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subzali
07-12-2011, 06:59 PM
This is where I'll document my on-board air project. I was going to try and sneak it in with my power steering project, but my red truck pooped out as I was buttoning that one up, so this one had to be put on hold for a little while. Longer than I would have liked, but oh well.

This morning I tried to get air to fill my tires back up, since I didn't air back up after the Argentine Cleanup Run. At $0.75 for 3 minutes with a low cfm compressor at the gas station, I almost got my rear 2 tires filled up before I gave up and went to work. Went to Discount during lunch and got topped off, but this is pretty much the last straw. I'm sick of not having on-board air, especially since we still live in an apartment and don't really have room for an air compressor.

I don't like the small 12V compressors because they're noisy, don't have high CFM, don't have a great duty cycle, and the better ones are pretty expensive. And you have to store them someplace when you're not using them.

I don't like Yorks because the typical York mount makes you move the alternator down to where the smog pump bracket is. I don't like that idea that my alternator could be submerged in a water crossing while my air compressor, which is not a necessary accessory, is happily dry at the top of the engine bay. I also wanted to try something different that I had heard about from Red Fox and maybe a couple others.

Hence, the Sanden compressor. Found as an A/C compressor in Volvos and possibly other vehicles, it has a slightly lower CFM as compared to Yorks, is tubular in shape which saves space, and the only "drawback" is that you have to add oil because it's designed to be lubricated by refrigerant like an Aisin compressor. But there's a port on the top that allows you to do that, so it just becomes part of pm. Let's give this a try:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=24319&stc=1&d=1310515160
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=24318&stc=1&d=1310515160

First, here was a mockup of the setup while I was doing my power steering conversion:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0073.jpg
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0074.jpg

As you may be able to see, since I am not running a smog pump, I was thinking of using the smog pump bracket and tensioner as the foundation of my installation. This seems promising.

Now, the smog pump bracket is designed to fit 8mm bolts. The Sanden pump is designed to mount using 10mm bolts. So I went to McMaster-Carr and ordered a few sleeve bearings to make up the difference:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=24321&stc=1&d=1310515160

The tensioner has a bend in it to mount up to the smog pump. The mounting ears for the Sanden don't quite line up, but a little smithing to straighten the tensioner out and everything lines up nicely.

The mounting ears on the Sanden also don't exactly line up with the ears on the smog pump bracket, but a simple spacer from Ace Hardware (3/8" ID, 3/4" OD, 3/8" thick) will make up the difference:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=24320&stc=1&d=1310515160

I was thinking of using a really long 8mm bolt, but it would have to be M8 x 140mm or so to be long enough; not easy to find. So I'm thinking of just using a shorter M8 bolt for each ear. We'll see how this works.

subzali
07-12-2011, 07:04 PM
Here's before/after shots of the sleeve bearings going into the mounting ears:

AxleIke
07-12-2011, 11:00 PM
Looks awesome Matt! I love reading your documentations. I'm all about the details, and I love the time you put into your projects!

Didn't realize you were in an appt, but if you ever need tools, or a place to tinker for an afternoon, feel free to swing on by!

Rezarf
07-13-2011, 01:00 AM
I will follow this closely. I am hankering for OBA, the CO2 tank is great but it takes up a lot of space if I can stuff a pump under the hood.

RedCreeper
07-13-2011, 09:05 AM
Not sure how much info you have on the plumbing but make sure you have oil. I have a Sanden from a Ford 302 on mine and was not told about it from the PO and almost smoked it. If you go on the Front Range forum and search on board air there is some good info and online to. I am sure you know this but just throwing it out there. If your not running a tank may want to think about it. So you dont have to run the compressor all the time. I have a 5 gal tank and when it worked it was great. nice start. good luck.

Jacket
07-13-2011, 09:24 AM
Need more detail in how you have to modify things to use the existing air pump mounts. But based on your other projects, I know you'll provide excellent detail. :)

subzali
07-13-2011, 11:41 AM
Looks awesome Matt! I love reading your documentations. I'm all about the details, and I love the time you put into your projects!

Didn't realize you were in an appt, but if you ever need tools, or a place to tinker for an afternoon, feel free to swing on by!

Thanks Isaac, my parents live pretty close by and have almost all the tools I need. And Air Randy is just a little further in case I need a lift ;)

I will follow this closely. I am hankering for OBA, the CO2 tank is great but it takes up a lot of space if I can stuff a pump under the hood.

Yeah, I like the idea of infinite air too vs. a CO2 tank.

Not sure how much info you have on the plumbing but make sure you have oil. I have a Sanden from a Ford 302 on mine and was not told about it from the PO and almost smoked it. If you go on the Front Range forum and search on board air there is some good info and online to. I am sure you know this but just throwing it out there. If your not running a tank may want to think about it. So you dont have to run the compressor all the time. I have a 5 gal tank and when it worked it was great. nice start. good luck.

Thanks Kenny, that's good advice. I know just enough to know that this should work for what I want to have done. I'm thinking of just doing a manual oiling process, rather than having it automated. That might come later if I feel like I need it.

I'll look into it a little more and post up more info as I find it, as far as CFM rating goes etc.

I don't think I'll start with a surge tank, but I have been keeping an eye on other fellas' setups because I'm sure eventually I'll want one. I am planning on getting a water/oil separator though, me wants dry air.

Need more detail in how you have to modify things to use the existing air pump mounts. But based on your other projects, I know you'll provide excellent detail. :)

Well, I'll try to take pictures, but it goes like this: Remove air pump and associated plumbing, and then blacksmith the tensioning arm until it lines up where you want it :hill:

I'll get some pictures once I get the pump mounted to get a good look at the alignment.

rover67
07-13-2011, 11:56 AM
Make sure whatever drier you get can handle some heat too. I got a cheapie plastic one for my setup the first time and it melted. The one I run now was expensive, but it works very well and is all metal.

subzali
07-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Got the compressor mounted tonight. These pictures show the alignment of the pulley and the distance from the exhaust manifold.

subzali
07-14-2011, 07:48 PM
This picture shows the wrap of the belt around the OBA compressor pulley:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=24344&stc=1&d=1310738435

Not that great but should be enough to move some air (hopefully). I lost just a little wrap on the power steering pulley. Hopefully it won't be a big deal because I'm going to try to find a wide pulley for the power steering pump, so maybe that will add more friction to help prevent it from slipping.

This picture shows the front mounting bolt on the bottom. It's an M8x35 I believe, and it was just a hair too long so I added a second washer at the head end of the bolt to bring it back away from the pulley just a touch:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=24345&stc=1&d=1310738435

Thiis picture shows the rear mounting bolt on the bottom. It's an M8x40 I believe, with the 3/8" long spacer to make up the distance between the ears on the compressor and the ears on the smog pump bracket:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=24346&stc=1&d=1310738435

Couple more views of the installation...

subzali
07-14-2011, 07:48 PM
last

RedCreeper
07-14-2011, 11:30 PM
I would highly suggest an oil set up if you dont have a tank. You will be running it longer so you run a better chance of it drying out. On mine the PO told me to just squirt wd40 or a lubricant on the filter and it would suck it in... NOT! It being closer to the manifold it may run hotter also. Just a thought.

subzali
07-15-2011, 08:17 AM
I saw some info on tooling oilers, so may have to check into that. Red Fox says he oils his like once a season and it's good to go.

60wag
07-15-2011, 08:26 AM
Pneumatic tool oilers are designed to go on the high pressure side of the system and use a venturi tube to suck oil into the air hose. I doubt that would work on the pump inlet.

I'm not sure what would work well other than to make it really easy to put a few drops of oil in the inlet just prior to running the pump.

RedCreeper
07-15-2011, 09:15 AM
That is what the other folks using this set up have done and from what i have read has worked well. I believe they got there stuff from Northern Tool for the most part. Just google it, or look on the Front Range site. That is what i did. Not sure how much oil mine had but would not suspect much but could possibly work with just oiling once a season. But would suspect it depends on usage also.

subzali
07-31-2011, 03:45 PM
Slowly but surely...
Got my Trollhole replica small courtesy light switch installed in the previously plugged hole in the dash today. Not quite sure if it's what I'm looking for, any opinions? By the way, in earlier FJ40s this little knob is installed on the right side of the pocket (glove box). My FJ40 has no holes in the dash at this location, so for now I'm using holes that are already existing.

Exclusively for Jacket, I wiped down my dashboard so it's all clean :D

Uncle Ben
08-01-2011, 09:03 AM
Pneumatic tool oilers are designed to go on the high pressure side of the system and use a venturi tube to suck oil into the air hose. I doubt that would work on the pump inlet.

I'm not sure what would work well other than to make it really easy to put a few drops of oil in the inlet just prior to running the pump.

In Wildrice I have used an inline oiler for years! I have a dryer on the pressure side that I pull most of the oil back out along with most moisture. I have run Toyota A/C pumps for a long time! I did chew one up years ago and that was from occasional oiling. Knock on wood but I have never lost a pump since I use the inline oiler. For oil I use a 50/50 mix of A/C oil and Slick 50.

subzali
08-17-2011, 06:12 PM
Had a thought a couple days ago that I forgot about until today - If I had an FJ60, or FJ60 carb, I could hook the idle-up vacuum pot to take signal from the compressor turning on. That would be cool. But not necessary for this build. Or is it? :confused:

Uncle Ben
08-17-2011, 06:19 PM
Had a thought a couple days ago that I forgot about until today - If I had an FJ60, or FJ60 carb, I could hook the idle-up vacuum pot to take signal from the compressor turning on. That would be cool. But not necessary for this build. Or is it? :confused:

That helps but you will find higher RPM is needed for air tools or rapid tire filling. A simple hand throttle is sufficient. In Long Grain (my V8J62) I flash programmed the ECU to kick the throttle up to 1800 when the welder was in need. I did it through the voltage drop when the welder circuit dropped the alternator off line. Worked well!

subzali
08-17-2011, 07:57 PM
That helps but you will find higher RPM is needed for air tools or rapid tire filling. A simple hand throttle is sufficient. In Long Grain (my V8J62) I flash programmed the ECU to kick the throttle up to 1800 when the welder was in need. I did it through the voltage drop when the welder circuit dropped the alternator off line. Worked well!

I figured it wouldn't be enough. Time to think about a hand throttle...

subzali
09-01-2011, 04:40 PM
Just wanted to add a couple links, one of which came from rusty_tlc on MUD:
http://www.grungle.com/endlessair.html
http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/OBA/oba.htm
http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/kits.htm

The SD508 supposedly is a 5 piston compressor which can put out 9cfm and 300 psi. I think the SD510 (which I have) might do slightly more cfm.

LARGEONE
09-04-2011, 03:03 PM
I bought a VERY inexpensive military HUMV hand throttle and it works awesome. I had to modify it slightly to fit my 80, but the way that it adjusts is very nice compared to the toyota one that was available. I think I might have paid like $12. I really like the way you can turn the handle counter-clockwise and dial in the RPMs to whatever you want.

60wag
09-04-2011, 05:46 PM
A hand throttle is good but so are power seats.


A trick I learned from Nakman: You grab your trusty snowbrush/ice scaper and rest one end on the accelerator peddle and hold the other end in front the driver seat, then move the seat forward with the power switch. Stop the seat when you have achieved optimum engine rpm for filling tires with the onboard air. :)

subzali
09-04-2011, 09:37 PM
Um, FJ40 guys, no power seats ;)

AHorseThief
09-04-2011, 10:51 PM
Hand throttle or power seats and an ice scraper...which sounds like the sweeter upgrade?

subzali
01-29-2012, 04:58 PM
Okay, I warned you guys this would be slow...

Got the compressor wired in today. Yep, that's it. :p:
















When I got back inside, I was like, "alright, now all I gotta do is wire in the pressure swi---" :doh:

:rolleyes: So not quite done with wiring it in yet, I have to see what pressure switches I have lying around and figure out how I want to wire one in.

On the other hand, I ran the compressor briefly, so at least I know it works :thumb: It blew a 2A fuse, so I put a 5A fuse in there and so far so good. That wobble plate sounds a little funny, just different from other compressors I'm used to. I put my finger over the outlet port, not really sure what to expect, but it seemed like the flow was lower than I thought it would be - maybe that's because I was at 800 rpm or so. I can see why a surge tank would be a good idea. We'll see how it goes, especially if I run it at a higher rpm. :shrug:

I still have to source an inlet filter and oiler (have to figure out the thread size I guess first) and pretty much all of the pressure side plumbing components, and figure out how to mount all of it up. But getting it to run was a big step :hill: :wrench:

subzali
01-30-2012, 11:20 AM
Does anybody have any input on what on OBA compressor should feel like at idle? It feels like if I were to put my hand up to my face and blow on it, it doesn't feel like 90 psi shop air coming out of an air nozzle...

subzali
01-31-2012, 09:17 PM
Well, got a little progress tonight. A couple days ago I noticed that my electrical connectors were pretty disorganized, so I thought that I should try to fix that a bit. I know you can buy variety packs of this stuff, but I've acquired these a little bit at a time, so this will work pretty well.

corsair23
02-01-2012, 12:39 AM
Does anybody have any input on what on OBA compressor should feel like at idle? It feels like if I were to put my hand up to my face and blow on it, it doesn't feel like 90 psi shop air coming out of an air nozzle...

Not a clue Matt but if you don't get an answer, you could always swing by sometime and we can fire up my 40 and the York and compare :dunno:

Uncle Ben
02-01-2012, 01:04 AM
Does anybody have any input on what on OBA compressor should feel like at idle? It feels like if I were to put my hand up to my face and blow on it, it doesn't feel like 90 psi shop air coming out of an air nozzle...

A compressor by itself (even your home compressor) only puts out 10 CFM (few CFM more or less) Add in the storage tank and now you "compress" the air and create pressure. Just like the air from your mouth....open your mouth and breath out air onto your hand.....meh. Now blow that same air through your puckered lips and you can feel it... same air....less volume more pressure. Try sealing off the output hole from the compressor with your finger....bet ya cant.

subzali
02-01-2012, 09:31 AM
Well, got a little progress tonight. A couple days ago I noticed that my electrical connectors were pretty disorganized, so I thought that I should try to fix that a bit. I know you can buy variety packs of this stuff, but I've acquired these a little bit at a time, so this will work pretty well.

I have no idea why I have all those yellow wire nuts...:lmao:

DaveInDenver
02-01-2012, 09:37 AM
Does anybody have any input on what on OBA compressor should feel like at idle?
Asks the E.I. studying for his test... :-)

subzali
02-01-2012, 10:19 AM
Asks the E.I. studying for his test... :-)

:rolleyes:

Okay, so quick napkin calc:

SD-510 has approx. 10 cu. in. displacement.

I had my engine idling at about 800 rpm. Assuming the compressor pulley is approximately the same diameter as the crank pulley:

At 800 rpm, compressor output = 4.6 cfm with no backpressure

If the discharge connection is 3/4", then that is approx. 21 ft/s discharge velocity. Yeah, I guess that's about what I felt.

:shrug:

At 2000 rpm, compressor output should be about 11.6 cfm with no backpressure, so looks like I need to figure out a hand throttle :D

DaveInDenver
02-01-2012, 10:31 AM
Answered your own question and got a little more prepped! Any word yet from the AES board?

subzali
02-01-2012, 10:52 AM
No, which I'm getting worried about. You got your letter on 1/8/2008. The deadline to register with NCEES is February 23. I should probably call the state and find out what's going on. There were some problems with my application because they changed the format of the application halfway through the time I was filling it out.

Red_Chili
02-01-2012, 12:39 PM
For a cheap but righteous hand throttle... bicycle shifter mounted on your gear shift. Modify the gas pedal to accept another cable, or, cable it to somewhere on the carb itself.

You can use it for those pucker moments starting on a steep hill too... :lmao:

Arapahoe Cyclery should be able to fix you up with all you need.

subzali
02-01-2012, 01:32 PM
For a cheap but righteous hand throttle... bicycle shifter mounted on your gear shift. Modify the gas pedal to accept another cable, or, cable it to somewhere on the carb itself.

You can use it for those pucker moments starting on a steep hill too... :lmao:

Arapahoe Cyclery should be able to fix you up with all you need.

you know Bill, earlier 40s came with a hand throttle, so I think I'm going to keep it "Toyota" on this one :cool:

Uncle Ben
02-01-2012, 02:56 PM
you know Bill, earlier 40s came with a hand throttle, so I think I'm going to keep it "Toyota" on this one :cool:

Nicely played!

Red_Chili
02-01-2012, 04:54 PM
Dash mount? How much?

DaveInDenver
02-01-2012, 05:01 PM
dash Mount? How Much?
Under the dash and pulls on the pedal, it's no-nonsense. I love the straight forward solutions on FJ40s, it's what ghetto engineers would do if they had a factory at their disposal.

26786

subzali
02-01-2012, 05:03 PM
SOR has them for $20-$90. Don't really know the difference between all of those, but...

Uncle Ben
02-01-2012, 05:05 PM
SOR has them for $20-$90. Don't really know the difference between all of those, but...

Christo sells and stocks them too!

subzali
02-01-2012, 05:08 PM
Christo sells and stocks them too!

For 80s...is it the same operational theory as the 40s?

Out of stock at the moment...:(

Uncle Ben
02-01-2012, 05:11 PM
For 80s...is it the same operational theory as the 40s?

Out of stock at the moment...:(

Depends on the 40. My 64 stock one was a normal pull cable that went out to the carb, 60's and 80's are the same pull twist lock to the pedal. I did put the new style in WR. Pretty simple to simply make a tab for the peddle and I grabbed the bracket out of a 60 at the salvage yard.

Jacket
02-01-2012, 05:14 PM
There's an attempt at a group buy on OEM 80 throttles on Mud. But the queue is currently at 100+ and the guy has about 10....

Japan4x4 says he can get them for around $60 I think.

This is probably all irrelevant since I'm sure you're after 40 parts....

Uncle Ben
02-01-2012, 05:22 PM
There's an attempt at a group buy on OEM 80 throttles on Mud. But the queue is currently at 100+ and the guy has about 10....

Japan4x4 says he can get them for around $60 I think.

This is probably all irrelevant since I'm sure you're after 40 parts....

Just get one out of a salvage FJ-62. Probably cost you under $20!

http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=443473&stc=1&d=1282235223

subzali
02-05-2012, 03:18 PM
I might have to go the FJ62 route, that looks pretty good...down the road though, getting the hand throttle installed isn't germane to getting this thing up and running.

I did some head scratching this morning about the suction and discharge connections on the compressor. They are some kind of flare fitting, right-hand thread (so not like a propane tank thread). I went to Ace and they had some, but then I looked on McMaster-Carr and it appears there are two different styles. There is a 45 flare fitting, also known as SAE, and there is a 37 flare fitting, which is for higher pressures. Since this is an automotive application, I'm assuming that I have the 45 (SAE) flare. So I'm not sure what kind Ace carries - they had short nuts like the SAE ones have, so I think Ace is carrying the SAE style.

The compressor has a 5/8" male SAE flare fitting on the suction side, and the discharge side has a 1/2" male SAE flare fitting. The only female fitting available with this system is a tube nut. So I would have to get hard tube, flare the ends, and make some adapters if I want to go to any other type of fitting, like to barbs or NPT.

After the meeting last Wednesday night, Red Fox came over to check out my progress. He suggested that rather than get a dedicated filter element like Marco has, I should tie into the clean side of my air cleaner for the suction side of the compressor. I thought that was a swell idea, and I have a port plugged off on my air cleaner that normally would have provided clean air to my air pump. The hose to fit over that port needs to be (EDIT) 1" ID (clamped connection). So for the suction side, I need to go from (EDIT) 1" ID hose to 5/8" SAE male. The only way I know of that I can make this happen is to get a 5/8" SAE-5/8" SAE swivel (two female nuts with a piece of tube in between, pre-fabbed), then a male SAE-male NPT adapter, then a female NPT-barb adapter. And then I might not be able to get the hose size I want right from those fittings, so I might have to work up to the proper hose size.

On the discharge side, I guess I can get a hose made at NAPA or somewhere that is a female SAE on both ends, then get a male SAE-male NPT adapter that I can bush down to the size I will need for my manifold.

Pretty complex, and not the purdiest solution I would like to see. Might have to do some more head-scratching. :confuse2:

While I was at Ace, I checked out their compressed air accessories and found an air drier, relief valve rated at 120 psi and 112 scfm (too low psi I think), and some other things. Everything is in NPT so that's where I'm going to need to get from these SAE fittings.

Also picked up some air compressor oil - I guess this will work to keep my compressor oiled? :confused:

rover67
02-05-2012, 06:33 PM
Yeah, Plumbing the intake into the air cleaner is the best way to do it in my opinion.

As far as the discharge side goes, depending on how hard you work the compressor (or plan to) think about getting something that will handle some heat.

looking great BTW :)

Uncle Ben
02-05-2012, 07:39 PM
Yeah, Plumbing the intake into the air cleaner is the best way to do it in my opinion.

As far as the discharge side goes, depending on how hard you work the compressor (or plan to) think about getting something that will handle some heat.

looking great BTW :)

I agree on an EFI setup but I have issues with doing it on a carb set up do to filling your storage tank with compressed gas fumes.

rover67
02-05-2012, 08:28 PM
I agree on an EFI setup but I have issues with doing it on a carb set up do to filling your storage tank with compressed gas fumes.

very true... never thought about that one. although with the motor running to power the pump it seems like the chances of getting gas sucked into the compressor are pretty low.



man, may want to think about it...

subzali
02-05-2012, 08:56 PM
compressed fuel vapor in the tires!? :eek:

Uncle Ben
02-05-2012, 09:30 PM
very true... never thought about that one. although with the motor running to power the pump it seems like the chances of getting gas sucked into the compressor are pretty low.



man, may want to think about it...

Excellent counter point! As long as it's a negative pressure (engine drawing air) there should be no fumes in air cleaner except for possible crankcase vapor.

60wag
02-05-2012, 10:06 PM
I chose to not pull air from the air cleaner for my onboard air. Here's why: the pressure in the air cleaner is lower than atmosphere, not much lower but it is lower because the engine is pulling air through it. Any drop in the pressure at the intake of the compressor will reduce its efficiency. Think of it as the opposite of a turbo charger. One of the nice benefits of an engine driven compressor is the relatively high air flow. Why reduce the flow by drawing air from a low pressure zone?

Deerskin
02-05-2012, 10:08 PM
Matt, If you're using 3/4" OD hose for the intake it should be about 1/2" ID. It should just press on over the compressor intake fitting without another interface. Just clamp it off and you're good to go.

subzali
02-06-2012, 08:56 AM
I chose to not pull air from the air cleaner for my onboard air. Here's why: the pressure in the air cleaner is lower than atmosphere, not much lower but it is lower because the engine is pulling air through it. Any drop in the pressure at the intake of the compressor will reduce its efficiency. Think of it as the opposite of a turbo charger. One of the nice benefits of an engine driven compressor is the relatively high air flow. Why reduce the flow by drawing air from a low pressure zone?

Hm. Also a good point. I'm glad I posted up! I'll see what they have at Ace, it might be easier to go the dedicated filter route.

Matt, If you're using 3/4" OD hose for the intake it should be about 1/2" ID. It should just press on over the compressor intake fitting without another interface. Just clamp it off and you're good to go.

The suction of the compressor, the 5/8" SAE, has 7/8"-14 threads. I did some more measuring and the hose port on my air cleaner is 1". I'm thinking of taking Bruce's advice, if for no other reason than that 1" barbs are hard to come by, even on McMaster.

As an aside, the discharge of the compressor, the 1/2" SAE, has 3/4"-16 threads.

subzali
02-06-2012, 11:09 AM
Did some playing around in AutoCAD this morning. Kilby sells an inlet filter that has a 1/2" MNPT connection. I think this would be a pretty clean combo: 5/8" SAE swivel fitting, then a 5/8" male SAE-1/2" FNPT 90 degree elbow. Easy.

subzali
02-06-2012, 07:36 PM
So I was looking at hoses and chucks tonight at the hardware store. Should I go with 1/4" or 3/8"? The discharge is 1/2", most filters/coalescers that I've seen are 3/8" NPT, most manifolds are 3/8" NPT, but it seems that 1/4" hoses and chucks are more common? They are certainly cheaper. But to start with 1/2" and get all the way down to 1/4" seems like, well, kinda wasting the ability of the compressor. Maybe my compressor is overkill? :lmao:

Not to say I can't do it - it just uses more fittings than I was hoping for.

60wag
02-06-2012, 07:57 PM
The schrader valve and the air chuck will present a larger flow restriction than 30 ft of 1/4 id hose. The lightweight hose coils and stores much more easily than the larger diameter stuff. I'd go with the lighter stuff.

subzali
02-06-2012, 09:28 PM
speaking of coils - should I get the pre-coiled hose? It seems like if it gets stretched out then it's trying to twist around and you have to hold it in place, whereas a "normal" hose wouldn't do that. 25 ft enough?

Uncle Ben
02-06-2012, 10:06 PM
speaking of coils - should I get the pre-coiled hose? It seems like if it gets stretched out then it's trying to twist around and you have to hold it in place, whereas a "normal" hose wouldn't do that. 25 ft enough?

You'll hate this answer! :rolleyes: The cheap arse "yellow" coils suck! They kink and when cold they break. The high grade coils you get from truck supply shops are good. (Ige is a good source!) The hoses from Powertank and Ultimate are really good but pricey! If you use regular air hose avoid the plastic crap as It is a pain in the winter and it wears out pretty quickly.

subzali
02-07-2012, 07:41 AM
You'll hate this answer! :rolleyes: The cheap arse "yellow" coils suck! They kink and when cold they break. The high grade coils you get from truck supply shops are good. (Ige is a good source!) The hoses from Powertank and Ultimate are really good but pricey! If you use regular air hose avoid the plastic crap as It is a pain in the winter and it wears out pretty quickly.

Yeah, the ones at the hardware store are PVC.

1/4" or 3/8"? :)

Uncle Ben
02-07-2012, 08:03 AM
yeah, The Ones At The Hardware Store Are Pvc.

1/4" Or 3/8"? :)

5/16" :hill:

subzali
02-07-2012, 08:27 AM
5/16" :hill:

Brat :p:

Uncle Ben
02-07-2012, 09:50 AM
Brat :p:

Your not running a storage tank....1/8" will easily carry 10cfm! :rolleyes:

nakman
02-07-2012, 09:52 AM
Actually, why aren't you running a storage tank?

subzali
02-07-2012, 10:07 AM
Your not running a storage tank....1/8" will easily carry 10cfm! :rolleyes:

Not yet :p:

Okay, understand your point :)

Actually, why aren't you running a storage tank?

I'm just trying to get it up and running for now. I'll worry about a storage tank later. Figured it wasn't really needed for airing up tires alone, but eventually it will be part of the plan.

nakman
02-07-2012, 10:15 AM
Ok got it. When I did my OBA setup I learned 2 things: the first was the fewer airline connections the better- at first I had T's all over the place making my sliders into air tanks, multiple places to connect the hose to, etc. 6 months later I was chasing leaks like mad, my breaking point was I actually had a "blow out" on the way back to Reno, just after we aired up at the end of Rubicon- sounded like someone shot out my tire.. but was just a red air line popping off that had worked itself loose. I was happier when I cut all that out and just ran an air hose from the manifold back to the tank, bypassed the sliders, etc.

The tank is the second thing. In addition to more meat behind airing up tires and running tools, you can shut the truck off, and still have air available. So later on at camp you can top off a bike tire, fill a football, blow dust out of a radio, etc. You're not going to fill a tire from it, but having a little air around can be handy.

rover67
02-07-2012, 11:10 AM
The air tank also acts as a buffer for the compressor. You'll be able to fill tires much faster with it, maybe twice as fast.

black95
02-07-2012, 06:48 PM
The air tank also acts as a buffer for the compressor. You'll be able to fill tires much faster with it, maybe twice as fast.

I still don't get that, and personally think it's a myth.

I run 37's and a big Viair. The 37's will drain the tank almost immediately, then essentially, you're running air straight through the tank to the tire, everything having the same pressure when all hooked up. so why bother with a tank? At best, your tank is big enough to hold higher pressure, then you're pumping air into a 75 PSI tank when it would be easier on the compressor to pump air straight into a 30 PSI tire. :confused: I don't carry air tools because I think that's just silly and adds weight. A 4-way is much lighter and honeslty, how long does it take to spin off 6 lug nuts???

Uncle Ben
02-07-2012, 07:14 PM
Are you going to put a pressure switch but in?

farnhamstj
02-07-2012, 08:45 PM
Matt, this is a cool project. My $.03 are.

keep it as simple as possible.

Having that compressor will result in at least 2 other people wanting to air up their tires too at the end of the trail.

Cheep 12v compressor may be slow but not any slower that airing up 3 trucks worth of tires.

rover67
02-07-2012, 09:45 PM
Matt, this is a cool project. My $.03 are.

keep it as simple as possible.

Having that compressor will result in at least 2 other people wanting to air up their tires too at the end of the trail.

Cheep 12v compressor may be slow but not any slower that airing up 3 trucks worth of tires.

Farnham has a point...... I still leave the parking lot at the same time everybody else does.... and I get to burn more gas.

corsair23
02-08-2012, 01:22 AM
Farnham has a point...... I still leave the parking lot at the same time everybody else does.... and I get to burn more gas.

What's the duty cycle on these types of compressors? I ask because Matt and I almost smoked my York in the 40 filling up tires a few years back on the BOWAGWR. Actually, the York did start smoking and I thought was a goner :eek: - But after it cooled down it started working again. I checked the oil level/condition afterward and it was fine :confused:

subzali
02-08-2012, 02:58 PM
Matt, this is a cool project. My $.03 are.

keep it as simple as possible.

Having that compressor will result in at least 2 other people wanting to air up their tires too at the end of the trail.

Cheep 12v compressor may be slow but not any slower that airing up 3 trucks worth of tires.

Simple. Check. That's why no air tank at this time. Just trying to get from a to b.

I understand the "risk" or "cost" of having OBA installed :lmao:

If it's only myself and maybe one other person (which happens often with me it seems), then it will for sure be faster (and quieter) than those cheap 12V compressors. Plus I won't have to buy 2 or 3 so I have a spare or two sitting around for when one craps out. I'll hopefully spend this money once and not have to spend a whole lot more ($50 or more a pop) every time I turn around. And seeing as I don't have a house with an air compressor yet, it will be mucho bettero than paying money at the gas station to run their stupid compressor.

Farnham has a point...... I still leave the parking lot at the same time everybody else does.... and I get to burn more gas.

I usually am one of the last ones to leave anyway, not usually in a big hurry to get anywhere. Burning more gas, well, yeah...:o

What's the duty cycle on these types of compressors? I ask because Matt and I almost smoked my York in the 40 filling up tires a few years back on the BOWAGWR. Actually, the York did start smoking and I thought was a goner :eek: - But after it cooled down it started working again. I checked the oil level/condition afterward and it was fine :confused:

Your York and this Sanden should have pretty high duty cycles. The 12V ones typically don't have a very high duty cycle. Additionally, the 12V are typically more cheaply made. Treeroot lost a piston on one this past summer up at Argentine, so no more worky for that one. It could happen on one of these two (Marco lost his first York to some problems), but I think the tradeoff of cfm produced is worth it.

rover67
02-08-2012, 03:08 PM
Yeah, i ran mine at like 2k rpm for a while once to try and fill lots of tires and it burned up. the valve plate fried. If you let them run at close to idle they run for a long time. I have used mine for sandblasting parts at home for like an hour before.

corsair23
02-08-2012, 03:17 PM
Your York and this Sanden should have pretty high duty cycles. The 12V ones typically don't have a very high duty cycle. Additionally, the 12V are typically more cheaply made. Treeroot lost a piston on one this past summer up at Argentine, so no more worky for that one. It could happen on one of these two (Marco lost his first York to some problems), but I think the tradeoff of cfm produced is worth it.

That was my thought given what their "normal" use is/was which is why I was surprised that day when my York seemed to seize up. I'm just not sure I'd want to be the go to guy for air for everyone after a run though :o - 1-2 trucks no problem...

Although to be honest, that day I was playing a lot with my ARB lockers...Who knows how long the compressor was running in total. One thing from that trip that I realized is that it would really be nice to have a PSI gauge in the cab to keep an eye on it...There's one under the hood but that is hard to see while wheeling :hill:

For reference I've also got a Viar I bought years ago for use in the LX. Usually took about 15 mins to air up 4 285s from say 15 PSI to 38 PSI. A couple times another person borrowed it after me to fill up as well so figure 30 mins pretty much contantly on. It got hot, but never quit. In fact my only complaint about the unit is the heat and figuring out a good spot to put it to cool down on the trip home.

subzali
02-08-2012, 03:42 PM
Yeah I remember that day your York locked up - still not sure what the deal was there. Did you ever tear into it to figure it out? Which reminds me - another year has gone by, we gotta tear into your Weber one of these days...;)

corsair23
02-08-2012, 03:58 PM
Yeah I remember that day your York locked up - still not sure what the deal was there. Did you ever tear into it to figure it out?

I didn't take it apart...I checked the oil level which was fine and the oil appeared to be in good condition. So, I fired it up and it seems to be working fine so :confused: - My guess is that it just ran for too long on the trail and then when filling up tires and decided to protest :hill: - I do need to verify that the pressure switch is working because with the tank, it shouldn't have to run for very long to either fill the tank or for the ARB's. You can't hear it running while driving on the trail and when it cycles it isn't really that noticeable either...A gauge in the cabin would help keep an eye on it.

nakman
02-08-2012, 04:15 PM
A gauge inside is a very nice thing to have! I know you're trying to keep it simple Matt, but you're already going to have a manifold right for your pressure switch? Running a line inside the cab to a gauge isn't that tough, and can be useful.

subzali
02-08-2012, 04:39 PM
Only going to need air when filling tires, and I won't have a tank for now so there should be no pressure in the system to speak of. KISS for now.

Uncle Ben
02-08-2012, 06:35 PM
Only going to need air when filling tires, and I won't have a tank for now so there should be no pressure in the system to speak of. KISS for now.

Dooood! If you do not run a pressure switch you CANNOT use an air chuck that is not normally open! If you try to hold pressure in your airline you are going to get hurt! The compressor can produce over 1000PSI which is about 750psi more than the best hose you can buy can contain! :eek:

60wag
02-08-2012, 06:57 PM
In addition to the switch, add a pressure relief valve for safety.

Uncle Ben
02-08-2012, 06:58 PM
In addition to the switch, add a pressure relief valve for safety.

:thumb::thumb:

subzali
02-08-2012, 07:28 PM
Um, yes I am adding a pressure switch (did you miss post #26?) and a relief valve. Sorry I didn't understand what you were asking earlier UB in post #70. My pressure switch goes between 110 and 150 and I can get a 150 or 185 relief valve.

Uncle Ben
02-08-2012, 08:05 PM
Um, yes I am adding a pressure switch (did you miss post #26?) and a relief valve. Sorry I didn't understand what you were asking earlier UB in post #70. I think my pressure switch goes between 110 and 130 and I can get a 150 relief valve.

:thumb::thumb:

Deerskin
02-08-2012, 09:28 PM
Matt, I assume you're going to plumb the intake high enough to stay clear of the water crossings. Oil only in these units.

subzali
02-08-2012, 10:29 PM
Yeah, trying to figure out the best way to do that if I'm not going to pull air through the air cleaner. Need to mount the filter up on the aircleaner somehow I guess. Or on the fender.

corsair23
02-09-2012, 12:48 PM
Yeah, trying to figure out the best way to do that if I'm not going to pull air through the air cleaner. Need to mount the filter up on the aircleaner somehow I guess. Or on the fender.

Matt, here is how mine is setup...Not sure if it will help. Of course the deepest water my 40 has seen so far is the little creek on Slaughterhouse. But the water would have to be really deep for any to get into my York. I'd be floating in my seat and bigger problems before I think the York would start ingesting water...

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=3126&stc=1&d=1163665988

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=3127&stc=1&d=1163665988

60wag
02-09-2012, 12:55 PM
Mine is similar to Jeff's setup. An important feature is to have a hose that can stand high temp coming off the compressor where there is the most heat. Nak's old setup would blow the hose off the barb fitting when it got hot. Even a really tight hose clamp wouldn't keep it in place.

farnhamstj
02-13-2012, 07:29 PM
Matt, How's the OBA coming? Better wrap this project up soon. Because, once the baby arrives you will never got to work on anything fun ever again.

subzali
02-14-2012, 09:35 AM
Um, yes I am adding a pressure switch (did you miss post #26?) and a relief valve. Sorry I didn't understand what you were asking earlier UB in post #70. My pressure switch goes between 110 and 150 and I can get a 150 relief valve.

I looked at my pressure switch again, it runs to 150 psi, so I need to get a little higher rated relief valve I guess. Kilby has one for 185 psi.

Matt, How's the OBA coming? Better wrap this project up soon. Because, once the baby arrives you will never got to work on anything fun ever again.

It's going to be done by April, one way or another. I have to make a purchase of the standard components soon (manifold, pressure gauge, relief valve, hose, chuck, etc.). I'm still doing some headscratching on the fittings from the compressor, trying to figure out exactly what I want to do.

rover67
02-14-2012, 02:36 PM
I used a 185 psi valve from kilby I think. Also, i got an adjustable pressure switch so I could turn it down for lockers or up for big air. I have ended up leaving it at about 100 psi for the lockers and airing up. it seems to work fine.

Have you thought about drilling out the head and tapping it to accept pipe threads? that's what I did and it works really well.

Uncle Ben
02-14-2012, 02:41 PM
I used a 185 psi valve from kilby I think. Also, i got an adjustable pressure switch so I could turn it down for lockers or up for big air. I have ended up leaving it at about 100 psi for the lockers and airing up. it seems to work fine.

Have you thought about drilling out the head and tapping it to accept pipe threads? that's what I did and it works really well.

Ditto! I shut off at 105 and on at 85. I also drilled out and tapped the ports for NPT fittings. I also use high pressure/high temp hose and AN fittings. Plumbing through the frame is all sweat soldered 1/4" copper with flex lines at any point of movement.

subzali
02-14-2012, 03:52 PM
Interesting though, if I go for a tank (from Kilby anyway), they have a MAWP of 150 psi. So the 185 psi relief valve is no bueno.
http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/tanks.htm

I have thought about how to tap the head for alternate threads. Haven't been able to figure out a good solution yet.

I still think I have the 45 degree flare (SAE) on this compressor. The -AN fittings are 37 degree flare. I don't know how to tell exactly what I have, some research I've done says that OEM applications didn't come with -AN, only SAE. You can go from SAE to NPT and back to -AN, but not directly from SAE to -AN. Most of the stuff you can buy from Jegs, Summit, etc. are -AN. Which makes me wonder why did Jegs, Summit, etc. settle on -AN if indeed OEM applications didn't use -AN? It doesn't make any sense.

Another thing, is that both SAE and -AN are tubing based, whereas NPT is obviously pipe based. And all this stuff is limited to about 5/8" or 3/4" sizes on the large end, you don't really see anything larger than that. So the options are somewhat limited depending on what you're trying to do.

sigh.

I'll just throw something together and if it leaks I'll know I made the wrong choice and I'll have to go back and fix it :hill:

In all reality, I think I do have a plan though :thumb:

Red_Chili
02-14-2012, 04:19 PM
You can get all the relief valving you need at Grainger, including an adjustable one :thumb: and also any kind of this-to-that adapter you need for NPT, flare, whatever.

rover67
02-14-2012, 04:23 PM
Yeah, the pressure relief valve is there to keep things from exploding not to keep the system below a working pressure. the pressure switch should keep it below the working pressure.

Pretty sure that a tank rated at 140PSI is gonna be OK to 185.

SAE and AN flares are not the same as you've discovered. AN fittings were developed for the aero space industry specifically to have a low tightening torque for a good seal, and to be simple. Not sure why they departed from the SAE specs for the flare, but the aftermarket picked it all up since it is a very easy to work with system that works well with automotive fluids and supports customization. I bet a wikipedia search would answer the question better.

I'd bet a whole lot of money that anything stock is not going to have a flare that is compatible with a AN flare.

Anyways, they make nice 3/8"NPT to AN adapters that you could use if you wanted to. I used 3/8" NPT fittings and a leader hose from Kilby I think that had 3/8" pipe threads on it.

I bet you could find adapters from and AC place to take the SAE fitting to anything you want probably.

actually here:

http://www.godmanhiperformance.com/index.php?group_id=17

Uncle Ben
02-14-2012, 04:24 PM
Interesting though, if I go for a tank (from Kilby anyway), they have a MAWP of 150 psi. So the 185 psi relief valve is no bueno.
http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/tanks.htm

I have thought about how to tap the head for alternate threads. Haven't been able to figure out a good solution yet.

I still think I have the 45 degree flare (SAE) on this compressor. The -AN fittings are 37 degree flare. I don't know how to tell exactly what I have, some research I've done says that OEM applications didn't come with -AN, only SAE. You can go from SAE to NPT and back to -AN, but not directly from SAE to -AN. Most of the stuff you can buy from Jegs, Summit, etc. are -AN. Which makes me wonder why did Jegs, Summit, etc. settle on -AN if indeed OEM applications didn't use -AN? It doesn't make any sense.

Another thing, is that both SAE and -AN are tubing based, whereas NPT is obviously pipe based. And all this stuff is limited to about 5/8" or 3/4" sizes on the large end, you don't really see anything larger than that. So the options are somewhat limited depending on what you're trying to do.

sigh.

I'll just throw something together and if it leaks I'll know I made the wrong choice and I'll have to go back and fix it :hill:

In all reality, I think I do have a plan though :thumb:


-AN is an after market industry standard size. Most likely because there are no half sizes. -AN is all increments of 1/16" (-4AN = 4/16 or 1/4") You can adapt to both NPT and MPT.
Here is a pic of my ND compressor in WR. The hoses and fittings here are -6AN with the pipe thread being 1/4 NPT. AN fittings range from 2 to 16. Adapters can be had even for 1 1/2" radiator hose
to -16AN fittings.

Red_Chili
02-15-2012, 10:56 AM
UB, is that the stock ND compressor that came with the 3.4?

My AC system has a slow leak in the condenser... and being lazy... and having an open vehicle in the summer anyway... and now living at 8K feet and almost never driving in town... I just have not bothered to fix it. I have a perfectly good, reman ND compressor occupying space in the engine bay.

Care to post up YOUR system in more detail?

Uncle Ben
02-15-2012, 11:15 AM
UB, is that the stock ND compressor that came with the 3.4?

My AC system has a slow leak in the condenser... and being lazy... and having an open vehicle in the summer anyway... and now living at 8K feet and almost never driving in town... I just have not bothered to fix it. I have a perfectly good, reman ND compressor occupying space in the engine bay.

Care to post up YOUR system in more detail?

It is. I have used ND's on WR for years. Very simple set up. I use an oiler mounted high up with the filter on the intake side. (with a 50/50 mix of Marvel Mystery oil and slick 50) I have a mainifold on the drivers firewall that has the safety pop off, the pressure switch and the in line dryer recollecting the compressor lube and condensation. A tee right after that for the ARB solenoid. Then a ball valve for shutting down the storage tank. the line goes through the drivers side frame rail to the back where I have a 3 gallon tank mounted upside down to my floor. The access quick disconnect and gauge are right at my rear cage leg. Very simple and has worked for the last 15+ years. I have gone through three ND compressors in that time and none since I use the Mystery oil/slick 50 juice. It powers my old 1/2" impact gun I keep in the truck fantastically and has tightened many a loose pinion nut on the trail along with countless lug nuts! When wheeling my comp is switch on and I forget it. The only time I notice something up is if my front locker isn't working. Used ND comps put out around 10CFM and are usually $50 bucks at the yards or cheaper if you snag then from folks tossing them.

subzali
02-15-2012, 07:08 PM
Okay, I should have been studying or doing taxes tonight, but I wasn't. Went to look at my mounting options for various things, and went and bought some more pieces and parts. Need to make a purchase from Kilby soon, but their website was down a while ago...

First I wanted to get an idea of hose routing, so I looked for interference, and generally to see how much room I had. And I know there's a lot to make fun of under the hood here, but it's a work in progress :hill:

And for those of you that don't like my power wire to the compressor, well I don't know how to help you. Toyota used bullet connectors in the engine bay from the factory, so I don't see the problem ;) I'll put some wire loom around it when I commission the system :rolleyes:

subzali
02-15-2012, 07:11 PM
And then I took a gander at my fender to see how/if I could use existing holes to mount the manifold etc. And then I realized that my fender has been cut and it's rotting out anyway, so if I need to drill more holes it won't hurt anything :hill:

subzali
02-15-2012, 07:13 PM
And then I looked for places to mount a little inlet filter. I didn't have a chance to cruise by the auto parts store tonight to check out their options and hopefully to see what the best way is to mount it, so I'll need to do some more headscratching.

I'd hate to drill into the air cleaner, but there are some little screws that I could probably use to mount a bracket that holds the air filter. A little bendy bendy of some sheet metal and it would probably be good to go.

Uncle Ben
02-15-2012, 07:26 PM
That un used fuel filter would make a great air filter! ;)

subzali
02-15-2012, 07:29 PM
And here's some stuff I got. Still have to get an air hose, might get a cheap one for now and see how long it lasts. It won't be dealing with really cold CO2 like some cheap hoses so maybe it'll be ok for a while. :shrug:

Also learned something new besides the 3/8" vs. 1/4" air connections that we discussed a couple pages back - there are different ends for the quick couplers. I asked the guys there and they said I/M is the most common. T was the other type. So hopefully that's correct.

Upper left: Quick-coupler: $4.99
Upper middle: Quick-coupler plug: $1.99
Upper right: Air chuck: $2.99 - Returned this to get one with a clip.
Middle left: 150 psi relief valve: $10.29 - I guess this might pop off every time my compressor cycles - we'll have to see. Or maybe I'll still get an adjustable pressure switch and keep the pressure down a bit. The pressure switch Marco gave me is huge - maybe I'll just pass it on after I'm done :D
Middle: 5/8" SAE flare to 1/2" MNPT 90 degree elbow: $8.49 - for the suction side.
Middle right: 1/2" SAE flare swivel: $9.99 - basically two 1/2" flare nuts with a short piece of tube in the middle, pre-fabbed for the discharge side.
Bottom left: 5/8" SAE flare swivel: $9.99 - for the suction side.
Bottom middle: 1/2" SAE flare to 3/8" FNPT: $4.29 - I can get a Viair 3/8" hose and thread it right into this connection on the discharge side. - Returned this because I needed an elbow - not enough room.
Bottom right: 200 psi pressure gauge: $7.99

Total: $61.01 $53.73

Fittings add up :o

I still need to get an air hose and some barbed hose connectors (Ace didn't have the right size/configuration I needed), plus the manifold etc. obviously. Getting there. Thanks for letting me share every step and every thought, probably annoying to some but hey it's your fault for clicking on the thread :rolleyes: :D

subzali
02-15-2012, 07:31 PM
That un used fuel filter would make a great air filter! ;)

That's on the breather hose from my diffs. Guess I should probably clean that up some :rolleyes:

Uncle Ben
02-15-2012, 07:33 PM
I/M is very common. If your cheap hose breaks/blows you can borrow someone elses that way! :D Seriously it's very handy to be able to swap attachments!

subzali
02-15-2012, 07:35 PM
I/M is very common. If your cheap hose breaks/blows you can borrow someone elses that way! :D Seriously it's very handy to be able to swap attachments!

Yep, that's exactly why I wanted to get it right. I'm learning a lot about compressed air systems by doing all this, I thought all domestic compressed air systems were pretty much created equal. Shows me :rant:

subzali
02-16-2012, 02:12 PM
Bought some more stuff today:

Air Hose (50 ft PVC) from Lowe's: $14.02
Manifold from Amazon: $24.02 after shipping
Filter/Coalescer from Amazon: $79.49 after shipping (thanks Nick/AHorseThief! :cheers:) - vs. $115 for the one on Kilby's site. This one is made by Interstate Pneumatics, has a metal bowl, and is rated to 300F. Hopefully I don't melt it like Marco did his :eek:
Inlet Filter from Amazon: $30.15 after shipping vs. $28 for the one on Kilby's site. This is the same manufacturer (Solberg) as the one on Kilby's site and I'm assuming it's the same model. It has the same thread connection and is rated for 12 scfm. Heck, the one on Kilby's site may be the one rated to 10 scfm, so if that were to be the case this would be an upgrade. The next largest one is rated to 20 scfm and has a 3/4" NPT connection, which I didn't want. Hopefully this will work.
Air Chuck w/clip from Amazon: $10.37 after shipping
1/2" FNPT to 5/8" hose barb from McMaster-Carr: $7.52 - this hose barb size is hard to find, but it's what I wanted because I don't want the hose to collapse. Maybe it will anyway and I'll have to redo the suction stuff :rolleyes:.

Had to stop by Ace to correct one of my receipts, return some stuff, and buy some more stuff :o

Had to get a 1/2" flare to 3/8" MNPT 90 degree elbow: $4.49
Had to get a 3/8" coupling for above because they didn't have the above in FNPT: $4.29
Another quick coupler/plug set: $7.49
A couple hose clamps: $2.58
Some sheet metal for mounting the inlet filter: $6.29

Running total: $236.92 - boy it adds up! :eek: More expensive than a Viair, but not yet more expensive than 2 :rolleyes:

Still have to buy a pressure switch and leader hose with check valve, but that should be about it except for some random street elbows, nipples, suction hose, and mounting hardware. I'll need to find the receipt for the belt, sleeve bearings, compressor oil and teflon tape I had to buy, and the compressor was donated for the project but can be had anywhere from $30-$50 at a junkyard.

subzali
02-17-2012, 10:13 AM
Can someone school me on relays for belt-driven compressors? Marco gave me some input yesterday, but still not convinced I need a relay...

Also, do I need to worry/account for the compressor starting up against a pressurized manifold? Do I need a bleed-off valve?

rover67
02-17-2012, 10:37 AM
Mine doesn't have a bleed off and it works fine. Bruce runs a bleed off.

DaveInDenver
02-17-2012, 10:59 AM
Can someone school me on relays for belt-driven compressors? Marco gave me some input yesterday, but still not convinced I need a relay...
Relay for what, the pressure switch or clutch or something? I would use one just to avoid a sensor switch fusing closed. Ergo, with a relay you can wire important actuators as fail safe and reduce current on the primary switch, prolonging its life.

subzali
02-17-2012, 11:09 AM
Well here's what I was originally thinking: +12V --> 5A fuse --> dash switch --> pressure switch (rated for 30A) --> compressor clutch. Does that clutch really draw enough current to warrant a relay? Does the clutch draw more current if it has to engage/hold against higher backpressure (higher load)? Or is it just on/off?

DaveInDenver
02-17-2012, 11:18 AM
The clutch is just a coil, basically big version of a solenoid. It takes a certain amount of current at a minimum threshold voltage to hold the clutch engaged and it won't matter the load as such, it's either on or off.

If the voltage drops below the threshold the clutch will disengage regardless of the current. Your circuit could easily have a couple volts of drop, where as a relay right at the clutch could be a volt or less.

Think about it, a fuse + dash switch + 10 feet of wire + pressure switch, that could be 0.5 ohm, which at 5A is 2.5V. You'd have to use heavy wire to keep the drops low and it still might be 0.25ohm at 5A, which is 1.25V. That's before your contacts corrode from the FJ40 being oh so weather tight.

If you use that control circuit to switch the coil of a relay, there might be 250mA flowing, so maybe 0.125V of drop. You could wire that with cheap-o 18AWG and route it where ever the heck you want. Then a 3 foot length of 14AWG from the battery and you're done.

rover67
02-17-2012, 11:19 AM
I was thinking since the pressure switch is rated for 30A, just use a nice industrial like toggle switch and avoid more wiring than neccesary.

Nice thing about a relay though is that you can tie it all to a circuit that is normally on and off with the ignition.. then you avoid killing your battery by accidentally leaving it on.

A compressor clutch will draw a battery down to absolutely nothing if you leave it turned on ..

subzali
02-17-2012, 11:25 AM
Ideally my dash switch would get power only when ignition is "ON" - still have to work that angle though. I think I'll give it a whirl without a relay for now and see how it does. The compressor turns on and off now, so I know I'm not currently getting too much voltage drop, but that's a good point Dave that I'll keep in mind.

subzali
02-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Why the reluctance to use a relay? :-/

I'm not a sparky. I'm scared. This is how I deal with electrical problems: :comp:

Actually I'll give it a little more thought today. So if I use a relay, I need fused power for the switch side of things (in case there's a short at some point) and fused power for the clutch? So 2 separate fused circuits? I've never used a relay before.

DaveInDenver
02-17-2012, 11:37 AM
I'm not a sparky. I'm scared. This is how I deal with electrical problems: :comp:

Actually I'll give it a little more thought today. So if I use a relay, I need fused power for the switch side of things (in case there's a short at some point) and fused power for the clutch? So 2 separate fused circuits? I've never used a relay before.
Not necessarily, with a relay you can tap just about any existing hot or ignition-on circuit for the control side. It's very low current. You hang a fuse from the battery to the relay high side, put the relay right by the battery and a decent wire to the clutch.

This don't take a rocket doctor to figure out, trust me you can do it. IMVVHO doing it this way helps avoid electrical gremlins. The fewer devices in the high current path the better. OTOH, if it works the way you have it, then not bothering is a valid way. But remember that OEMs use an A/C clutch relay for a reason.

rover67
02-17-2012, 12:13 PM
If yo uare going ot use a dash circuit, you should use a relay......

Uncle Ben
02-17-2012, 12:29 PM
If yo uare going ot use a dash circuit, you should use a relay......

Or........you know you will need it anyway.....go ahead and put in a accesory fuse box now! That way your rock lights, air comp, fridge and LED array are taken care of! ;)

http://www.jamesoaksenterprises.com/products/painless/70107.jpg

:evilgrin:

rover67
02-17-2012, 12:32 PM
Or........you know you will need it anyway.....go ahead and put in a accesory fuse box now! That way your rock lights, air comp, fridge and LED array are taken care of! ;)

http://www.jamesoaksenterprises.com/products/painless/70107.jpg

:evilgrin:

that's actually exactly what I did in my 40. it has one bank that is switched with the ignition... the other is hot all the time.

I use one of the switched circuits for my heated seats :D

subzali
02-17-2012, 01:20 PM
Not necessarily, with a relay you can tap just about any existing hot or ignition-on circuit for the control side. It's very low current. You hang a fuse from the battery to the relay high side, put the relay right by the battery and a decent wire to the clutch....

That's pretty much the same thing as I was talking about, I think.

If yo uare going ot use a dash circuit, you should use a relay......

Okay, y'all have convinced me. Should be easy enough.

Or........you know you will need it anyway.....go ahead and put in a accesory fuse box now! That way your rock lights, air comp, fridge and LED array are taken care of! ;)

:evilgrin:

I have an accessory fuse block that I installed a while back. Not the best solution, but not horrible for now and no worse than my factory fuse block. All that wiring needs to be cleaned up one of these days too.

Today I spent my last big chunk of change: $50.61 on the 3/8" Viair leader hose with integrated check valve (24" long), and a Viair 110-145 psi pressure switch. Maybe I should have gotten the 90-120 psi switch. I dunno.

Running Total: $287.53

Uncle Ben
02-17-2012, 01:24 PM
Today I spent my last big chunk of change: $50.61 on the 3/8" Viair leader hose with integrated check valve (24" long), and a Viair 110-145 psi pressure switch. Maybe I should have gotten the 90-120 psi switch. I dunno.

Running Total: $287.53

It does add up quick! I used to run higher pressure in my system but found it doesn't affect the performance much by dropping it down but it does seem to have less leaks and hose failures at lower pressure.

subzali
02-17-2012, 06:33 PM
Another $8.08 to O'Reilly for a 30A relay and 2' of 5/8" ID hose...
And $7.52 for two 1/2" FNPT by 5/8" hose barb adapters...one for the inlet filter and one for the suction side of the compressor...

Running Total: $303.13 ouch broke the $300 barrier...slowing down though.

Also called up 4WheelParts and asked if they could swap me the 110/145 p/s for a 90/120. Should come early next week.

rover67
02-17-2012, 06:52 PM
good call on the pressure reduction. I agree with UB, I really saw little advantage to running higher pressure.

subzali
02-21-2012, 07:17 PM
Getting some things done while I'm waiting for my parts to come in.

I've been fabricating a bracket to hold my inlet air filter on my air cleaner, I'll post some pictures of it later when it's done. Also need to come up with a bracket to hold my air manifold and relay, I think I have some ideas on that that I'll hopefully be able to work on tomorrow. Hopefully I won't hit a snag and can keep steaming along until it's done.

I assembled as many of the inlet and outlet fittings as I could.

On the inlet, I have my 5/8" SAE-5/8" SAE swivel fitting, 5/8" SAE-1/2" MNPT 90 degree elbow, and 1/2" FNPT-5/8" barb all connected and ready to go.

On the outlet, I have my 1/2" SAE-1/2" SAE swivel fitting, 1/2" SAE-3/8" MNPT 90 degree elbow, 3/8"-3/8" coupling, and 3/8" Viair leader hose with integrated check valve all connected and ready to go (NOTE THAT THE CHECK VALVE IS BACKWARDS IN THIS PHOTO):

I'll get some pictures of them mounted in the engine bay later.

60wag
02-21-2012, 08:25 PM
Nice. Is that a check valve or an unloader?

subzali
02-21-2012, 08:40 PM
It's a check valve, integral with the Viair leader hose (BUT MOUNTED BACKWARDS IN THE PHOTO ABOVE). I think I'm going to put a ball valve on the manifold to let off pressure manually, but between cycles the compressor will just have to start up against pressure.

Uncle Ben
02-21-2012, 09:17 PM
It's a check valve, integral with the Viair leader hose. I think I'm going to put a ball valve on the manifold to let off pressure manually, but between cycles the compressor will just have to start up against pressure.

It will be fine! The check valve will hold the pressure in the tank. I installed an unloader in one of my first systems and the only thing I noticed was it would leak after a while. :rolleyes:

subzali
02-22-2012, 12:14 PM
Just got my air manifold, inlet filter, and outlet filter/coalescer in. Few observations:

-The air manifold is longer than I thought it would be. It's about 9 inches long vs. the 6 I thought it would be. It's nice black anodized aluminum though. It has way more ports than I need, but that's ok.

-The inlet filter is a lot bigger than I was envisioning. I'll have to check and make sure it will even fit where I'm thinking of mounting it. I screwed the cap off to look at the filter element, which is replaceable, not sure where you get a new one though.

-The filter/coalescer is a lot bigger and heavier than I was expecting. Marco was able to mount his straight off his manifold, not sure I can do that. For comparison, the one from Kilby weighs 0.75 lb., this one weighs almost 2 lbs. I guess you pay more for less weight with the Kilby.

Some head-scratching yet to do...

subzali
02-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Wondering if I should return this 2 lb. filter/coalescer and swap it out for the more expensive, but lighter at .75 lb. and smaller filter/coalescer from Kilby. With the smaller, lighter one, I could probably close-couple it to the manifold, whereas with this larger one I'm going to probably need to come up with some kind of support for this sucker. Which will probably look huger and stupider than this filter/coalescer already is. Cantilevering this 2lb. weight off my aluminum air manifold and bouncing it around in the rocks doesn't sound like a good idea either.

Any opinions?

rover67
02-22-2012, 01:54 PM
That's why I went with the smaller one from Kilby. you could remote mount your big one and use a cheaper hose to connect it to the manifold. the leader hose and the filter will take a lot of heat out of the air, so I am guessing you'd be OK running a cheaper hose after it..

Also, does the filter you bought have any plastic parts in it? My old one did and i melted the plastic bits out of it..

corsair23
02-22-2012, 02:03 PM
Reading through this (LINK (http://www.onboardair.com/web-instructions/oba_manual.pdf)) it states the filter should be placed 3-4' (hose length) away from the compressor...Not sure if that "rule" applies to all filters or just the Kilby - maybe it is a heat thing?

What about inexpensive home air compressor filters? I guess if this is going to be something you use a lot, you may not want to skimp on the filter. Someday I need to put one on my system but given that I rarely use it :rolleyes:

subzali
02-22-2012, 02:03 PM
I just don't know where I would mount it. There are not really any mounting provisions for it. On a static system (like mounted in a garage) it could easily be supported by 3/8" pipe, but in this case, I'm a little concerned. I don't know if I'm overthinking it or underrating the strength of 3/8" pipe, but it just seems like there can be a significant amount of force involved while off-road. There's a reason there's a battery tie-down and radiator support rods.

It's rated to 300F though, which is higher than the Kilby is rated. It's all metal and glass.

Right now my filter is going to be about 2' from my compressor outlet. Should be far enough to not be 300 deg F :eek:

corsair23
02-22-2012, 02:23 PM
What shape is the filter you have? Normal "round" shape?

Might not look "pretty" but a big hose clamp attached to something? My big water/heat exchanger for my shower system in the 40 has a metal "T" bar attached to the wheel well with basically a couple hose clamps wrapped with some hose around the clamps that secures exchanger to the "T" of the bar. I had to replace the metal bar because it broke. The bar was 1/4" thick by 1/2" wide IIRC and cracked by one of the mounting holes.

Something like that might work but yeah, I'd attach it to something for sure. The exchanger is quite a bit heavier than your filter but still.

You can see the exchanger in the pics I posted in post #88 - It is the gold "tube" attached to the DS fender. I might have the old "T" laying around that you might be able to make work...

subzali
02-22-2012, 02:34 PM
The filter/coalescer is this one:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21pOr8ZZj4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

For reference, it's 7" tall and the bowl is about 2 1/2" diameter. The bowl is about as tall as the width of my hand. And it's top-heavy.

Specs:
-Interstate Pneumatics W1461A
-Metal Bowl
-0.3 micron
-8 oz. bowl capacity
-20 SCFM at 100 psi

subzali
02-22-2012, 02:43 PM
...What about inexpensive home air compressor filters? I guess if this is going to be something you use a lot, you may not want to skimp on the filter. Someday I need to put one on my system but given that I rarely use it :rolleyes:

You got me thinking - I found this one, it's only $20, weighs 1.4 lbs., 175 psi, but I wonder what temperature it's rated to?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00916009000P?prdNo=7&blockNo=7&blockType=G7

And there's this one for $35, 150 psi, no idea on temperature:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM2092182803P?prdNo=5

There's also this inline filter for $13.50, but not sure what the pressure rating is, let alone the temperature rating?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM187895952P?prdNo=3

rover67
02-22-2012, 07:07 PM
whoa that thing looks awesome.

Can you drill and tap any portion of it?

Why not just get some galvanized pipe and make a "u" of sorts to it and then the place you can mount it?


or mount the outlet to the manifold, mount that to something then add a piece of rigid pipe to the inlet and mount that.

is there really just no space for it?

subzali
02-22-2012, 07:20 PM
Took a lot of pictures tonight.

First one is of the fitting and hose layout, approximately.

Second is the air manifold and approximately where I think I want to mount it. Still have to come up with a bracket for it.

Third is the inlet filter. This thing is big, and also here's what it looks like on the inside.

Last is the outlet filter/coalescer. This thing is big too, and heavy.

subzali
02-22-2012, 07:25 PM
On the inlet filter, I started playing with the bracket to see how much height availability I would have. The hood was hitting the inlet filter, so I dropped the elevation down a bit using a hand railing (this is very much a hammer-to-fit, paint-to-match sort of deal. I was using my bumperettes as an anvil a couple days ago :hill:), and it clears good now :hill:

subzali
02-22-2012, 07:28 PM
On the outlet filter/coalescer, I came up with this, which I think will work, supporting the air manifold on one side and an inlet nipple on the other side of the filter, with a u-bend kinda like Marco suggested above. I didn't want to support it fully off the manifold because I think the torque would break the manifold. This configuration will also help the leader hose stay away from the exhaust, but I think I'm going to have to make some heat shields anyway. I can make a bracket that extends down to the sloping part of the fender.

subzali
02-23-2012, 12:46 PM
Was able to take the filter/coalescer apart today. Kinda interesting:

Red_Chili
02-23-2012, 12:55 PM
That thing is huge.

corsair23
02-23-2012, 01:18 PM
Looks like a fridge water filter :)

subzali
02-23-2012, 03:58 PM
That thing is huge.

True. But I think it's going to be easier to keep it and work around it than to return it and pay more for a smaller one. Just gives everyone another thing to make fun of me for :D

Looks like a fridge water filter :)

Yeah I guess. shrug.

subzali
02-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Tonight I hit a big milestone in this project. I got the inlet side of the compressor all plumbed up and ready to go. Got a coat of flat black on the bracket (yes I painted it while it was snowing - I hid under a juniper bush :hill:) and when it was dry to the touch I bolted it on. It has a little bit of flex, which I was worried about, but I can stiffen it up if need be, and when I put the hose on the filter it's actually pretty stiff and helped hold the filter up a bit. I should probably get a rubber washer or something to put under the filter so it sits on the bracket square and tight, but at least it's secured on something for now. I'm kinda getting tired of this project, tired of working for an hour at a time after work, outside, in the cold, after dark, so I am just trying to get this thing done.

So the inlet air filter is 1/2" MNPT. I have a 1/2" FNPT to 5/8" barb fitting under it, then a 5/8" hose to the fittings on the compressor. I hope the 5/8" hose is stiff enough that it won't collapse under vacuum. We'll see.

Oh and BTW, this thing barely clears the hood. I measured as best I could, but in the end I think I just got lucky.

subzali
02-23-2012, 08:47 PM
I also am going to take a whack at the support for my outlet filter/coalescer and air manifold. We'll see how this turns out. For the outlet filter/coalescer, I'm going to have this c-channel that I made out of the remainder of the 22ga. that I bought run down to the angled part of the fender, and run a couple bolts through it. It will support a pipe nipple on the inlet side of the filter, as close as I can get to the filter.

For the air manifold, I need to raise it about 1 1/2" off the fender, so I made up a couple other little brackets for that. I made some webs on them to stiffen them up as well, and that should end up being pretty rigid when it's all bolted up. Then I need to get a couple more fittings and all I'll have left is a little more wiring and then I'll be done.

DanS
02-23-2012, 10:15 PM
Looking good Matt!

Your fab skills with a lack of tools is impressive. I don't know if my brackets would look that good even with the fab tools in the shop.

Dan

subzali
02-24-2012, 08:28 AM
Looking good Matt!

Your fab skills with a lack of tools is impressive. I don't know if my brackets would look that good even with the fab tools in the shop.

Dan

:rolleyes: whatever Dan. You did a frame-off with a custom under-bed storage box that looked (and looks) totally awesome. If you were to look close at what I have here you'd probably lose your lunch.

But thanks for the compliment :o

I'm just trying to get something thrown together. Something you don't see in the pictures is that after I had my bracket all painted nice and shiny black, I realized it was hitting another bracket on the air cleaner housing due to dropping the elevation of where the inlet filter sits. If it had stayed high like I originally intended it would not have been a problem, but I didn't go re-measure after I made some changes and it bit me. So I just took my snips and made a little adustment. I'll probably be tweaking the bracket anyway, so it didn't break my heart too much.

I also would have like to use a heavier gauge steel than 22 ga., but Ace didn't have 18 ga. and they didn't have snips strong enough to cut 16 ga. Not sure I would have wanted to try and work with 16 or 18 ga. with the limited resources I have right now anyway. A welder, as usual, would be nice to fill in the seams of these brackets and add to their rigidity, but we'll see how they do without it.

rover67
02-24-2012, 10:03 AM
I though there was supposed to be a drip oiler on the suction side?

subzali
02-24-2012, 10:33 AM
Maybe someday I'll do that, but right now I'm just going to use the fill plug on the compressor to add a little oil periodically (like after every trail run). That's one of the differences between the Sanden and the Aisin, the Sanden has a fill plug and the Aisin does not.

rover67
02-24-2012, 10:41 AM
Maybe someday I'll do that, but right now I'm just going to use the fill plug on the compressor to add a little oil periodically (like after every trail run). That's one of the differences between the Sanden and the Aisin, the Sanden has a fill plug and the Aisin does not.

:thumb:

nakman
02-24-2012, 12:19 PM
Matt if you want to drive a little north for a day you're welcome to come up and knock this out at my house. Nothing special, other than a garage with heat, tools, air, drill press, welder... will be around all weekend, give me a call if you want.

subzali
02-24-2012, 01:30 PM
Thanks for the offer Tim, and I know others have offered as well. I'm not really complaining about what I've got, I'm making it work, the point is that I am really excited to get a house with a garage. The problem with driving anywhere is that that takes up a significant portion of the very little time I have at the present to get this done. If I had more time to be working on it I'd probably take more people up on the offer. Or I'd drive the 1/2 hour to my parents house where I have total familiarity and pretty much unlimited access to my dad's tools :D I hate being a mooch though too, and I hate imposing on people. I'm figuring out a way to "get 'er done!" :D

Speaking of being short on time, this weekend is a busy one for me, so I don't think any work is going to get done until Monday night :(

nakman
02-24-2012, 03:25 PM
That's cool, and understand completely!

subzali
02-26-2012, 08:08 PM
Made a little progress today...

-Finished drilling holes in my little support brackets for my air manifold, then cleaned them up with the Dremel and gave them a coat of primer and flat black.

-Added a couple oz. of compressor oil to the compressor, so it's good to go for a few test runs.

-Gave it a run test - found out my leader hose was installed backwards (don't know why I thought I had it on right - there's no arrow on the check valve in my defense though). Flipped that around and it seems to be pretty happy just plugging along.

-Bolted up my air manifold to the fender using the little brackets - oh yeah had a $1.58 parts run to Ace Hardware. This thing sits really close to the hood support rod. I knew that was going to be the case, but I got it just in the perfect spot. It's not so much a problem with my manifold but more with the pressure gauge and pressure switch, I had to be a little careful where I put those. I had to get a little creative with the brackets as well because of the VSV that one bracket has to share mounting points with.

-Took some measurements for the last item - mounting the filter/coalescer. Going to pick up some stuff tomorrow to get that a little closer. Hopefully I'm going to get my clip-on air chuck tomorrow or Tuesday, so I can get this thing wrapped up! Still have a little electrical to do, been waiting on my 90/120 pressure switch from 4WheelParts (going to return the 110/145). They said it was going to be here a week ago Monday, then this past Thursday, then tomorrow :rolleyes: Good thing I'm not quite ready for it yet.

-Still have to get my relay bolted on somewhere and wired in.

subzali
02-27-2012, 02:01 PM
My air chuck came in today. But then I stopped at Ace (one that's close to my work vs. the one that's close to where I live where I bought my other stuff) and saw they had one too :doh:

Also made a $57.18 shopping trip to Ace to pick up the (hopefully) last of the parts I need.
-3 x 1/4" NPT hex head plugs
-3/8" x 1/4" reducing coupling
-3/8" short nipple
-2 x 3/8" 90 degree elbows
-2 x 3/8" x 3" nipples
-3/8" x 1 1/2" nipple
-1/4" short nipple
-1/4" x 1/8" reducing coupling

Total: $361.89

Ouch.

farnhamstj
02-27-2012, 03:23 PM
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=&q=arb+air+compressor&gs_sm=1&gs_upl=599l1666l0l4369l5l4l0l0l0l0l304l624l0.2.0.1l3l0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12400634420948185166&sa=X&ei=pPNLT4bNKfL0sQLaqvTqCA&ved=0CIQBEPMCMAQ#ps-sellers

subzali
02-27-2012, 03:25 PM
Yeah I know. Oh well.

farnhamstj
02-27-2012, 03:33 PM
Just razzing you Matt. It's another $36 for the hose and chuck anyway. Keep the picture coming.

subzali
02-27-2012, 03:50 PM
That's the thing. All the little crap adds up. The $50 I spent today are fittings that, combined, fit in one hand. Oy

rover67
02-27-2012, 04:49 PM
Yes, reducing the amount of brass is key to lowering cost in one of these exercises.

subzali
02-27-2012, 07:03 PM
yeah, didn't realize that. Is galvanized cheaper than brass? Too late now :o

Made a bunch of progress tonight. 4WheelParts finally got my pressure switch in, but I'll have to pick it up tomorrow.

So I got my manifold plumbed up with everything else I needed.

Rough-fit my coalescing filter support bracket, I think it'll work pretty good. Hardest part will be figuring out where and how to drill holes in my fender to bolt it up. It definitely needed something, and this bracket really stiffens up the support a lot. I'm sure if I adding some welds and better gussets on my little brackets they would do a lot better. Maybe in iteration 2.

Getting closer, hopefully tomorrow I can final size, clean up and paint my support bracket, figure out how to drill holes in my fender, and start wiring. The wiring shouldn't take too long, it's the cleaning up of the wiring and making it look nice that takes a while ;)

Have to make some heat shields for the exhaust manifold in a couple spots.

subzali
02-28-2012, 07:23 PM
Making more progress tonight.

Put my 90/120 Viair pressure switch in.

Put my quick-coupler in. Now it's ready to hook up an air hose. My air hose and air chuck are ready too.

Got my coalescing filter support bracket fit up. Drilled mounting holes in the bracket and in the fender, touched up the corners and edges and got a coat of primer on it. Should be able to paint it black tomorrow and bolt it up. I'm a little worried about the sharp edges rubbing on the copper pipe, but we'll just see how it holds up and I can always make adjustments later. I'm probably going to have to eventually weld these brackets to make them stiffer, and/or use some heavier gauge metal to make a more substantial bracket - I've been thinking about how I might be able to put a hydraulic press to work :eek: :wrench: :D

So now I'm pretty much down to wiring. Gonna try to work on that more tonight, and make a big push to get it done. Then I'll need to try and dig up a stopwatch somewhere and do some tests :D

EDIT: I forgot to load pictures last night.

corsair23
02-29-2012, 01:21 AM
I'm a little worried about the sharp edges rubbing on the copper pipe, but we'll just see how it holds up and I can always make adjustments later.

Looking great :thumb:

How about some door edge trim/welting?

Welting (http://www.sor.com/sor/cat200f.tam?cart=12B28akx.err&lpg=%2Fsor%2Fsearchresult%2Etam&wz=30872308011057216186811221917224822363425685287442734687977468202182053932444623231747133212977490242433621366196151869023880&lpt=1330499900&tr=3087210572133211618621917317472248229774308012568527346811228744623223634324659024196157468213662021832444205398797238801869024336&pagenumber%2Eptx=1&page%2Ectx=cat200f%2Etam)

I've got a bunch of it that someday will hopefully end up on the 40 but I could donate a bit to your project :) - I'm thinking it would stay in place fine or you might have to glue it down but it should prevent rubbing...You might have to trim your support a bit more for it to fit.

subzali
02-29-2012, 07:34 AM
Welting is a good idea Jeff - I might have to swing by your house and pick a little up ;)

corsair23
02-29-2012, 01:22 PM
Welting is a good idea Jeff - I might have to swing by your house and pick a little up ;)

:thumb: - Just let me know when and how much you need

subzali
02-29-2012, 07:18 PM
2:45





That's how long it takes, at 900 rpm, to take a 31x10.50R15 from 12 psi to 36 psi. Not a barn burner, but respectable.

I have a leak at my pressure gauge, but other than that, all systems appear to be nominal. I'll post some pictures, and maybe a video, later.

farnhamstj
02-29-2012, 08:26 PM
:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Jacket
02-29-2012, 08:32 PM
Cool. Glad it's operational. This will be a nice reference thread if I ever get around to it in my 80...

subzali
02-29-2012, 09:19 PM
Some pictures (I added some to my post above too that I forgot to add last night).

I know some of you don't like bullet connectors, but I figured they weren't any worse than the spade connectors y'all told me to connect to my relay with (unless they make generic relay plugs that I'm not aware of), so :p: ;)

At least I used split loom ;)

I changed the routing on my leader hose a little to avoid the exhaust manifold, but now it's really close to the brake pressure switch wire. I'll have to keep an eye on that and see what happens.

My coalescing filter support seems to be doing what I wanted it to do; time will tell if it has vibration issues or chafing issues. It definitely could be a little heavier-duty than 22 ga., I can tell that already. 16 ga. would be better. And gusseted/welded.

subzali
02-29-2012, 10:08 PM
Very low quality video:

OBA Test 1 (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/subzali/MVI_4690%20small.wmv)

EDIT: Thanks Jacket! :cheers:

Crossposted to MUD...
http://forum.ih8mud.com/winching-recovery/569011-sanden-board-air-compressor-77-2f-fj40.html

AHorseThief
02-29-2012, 10:39 PM
That's a whole lotta shiny new in that 35 year old truck. You'd better hurry and get it dirty so it matches everything else.

Jacket
03-01-2012, 12:01 AM
Is this what you're after?

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/subzali/MVI_4690%20small.wmv

subzali
03-01-2012, 07:45 AM
Thanks Matt! I'm still not sure how to properly copy the url over, but I used yours and it works fine!

Uncle Ben
03-01-2012, 08:32 AM
2:45





That's how long it takes, at 900 rpm, to take a 31x10.50R15 from 12 psi to 36 psi. Not a barn burner, but respectable.

I have a leak at my pressure gauge, but other than that, all systems appear to be nominal. I'll post some pictures, and maybe a video, later.

Glad you got it going! :thumb: That's about a normal time to fill a tire from most sources. Think about how tiny the actual hole in the valve stem is! On my 40 I have dual stems. The second stems are Monster valves. They will air the 40's down from 25 (street pressure) to 4# in about 20 seconds. They will air back up the tire in about 45 seconds! CO2 seems to air up quicker too than OBA. I think it's probably because of the dry gas.

....looking for a web pic I found this article....pretty much sums it up...
http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0909or_power_tanks_monster_valves/index.html

subzali
03-01-2012, 08:51 AM
Glad you got it going! :thumb: That's about a normal time to fill a tire from most sources. Think about how tiny the actual hole in the valve stem is! On my 40 I have dual stems. The second stems are Monster valves. They will air the 40's down from 25 (street pressure) to 4# in about 20 seconds. They will air back up the tire in about 45 seconds! CO2 seems to air up quicker too than OBA. I think it's probably because of the dry gas.

....looking for a web pic I found this article....pretty much sums it up...
http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0909or_power_tanks_monster_valves/index.html

Cool, yeah I can see that especially for larger tires, having a less restrictive valve would help. CO2 also has the advantage of all of its pressure potential available to quickly inflate the tire. Same with an air receiver. I need to start thinking about where to put one of those now...:wrench:

nakman
03-01-2012, 09:36 AM
Sweet you got it going! Put a brick on that gas pedal for faster performance... right around 1200 is a good sweet spot IMO, 2000 is the upper limit. An ice scraper between the pedal and driver seat can make for a good hand throttle.

subzali
03-02-2012, 04:46 PM
I just have to add this: I don't know why it takes me so long to do stuff like this - I looked over Marco's thread and he installed his in an afternoon. Mine took me two weeks +/- :rolleyes:

Oh well. It's just the way I am I guess.

corsair23
03-05-2012, 04:37 PM
I just have to add this: I don't know why it takes me so long to do stuff like this - I looked over Marco's thread and he installed his in an afternoon. Mine took me two weeks +/- :rolleyes:

Oh well. It's just the way I am I guess.

:lmao:

You could have brought it over to my place and it would still have been in pieces this fall so I'd say you did good :thumb: :hill:

subzali
03-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Took Jeff's welting and made some cuts so it could make the bend. We'll see what happens here. I might have to come up with some sort of hold-down so the pipe doesn't bounce out of the slot. It's ugly for now but if the theory works I'll clean it up some.

Rezarf
03-11-2012, 02:11 PM
I just have to add this: I don't know why it takes me so long to do stuff like this - I looked over Marco's thread and he installed his in an afternoon. Mine took me two weeks +/- :rolleyes:

Oh well. It's just the way I am I guess.

Your a race car compared to me!

...wait, I have two kids under 3, yeah that's it!
:thumb:

corsair23
03-12-2012, 03:19 PM
:thumb:

Not pretty but if it works...

subzali
03-12-2012, 03:26 PM
:thumb:

Not pretty but if it works...

:hill:

We'll call this...testing the theory...yeah. :rolleyes: ;)

subzali
04-15-2012, 05:58 PM
Another data point. From today's run.

1000 rpm, 1:30 to fill from 12 psi to 36 psi. Not bad, and a lot better than my initial test run. Maybe adding oil is helping the compressor efficiency a little bit :confused:

subzali
05-21-2013, 03:33 PM
When the car tire is flat in the driveway, I'm thankful for my On Board Air. That is all.

:D

no, I haven't invested in a garage air compressor yet :o

rockrod
05-21-2013, 09:51 PM
Do you have a storage tank? It really improves the air up performance.

Nice work!

nakman
05-22-2013, 12:23 PM
Do you have a storage tank? It really improves the air up performance.

Nice work!

I think storage tanks help on the first tire, but after that they're less of a help, possibly even an impediment. When I ran OBA my tank pressure would be a solid 90psi, yet after the first tire would drop to around 45 (while filling) and pretty much camp out there, along with the rest of the system. So then to get air into the rest of the tires you're not only filling the lines in the system, but a larger tank, which at that point is almost in the way. There's obviously some recovery benefit between tires though. To really prove this out you'd want to measure PSI at the compressor and in the tank, record readings before you start, during each tire, etc. And if you put a shut-off valve to & from the tank so you could easily disable it, time yourself on all 4 tires both with the tank and without. I'd be interested to see if in fact it's actually a little faster with no tank.

rover67
05-22-2013, 01:26 PM
Nak, I disagree....

Without one the compressor cycles a lot. It'll shut off in between tires, not be running while you are hooking up air hoses, not filling a tank while you are heading to the air up spot, and not holding air afterwards.

Using one gives a nice buffer and gives a huge head start when you pull into the air up spot. also, when you are chatting while switching from one tire to another, it is filling.

subzali
05-22-2013, 02:43 PM
I don't have one. My puny 31s don't take long to fill.

nakman
05-22-2013, 03:40 PM
Nak, I disagree....

Without one the compressor cycles a lot. It'll shut off in between tires, not be running while you are hooking up air hoses, not filling a tank while you are heading to the air up spot, and not holding air afterwards.

Using one gives a nice buffer and gives a huge head start when you pull into the air up spot. also, when you are chatting while switching from one tire to another, it is filling.

Yes you gain a little between tires, particularly when chatting excessively. But once your tank pressure drops the pump cycles on and doesn't shut off until you stop filling- at least that was my experience.

Imagine two guys filling up truck tires with a bike pump. One of them puts a storage tank between the pump and the tire, the other goes direct- you give tank guy a head start to fill the tank until it equals the output pressure of the pump, then start a race. I say the guy without the tank wins, and there's an inefficiency to pressurizing the greater volume of air inside the tank.

Kinda like a 4" water line in your house- your water pressure would taper off pretty quick, right?