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Rezarf
06-07-2011, 10:20 AM
I am going to attack the rust on the 40 this summer. My fenders are starting to rust at the typical spots, I have rust at the bottom rear of the rockers, and I have rot along the rear sill and at both rear corners of the cruiser. Drivers side floor is swiss-cheesed as well, as are the door bottoms... all four. Other than that I am SOLID ;) :hill:

For those of you who have BTDT, I am trying to decide which sections are easiest to ease into body work again. I am going to cut out the crud and weld in new steel. I was wondering what you would suggest for recoating the welded area's? I am thinking stripping the section several inches, cutting out the rot, fitting and welding in new steel, grinding smoothing, body filller to smooth, epoxy sealer, primer, top coat... does that sound about right? My only heistation is the time it may take to get around the whole truck and habving the primer exposed for a long time before a repaint.

I have used some of Sherwin Williams over the counter canned products in the past with good success, is there something else local that would better for the spray stuff?

Also, I am just running CO2 through my MIG and I am wondering if I ought to bite the bullet for the argon-co2 mix? I have heard it burns a little cleaner. Also what gauge wire should I play with for this thin sheet metal? .025"?

Thanks in advance, I am not going for showroom quality but I don't want a gobbled mess when I am done either.

subzali
06-07-2011, 10:31 AM
Start with the least visible panels/parts. Personally I would probably attack the driver's floorboard first.

And think about this - if you screw up the fenders too badly, they are still available from Toyota, so maybe you could move there next ;)

Jacket
06-07-2011, 10:35 AM
I dunno if I'm qualified to give advice, but I can say that if I could repair the rear sill with reasonable success, you'll have no trouble at all. I've got some of the same body issues as you, and I've got floor boards on my radar, although I think I'm going to try the patch panels from Pacol (or similar source) rather than trying to repair what I have.

AHorseThief
06-07-2011, 10:35 AM
Haven't started weldering on the 40 yet, so I can't help you with where to start, but as far as wire and gas my plan is to use .023 wire with 75/25 gas.

cbmontgo
06-07-2011, 01:36 PM
There is a product called Eastwood Rust Encapsulator that is easy to apply and would protect the exposed steel while you work on other areas. From what I remember, it is a lot thinner and easier to apply than POR-15.

SteveH
06-07-2011, 02:19 PM
I have spent the last two-ish years fixing the body on my 1980 FJ - using a lot of steel that I welded in, as well as a PACOL rear quarter panel. I used .030 wire and 75/25 and set the welder to a pretty high current and low feed. I was generally happy with how the welding went, but after fixing 40-odd rust holes, it's very tiring after a while. See photo of the rusty bits I cut out - notice the screwdriver in the pix for scale. The OEM quarter panel I removed is not in the photo.

Matt's advice is solid - start with floor pans and places that allow you to learn the finer welding points without having appearance be an issue.

RE: PACOL - the first two full rear quarter panels I ordered were literally unusable due to grossly inaccurate production tolerances - (the hard top could not be made to fit). PACOL sent me another set at no cost. The second fender (the one actually now welded to my truck) was better in one critical way, but horrid in others. After installing the pass. side, I just fixed my OEM driver's side fender, rather than risk learning how bad the other fender was.

I have 3 spare PACOL rear quarter panels ('79-83 era) in my garage, if anyone wants to see them. I did document all my issues and sent many annotated photos to PACOL showing them the problems.

I would buy only CCoT repair panels and simply try to fix as many holes and problems that you can using flat steel stock. Repair panels that fit perfectly would be really neat, but fiddling around with mine added months to my job and a high stress level.

I wish you the best in tackling this - if my bondo-bucket could be rehabbed, anyone's can.

Rezarf
06-07-2011, 10:41 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate it. Wow Steve, thats a lot of rust to kick out of that cruiser. Good on you bud!

Jacket
06-07-2011, 11:02 PM
Wow Steve

x2. That's a lot of bits.

SteveH
06-08-2011, 06:53 AM
Thanks - in some ways, that rust scrap photo makes it look worse than it really was. And in some ways, it *was* bad. My hat is still off to the east coast crowd who start with much worse. Here's the result as of 2 days ago's wash job:

subzali
06-08-2011, 09:24 AM
steve, what kind of front bumper is that?

SteveH
06-08-2011, 10:39 AM
I really have no idea. It was on the truck (along with an 8274) when I got it. It had a locking cylinder (over one of the winch bolts) that I cut off (to remove the winch). I had the bumper sandblasted and powdercoated, and plan to reinstall the winch.

I thought that Warn bumpers (from the 1980s) looked like this, but I can find no brand indication anywhere on it - but perhaps Warn didn't brand such items at that time. It's the exact same length as a toyota bumper and clearly was designed for an FJ40 and an 8274. It's pretty stout, but the winch plate is only attached with four 1" long welds. It survived some serious winching abuse that I gave it, so I think it will hold - it just looks wimpy.

DanS
06-08-2011, 10:59 AM
The advice here is pretty good.

I have a 5 gallon bucket of rusty metal that we cut off the 40, not including the quarters.

1) Get the Argon/CO2 mix.
2) ESAB sells wire that is called "EZ Grind" I haven't used it, but wish I had. The idea is that it is slightly more malleable, so that you can hammer the weld down a bit better, reducing the need for grinding (and counteracting the shrinkage of the metal), and is supposed to grind away easier, reducing heat build-up in the grinding phase. I will try it next time.
3) Epoxy primer can be nasty stuff. That said, I swear by the DP line of Epoxy Primers from PPG. It sprays so well, adheres like nobody's business, and makes even me look good. I'm using it as the final coat even on my axles/frame for the 45. I have a test piece that I shot with DP90LF (the black version of PPGs DP line) and then set outside in the dirt three years ago. Still looks good.
4) When they say "cut until you have good metal" can't be overstated. Pitted metal that doesn't have a hole in it yet, will burn through the instant you touch it with your welder.

Dan

Rzeppa
06-08-2011, 01:50 PM
Drew, you are no doubt already familiar with my resto (http://rzeppa.org/resto/cruiser1.htm) series, right? BTW, I have 2 more pages worth of images I have already uploaded but haven't tied in with written narrative yet. You can view these images using the file naming convention for page 31 and 32 as follows:

http://rzeppa.org/resto/p3101.jpg
http://rzeppa.org/resto/p3102.jpg
.
.
.
http://rzeppa.org/resto/p3117.jpg

and

http://rzeppa.org/resto/p3201.jpg
.
.
.
http://rzeppa.org/resto/p3229.jpg

http://rzeppa.org/resto/p2537.jpg

Anyway, I use .023 solid on sheet metal with 75/25. I have tried .030 flux core and it is really a mess.

I like Zero Rust (http://coolfj40.stores.yahoo.net/zerrusulrusc.html). I have tried POR and have tried ordinary primers (even the "good stuff" like Eastwood, etc.) and just love the way ZR goes on and stays on. It is also considered a sandable primer. As for final coats, you may already know that stock uses a single stage system, no clear coat! One of the advantages is that most Rocky Mountain pinstripes can be buffed out.

I have found that certain parts are best to buy pre-fabbed patch panels, and other stuff is pretty easy an inexpensive to make from sheet stock, like the picture above.

Rezarf
06-08-2011, 05:56 PM
Thanks guys, this is some great info. Jeff, you've been working on that cruiser for as long as I have had mine. It is coming along nicely too!

DanS, seems like you are talking from a been there done that ;)

Rzeppa
06-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Thanks guys, this is some great info. Jeff, you've been working on that cruiser for as long as I have had mine. It is coming along nicely too!

Heh. Well there was the HZJ75 that took a lot of my wrench time. Then there is Charlotte, my 71. She's got air conditioned cranckcase at the moment...'nuff said. Then there is Rita the red truck. She's taken a fair amount of my wrench time. My daughter's FJ60 has been a wrench time sink from time to time. And now there is Alice, our new-to-us FJ60.

Running Rising Sun and being on the Cruise Moab committee was a huge thing for a number of years, and then running TLCA was like a second full time job the last couple years.

At the end of the day, Olive's restoration gets pushed down the priority list, weekend in and weekend out. Did I mention that we remodeled our living room, dining room and kitchen this past year?

:eek:

PhatFJ
06-08-2011, 09:06 PM
Just finished cutting out my Sill Plate on my 1975. I used Jeff's writeup as a guide line, it has been going VERY well, I will post up more pics when complete. Here is a link to about 20 pics http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/briansci/Sill%20Plate%20repair/ here are just a few.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/briansci/Sill%20Plate%20repair/IMG_9540.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/briansci/Sill%20Plate%20repair/IMG_9567.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/briansci/Sill%20Plate%20repair/IMG_9588.jpg

PhatFJ
06-08-2011, 09:13 PM
To follow this up. I am using a Miller 211 with autoset, .30 wire and 75/25 argon and an Everlast Plasma cutter. Just take your time, and stitch the panels in place. I filled several dime size holes as well.. Have fun with it, the worst you can do is mess something up and have to do it again.. Do be careful with any undercoating and other close items that may flame up :eek: ALWAYS have a fire extinguisher handy!!

PhatFJ
06-08-2011, 09:28 PM
A few more pics I went out and took..

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/briansci/Sill%20Plate%20repair/IMG_9625.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/briansci/Sill%20Plate%20repair/IMG_9628.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/briansci/Sill%20Plate%20repair/IMG_9632.jpg

:thumb:

Rzeppa
06-08-2011, 09:40 PM
Looks like you used a hole saw to access the back of your 2x2?

PhatFJ
06-08-2011, 09:55 PM
Looks like you used a hole saw to access the back of your 2x2?

Yep,, It worked great :thumb: Thanks again Jeff for your write up's!! Without them, I don't know if I would have attempted the sill plate...

subzali
06-09-2011, 09:04 AM
DanS, seems like you are talking from a been there done that ;)

Check out his link in his signature for the '79 FJ40-BJ conversion!

Rzeppa
06-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Yep,, It worked great :thumb: Thanks again Jeff for your write up's!! Without them, I don't know if I would have attempted the sill plate...

YQW! If/when I do another one I will try the hole saw. It seems like that would be a lot faster than cutting the rectangular openings I did.

DanS
06-10-2011, 06:59 PM
Check out his link in his signature for the '79 FJ40-BJ conversion!

And "been there done that" implies past tense. Once the 40 is on the road (soon, oh so soon--stupid evil work) I'll be starting on the 45. Ain't no rust like central american rust (which is surely lurking under tons of bondo). Either that, or I'm getting a second job, and something tells me I might be in the rusty metal business if that happens either...

Last suggestion (J-Zepp reminded me of this one): get the thin wire (0.023/24) for bodywork. MUCH more forgiving than 0.030.

Dan