PDA

View Full Version : 2F-E or TBI conversion on my 2F anyone done this?


rckhound
04-26-2011, 08:27 PM
I currently am running the original 2f in my 87 fj60 desmoged at 207,000 and and believe I have have a burnt exhaust valve or some other head issue. I have begun to explore different options and am thinking of doing a 3fe head on my 2f bottom or doing a TBI conversion. I love driving this truck and like taking it on road trips. Anyone done this on thier truck that could help out or have donor parts? I am not made of money so trying to budget the best I can. Any help is good help.
Steve

RLMS
04-26-2011, 10:32 PM
2f Tbi. if you have motor work to do, throw in a rv cam, and a HEI Dizzy. the computer will control the advance timing. Plus the correct chip in the GM computer makes this set up, IMHO a better performer than the emission controled 3F stuff.

subzali
04-27-2011, 08:16 AM
I've always liked the idea of multi-port injection over TBI. But I've driven neither.

First choice: get the head rebuilt and throw it back together and keep on trucking.

Second choice: find an FJ62 someone's parting out, get all your miscellaneous parts together, and read these threads:
Pappy 2FE build/ROTW (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/325329-rotw-pappys-1969-fj40.html)
mmw68 3FE swap (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/204043-3fe-fj40-rtcustoms-build.html)
tucker74 3FE swap (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/360924-3fe-adventure.html)
RockDoc 2FE build (http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/277349-help-me-plan-2fe.html)
CruisinFJ60 2FE swap (http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/230794-2f-e-swap-fiona.html)
BamaBleach 3FE build (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/304263-bamableachs-fj40-buildup-3.html)
2FE threads (http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/171806-2f-3fe-head-injection-real-world-stories-please.html)

Oh, and prepare to have fun :D

MDH33
04-27-2011, 08:34 AM
First choice: get the head rebuilt and throw it back together and keep on trucking.



This would be my vote. I don't know if any of the other options would really make a that much of a difference with performance to justify the time/expense/grief.

You could use the money saved to buy some more comfortable seats to enjoy the ride in the slow lane. ;)

nakman
04-27-2011, 08:52 AM
We used to have a club member here, Scott Brown, who put fuel injection on a 2F. He robbed the parts from a Chevy Astro van at a junkjard.. I'm not sure what the total effort was though as there wasn't much that was beyond his capabilities. But he told me he was getting 17mpg in the city on 35's when all was said and done, plus crawling up crazy inclines without stalling.

Still, if it were me I'd probably just get the stock 2F back in shape and put that effort elsewhere.. I dunno.


may as well put up a picture :D

Rzeppa
04-27-2011, 09:14 AM
The two most common ways to do it are either a 3FE head, dizzy, manifold and ECU, or a GM 4.3 TBI with a custom adapter and either the 4.3 ECU & harness or a megasquirt. With the GM route you'll have to weld a bung on your exhaust for the O2 sensor and add a MAP to your intake.

No doubt, just having your carbed head repaired will be the quickest and least expensive short term fix. But I have always had FI in the back of my mind for my '71, prolly with an F engine instead of a 2F.

SteveH
04-27-2011, 01:47 PM
An employee of Liberty Toyota here in the Springs put a 3FE head on a 1F in his '71 FJ55. Apparently, the piston/combustion chamber conditions are correct on that setup.

I would be concerned that you get the right head/piston/chamber volume situation, as not all head can be bolted onto all 'F' type blocks.

Air Randy
04-27-2011, 02:14 PM
If the motor has 207K miles with no rebuild, you may want to consider rebuilding the bottom end too versus just doing the head. Many times when you do valves/guides/seals on your head and bolt it on to a high mileage bottom end, you lose the piston rings pretty quickly. They're already seriously worn but work OK because the valves aren't perfect either. With the valves sealed up compression increases and the old rings cant handle it.

If you've already got the head off, it only takes another half day to drop the pan, pop the pistons outs, hone the cylinders, then re-install with new rings and rod bearings. This isn't as good a rebuild as a full engine out rebuild but it will put a lot of life back in the motor.

I think if you go 4.3 TBI on a properly rebuilt 2F you will get a little more zip and a cleaner/smoother running motor. Bad news is, if something craps out it's a lot more difficult to trouble shoot and fix on the trail. And keep in mind it is still a 2F so you wont be setting any speed records even with TBI. With a properly rebuilt motor, rebuilt carb and a properly working distributor you should be good for another 200K or so miles.

Rzeppa
04-27-2011, 09:25 PM
An employee of Liberty Toyota here in the Springs put a 3FE head on a 1F in his '71 FJ55. Apparently, the piston/combustion chamber conditions are correct on that setup.

I would be concerned that you get the right head/piston/chamber volume situation, as not all head can be bolted onto all 'F' type blocks.

No doubt, you can't interchange combustion chambers made for domed versus flat topped pistons. The 3FE head will work with the F Block by all accounts as it is made for flat topped pistons.

Rzeppa
04-27-2011, 09:38 PM
If the motor has 207K miles with no rebuild, you may want to consider rebuilding the bottom end too versus just doing the head. Many times when you do valves/guides/seals on your head and bolt it on to a high mileage bottom end, you lose the piston rings pretty quickly. They're already seriously worn but work OK because the valves aren't perfect either. With the valves sealed up compression increases and the old rings cant handle it.

If you've already got the head off, it only takes another half day to drop the pan, pop the pistons outs, hone the cylinders, then re-install with new rings and rod bearings. This isn't as good a rebuild as a full engine out rebuild but it will put a lot of life back in the motor.

I think if you go 4.3 TBI on a properly rebuilt 2F you will get a little more zip and a cleaner/smoother running motor. Bad news is, if something craps out it's a lot more difficult to trouble shoot and fix on the trail. And keep in mind it is still a 2F so you wont be setting any speed records even with TBI. With a properly rebuilt motor, rebuilt carb and a properly working distributor you should be good for another 200K or so miles.

Word. As in good words of advice and I would give that advice a X2!

Main thing about FI is almost same response at a wide range of engine and operating temperatures and elevations. The MAP compensates for elevation and the O2 sensor (and hopefully coolant sensor too) tells the ECU how much to enrich the mixture, and the ECU figures out how much to advance the spark timing for all of the above conditions. It is just a more elegant solution to the mixture thing than can be accomplished with carbs. And this is coming from a really, really old-school cruiser guy.

Rzeppa
04-27-2011, 09:43 PM
Here is another couple of shots of Scott Brown's FI'd 40:

rckhound
05-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Wow..thanks for all the response. Does anyone have good recomendations for getting my head machined and what do I really need to do to the lower end? Can I do the work with the motor still in the truck besides pulling the head and such? Ayone recomend a good rebuild kit? Also I have never gotten that far into a rebuild..would someone that is experienced like to help out. I currenlty am running a jim c carb dizzy and desmog kit with maf ceramic headers. Like the 2f and would just like to keep this thing on the road. I guess I just don't know everything about what I should and should not have to replace. Thanks for all the help.

Toyoland66
05-09-2011, 02:52 PM
I have an 84 2F I need to get rid of if you want a builder engine.

rckhound
05-11-2011, 09:23 PM
Still looking for info. I think I will be using my own engine for the rebuild but what do I need to buy new and what do I need to have machined in my lower end if I get the top end all cleaned up and machined?

Toyoland66
05-12-2011, 08:55 AM
At a minimum new bearings, rings, and gaskets. Pistons if you need to have the cylinders bored over. I would have your existing cam and lifters reground by delta. There are some good tricks for the head, using chevy valves and springs. PM me your email address, I have a spreadsheet with some info and links which are 2FE specific but a lot of the info applies to a general rebuild.

subzali
05-12-2011, 11:30 AM
I'd like some info on the 2FE, I'll send you a pm.

Thanks