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SteveH
03-01-2011, 09:45 AM
Is there any practical way to mount an 8274 on a stock FJ40 front bumper without welding a winch mount to the bumper itself? I saw the freebie FJ40/8274 bumper here a few weeks ago - and that's one way to do it - albeit with welding. Here's why I ask:

I'm finishing a stock resto on a 1980 FJ40 and really want to use a stock bumper. But, the truck came with a rockin' 8274 that needs a home. I don't want to buy a brand new front OEM bumper and then hack it up for the winch. Thoughts? I can see where you would have to (at least) bolt a winch plate to the bumper to pick up some strength from the bumper. (You can't have an 8274 pulling hard and have it just resting on the bumper, I think).

The truck came with what I think is an older Warn winch bumper - just a chunk of u-channel with a plate on it. Not homemade, but fairly non-OEM looking. I could shorten it a bit and powdercoat it, but I'd really like to head more toward stock. Pix attached. Am I nuts - should I just use this bumper and not be such a stock/OEM weenie?

subzali
03-01-2011, 10:13 AM
I would try for something like this: no idea what's involved though...
http://forum.ih8mud.com/winching-recovery/383132-what-makes-warn-8274-best.html#post5595012

Air Randy
03-01-2011, 11:22 AM
Is there any practical way to mount an 8274 on a stock FJ40 front bumper without welding a winch mount to the bumper itself? I saw the freebie FJ40/8274 bumper here a few weeks ago - and that's one way to do it - albeit with welding. Am I nuts - should I just use this bumper and not be such a stock/OEM weenie?

Well, the 8274 never came as a factory/OEM option on the 40 so unless you install a factory PTO style winch you have violated the sanctity of "OEM" anyways. :D

You can mount the 8274 on top of a winch plate that is bolted to the frame rails. Done properly it is plenty strong and no welding is required. By mounting it up higher the fairlead is on a backing plate and above the bumper so you don't have to cut a hole in the OEM bumper. It takes a little more time, effort and material to build this type of mount.

The downside to this configuration is it sits up quite a bit higher and blocks more of the air flow through the radiator, causing the engine to possibly run a little warmer.

You could also install a receiver type hitch receptacle under the front bumper and mount the winch on a removeable cradle that plugs into it. This way it's only on the front when it's beused. But then you have to carry the thing around inside the vehicle with you and 8274's are pretty heavy to be moving around in that fashion.

Rezarf
03-01-2011, 12:20 PM
If you take that bumper above and fiddle with the ends with some pie cuts and rewelding it back together. You'd get a nice winch mount and you could "fake" the rounded ends of the stock bumper.

I have a bumper like the one above with an 8274 mount if you'd like it, the bumper has been cut to the width of the frame horns. It could be an easy place to start.

Drew

SteveH
03-01-2011, 01:12 PM
Thanks - great suggestions that have given me some other ideas, too.

I mounted a PTO winch on my '78 FJ40 (also not correct for that year ;-) - but Toyota, at least). I think this 8274 would out-pull it before the PTO broke shear pins (of which I have broken many). I used to wonder why everyone was so hot on 8274s - now I know!

I had thought of using a receiver hitch piece and making a removable winch - but as you said, the 8274 is a heavy dog for that. With synthetic cable, it would be more manageable. Still, I have some old hitches and should look into this. Are there quick-disconnects that can handle full battery current - 500+ amps?

I wonder if you could mount the 8274 such that the fairlead came out just *below* the OEM bumper and the winch sat inside the frame rails - that way, you'd get a lower profile (less air blockage) and really wouldn't lose appreciable ground clearance (approach angle). I'll have to dummy that up by putting the winch on a milk crate and experimenting. You could build the mount, install the winch, and just install the OEM bumper in front of the winch plate. What I don't know offhand is if the 8274 is too fat or wide to live in a low place between the frame rails and behind the bumper.

Drew - thanks for the offer - I'll likely cut mine up if I go the route of salvaging the winch plate.

Steve

subzali
03-01-2011, 01:45 PM
There's a hot discussion about PTO vs. 8274 in the Diesel Tech section on MUD...
http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/461175-winch-hj.html

Since I don't have a better picture, see the first couple pics in this thread: it would seem there is plenty of room to fit it however you could get it to work - I have never seen an 8274 mounted as low as you're talking before though...
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/462438-arb-bull-bar-saginaw-power-steering-winch.html

EDIT again: if you see where my fairlead is mounted in the pic below, you'll see that you're losing a lot of ground clearance with the fairlead if you try to go under the front bumper...
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0059.jpg

SteveH
03-01-2011, 02:14 PM
Matt - great photo - thanks. Is that a Massey Ferguson tractor at the right edge of the photo?

I'm thinking that my hawse-type fairlead is only 2" high/tall, and if it were snugged up against the bottom of the OEM bumper, you wouldn't lose too much clearance. I agree that a roller fairlead is quite a bit taller and would hang down pretty far.

subzali
03-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Yep, my great-grandfather's 1957 MF High 40. Passed down to my grandfather, passed down to my dad, hopefully someday passed down to me :D We have a bunch of implements for it too :D The one we don't have that would be cool would be a bucket attachment for the front. My dad started doing some repainting to bring it back to stock color (yellow, it's now red), but it needs a lot of work. Maybe some day if I get it passed to me I could tear it down and rebuild it.

Anyway, a hawse fairlead would probably help a lot; here's some more pics of Zepp's 8274 installation that might help with some visuals:
http://rzeppa.org/tech/fbumper.htm

wesintl
03-01-2011, 03:00 PM
There were 8274's that were port installed and dealer installed. The 8274 I got from coax I think was port installed. It has japanese stickers as a warning label. There were also Toyota upright winches that were warn knockoffs. I think in '79 if you got a winch there is a reinforced stock bumper. I'll see if I can find the info.

I like that bumper though. I would trim it down a touch. You can mount it above. While above the bumper does block it more I haven't read where anyone runs hot because of that with a stock engine.

Here is infor on the reinforced bumper and a raised 8274. I wouldn't mount it below the bumper.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/238086-8274-stock-bumper.html

coax
03-01-2011, 03:16 PM
T The 8274 I got from coax I think was port installed. It has japanese stickers as a warning label.

No kidding, I never even noticed that. Cool.



Here's how it was mounted up on the 55, which might be similar to the 40, fwiw. I cut off the wings of the bumper as they were damaged, so use a bit of imagination there :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_RHGIeuamB_E/SNb6LxaFITI/AAAAAAAAAIU/1NoKhmW4mC8/s1024/DSCF1956.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_RHGIeuamB_E/SNb6RLaBcpI/AAAAAAAAAKA/dd_umNXD1ZE/s800/DSCF1959.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_RHGIeuamB_E/SNb6TPMWXpI/AAAAAAAAAI0/pltFjzvrCwk/s800/DSCF1960.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_RHGIeuamB_E/SIDd4rrXzII/AAAAAAAAABs/63TICwz0Kr4/s800/DSCF1453.JPG

Air Randy
03-01-2011, 04:13 PM
While above the bumper does block it more I haven't read where anyone runs hot because of that with a stock engine.

I wouldn't mount it below the bumper.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/238086-8274-stock-bumper.html

Read Zepp's link that Subzali posted, he re-mounted his 8274 with the fairleads in the bumper because he was over heating. There are numerous other instances on MUD where folks had the same issue.

Whether you go hawse or fairlead I would not mount it under the bumper. Anything that hangs down lower than your spring shackles will just be a rock magnet. Both of my 8274's are through the bumper. If you don't want to do that then try the above the bumper mount. If it does cause over heating you can always move it back down.

SteveH
03-01-2011, 08:13 PM
Off topic - here's my gas 'High Altitude' 1958 MF50 - I did a light resto a few years ago. It has high compression pistons good for 8.4:1, instead of 6.x:1

I found it rotting in a neighbor's yard. The engine had been rebuilt in 1976 and it runs very well.

Air Randy
03-01-2011, 09:34 PM
And, if you're trying to build something that doesn't require welding because you don't have a welder, don't let that stop. Lots of folks have welders that are willing to help, myself included.

SteveH
03-01-2011, 10:08 PM
Randy - thanks for the offer - I'm welder equipped and have just welded shut approximately 1 billion small rust holes in this 1980 FJ. I have a perverse affection for reversible mods, so I'd rather not hack up a clean or new OEM bumper. I'm hatching a plan, however, that may get me what I need.

subzali
03-01-2011, 11:08 PM
Steve, nice MF! That's exactly the front bucket I'm talking about that I think it would be cool to have! And I appreciate your comment on reversible mods, I find myself in the same line of thinking often...

Good luck and let us know what you come up with! :thumb:

Rzeppa
03-02-2011, 12:32 AM
The downside to this configuration is it sits up quite a bit higher and blocks more of the air flow through the radiator, causing the engine to possibly run a little warmer.

Actually it will make the motor overheat. A *little* warmer is an understatement for this application.

Never, ever mount an 8274 on an across the frame rails plate on a 40. It will overheat on the way up Vail pass when you are thinking all you want to do is get home from Moab. It will overheat in Grand Junction on the way to Moab. It will not like the highway, but will do just fine rock crawling at 600 RPM.

Even with (an almost) brand new radiator, good water pump and good old fashioned orange metal fan, not enough air flow for the highway.

Did I say not to mention how I know this?

Let's just say that fabbing a new bumper to mount the 8274 where it doesn't block air flow and puts the rope in the middle of the bumper where it is strongest anyway was at the top of the list of post Moab-04's priority list.

:thumb:

7 years later and no problems any more.