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Rzeppa
05-20-2011, 06:35 PM
So our new-to-us FJ60 failed emissions. Numbers were 5.39 out of 3.50 for HC and 98.7 out of 30.0 for CO. NOx passed.

This is the rig that was for sale here on the RS board that had the MAF engine that had to be rebuilt not long after the MAF long block was installed. Here is the original post: http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=15173

We gotta get her to pass to get plates. Some facts:

163k miles, 5k since motor rebuild
3k since carb rebuild, new cats, new emissions computer, vacuum line replacement

She runs great. Seller advises that Joe Calleja had put in a smaller jet (main primary) which helped get her to pass a little over a year ago. He subsequently put the old one back in saying she ran better with the larger jet. I haven’t put the smaller one back in yet. And I don’t want to if I don’t have to – 60s are not easy to do stuff under the hood – way too much stuff under there!

The first test was “just in case” she might pass as-is. I didn’t put any heet into the gas or do anything, just had lovely Linda take her down and get her tested. Since then, I have changed out the air filter element and inspected the plugs; they are pretty white. As a sanity check I did a good visual on all the emissions components and found a couple of vacuum lines connected to each other up by the thermostat.

Wanting to connect them properly I found the BVSV open, and am 99% sure that 2 of these lines are supposed to go to it. I have a Haynes, and a factory emissions manual for 1976 model year which isn’t very helpful as by 1987 a lot of stuff got a lot more complicated. As far as I can tell the BVSV is for the spark control system, and opens when the coolant gets above 111F. This delays the ignition timing if the throttle position is above the advancer port when the engine is hot.

The thing in the front is an aftermarket temperature sender. Was there supposed to be another BVSV there???

Here is an image of the unconnected BVSV:

Rzeppa
05-20-2011, 06:39 PM
So I am trying to figure out where to connect these 4 vacuum hoses. Clearly 2 of them go to this BVSV. I have some extra FJ60 emissions parts lying around and took the spare vacuum spaghetti doohicky (tech term) and laid it on top to take a picture so you can all see the 4 ends I am talking about. If you look at the 4 ends in the middle of the picture of the spare, I am pretty sure the upper 2 are the ones that are supposed to connect to the BVSV, but if somebody who has a stock 60 could take a peek and verify I'd sure appreciate it.

Rzeppa
05-20-2011, 06:43 PM
So now the question is, where are the lower two supposed to go. Again, on this rig they are simply connected to each other. But I can not find where?!?!?

Because of the numbers, I am wondering if the air injection system is working properly. All the stuff is there, but I don't know if it is actually injecting air into the exhaust when it is supposed to, or if at all.

I did a scan of the manual, and if you look where I pointed the arrow, it looks like there are supposed to be 2 vacuum lines that go somewhere in the vicinity of my mystery lines, but I can not tell what in the heck they are supposed to connect to. Can anyone help me out with this?

Rzeppa
05-20-2011, 06:47 PM
Does anyone know the easiest way to tell if the AI system is working when it is supposed to?

Final factoid, I checked the timing this evening and it was set at 17. I know our F series engines like plenty of static advance, but also know they get better smog numbers when set at factory numbers, so I set it back to 7.

I do plan on putting a couple of bottles of Heet in before the retest, maybe even a couple gallons of E85 like Steve Helmreich was talking about in the 80 series emissions thread.

60wag
05-20-2011, 07:05 PM
I don't remember the exact hose connections well anymore so I'm not much help there. One thing I did learn though after numerous test failures was that the output of the air pump is usually weak. A rebuilt pump contains new bearings but has the same worn out vanes in it. It might be worth checking the inside of you pump to see what's in it. I got a rebuilt once that had 2 of the 3 vanes in it. Setting the idle as high as allowed for the test might up the pump output enough to make a difference. Also check the function of the two check valves where the air is injected into the exhaust stream. A failed check valve will let hot exhaust back up to the bypass valves and can cook the diaphrams. I'm a strong proponent of getting everything working properly but if the bypass valve has failed, finding a good one could be expensive. Altering the plumbing to assure that all of the air pump output is fed into the exhaust all the time might bring down the CO and HC numbers. The chances of overheating the cat with a weak air pump I think are slim.

BreckBJ44
05-20-2011, 10:53 PM
There are two temperature switched valves in the area where you are pointing. Therefore the four attachments on the brass spaghetti. IIRC, these open at two different temperatures and allow for smog operation when the truck is warm and hot. I'd try bypassing the actual value and see what that does. I assume it would then act as always open. In your current case you may be leaving a vacuum switched value closed (as you are sucking atmosphere instead of passing that vacuum on to the intended part) that turns on some of the smog equipment further down the chain.

Problem with a worn 2F from that era is the smog barely works when connected correctly. I actually had a 60 run cleaner desmogged and tuned than with 1987 emissions in operation in the rig. Good luck.

K

nattybumppo
05-21-2011, 12:54 AM
Jeff, my 60 is a 4/87 build and all emissions stuff is stock and intact as far as I know. Next time you are in the city you are welcome to take a look underhood. Sash

powderpig
05-21-2011, 06:21 AM
One of the valve works the EGR system, I do not remember what the other one does. Later this morning after a graduation ceremony I will be back home and see if I can take a picture of a vacuum diagram I have and post it if I can, if not I will send it to you in a e-mail Jeff.
It looks like you are running rich and need to subtract fuel. So I can see the statement of having the jets changed out for the emissions is a valid statement. So you may need to do that to get that richness out of the equation.

CardinalFJ60
05-21-2011, 07:29 AM
I just took a look at my hookup (all stock emissions setup). If I'm looking at everything correctly...

you'll notice the hardlines in that picture are on two 'planes' - two are nearer the firewall the other two nearer the front of the vehicle. the Vac lines from the two bvsv valves (blue/red) are connected in a direct relationship to the location of the hardlines.

That is, for example, from the blue valve connect to the frontmost hardlines left to left, right to right. then...on the red one (lower), same idea. Blue BVSV is part of the EGR system and if I can figure out my scanner I'll post up the page from the emissions manual or just take a picture.

So...the answer is the lower bvsv valve thingie (red one) should be hooked to the lower/rearmost hardlines Left to left/right to right.

I hope that makes sense and.... Robbie...can you confirm/deny?

rover67
05-21-2011, 09:43 AM
Jeff, Maybe this will help.

I also have a copy of the 2F emissions manual if you need it. It is a big file, but if you help me do an FTP thing I can get it to you...

rover67
05-21-2011, 09:48 AM
BTW the Pink and Violet designations for the BVSV's is correct on the diagram. The discussion on mud is that the colors fade to what they look like now on your truck...

Rzeppa
05-21-2011, 10:00 AM
I'd try bypassing the actual value and see what that does.

As I wrote, they already are bypassed! The lines are connected in such a way as to act as if the BVSV is already open. And you indirectly answered my other question "Where do these other two lines go?". I would guess that the aftermarket temperature sender on the top half of the thermostat housing is occupying a place where a second BVSV should go.

Rzeppa
05-21-2011, 10:03 AM
One of the valve works the EGR system, I do not remember what the other one does. Later this morning after a graduation ceremony I will be back home and see if I can take a picture of a vacuum diagram I have and post it if I can, if not I will send it to you in a e-mail Jeff.
It looks like you are running rich and need to subtract fuel. So I can see the statement of having the jets changed out for the emissions is a valid statement. So you may need to do that to get that richness out of the equation.

Thanks Robbie. I think from what Breck44 wrote that there is supposed to be a second BVSV where that aftermarket temperature sender is above and forward of the first (pink) one. The manual says one of them is for spark control. The manual also shows 2 lines going to that vicinity for the AI system, but does not say where they go.

As far as rich/lean, the plugs were VERY white. Normally I associate that with a lean mixture.

Rzeppa
05-21-2011, 10:05 AM
I just took a look at my hookup (all stock emissions setup). If I'm looking at everything correctly...

you'll notice the hardlines in that picture are on two 'planes' - two are nearer the firewall the other two nearer the front of the vehicle. the Vac lines from the two bvsv valves (blue/red) are connected in a direct relationship to the location of the hardlines.

That is, for example, from the blue valve connect to the frontmost hardlines left to left, right to right. then...on the red one (lower), same idea. Blue BVSV is part of the EGR system and if I can figure out my scanner I'll post up the page from the emissions manual or just take a picture.

So...the answer is the lower bvsv valve thingie (red one) should be hooked to the lower/rearmost hardlines Left to left/right to right.

I hope that makes sense and.... Robbie...can you confirm/deny?

Yes, the way they are connected in pairs is front/top and then rear/bottom. I only have the pink BVSV at the bottom rear, and do not have a blue one. I am pretty sure the aftermarket temperature sender is occupying the spot where another BVSV is supposed to go.

Rzeppa
05-21-2011, 10:12 AM
BTW the Pink and Violet designations for the BVSV's is correct on the diagram. The discussion on mud is that the colors fade to what they look like now on your truck...

Yep, no violet BVSV. I *think* you guys have helped solve my mystery.

Fortunately, the stock temp gauge works just fine and there is no good reason to keep that aftermarket gauge in there. As I wrote (and you can see from the diagram I posted at the beginning of this thread), there are 2 lines which go to the vicinity of the thermostat housing which are part of the AI system, and it is the operation of the AI system that I am particularly concerned about. I just want to make sure it is blowing clean air into the exhaust stream when it is supposed to!

Rzeppa
05-21-2011, 10:26 AM
I don't remember the exact hose connections well anymore so I'm not much help there. One thing I did learn though after numerous test failures was that the output of the air pump is usually weak. A rebuilt pump contains new bearings but has the same worn out vanes in it. It might be worth checking the inside of you pump to see what's in it. I got a rebuilt once that had 2 of the 3 vanes in it. Setting the idle as high as allowed for the test might up the pump output enough to make a difference. Also check the function of the two check valves where the air is injected into the exhaust stream. A failed check valve will let hot exhaust back up to the bypass valves and can cook the diaphrams. I'm a strong proponent of getting everything working properly but if the bypass valve has failed, finding a good one could be expensive. Altering the plumbing to assure that all of the air pump output is fed into the exhaust all the time might bring down the CO and HC numbers. The chances of overheating the cat with a weak air pump I think are slim.

Thanks Bruce!

I have no stomach for pulling the pump at this point in time, and I gave my spare to my daughter for her 60. But I have no indication one way or the other that there is anything wrong with the pump itself, and there is every possibility that it is the original OEM pump and not a reman. As long as the PS pump doesn't leak onto them they usually last a good long time. But you are right about the ABV diaphragm, Joe Calleja told me those diaphragms are fairly brittle and can dry out and crack and prevent flow into the rail, basically bypassing all the time.

I do have a spare ABV, ACV, VSV(1) and VSV(2), relief valve, check valves, VTVs, and possibly even BVSVs. I'll take a look - if I do have spare BVSVs, since they are loose I can even test them for proper operation before mounting them and reconnecting the vacuum lines.

And the thought did occur to me to do as you suggested, just hook the output of the pump directly to the check valve at the rail inlet and let 'er rip 100% of the time just to get through the test. I did that on my '76 FJ40 (bypassed the ABV) and it worked just fine.

Rzeppa
05-21-2011, 04:07 PM
OK, I located my spare BVSVs, both still installed in a thermostat housing that used to be on an FJ60 2F. I pulled them and tested them using the procedure in the manual. I used a meat thermometer (close enough I reckon) and the violet one switched pretty close to the 111F the manual calls for. My Haynes does not show a switching temp for the pink one. Mine actually switches a little below ambient, around 55-60F; I had to put some ice in to get it down to where it would switch. Does anyone have a manual that show the proper switching temp for the pink BVSV?

Rzeppa
05-22-2011, 01:13 PM
Does anyone know the proper switching temperature for the pink BVSV?

rover67
05-22-2011, 01:37 PM
I can tell you tomorrow... My 2F emissions manual is at work packed away in a box....

They moved us to a new area this weekend.

rover67
05-22-2011, 01:40 PM
found one online:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/324285-rough-idle-dies-stops-carb-issues.html#post4879573

Looks like maybe the one you are looking to test if part of the choke opener system. Pg 3-42 of the PDF says closed below 41 deg F and open above 66f

MDH33
05-22-2011, 04:35 PM
Jeff, If you want, I can bring my 60 over and you can do a side by side comparison for the vacuum connections since mine is totally stock. Sometimes this is easier than the diagrams. :thumb:

Rzeppa
05-22-2011, 05:50 PM
found one online:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/324285-rough-idle-dies-stops-carb-issues.html#post4879573

Looks like maybe the one you are looking to test if part of the choke opener system. Pg 3-42 of the PDF says closed below 41 deg F and open above 66f

Thanks Marco, I found a different thread on mud that said 66. I did have to add ice to the water and drop it below ambient to get it to close. Seemed more like around 50-60, but the darn thing has a much slower thermal response than my thermometer.

Rzeppa
05-22-2011, 09:03 PM
So I put in the smaller jet. A 147 was in there, the one Joe Calleja had installed for the PO to pass emissions is a 138, which I re-installed. With all the smog junk in the way, doing practically anything under the hood of this 60 is a Royal PITA. I nearly lost the old jet taking it out but was able to get it. The clearance in front of the carb is only a couple of inches and you can't even get a normal screwdriver in there, and a stubby is too fat to fit in the hole, and a little one isn't stout enough. I used a screwdriver bit for a drill driver and a 1/4" box wrench to operate the bit.

Between setting the timing to factory 7 and rejetting, she officially idles like a$$. I drove her to Evergreen and back and she drives okay, but kept stalling at idle. I adjusted the idle screw up to keep her from stalling. I should probably enrich the idle adjustment screw, but since I plan on putting everything back after passing, why bother? Just to get to it requires taking a bunch of stuff off.

I have been thinking about those BVSVs not being connected. They really aren't going to make any difference to pass smog, since I will be testing at full up operating temp and the hoses are connected to each other that same as if both valves were open indicating full on operating temperature. They really only do anything below normal operating temperature. So I am going to go see about getting retested before I reconnect the BVSVs, then deal with them later, as they will only make a difference when the rig hasn't warmed up yet.

subzali
05-23-2011, 11:23 AM
You got it on the BVSVs Jeff. I don't think they're your problem either.

Sounds to me as well like your Air Injection System may have issues, going off what Robbie said about running rich. The Air Injection would effectively lean out the tailpipe. If your plugs are already white with the 147 jet I wouldn't run the 138 jet very long, but it may be just enough to pass smog.

Rzeppa
05-23-2011, 11:35 AM
You got it on the BVSVs Jeff. I don't think they're your problem either.

Sounds to me as well like your Air Injection System may have issues, going off what Robbie said about running rich. The Air Injection would effectively lean out the tailpipe. If your plugs are already white with the 147 jet I wouldn't run the 138 jet very long, but it may be just enough to pass smog.

No way is this rig running rich. The plugs were white even before I changed out the main jet. I can't wait to get that 147 back in there and re-advance the static timing. I drove her to work today and she's really running crappy on the primary side. I brought a screwdriver to adjust the idle speed if need be, she is having stall issues at idle. I also brought a 12mm wrench to reset the timing as soon as I get out of the Envirotest station!

SteveH
05-23-2011, 01:02 PM
The air pump on my '78 sounded and look great, but put out little air. I installed a reman and that one put out about 2x the air, and the CO dropped considerably on the e-test (years ago, in El Paso county). Before returning the core, I took it apart, and chunks were missing from the vanes. You should feel a moderate breeze out of your air pump outlet, not just a faint wind. I realize those are subjective terms. Maybe find another RS member with a good/new air pump and compare the idle or 2500 rpm output of the pumps?

GM engines (in the past) were smog generating beasts, and the standard solution at the time was a big air pump and a firey hot catalyst. I wouldn't underestimate the importance of that. I think your idea of routing the air pump directly to the rail without the valve is a fine one, too.

Rzeppa
05-23-2011, 05:49 PM
She passed!

CO improved by a factor of over 21 thousand - from 98.688 GPM to 0.0046 GPM.
HC Improved by a factor of almost 47 - from 5.3907 to 0.1133

NOx got slightly worse but still passed by a factor of almost 2.

Since the failing the first test here are the things I did:


Replaced air cleaner element
Set timing from 17 to factory 7
Changed primary main jet from 147 to 138
Added 4 12 oz. bottle of Heet to 8 gallons of gasoline


I think the jet and the timing were probably the most important. I doubt changing the air cleaner element did squat but it made me feel better. I don't think the Heet makes that much difference in that much gas, but who knows, maybe it does?

It runs like a$$ right now, and in fact I thought it was going to fail because it kept stalling out for the tester dude. But he kept at it and she passed.

:woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:

subzali
05-23-2011, 06:37 PM
Nice!

rover67
05-23-2011, 06:37 PM
Congrats man!!!

Jacket
05-23-2011, 09:00 PM
Nice work Jeff. Good info for the next guy too.

Rzeppa
05-23-2011, 09:07 PM
Nice work Jeff. Good info for the next guy too.

Thanks Matt! If you look through my web site articles, that is what it is all about. "Here's what I did and here's what happened". I have benefited so much from the Land Cruiser community over the years, I always strive to give back the experience, first hand, here's how it worked for me. Regurgitated stuff gets old and is hard to discern from first hand. IMHO it is always better when you can share what have you have learned first-hand!