotten a chance to get out with it and actually see what it's like driving around?

baja1d
12-14-2010, 08:37 PM
I've only driven it a few times and that was prior to the axle swap. I didn't really pay too much attention to how it was driving because I was too worried about stopping. I know Kim and Dave Brown pretty well. Dave is my neighbor and has pulled me out numerous times after getting stuck while plowing. I had my 40 when I moved next door but did really consider the possiblities until I saw his!

RLMS
12-14-2010, 09:15 PM
If you want to keet to -6 and want performance, a TBI set up with an adapter to the factory air cleaner will keep it "toyota" and have a major performance gain!

Justin

Mendocino
12-14-2010, 09:24 PM
I have a 75 FJ40 with a fuel injected 355 HP SBC (ZZ4) w/700R4 and Toyota TC. I have a four core Be Cool radiator and fan clutch. The TC has the propeller mount. The rig was dyno'ed at 5300' w/215 HP (261 ft #s torque) at the wheels at 4500 RPM. The propeller mount is horrible! I really need to swap it for something that works.

The 700R4 is overdriven so highway cruising is not a problem. The rig does get a little warm at extended highway speeds (>75 for >1 hour). I am sure that an electric fan would help.

Doing a SBC in a '40 is a complicated and expensive endeavor. If this is what you want I suggest you buy one that is already done and save yourself a lot of time and money.

BTW-running a rebuilt stock F is a great option.:thumb:

RLMS
12-14-2010, 10:01 PM
I have a 75 FJ40 with a fuel injected 355 HP SBC (ZZ4) w/700R4 and Toyota TC. I have a four core Be Cool radiator and fan clutch. The TC has the propeller mount. The rig was dyno'ed at 5300' w/215 HP (261 ft #s torque) at the wheels at 4500 RPM. The propeller mount is horrible! I really need to swap it for something that works.

The 700R4 is overdriven so highway cruising is not a problem. The rig does get a little warm at extended highway speeds (>75 for >1 hour). I am sure that an electric fan would help.

Doing a SBC in a '40 is a complicated and expensive endeavor. If this is what you want I suggest you buy one that is already done and save yourself a lot of time and money.

BTW-running a rebuilt stock F is a great option.:thumb:

A nice simple rubber mount off the 700r4 with a boltable, removable, mount to the frame sides is just what you need. With the auto, bolting a mount off of the factory T case, strains the alum. cases.

Justin

Mendocino
12-14-2010, 10:07 PM
A nice simple rubber mount off the 700r4 with a boltable, removable, mount to the frame sides is just what you need. With the auto, bolting a mount off of the factory T case, strains the alum. cases.

Justin

I have been thinking of giving you a call for a while. The adapter between the 700R4 and the TC would make a great mount location and the adapter just happens to be the same length as a Marlin Toy Box...:D

RLMS
12-14-2010, 11:19 PM
I have been thinking of giving you a call for a while. The adapter between the 700R4 and the TC would make a great mount location and the adapter just happens to be the same length as a Marlin Toy Box...:D

Nice...I like your way of thinking:D The toybox, split case combo is very strong and has a great gear selection! You would love the ability to be able to have different gear combos for, snow, mud, and rocks! Give me a shout if you have any ?'s with your mount or possoble new set up!!

Justin