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View Full Version : FJ60 5.3 Vortec Failed Emissions


rover67
12-29-2010, 11:30 AM
Holy cow, I didn't expect to see this when I went to get my emissions done!!!

Two years ago I barely squeaked by. This year I failed miserably.

I need to start looking at timing maybe? Maybe that speed sensor that has never worked right is messing things up?

TIMZTOY
12-29-2010, 11:38 AM
Well it is a chevy :rolleyes:

Chris
12-29-2010, 12:08 PM
And the standards have been tightened. Good luck Marco, I had a stock Yota 3FE that I eventually got to pass after 7 attempts. Thst's a big part of why the 62 is now owned by a guy in Iowa and I'm drving a 4Runner now.

60wag
12-29-2010, 12:39 PM
Its odd that the CO and CO2 readings are high at the same time. It must be running really rich. Is the O2 sensor healthy?

rover67
12-29-2010, 12:47 PM
I am assuming that the sensors are healthy... I mean, they are switching nicely in the software, fuel trims are what they should be, and timing is what it should be even.

They are probably 4 years old now?

Funny thing is it runs great.. no smoke, no nothing. gets decent mileage (14-17 depending), doesn't knock or ping either.

I need to dig into it tonight.

subzali
12-29-2010, 12:54 PM
yikes, good luck Marco.

Uncle Ben
12-29-2010, 12:55 PM
I am assuming that the sensors are healthy... I mean, they are switching nicely in the software, fuel trims are what they should be, and timing is what it should be even.

They are probably 4 years old now?

Funny thing is it runs great.. no smoke, no nothing. gets decent mileage (14-17 depending), doesn't knock or ping either.

I need to dig into it tonight.


Are you sure it's going into closed loop?

satchel
12-29-2010, 12:56 PM
What!? That sucks! Has it always been close to failing? When I had mine done in May it passed with flying colors, my speed sensor doesn't work correctly either. I hope the 5.3 in mine doesn't do the same after a couple of years. I have my dad's tahoe with the 5.3 at the moment and if you would like I can bring it out and we can hook up your laptop and compare numbers from mine to yours. Then again, it is a Texas truck that has never had to deal with emissions so for all I know it would fail too so it may not be the best to compare numbers to.

rover67
12-29-2010, 01:02 PM
Are you sure it's going into closed loop?

Now that's an interesting thought.... last time I checked it was. that was only a few months ago. I need to hook it up to the computer and see.


What!? That sucks! Has it always been close to failing? When I had mine done in May it passed with flying colors. I hope the 5.3 in mine doesn't do the same after a couple of years. I have my dad's tahoe with the 5.3 at the moment and if you would like I can bring it out and we can hook up your laptop and compare numbers from mine to yours. Then again, it is a Texas truck that has never had to deal with emissions so for all I know it would fail too so it may not be the best to compare numbers to.

Mine was close the last time, but it passed. nowhere near this bad though. I kinda doubt that if you have yours running right now anything will change.

Funny thing is it almost passed the requirements for an 85' truck... just fails for later model requirements. I need to get it figured out though... it should be running perfectly.

satchel
12-29-2010, 01:30 PM
Well, it sounds like you are running rich, and I find it interesting that the MAF sensor you have on your truck currently was causing my truck to run rich. Maybe we should swap again and see how it does.

rover67
12-29-2010, 01:42 PM
Well, it sounds like you are running rich, and I find it interesting that the MAF sensor you have on your truck currently was causing my truck to run rich. Maybe we should swap again and see how it does.

Just did a TON of reading on HP Tuners' site... I am going to try to "tune" the MAF sensor tonight....

satchel
12-29-2010, 01:52 PM
Well if you want me to bring the Tahoe out, just let me know. We can swap sensors around and such to troubleshoot if you like.

Jacket
12-29-2010, 03:58 PM
Are your numbers similar to 2 years ago, but you failed because of the new standards? Or have your stats degraded?

rover67
12-29-2010, 05:32 PM
everything was Juuuuust under the limit last year... like .1 under the limit. I got lucky. This year they are like double the standard. this is based on the same standards that have not changed for me anyways.

I just got done tuning the MAF sensor and it runs about the same. It was max maybe 4% off anywhere but i figured tweaking it wouldn't hurt.

I did notice that the vss was not working at all... no speed input into the computer. I'll be digging into that tonight

As far as closed loop goes I confirmed that it was indeed running in closed loop. Above a coolant temp of 131F anyways. Thats the stock number for it.

Chris
12-29-2010, 06:29 PM
everything was Juuuuust under the limit last year... like .1 under the limit.

Compare the previous test limits, they're lower than this year. I'm curious how much they changed.

rover67
12-29-2010, 06:45 PM
mine are the same.

dunno why but they are. and the previous test was 2 years ago (meant to say 2 years ago in the previous post). Keep in mind that my truck has a swap so it follows a weird set of rules.

FJBRADY
12-29-2010, 07:03 PM
Marco,

My 350 is out of a 92, but they base the pass/fail back to 1970 requirements. I passed the last two years no problemo, but I went to collector plates this time so I can beltch pollutants for ever and evah. You might want to swap out the O2 sensor(s) and give it another go.:dunno:

What a pain.

rover67
12-29-2010, 07:24 PM
Yeah, I actually noticed on the test sheet a few hours ago that it said to test it as an "85 light duty truck" and they tested it as a newer car hence the tight limits. I was going to bring it up when i went back, but I still fail the standards for an 85 truck so I'm not going to get through as is. My goal is to get it to where it is supposed to be since it being off probably means something is not right.. it *should* run with very low emissions.

I pulled the VSS out of it and broke it in the process... so NAPA is going to have to order one. Says it'll be here at 10 tomorrow. Maybe that will help.

After that I am going to look at other stuff like o2's and cats. It was running lean for a long time so maybe that did something to the cats..

bh4rnnr
12-29-2010, 08:12 PM
Knowing that I failed a few years back, before running it on the highway to get things warmed up, did you run it on the highway before hand? Get that baby warmed up! Makes an amazing difference!!

rover67
12-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Knowing that I failed a few years back, before running it on the highway to get things warmed up, did you run it on the highway before hand? Get that baby warmed up! Makes an amazing difference!!

oh yeah, she was hot.

Myredyota
12-29-2010, 11:54 PM
Marco,

The guy that bought my 87 Civic Si (as is where is) had a hard time getting it to pass. He went to the same testing place 5 times. Failed all 5 times. After the 5th time, he ran it hard to the one at 44th & Macintyre (sic). Passed with flying colors. Moral of the story, try a different facility.

corsair23
12-30-2010, 01:12 AM
2 bottles of Heet and call me in the morning :hill:

Seems to be the trick for us 80 series folks anyway. I always try to spend 30+ minutes at highway speeds before going in for a test. If there is a line, I don't shut the engine down either. I'm skerred that both the LX and the 80 are going to fail when their time comes up :o

PabloCruise
12-30-2010, 08:53 AM
oh yeah, she was hot.

Fresh oil?

rover67
12-30-2010, 09:54 AM
Fresh oil?

I have changed the oil recently, but am tempted to do it again anyways as you suggest.

Also, I need to check timing

PabloCruise
12-30-2010, 02:43 PM
I would definitely check timing, I think this can make a big difference. It does in perfomrance. I am not sure exactly how it impacts emissions that are measured at the pipe.

rover67
12-30-2010, 03:04 PM
I would definitely check timing, I think this can make a big difference. It does in perfomrance. I am not sure exactly how it impacts emissions that are measured at the pipe.

Usually backing off the timing helps.. at least that's what I understand and have experienced

rover67
12-30-2010, 11:44 PM
OK, so tonight I threw in the new Vehicle Speed Sensor and it seems to have helped a lot. The engine idles smoother and runs smoother. The old one was not broken (other than me breaking it while removing it), but I noticed that it was not reading the speed at all. Turns out it was just too far away from the reluctor ring in the Downey adapter thinggie. The Downey adapter uses a stock GM VSS but has a little set screw to hold it in place (kinda hokey). They recommend to measure the air gap between the reluctor ring and sensor and set it to some specified amount. It was silly coned in so breaking it to get it to move was my only option.

When I mounted the new one, I hooked the computer up to the truck and ran the motor with the tranny in gear and the transfer case in neutral. I pushed the new VSS into the housing untill I saw a nice steady speed read out on the computer and locked it in. It was interesting to hear the change in how the motor ran as the VSS picked up the signal and dropped it while I was moving it around.

I am still planning on checking cats and changing oil before trying to go back early next week.

PabloCruise
12-31-2010, 04:17 PM
It was interesting to hear the change in how the motor ran as the VSS picked up the signal and dropped it while I was moving it around.

I am still planning on checking cats and changing oil before trying to go back early next week.

That would have been pretty cool to witness! (Is this why some people call me a geek?)

Best of luck next week man! Keep us posted...

rover67
01-04-2011, 11:34 AM
Holy crap, I just changed the oil and it was wayyy overdue. Smelled like it was basically straight gasoline... ok well maybe not really.

The engine actually sounds a lot quieter now :)

And the new VSS makes the motor run a ton better. I can feel it. Lets see what the emissions folks say this time..

Uncle Ben
01-04-2011, 11:45 AM
Holy crap, I just changed the oil and it was wayyy overdue. Smelled like it was basically straight gasoline... ok well maybe not really.

The engine actually sounds a lot quieter now :)

And the new VSS makes the motor run a ton better. I can feel it. Lets see what the emissions folks say this time..

Good luck man!

jacdaw
01-04-2011, 11:51 AM
fingers crossed!
Holy crap, I just changed the oil and it was wayyy overdue. Smelled like it was basically straight gasoline... ok well maybe not really.

The engine actually sounds a lot quieter now :)

And the new VSS makes the motor run a ton better. I can feel it. Lets see what the emissions folks say this time..

rover67
01-04-2011, 01:52 PM
Blammo!

Passed!

Actually failed on the retest, but I noticed that the limits were still for a 99+ car, so I went to go talk to the state inspector and he made sure it was tested to 85 truck specs. He said that when they did all the new standards it kinda messed up the swap vehicles and they accidentally get tested as the year of the swap, not the year of the truck. He said that the cats were toast, but if it passes again I have a few years to fix it at least.

then when it went through again, the guy with the lifted jeep in the parking lot drove it... which was good.. because he talked to me the whole time i was there.

He said "I hate to see these old trucks fail so I drove it 'real' easy and started off in second gear since it felt like you had gears in it or somthin'... how do you like those tires?"

i told them I liked them a lot :)

they tested it every time with my 35's on there which measure something like 34 now. I am sooo glad I didn't have to swap tires back and forth for this fiasco! they also didn't charge me for the third test!

FJBRADY
01-04-2011, 02:06 PM
Right on, congrats!

subzali
01-04-2011, 02:12 PM
Sweet, very :cool:

Air Randy
01-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Nice. Curious though why you had so much gas in your oil, even if it's been awhile since you changed it? That alone could account for a lot of the bad readings you were seeing before.

RicardoJM
01-04-2011, 02:55 PM
Glad to see your adjustments resulted in the improvements needed to pass. Nice details on debugging steps in this thread. Congratulations:D.

rover67
01-04-2011, 02:56 PM
Nice. Curious though why you had so much gas in your oil, even if it's been awhile since you changed it? That alone could account for a lot of the bad readings you were seeing before.

In all honesty it didn't smell any different than any other oil that hadn't been changed in a while that i've seen before. It really needed to be changed though.

I think the only reason for the lower numbers was adding the VSS again. It would rumble and pop on decel without it which was probably it running rich a little bit.

I am going to throw some cats on it in the next week or so and take it through again just to see how it does.

60wag
01-04-2011, 03:34 PM
The CO2 on the first test was 849 and came down to 555 on the passing test. The CO is nearly half as well. That makes me think the first test was running way rich.

nakman
01-04-2011, 03:59 PM
good job, Marco... are you getting collector plates now?

rover67
01-04-2011, 04:40 PM
yeah, it was running rich without that VSS sensor I think... and maybe the richness was making the oil stinky. Even though it smelled about like oil from any other neglected car I have changed. I'll have to look at my book to see how long it has been in there though because now that I think about it it doesn't seem like it's been in there that long.

I would have never passed had the standards not been lowered for me though.

I think I still need some cats on it....

As far as collector plates go, I think I am out of the running for those given the new rules.. it's an '85. I missed that boat by one month... the rules changed about a month before my truck turned 25.

rover67
01-04-2011, 07:01 PM
well, just for the record, I checked my book and it looks like the oil was about 4k miles and 3 months old. Not too bad I guess.

I am going to order some new cats tonight and throw them on to see if that does any better.... they seemed to be running no hotter than the exhaust pipe when I checked them today.

jacdaw
01-04-2011, 09:21 PM
good job, Marco... are you getting collector plates now?On an '85? What, did Ritter rescind the damage he did before leaving office? If so, sign me up!

nakman
01-04-2011, 10:21 PM
Yeah, you're right John, never mind..:o

rover67
01-05-2011, 01:59 PM
So I got one of those fancy infrared thermometers and measured the cat temps today.... my previous method was more of a guess than anything else.

both cats (I have one on each cylinder bank) were reading about 400* inlet and 550*-600* outlet temps.

Seems like they are working based on folks saying that temperature differences of 100+ degrees are a good indication..

can anybody else comment?

this is after a period of time on HWY 36 then some idling before pulling in to the parking lot of lowes.

rover67
01-26-2011, 12:35 AM
S I am still trying to figure out why my motor is not runnign well in terms of tail pipe emissions.....

I've been wanting to send the injectors off for a while, so I went ahead and did it.

Well, 160 bucks later the injectors are all done.

I kinda thought that they were clogged or not flowing right but I was wrong. The are all flowing nicely, so the service by Witchhunter only improved them marginally.

I just ordered two new cats tonight. I'll throw those on and see what it does after that. Hopefully that does the trick. If not it's on to O2 sensors even though the seem to be performing nicely in the software.