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View Full Version : Rear Main Seal


baja1d
01-30-2011, 12:34 AM
Anybody know where I could get a rear main seal for a '64 1F? I'm not entirely convinced that this is the cause a my leak at the rear of my engine but I'd like to have the replacement seal available if it is.

nattybumppo
01-30-2011, 01:16 AM
Coolcruisers.com advertises both an aftermarket one and a Toyota one. If that year turns out to use the same as a 2F, I have a spare.

treerootCO
01-30-2011, 09:25 AM
I would go OEM.

OEM Rear Engine Seal '58 to 8/'87 - TOYOTA -around $50

rover67
01-30-2011, 10:04 AM
I would go OEM.

OEM Rear Engine Seal '58 to 8/'87 - TOYOTA -around $50

impressive date range..

nattybumppo
01-30-2011, 08:39 PM
I have an OEM and one from Kurt at cruiseroutfitters and I can't see any difference, except the price, $16 versus $46. All markings and the item look identical.

Air Randy
01-30-2011, 10:10 PM
Yep, but buying OEM and paying the higher price makes it better :rolleyes:

Amazingly, I never buy OEM gaskets or seals and yet I never have any issues with leaks. Just buy good after market stuff like Feld-Pro and it works fine.

baja1d
01-31-2011, 08:28 AM
Thanks fellas. Is this correct: '58 to 8/'87? If so, that will make things much easier to find.

SteveH
01-31-2011, 09:34 AM
Sadly, Toyota has ditched Koyo on some bearings, so when I discovered that Toyota wheel bearings for the front axle of my 1/80 FJ40 were stamped 'Federal Mogul', I bought them at a local bearing house for 2/3rds the price. I still buy Toyota oil seals for critical applications

74fj40
01-31-2011, 09:43 AM
Just because they look the same does not mean that they are the same.Many things need to be factored besides just looks. The material used to mould them may not be the same. Each material could be effected by heat and friction differently. Maybe the radial spring on the inside has a different tension.

In some situations, aftermarket parts are just as good as OEM. But for seals, I would stay OEM. Is it really a job you want to be doing twice?

Air Randy
01-31-2011, 04:58 PM
Just because they look the same does not mean that they are the same.Many things need to be factored besides just looks. The material used to mould them may not be the same. Each material could be effected by heat and friction differently. Maybe the radial spring on the inside has a different tension.

In some situations, aftermarket parts are just as good as OEM. But for seals, I would stay OEM. Is it really a job you want to be doing twice?

I guess it's just a matter of personal choice. If you think oem is better and you don't care about price, then buy oem.

I can tell you from personal experience, working as a professional mechanic, I never used oem parts unless that was the only place to get them. I can also say I never had to do a rear main seal (or any other for that matter) over again because of a bad seal. As long as you use a good quality (not checker el cheapo) name brand part, it meets or exceeds oem specs. A lot of these same companies actually build parts for the oem manufacturers.

rover67
01-31-2011, 05:29 PM
Seems like if I went to the dealer and got a bearing for a front wheel say... and it said it was "koyo pn XXXXX" that'd be the OEM right? Koyo that is.. they are the "Original Equipment Manufacturer"

So if say Autozone sells a "koyo pn XXXXX" front wheel bearing it too is OEM. OEM doesn't have to mean it comes from the dealer, just that it was made by the original equipment manufacturer. right?

Anyways, I have noticed that in *some* after market applications the non OEM stuff is in fact different. Whether that is good or bad depends. Sometimes the after market designs are better. Sometimes there are compromises to say extend a part number over more applications it seems.

Just to add my .02, I also have worked as a mechanic before as a full time job (maybe I wasn't a professional) and built some pretty high dollar race motors.. I used after market stuff in a lot of places. there were also spots where only "OEM" would go in. It just kinda depended on the part and my and other peoples experiences with it. Like I said, sometimes after market (a specific after market manufacturer) is better than OEM. Sometimes that's not the case. You have to talk to folks that have lots of experience dealing with the specific part/problem you are dealing with.

A good example is the axle seals on our front axles... Who will say to use OEM? nobody that knows... they will all say to use Marlin's seal.

So to say that all after market seals and gaskets are as good as OEM I think might be stretching it.... I do know one thing for sure though... that buying OEM (not necessarily from the dealer, but OEM) will at least guarantee you the performance that the thing had when it was new. Also, a lot of the time (maybe not with this rear main seal) the Dealer has good pricing on stuff compared to other places. If not, and you know what the OEM is, go check somewhere else. As was mentioned above, it looks like Kurt sells the "OEM" seal for much less than the dealer.... My search would be done at that point.

treerootCO
01-31-2011, 06:07 PM
The debate on Marlin vs OEM seals is 50/50 at the moment. Both make a fine product, don't get me wrong. The difference is what application is better suited for your needs.

Air Randy
01-31-2011, 06:37 PM
Valid point to clarify "non-dealer" versus "OEM" and for the most part I agree with you. I would also go a step further to say if you get a TRW roller bearing part #xyz that is made to be an exact replacement for a Koyo part # abc, I would not hesitate to run it.

The same would be true, for me anyways, of just about any other part.

What parts would you only use from a dealer, other than a proprietary item you can't get anywhere else?

Even when we built racing engines we used TRW pistons, Clevite rings & bearings, Edelbrock heads & manifolds, Crane cams/lifters/rockers/pushrods, Holley carbs, Accel distributors/coils, deep sump oil pans & pumps, forged rods & crank, etc. Basically you made a point of NOT using factory parts for everything but the block. On real high end builds you can even get after market blocks.

Hulk
01-31-2011, 06:42 PM
If rebuilding a 2F engine, I would use only a Toyota head gasket. The rest of the gaskets are probably fine.

RicardoJM
01-31-2011, 07:12 PM
From my own experience, the gasket or seal used is important and equally important is the installation. Fact is no quality gasket or seal (OEM or after market) is guarantee against a bad installation. I have messed up gasket and seal installations and because of this had the opportunity to do them again.

A quality gasket/seal (irrespective of where its source) properly installed is a thing of beauty to me. It is not hard to do, but it is something where attention to detail counts. Don't pay attention to the details and you will get to do it again. Someone experienced blows right through these details and makes it look easy. For those who are less experienced, it is the details (versus the gasket/seal used) where it is most likely to go wrong.

For seals, if the are not properly oriented, not properly seated or set at an angle - they will not seal. For gaskets, the area it is being installed in needs to clean, smooth and oil/grease free. If you are using RTV (I do on every gasket), you can't just slap the RTV on and mount it up. You should allow some time (10-15 minutes) for the RTV to be exposed to air and start to get tacky. You should not over torque the fasteners as it will split the gasket.

DAMHIK :D.

rover67
01-31-2011, 08:04 PM
Something like a Toyota head gasket might be a good example like Matt said. Maybe the Marlin seals were a bad example, but you get the point.

And yes, If I were building a super high horsepower race motor an after market block might be the only choice. That's a great example of when the after market rocks... just like the pistons, and rods, and other part you mentioned. Parts where i'd stick to Dealer purchased OEM are specific to what I know in particular. A good example that comes to mind are Porsche timing chains or the timing chain sliders. I don't know if I'd want to experiment there. The sealant for the case halves on the other hand is another animal all together. There are lots of after market options there that don't match what the factory used that work great. FWIW I also stuck to "OEM" seals on those motors for stuff like the rear main seal we are talking about. I didn't get them from the dealer, but I knew they were OEM. O-Rings were another story, Viton aftermarket O-rings were the way to go.

Again, I don't know much about Toyota stuff, still learning... so I can't speak to when I'd stick with OEM or where I'd go to the dealer for what I know is OEM or go aftermarket, but until I learn differently or until it is a lot cheaper to go another rout I'll stick with the stuff I know is OEM. But that's just me.

60wag
01-31-2011, 08:48 PM
Having worked for one of the most respected gasket manufacturers in the US (back in the 80's), I would strongly support the use of Toyota sealing products. :)

nakman
01-31-2011, 09:39 PM
The debate on Marlin vs OEM seals is 50/50 at the moment. .

That's why I run one of each! :hill: :bolt:

Air Randy
01-31-2011, 10:32 PM
From the FelPro web site:

The Fel-Pro brand by Federal-Mogul is a leader in multi-layer steel (MLS) head gasket design, the current leading-edge technology in sealing today’s lightweight engine castings with a long-term, leakproof seal called PermaTorqueMLS®.

Because we’re a global producer of engine and sealing products, our aftermarket customers benefit from Federal-Mogul’s proven expertise in engineering and manufacturing OEM components and subsystems for the world’s major automotive manufacturers. Our extensive field experience gives us insights into the expected changes in engine components over time. We design our aftermarket sealing parts to meet your specific needs in the replacement environment.

DaveInDenver
01-31-2011, 10:57 PM
Which OEM use Fel-Pro? I've heard people say that before and wondered which cars used them from the factory. I've also heard mention of Federal Mogul and McCord/Clevite as OE suppliers. We know that Delco, Koyo and Aisin are OE suppliers. Personally, I stopped buying Toyota boxed bearings a long time ago and go to NAPA. Like Marco mentions, a Koyo is a Koyo is a Koyo. That was originally on the recommendation of my Toyota parts guy, too.