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View Full Version : Next time you think about posting mud pix...


Red_Chili
03-09-2011, 07:18 AM
See how others perceive them... and how they use them against us.

http://wilderness.org/content/our-victory-idaho-salmon-challis-national-forest

These pix were taken by an activist (note how the wheel rut pic was taken at an angle to accentuate the damage) but many of the 4x4 pix posted in forums end up used like this.

Might make you think twice about 1) driving through muddy or soft riparian areas, and 2) having a talk with those who don't think twice.

I hope they are serious about "...The Wilderness Society and our partners will continue to work with the Forest Service to develop a plan that protects special places while providing recreational opportunities for all." The track record suggests that the recreational opportunities for motorized recreation will not be plentiful.

That is all...

DaveInDenver
03-09-2011, 08:03 AM
You know, honestly, I find that I don't disagree with the other viewpoint more and more. When motorized use is restricted to pavement and graded roads it won't happen because not enough people joined Blue Ribbon but as culmination of thousands of bad decisions.

subzali
03-09-2011, 08:37 AM
Just sayin', but I've seen a lot of hiking trails that look about like that second pic in that article...

DaveInDenver
03-09-2011, 08:40 AM
Just sayin', but I've seen a lot of hiking trails that look about like that second pic in that article...
True, all sorta muddy trails get trashed via many modes by people and horses. Introducing motors just seems to increase the jackass ratio.

subzali
03-09-2011, 08:55 AM
Wouldn't argue with that.

simps80
03-09-2011, 09:38 AM
My favorite quote from the above link:

"ORV damage
Submitted by Bob B on Wed, 03/09/2011 - 08:06.
Those who would use their ORV's really do not understand the damage that they are doing to wilderness areas. We have similar problems in New Mexico in the Gila Wilderness area. My personal opinion is that they do not have the educational experience that would provide them the tools to make good decisions with regard to this issue. "


All I can say to that is : lol, rotf, lmao, and other-responses-that-could-be-construed-as-uneducated.

Red_Chili
03-09-2011, 11:26 AM
My favorite quote from the above link:

"ORV damage
Submitted by Bob B on Wed, 03/09/2011 - 08:06.
Those who would use their ORV's really do not understand the damage that they are doing to wilderness areas. We have similar problems in New Mexico in the Gila Wilderness area. My personal opinion is that they do not have the educational experience that would provide them the tools to make good decisions with regard to this issue. "

The guy is referencing insufficient education for "ORV" users... and as an example cites "ORV" use in "Wilderness"?? I think maybe the guy needs some education himself, if he believes his local OHV areas are "wilderness". Uh... when did they open Wilderness to motorized/mechanized use again???

Red_Chili
03-09-2011, 11:27 AM
True, all sorta muddy trails get trashed via many modes by people and horses. Introducing greater numbers of people no matter what the recreation form just seems to increase the jackass ratio.
Fixed it for ya.

DaveInDenver
03-09-2011, 11:46 AM
Fixed it for ya.
Maybe, but I'll stick with my original statement. One drunk mudder or a couple of ATVs can do in minutes the same damage as a 100 do-gooders in Asolos or 20 equine or MTB pricks might over a day. The level of responsibility has to meet the potential for damage. It also seems that the receptiveness to 'teachable moments' is all over the map. ATV users in particular seem to be the largest oblivious group and more often have no desire to listen.

I've said it before, there's being inclusive and then there's shooting ourselves in the foot. How long have you been at it? Does it honestly seem to you that OHV users are getting the idea through our thick skulls, that despite what should be that what is, is that if we don't shape up we'll be closed out? They are just using our own actions against us for goodness sakes.
True, all sorta muddy trails get trashed via many modes by people and horses. Introducing motors just seems to increase the jackass ratio.

Red_Chili
03-09-2011, 12:37 PM
I've said it before, there's being inclusive and then there's shooting ourselves in the foot. How long have you been at it? Does it honestly seem to you that OHV users are getting the idea through our thick skulls, that despite what should be that what is, is that if we don't shape up we'll be closed out? They are just using our own actions against us for goodness sakes.
Yes... I actually do perceive absorption through cranial matter. More now than 5 years ago, without a doubt!!

bh4rnnr
03-09-2011, 07:38 PM
Was just about to post a video of Matt Ralston crossing Leavenworth Creek during last years Clean Up day on Argentine Pass, then I clicked on your post....

CardinalFJ60
03-10-2011, 03:48 PM
so...when "should" you go through the mud and when shouldn't you? I only ask because a couple years ago when I went up to Bill Moore Lake, the book or article I read about that trail noted the big mud puddle near the end and that you should go through it...not around. What's the rule of thumb?

Red_Chili
03-10-2011, 08:12 PM
Your example points out the confusion well.

The guiding ethic with BML was avoiding widening the trail.

In other situations I've been known to turn around rather than drive through soft conditions. Or not. Depending.

Fact of the matter is, we have an impact. We need to make sure between TreadLightly and trail maintenance commitments that the impact is minimized and sustainable.