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Corbet
08-04-2011, 10:00 PM
I can't decide between the two.

Here is my dilemma. My old laptop (PC) crashed in June and I got a temp replacement from my computer guy for $125 (another PC) however its slow as hell. Battery life sucks. But its getting me by for now.

I can get a little bit of a break on Sony computers, so if I get PC, it will be a Sony. I can get a basic unit for about $650 before I add any software. But I'll have to buy MS office for $120. Then the Sony I want is a grand. But neither of these are built to the specs of the Mac below.

Apple Macbook Pro comes in at $1249 with a hard drive upgrade. I would have to buy quickbooks for Mac ($179) and probably get apple care so my new total is $1700. We already have MS office for Mac from Marianne's Macbook.

Our last 4 PC based computers have had lets say below average lifespans for one reason or another. (2 Dells, 1 Gateway, and a Toshiba) Marianne's Macbook is 4 years old with no problems. But the damned cost:rant:

Cost is somewhat of an issue but not one to be the final deciding factor. I'm also due for a phone upgrade. So what ever direction I go here will probably dictate a matching mobile device.

What say any of you computer experts?

coax
08-04-2011, 10:13 PM
I can't decide between the two.

Here is my dilemma. My old laptop (PC) crashed in June and I got a temp replacement from my computer guy for $125 (another PC) however its slow as hell. Battery life sucks. But its getting me by for now.

I can get a little bit of a break on Sony computers, so if I get PC, it will be a Sony. I can get a basic unit for about $650 before I add any software. But I'll have to buy MS office for $120. Then the Sony I want is a grand. But neither of these are built to the specs of the Mac below.

Apple Macbook Pro comes in at $1249 with a hard drive upgrade. I would have to buy quickbooks for Mac ($179) and probably get apple care so my new total is $1700. We already have MS office for Mac from Marianne's Macbook.

Our last 4 PC based computers have had lets say below average lifespans for one reason or another. (2 Dells, 1 Gateway, and a Toshiba) Marianne's Macbook is 4 years old with no problems. But the damned cost:rant:

Cost is somewhat of an issue but not one to be the final deciding factor. I'm also due for a phone upgrade. So what ever direction I go here will probably dictate a matching mobile device.

What say any of you computer experts?

So you are looking at the 2.3/13" mbp? I've always figured price vs. performance of the hardware you pay about double for a mac. The rest of the money buys you a user interface that is reasonably straight forward. Just being able to use the keyboard more than the mouse on OSX was worth the extra for me.

As for reliability, I've owned 3 mbp's. The first non-unibody was the most reliable and had no problems. Then a bunch of folks at work got first gen unibodys, and there were a number of hardware problems with those. Network cards going out, screens flickering, cooling fans going down, etc. I've now got the previous gen. MBP, and so far its working ok, about 7 months of use on it. I've had dell and toshiba laptops that followed a similar pattern; some good, others not so much.

One thing to consider, that you touched on above, is what apps you are going to be running. Anything that is platform specific or needs to integrate with other systems at your house?

I have not messed with windows 7, but if you are doing anything more than web browsing and email, I'd get a mac. fwiw

(Also, unless you have some "specific" hardware that only works on windows, you can take your Old copy of windows from your laptop, install virtualbox and windows on the mac, and run them at the same time. I did this fairly often for work since it was a windows environment. Used OSX primarily, but still had windows if necessary for oddball apps.)

Nay
08-04-2011, 10:16 PM
It is so great having a Mac where everything integrates. Get the iPhone, Apple TV, forget about crappy windows stuff and your OS going to sh$t every six months in performance. No brainer if you aren't trying to push well beyond the native apps and trying to make a Mac a Windows machine.

We have two Macbooks and one of them had a hard drive fail at 3 years. Took it to the Mac store and the guys looks it up and says "oh, we had a service issue on that HD series, but we don't carry 80G anymore so we'll replace it with a 160G."

20 minutes later all is well and I'm headed home to restore the entire system from Time Machine. Less than 2 hours total and it's fully running again with the new HD.

Worth your $$$, skip the AppleCare...

Corbet
08-04-2011, 10:22 PM
Corey - I'd like to get Adobe CS5.5 I publish a direct mail magazine designed with InDesign. Currently my graphic artist handles everything but it would be nice to have the software too in case of emergencies. He operates on a Mac.

Once I buy the CS software I feel I'm not changing sides as that costs more than the computer itself.


Dave - What does the Apple TV do? We currently have Direct TV, its out only option here in the sticks.

Trapper50cal
08-04-2011, 10:50 PM
A 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 imac is helping pay your mortgage, Big Guy.:rolleyes: (and my rent...)

You know where I fall on this one.

nuclearlemon
08-04-2011, 11:02 PM
i own an iphone, so there's no way in hell i'd own a mac. the phone is small and a big p.o.s., so i can only imagine how horrid it would be on a larger basis.

Caribou Sandstorm
08-04-2011, 11:13 PM
Go Mac, especially for publishing. You will dig it! And get an iPad. It has literally changed how I do most everything for personal and work. Typing this via iPad now.

Groucho
08-05-2011, 07:47 AM
I have a MacPro with 2 x 2.26 GHz 8 Cores and upgraded to the ATI Radeon HD 4870 graphics as well as started off with 12GB of RAM. I left the one bay at the 650GB HDD and installed Windows into #2 on a 1TB HDD. I use Solidworks while running windows on BootCamp with the second HDD and have never had the problems I do at work with a PC. The way things "just work" sold me.

Get a Mac. Listen to JT.

nakman
08-05-2011, 09:35 AM
Apple TV: A $100 box you plug into your TV. Allows you to send to the TV from any apple device (phone, ipod, ipad, macbook..) anything on your local network, it's an HDMI input on the tv. We don't use it often, but when we do it's pretty cool. Also Apple TV allows you access to all your itunes in the house, from anywhere.. so if you have a nice stereo hooked up to the tv upstairs and a computer in the basement full of music, now you can control the itunes upstairs and play it through your tv/stereo system. I have no idea how all this works, it just does.

Groucho
08-05-2011, 11:15 AM
BTW, I also have 2 AppleTV's and a Black MacBook.

What Tim said.

BreckBJ44
08-05-2011, 12:23 PM
This is probably even more of an emotionally charged issue than the gun thread!

Corbet, I build fully integrated internet applications and Websites using the complete Adobe master collection on a PC. The theory that Macs are better for graphics is no longer true as the integration of Intel chips brought the hardware differences into equity. The older RISC based chips were ahead of the game back in the day, but that is no more.

The Macs are simple and integrated well, but that simplicity can be a downfall for those that have unique situations or want to customize beyond what Macs allow. I can't use Mac for my business since the web application servers I need to run do not work well on a standalone workstation. I have tried to build a test server on mac, but it was incredibly easier on the PC due to file access and customization.

While I am not a Windows believer (I'd love to get more exposure to workstation Linux/Unix) Windows 7 is quite stable, intuitive, and easy to use...

Two last notes... I know that most early laptop failures happen due to lack of cleaning out the cooling fans and circuits. Mine was getting SLOW before I vacuumed out the air ports. Secondly, I have Adobe CS4 if you want to install InDesign (not much difference between that and CS5/5.5) or all of the collection. If you are set on 5.5 I can get access to that as well for you.. Oh, and I can get discounts on some other manufacturers if you want to price shop...

K

Loki
08-05-2011, 01:49 PM
http://xkcd.com/934/

BreckBJ44
08-05-2011, 03:19 PM
http://xkcd.com/934/

That took my whole post and summed it up in one frame!

corsair23
08-05-2011, 03:22 PM
I get emails from Tiger Direct all the time with "Great Sales" - no idea if they are great sales or not but here is the link to the ad I got today:

LINK (http://www.tigerdirect.com/email/WEM2770.asp?SRCCODE=WEM2770BY&cm_mmc=email-_-Main-_-WEM2770-_-tigeremail2770)

I'm a windows person...Macs confuse me :hill: - It is akin to being a long time skier IMO. If you learned to ski and ski well, switching to snowboarding even if it might be cool and the in thing just ain't happening :lmao:

My daughter has a Mac something laptop...They confuse me (drag the CD icon to the trash can to eject the disk?) and just buying accessories like a gel case IMO is an effort in futility because even if you have a Mac 13.1 something or other it somehow matters if it is a unibody or something :confused: - Every time something goes wrong with the stupid thing I don't have a clue how to help out. The casing is cracking and screws are falling out of the bottom and it isn't a year old yet :rolleyes:. One thing I give Apple credit on is customer service although going into a Apple store IMO is like being transported to another dimension - those places seem to be packed whether you go in at 8am, noon, or 9pm. But, after my daughter spilled chicken noodle soup on her laptop (after owning it less than 6 months) they replaced whatever they had to in order to get it working again at no charge as it was covered by the warranty :thumb: - Took a couple weeks but they fixed it.

Personally I think most things Apple are overpriced and cultish but they seem to make people happy and people buy the stuff up in droves so Apple must be doing something right.

Chris
08-05-2011, 05:47 PM
Apple's doing things right which is why it's the second largest US company, only Exxon Mobil is larger. Yes they are priced higher but it's like buying a Toyota vs a Ford, you pay more because you know you're getting quality and value. Buy a Mac and stop replacing your PC every 6 months. ;)

nuclearlemon
08-05-2011, 06:17 PM
i don't have to replace my pc every six months. never have. my iphone will get replaced two years sooner at least than my pc. it consistantly locks up, it's slow. programs don't work correctly. some of it is the service, but not all. i've never gotten less than five years from a pc. and i've never bought a quality pc. i've never spent more than $500 on a pc and that has always been in kit form with a monitor, mouse, speakers, keyboard.

pmccumber
08-05-2011, 07:48 PM
It's been at least a year since my last Apple rant:

Every six months? Que?!

Apples are made in China with disk drives from Seagate/WD/Hitachi, motherboards from Taiwan, graphics chips from nVidia or ATI, processors from Intel, network parts from Broadcom. This is NOT a Toyota versus Ford argument unless Ford is putting Toyota parts exclusively in their new models.

Seriously, there is absolutely no difference up until the packaging. Admittedly, Apple does a great job with their shock and thermal. And that is indeed a big deal. So get an enterprise laptop if you must.

What exactly runs so much better? Office, Matlab, Visual Studio, Firefox, Cygwin, Perl? My experience is everything runs better in Windows because it is a bigger market. I know for a fact that Matlab is at least a year ahead in Windows over Apple so most people at our place run their Macs in emulation (which is an absolutely stunning emulation - not saying Apple doesn't do a great job with software - just saying I don't care about the OS).

I can't fathom spending double for the same exact electronics. Now, yes, it is running a BSD Unix variant that is slick as all get out. Great. But I'm a guy who hates GUIs anyway and so I've never cared about icons getting bigger as I roll over them and whatever other wizbang feature they have. I just bought yet another PC (sixth one running in this house) off Woot for $225 with a docking station. Couldn't be happier. Saving the extra $1500 for ammo for the roving hordes gathering in the current mounting depression.

Now I'm a stockholder of that misable company so go ahead buy them. But please, please, please don't get the Apple Jesus-fish-like logo sticker and afix it to your car next to your Rising Sun sticker.

farnhamstj
08-05-2011, 09:26 PM
:coffeescreen:Got a 13" Mac book pro in the spring. If I were to to it again I'd buy the same thing over again. Plugs into 40" TV to watch movies and listen to tunes. I'm no computer genius, I update a website using Joomla, emails, Netfix, pandora. Way more computer than I'll ever need.

nuclearlemon
08-05-2011, 09:53 PM
:coffeescreen:Got a 13" Mac book pro in the spring. If I were to to it again I'd buy the same thing over again. Plugs into 40" TV to watch movies and listen to tunes. I'm no computer genius, I update a website using Joomla, emails, Netfix, pandora. Way more computer than I'll ever need.

my acer with windoze plugs into the tv and plays music and movies too.:confused::rolleyes:

farnhamstj
08-05-2011, 10:18 PM
:computertoss:

RedCreeper
08-06-2011, 03:02 AM
I have worked on both PCs and Mac's my entire career. Everything has its place and purpose. I have a Dell PC laptop here and i can't stop getting viruses on the darn thing. My Mac on the other hand don't have this issue. Way back when there was a solid line between the PC and the Mac all Artists used Macs and number gurues used PCs. That line has changed and almost all software can be used on both OS. Yes Mac's cost more but you get what you pay for. I have a 933 G4 Tower that is still kicking along after about 8 years. knock on wood. Have a I Mac for the wife and it still works with only one problem when we got it. Since then no issues at all and that system is about 6 years old. My G4 laptop finally died but i used the heck out of that thing. I just got a 17in MacBook Pro with a solid state HD and this thing is awsome. Real power house to run my CS suite and photography applications along with Quark Xpress. At my old office we had 24 inch Imacs and those rocked till a back surge hit the office and we lost some hard drives. The PC Mac war has gone on for years and what it comes down to is what one is comfortable with. Mac's are not that confusing at all. The problem lies in that the PC is so complicated and the Mac is so simple. Once you get over that its a breeze to work them. If you think about the day when speed counted on a puter a PC rated at 2ghz was as fast as a Mac at 1.5 ghz. Some of this is the OS being so complicated on a PC. Also the PC Window system was based of the Mac OS way back in the day. Just food for thought.

I am sorry to hear that Ige has so many issued with the Iphone. I have had mine for 3 years now and the aps work fine and no issues. Just the battery does not like to stay charged when u get a lot of internet usage. It comes down to not everyone has had a good experience with them. That will never change. I also find it hard to believe that her Acer will run the aps you will want to run with efficiency and speed. Unless she has a bunch of memory and a huge processor.

It is a big decision to make but you do get what you pay for. I would go Mac since you want to run the CS suite and want to be able to work on your designers stuff. Just remember you will need the font he used. If you can may want to get as much memory you can so you have room to grow. Aps are getting bigger and in a few years you will be glad you got the extra memory and speed. As far as the protection plan i never get them but then again i have some knowledge of the Mac OS and can fix them when it does need it. So for someone new to the Mac it may be a good idea unless you have friends that can crack one open and fix it for you. You also get one year of support i believe from apple with a new system.

My .02

PhatFJ
08-06-2011, 09:21 AM
I got REALLY tired of the PC I got for the wife and family crashing, PC's seem to be much more vulnerable to viruses. I picked up a MBP Unibody, everyone uses and it has been running for about a year now and has only locked up once while on Safari. I just bought another one for my daughter who is going off to CSU in about a week. I have found these 15" MBP's 2.53Ghz on CL and E-bay and have only paid about $950.00 each, fantastic shape with all original packaging.. For my business however I have always used PC only because of the investment in software. I have been a fan of Dell's and now am using an E-6400 XFR ballistic series and love it and it's SSD drive, spendy however!
Good luck!!

BreckBJ44
08-06-2011, 06:00 PM
Pc viruses are really not that big of a deal if you use a good virus program... in fact the one windows is coming with now (security essentials) rated as high if not higher than McAfee and Symantec/Norton... and it's free.

To be honest, the number one cause of computer viruses is the same as human viruses. Our friends and our kids' friends. Most of the viruses we get are from the user opening emails or websites without being wary... I ran a system for three years without getting anything major or removable. I ran a test every week with a networked system to make sure. Edit: also another huge source is downloading free/hacked apps and media. But, you lay down with dogs and you shouldn't be surprised to come up with fleas...

Oh, and Mac has malware that just was testing the water about a month or two ago. There will be more.

pramjockey
08-07-2011, 09:14 AM
I can't vote on the poll, because I don't think any of the three are a good option - everything I've heard and read about the Sony is bad as far as quality and reliability; discount or not if it doesn't stay running, it isn't worth it.

To me, Mac doesn't make sense because it simply won't do what I want it to do. I also find them to be underpowered and over priced. If you're seriously looking at spending upwards of a grand, you can find a very powerful computer that will give you several years of service.

I would actually recommend stepping back and coming up with a list of what you really need the computer to do. What's absolutely mission critical, what are nice to haves, and what isn't important. Then, I think there are a couple of people on here who could help you either purchase or build (if you can work on a truck, you can build your own computer) a system for significant savings.

I'd start with the first question: Does the computer need to be a laptop? Do you actually use it as a mobile computing platform?

nuclearlemon
08-07-2011, 09:32 AM
Pc viruses are really not that big of a deal if you use a good virus program..
.

i'll second that. i've never had a virus. at least not anything major. i've had four computers in the last fifteen years. three were replaced because they were outdated. the last one was replaced because the bios chip was fried (literally).

DaveInDenver
08-07-2011, 10:04 AM
To me, Mac doesn't make sense because it simply won't do what I want it to do. I also find them to be underpowered and over priced. If you're seriously looking at spending upwards of a grand, you can find a very powerful computer that will give you several years of service.
I dunno, we have a 2 x 2.4GHz quad core (8 total cores), 12GB (DDR3 1066MHz), ATI 5770 Mac Pro that she uses for CS5.5, Revit and AutoCAD (so some of both in OS X and Windows). In our experience getting a similar workstation from Dell wasn't a huge price difference. The nearest comparable would be a Dell T5500 at $3,000 with the same CPU configuration and closest graphics card, which was about $500 less.

What sold us was that this Mac Pro at high duty cycle (like rendering in Revit will be 100% on all 8 cores for tens of minutes) the computer fans move A LOT of air but it's barely audible under a desk. Plus the case itself is a huge aluminum heat sink, so the CPU temp stays quite comfortably low. I'm very impressed with the thing and made the Dell enclosure look like a tinker toy, a VERY, VERY loud, poorly conceived, plastic tinker toy. Adding hard drives in this case is literally a 10 second task, a few screws, no cables. The case is clearly conceived as a whole, the ducting, the air path, it's all part of the larger plan to make a legit workstation that keeps the CPU, GPU and HDDs all cool during high activity. In the mid range I think the Apple products are really are worth the premium, even running Windows it is in our view a better product.

I guess the iMac and Mac Book are priced noticeably higher than similar stuff. But we've had good luck with them over the years. My first Mac was a PowerMac 7100 (in 1994), which I sold for a PowerMac 9500 soon after (roughly 1996). We kept that until 2003 when I got a decent job and we bought a G4 20" iMac. That was replaced with this Mac in 2011. So we seem to get around 7 to 9 years from our Macs, which are replaced primarily because of technology obsolescence not failures. Plus in every case we've been able to actually sell a 7+ year old computer to someone for a couple of hundred dollars.

pramjockey
08-07-2011, 12:09 PM
Sorry, I should have said "for me as an individual." Yes, there are some powerful Macs, and they're significantly better since they've gotten onto the Intel platform. But, for me as an individual, they don't run the software that I want them to run, so I lean much more strongly towards a windows box.

The problem is also comparing Mac to Dell or Sony. For a desktop, IMHO, it makes much more sense to build your own machine - by skipping the Dell/Sony middleman you can save significant amounts of money and tune the machine to exactly what you want to do - and allow an easy upgrade path that extends the life of your machine significantly. MaximumPC (both magazine and .com) is an excellent resource for pulling maximum performance from PC hardware, and do regular articles on specialized builds in all sorts of price ranges.

Corbet
08-08-2011, 11:56 AM
Yes I do need a mobile platform either a laptop or tablet that I could remote to PC if needed. So I've considered an IMac/IPad combo.

I'm not a computer geek with the knowledge of building my own PC. If I wanted to devote the time I'm sure its not that hard, plus my neighbor is said geek. (I just don't want to spend the time myself) In addition to the price break on Sony, my computer guy recommended preferred Sony, HP and a couple more "over the counter" brands. He does not like Apple.

What I need to run to function: Email, Quickbooks, MS Office, Manage my website, etc... I'd also like to find an app/program that allow for a client to sign off on a ad proof digitally (IPad would be ideal for this). Trying to cut down on the paper.

What I want to run when $ allows: CS4 or better.

Personally I manage my photos, itunes, surf the web, etc... Nothing major there.

For those of you who don't know, I publish a direct mail coupon magazine. www.localdealsmagazine.com My graphic designer JT (Trapper50cal) currently does all the graphics work. But I should have the ability to as well, (emergency).

60wag
08-08-2011, 12:24 PM
One of the differences I still struggle with is backups. Mac Time Machine is beautiful. You turn it on and ignore it until you need it. I've never had a hard drive crash on a Mac but I have upgraded hard drives on several machines. I was able to swap hardware and reload the entire image of the old drive onto the new drive without giving it much thought. It just worked.

Windows, one the other hand, has been an ongoing PITA to create backups. I had a program that did ok until I installed a network available storage device. For some reason, the software can not use the device but for another $50 the vendor tells me the newer version "might" work. The backup software that comes with the storage device didn't work. Now I run Windows backup once in a while, cursing everytime because it can't find the settings I created last time. While I'm fighting with the Windows machine, Time Machine quietly runs in the background backing up several Macs to the same storage device, once or twice a day.

BTW, I run Windows XP on a Mac Mini for my wife. She prefers Windows due to software her company uses. I couldn't find a decent small platform Windows machine other than the all-in-one computers. I bought a used Mini on Ebay and set it up to dual boot either Mac or XP but that machine just runs XP all the time. It works great, well as great as XP can.

Corbet
08-08-2011, 12:30 PM
I should also add that our household is already over 50% Mac as Marianne runs her macbook and Ipad2 I only went back to a PC a year ago because of cost.

corsair23
08-08-2011, 03:36 PM
Get a Mac Corbet, you know you want to :) - sounds like a good fit all around for you

I wonder if one of the reason Macs seem to, or do, work so well and seamlessly is because you don't have a gazillion companies making software, hardware, etc. for them? I'm Mac illiterate but one of the downsides I recall was the lack of aftermarket programs, support, hardware, etc. Is that still the case and if so, IMO that means that Apple has a much better chance of ensuring stuff works seamlessly...

DaveInDenver
08-08-2011, 04:05 PM
one of the downsides I recall was the lack of aftermarket programs, support, hardware, etc.
To certain extent, yes, there are a lot fewer 3rd party applications and devices for Macs. The only major software difference is games, Windows has probably 100:1 the number of games. Otherwise the important categories are a coin toss. MS Office, Open Office, Internet, finances, music/movies/photo editing, etc. are cross platform.

There also exists a decently active shareware market for OS X. You just don't get a dozen versions of a shareware widget, rather one or two. This is one big benefit of the FreeBSD architecture of OS X, all the UN*X and Linux code is available to port over to Cocoa (Apple gives the developer API called Xcode away for free to develop native OS X applications). Apple also offers a X11 utility that allows any Xfree86- (or now X11R7-compatible) application run with only a new compile.

There are specialized things that simply do not exist on Mac, radio programming for example. That's not for a lack of demand but rather I think a small niche plus manufacturer's limited resources means they probably have one guy or a contractor write a programming tool and it's going to be for the 90% instead of the 10%. I don't fault them for that.

OTOH, Apple tends to be good in my experience with having built-in drivers for most things like cameras, scanners and printers. We've never had with OS X a device that required a driver be installed to work. Canon, Sony, Minolta, Nikon, etc. things all just show up and work without fuss. This is generally because of the very closed and limited aspect of their hardware, they don't have to support thousands of odd configurations and so they can devote time to accessories rather than supporting tons of different video cards, drive controllers and the like.

But for the majority of people for the majority of household stuff (other than cutting edge games) you can get what you need regardless of PC or Mac.

Corbet
08-08-2011, 04:22 PM
There also exists a decently active shareware market for OS X. You just don't get a dozen versions of a shareware widget, rather one or two. This is one big benefit of the FreeBSD architecture of OS X, all the UN*X and Linux code is available to port over to Cocoa (Apple gives the developer API called Xcode away for free to develop native OS X applications). Apple also offers a X11 utility that allows any Xfree86- (or now X11R7-compatible) application run with only a new compile.

As I read that right there it was like I was listening to Charlie Brown's teacher.

You did bring up a good point about radio programing. Not that I've ever programed my HAM in the 4+ years I've had it. I guess I just leave it on 146.460 and the weather broadcast on the other band. Maybe if a few of the Durango crew would step up to HAM I might geek out there a little bit more. I have a couple electronic devices in the house that Apple does not support well or at all. My dive computer, a helmet cam, & my HAM.

DaveInDenver
08-08-2011, 04:30 PM
As I read that right there it was like I was listening to Charlie Brown's teacher.
LOL! Just saying that even though Apple has a non-tech reputation, the operating system guts under their interface is plenty geek.

The radio stuff is a legitimate problem, which is why I have a really cheap Lenovo T60 laptop for ham stuff. Programming, digital modes, etc. They're all just tools, I tried (and was successful) getting VX-7R Commander running under an emulation to program my HT. But it was too much work, was slow and took a spaghetti of cables, just not worth it. In the case of ham tasks it also made sense to me to have a dedicated computer that didn't require multiple configurations. I can leave things set to work with ham protocols, like 1200 baud TNCs and 300 baud PSK-31, and not run out of ports compatible with higher speed cameras and what-not.

pmccumber
08-08-2011, 06:54 PM
Parallels, the Windows emulation for Macs is stunning. There is also VMWare for Macs but Parallels is much more acclaimed. So you could probably just use that for all these holes.

In the past, emulations used to basically run a simulation of a generic system and it was by nature slower because it was running multiple lines of code to run a single instruction of the generic system. Plus, it wasn't necessarily taking advantage of native hw.

Now, AMD and Intel have been working on virtualization for a decade plus and emulations run natively on the actual hardware and only trap to the the simulation on system operations. A non-native emulation of Windows on a Mac runs very close to what it would on a Windows host with the same hw. VMWare is a great company with tremendous background in virtualization and Apple trumped them with their own product. Apple is a great software company. Period. And that is what you're buying cuz the hw is the same as PCs.

In fact, many claim it runs better because under the hood it is still BSD Unix and it is more virus resilient, robust, and less resource needy.

But if it were me, I'd buy that T60 Dave bought (and I did) for $225 shipped with a docking station ;)

Nay
08-08-2011, 08:36 PM
I literally don't have the brain space with four kids to deal with figuring out how to integrate anything on my computer.

It's simple.

I browse with Safari. It works. With less risk and no cost of an aftermarket malware program.

I do email with Mail. It works.

I do photos with iPhoto. It works.

I do movies with iMovie for offroad trip clips and family clips. It works.

I do iTunes for music. It works.

I plug in my iPod. It syncs and everything above is available.

I turn on my Apple TV. Every above is available on the TV and stereo, plus Netflix, Internet Radio, and other easy to use apps.

I have never had to reinstall the OS or anything else because of performance issues. The "Windows Registry" now occupies exactly 0% of my brain space or time.

I don't do anything else. I don't have time.

I don't need another work computer, I get one of those for free.

Just like 4x4's and everything else, I say buy a machine that is designed for your needs. It makes an easy choice. Honestly, I'd suggest an iPad with accessory keyboard and skip the rest. I doubt I'll buy another "computer" for home.

Corbet
08-08-2011, 09:16 PM
Honestly, I'd suggest an iPad with accessory keyboard and skip the rest.

But will an IPad run Quickbooks? Connect to a printer?


All the reasons you listed are why I like the Mac. I don't have the time either.

Nay
08-08-2011, 10:13 PM
But will an IPad run Quickbooks? Connect to a printer?


All the reasons you listed are why I like the Mac. I don't have the time either.

I am seeing a lot of the high level corporate execs just using tablets now (iPad, etc.). Hell, my Cisco global account manager is using an iPad in presentation meetings. I'd guess you can print given the rest of it, but I don't honestly know.

It's always the personal finance or business software that gets you. I held on to an old Dell for years just for Quicken, and now I put up with Quicken Essentials for Mac because I go so sick of keeping a Windows laptop on life support.

It's about gotten to the point that Inuit's crappy Mac applications are keeping Windows alive.

It's a worthwhile consideration, but one I suspect the Verizon store or whatever phone store you have local could answer. I figure I could run half my life off of my iPod, so it's only a matter of time and iPad dominates the tablet market because while people needed a phone and hated AT&T (hence, Android), people don't need a tablet and Apple owns that market due to early adoption and, of course, easy integration....

I think Apple is the best global Product Development company in existence today. That's why Ige has an iPhone and a Windows computer :D

:cheers:

pmccumber
08-09-2011, 08:34 AM
I think Apple is the best global Product Development company in existence today. That's why Ige has an iPhone and a Windows computer :D

:cheers:

Not just that, they develop markets. The iPod and the iPhone are classic examples.

For over 10 years Europe and Asia had 3G and it just wasn't happening here. The telecom world was mystified. Nokia had given up selling phones in America because there wasn't enough margin (they sold 75 million N90s in China alone in 2007 at north of $600 per). But alongs comes the iPhone and that was the inertia the providers and manufacturers needed. Apple's cachet and landmark product dragged North America into the 1990s.

And there were plenty of MP3 players before the iPod. But it took Apple to create an ecosystem complete with mindless software and negotiate content delivery with studios and labels for the whole market to realize its potential. Don't trivialize that; the labels needed somebody with Apple's competence and power to hitch their wagons to AND indemnify the process to protect all the IP.

RedCreeper
08-09-2011, 12:49 PM
i dont see why you couldnt print with an iPad if your network is wireless and you get the WiFi. I have been looking at these also.

BreckBJ44
08-10-2011, 12:44 PM
From what it sounds like Corbet, you should get a Mac, but I'd say wait until the newest version has had the bugs worked out (yes they have bugs even though the marketing machine tells you differently). Plan to spend more than on a comparable PC, but if ease is what you want, that is what you will get.

I am a die hard PC guy due to my needs, but I still recognize that Macs serve a market and do it very well. Heck I suggested my Mom get an iPhone as her bridge into the smartphone world.

Unless you want to use non-standard software, or try to do things outside of the realm of what mac makes (the complete line of iSoftware that they control), then the mac will work for you.

My non-technical reasons for not using mac are centered around the proprietary nature of Mac (which is the primary hypocritical reason they don't allow Flash to run on their mobile platforms - go figure). If you need anything for your mac that is not a case or a cheap screen protector, you will only have one choice of who to get it from... and it will never be on sale. Not one PC company makes the money that Mac does on their products because there are a TON of PC companies, which leads to better development (internal competition does this). Mac is about design and filling that design with average/standard parts. I work in design so I love the design of macs, I just can't get them to come anywhere close to what I need them to do for the price/hassle. Oh, and lastly, if I wanted to emulate a PC on my mac... i'd just get a PC and save a step... Not really sure what the advantage of emulation really is if one system could run all of your stuff by itself on another platform...

</rant>

Groucho
08-10-2011, 02:35 PM
I have a MacPro with 2 x 2.26 GHz 8 Cores and upgraded to the ATI Radeon HD 4870 graphics as well as started off with 12GB of RAM. I left the one bay at the 650GB HDD and installed Windows into #2 on a 1TB HDD. I use Solidworks while running windows on BootCamp with the second HDD and have never had the problems I do at work with a PC. The way things "just work" sold me.

Get a Mac. Listen to JT.

I love the ease that things are expandable. 5 minutes and the new HDD was in and running. Time machine is also a great tool.

I dunno, we have a 2 x 2.4GHz quad core (8 total cores), 12GB (DDR3 1066MHz), ATI 5770 Mac Pro that she uses for CS5.5, Revit and AutoCAD (so some of both in OS X and Windows). In our experience getting a similar workstation from Dell wasn't a huge price difference. The nearest comparable would be a Dell T5500 at $3,000 with the same CPU configuration and closest graphics card, which was about $500 less.

What sold us was that this Mac Pro at high duty cycle (like rendering in Revit will be 100% on all 8 cores for tens of minutes) the computer fans move A LOT of air but it's barely audible under a desk. Plus the case itself is a huge aluminum heat sink, so the CPU temp stays quite comfortably low. I'm very impressed with the thing and made the Dell enclosure look like a tinker toy, a VERY, VERY loud, poorly conceived, plastic tinker toy. Adding hard drives in this case is literally a 10 second task, a few screws, no cables. The case is clearly conceived as a whole, the ducting, the air path, it's all part of the larger plan to make a legit workstation that keeps the CPU, GPU and HDDs all cool during high activity. In the mid range I think the Apple products are really are worth the premium, even running Windows it is in our view a better product.



Sounds like very similar experiences when presented with the same purchase choices. We were looking at bigger PC workstations for our Solidworks seats at work, and they priced out nearly identical to what I paid for my Mac Pro.

Nay
08-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Apple just became the most valuable company in the world, passing Exxon Mobile. Doesn't mean you should buy their hardware, but it does mean you are going to continue to see the power in Apple driving of content centric markets down to their integrated hardware devices. Which is why I think you choose Apple for content or not, rather than as a hardware comparison to Windows machines, and then the hardware choice for you should be obvious.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44090899/ns/business-us_business/#.TkLxas1pEno

Hulk
08-12-2011, 12:56 AM
Corbet, one thing that you may want to consider is that (unless things have very recently changed) the Mac version of QuickBooks is a very different version of the PC version of QuickBooks that you are used to. There may also be issues importing the data across the two platforms. You might want to look into this and see if it's still as much of an issue as it was several years ago.

I have a 6-month old Dell and a 3-year old MacBook Pro. The Dell is a great computer, but I simply enjoy using the Mac more, especially when traveling.

Corbet
08-16-2011, 11:54 AM
Matt, I have read that there are some differences with the Mac quickbooks and generally people think it sucks. I don't use quickbooks for much other than to generate invoices and track my business checking. I could change over to a different software program but probably not worth the effort.

Anyone here use quickbooks for Mac?

MountainGoat
08-16-2011, 01:10 PM
Being an accountant I use QB on PCs alot. Last time I used it on a Mac was about 5 years ago when I had a client who only ran Macs. Compared to the PC version, the Mac version was a poor substitute. You couldn't even get a payroll module on the Mac version. That said, if you are really only using QB to create invoices and track your checking account, it will probably fill your need.

The more recent versions for Mac may be better, I have no idea. If you are currently running QB on a PC you may want to find out if you can convert your database over. If not you will have to start from scratch and lose your history.

I love the feel of Macs. My iPhone frickin rocks. The cost of the hardware and the lack of quality business software drove me away from Apple computers years ago. I would love to see that change, but my perception is that it really hasn't yet. I run $400 Toshiba laptops for literally years with no problems (unless I drop them). :hill:

Corbet
08-16-2011, 02:27 PM
payroll is a non issue. as is a POS system. I just need to account for money going in and out of the business checking. No employee's. Just some 1099 contract labor.

Corbet
09-13-2011, 10:01 AM
I bit the bullet and ordered a Macbook Pro last night.

Still need to get Quickbooks for Mac. Looks like the 2012 version will be available at the end of the month so I'm going to wait for that. Hopefully it will have address the complaints I've seen online.

RedCreeper
09-13-2011, 10:38 AM
Welcome to the DARK side.

Hulk
09-14-2011, 01:29 AM
You'll love it. Congrats on the purchase.

Red_Chili
09-14-2011, 09:25 AM
Well, this thread led me to a stunningly simple and wise critique:
http://xkcd.com/936/

Sometimes security gets propelled by its own inertia into a place that makes no sense... LOL

Oh, yeah, computers... I dunno, I've been very successful buying good computers that are used from companies with service plans. Last one was a Dell, it had issues but was completely refreshed for free by Dell because it came with a Gold plan. This one is an HP engineering workstation that came used from Lockheed Martin via Tom. I bought a second monitor. I put in a fresh larger C:\ OS drive and kept the old one as a D:\ with all my docs etc. It has its own restore program. It friggin rocks. It's fast, it's stable, and the only issue was solved by a true sine wave UPS (darn wet tree interrupted a conference call last week :lmao:).

I cannot remember the last time I had a virus. Serious. Maybe a decade ago? I use AVG free.

I bought a Dell laptop from Newegg for $400. Windows 7 rocks. So far I am very happy with it. I remote in to work using RDP on the bus tethering my Droid and it works very well (except for the 1G speeds on Broadway... go figger, it works better in Turkey Creek Canyon, what's up with THAT?).

They are fine computers and perfect for many people, but Mac just doesn't work for me and my needs. You guys have time for TV? Really? :hill:

Use the tool that fits the need. I take religion seriously but it doesn't affect my choice of tools (except in the philosophical sense of the aesthetic of a fine tool... but I don't turn it into a shrine). It's a tool! It will fail in time, and become obsolete, as tools always do.

The hammer, perhaps, excepted... :cool: http://freeemoticonsandsmileys.com/emoticons/Mood%20Emoticons/hammer.gif
:lmao:

Nay
09-14-2011, 10:20 AM
Windows 7 rocks.

Windows 8 is apparently going to try to be more Apple than Apple. Sounds perfect for people who can spend the requisite time required for a romantic affair with a laptop. :hill:

Corbet
09-19-2011, 07:28 PM
This is the first post from the new MacBook Pro. :D Its going to take while to adjust back to the single keyed touch pad.

Hulk
09-20-2011, 08:56 AM
This is the first post from the new MacBook Pro. :D Its going to take while to adjust back to the single keyed touch pad.

Have you experimented with the multiple finger gestures? Scrolling with two fingers is awesome.

Corbet
09-20-2011, 09:25 AM
Have you experimented with the multiple finger gestures? Scrolling with two fingers is awesome.

yah, I'm checked out on that. Marianne and I have had a MacBook for years but its been more her computer than mine. Its just adjusting back over again. I do like the new touch pad key being the whole touch pad its self.:)

nakman
01-10-2012, 10:51 PM
So I was told I could get a new work computer today. currently run a Dell that is really huge.. was great when I did a lot of database stuff but it's no fun on airplanes, can only open it when I sit in the extended legroom areas. Plus it's heavy, getting slower, battery is weak...

I keep looking at those Macbook Airs on planes. They look fast, light, easy.. but I don't know anything about mac OS. Maybe I'll go waste some kid's time at BestBuy to get up to speed..

Corbet
01-10-2012, 11:30 PM
Tim, I'm not positive but I believe the MacBook Air runs the same operating system as the iPad and iPhone. So it cold be somewhat limiting on your software. I got the 13" MacBook Pro and have been very happy. It would be fine on a plane.

84cruzer
01-10-2012, 11:40 PM
The Mac Book Air is offered with the OSX Lion Operating System

Jacket
01-10-2012, 11:52 PM
This is the Macbook Air I just picked up for the office.

https://www.insight.com/search/ppp.web?fromSearch=true&fromIB=&materialId=MC965LL%2FA

The size and weight difference alone is staggering when compared with the Dell's. Haven't played with it too much yet but the processing speed is noticeably better. My only complaint so far is that I can't plug it into a network cable - only wireless. It's fine most of the time, but our wired internet at the office is quite a bit faster than wireless.

corsair23
01-11-2012, 01:45 AM
Maybe I'll go waste some kid's time at BestBuy to get up to speed..

Skip Best Buy and go straight to the Apple Store...Make an appointment though because everytime I've been in one whether it is early morning, mid-afternoon, or early evening the place is packed. I'd swear that a lot of Apple product owners don't have jobs and just go hang out at Apple Stores like it was Cheers or something :hill:

nakman
01-11-2012, 10:02 AM
Skip Best Buy and go straight to the Apple Store...Make an appointment though because everytime I've been in one whether it is early morning, mid-afternoon, or early evening the place is packed. I'd swear that a lot of Apple product owners don't have jobs and just go hang out at Apple Stores like it was Cheers or something :hill:

Yeah good point, but I also want to see what's new with PC's.. Shirley there has to be a new sleek lightweight thing from HP or Dell right?

As for Mac.. IOS would be a deal killer for sure, I need flash.. so ok, sounds like a non-issue? Not being able to plug into a network also sounds like a bummer, huh... some hotels let you plug in in the room for free, but charge for WiFi. And our access points aren't the most rock solid at the office there are dead spots, like in our conference room in MN. shoot that may rule out the Air.. :blah:

MountainGoat
01-11-2012, 11:22 AM
... My only complaint so far is that I can't plug it into a network cable - only wireless. ...

Surely they have USB ports?!?! :hill:

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/mountaingoat/general/adapter.JPG

84cruzer
01-11-2012, 11:34 AM
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC704ZM/A

Jacket
01-11-2012, 05:38 PM
I didn't imply there wasn't a solution to the problem - just an observation of the limitations out of the box.

MountainGoat
01-11-2012, 05:40 PM
On retrospect my post sounded a little smartass. Wasn't intended that way. :D

powderpig
01-11-2012, 06:34 PM
Robin was looking at the air for her next upgrade. She just did not like the fact that the Air did not have any DVD drive or such. Yes there is a solution for this as well, but it was one more thing to carry around instead of all in one.
the 13 inch pro is a great unit, no dedicated video processor, but most will not use that unless you are gaming or using graphic software.
Anyhow I am sticking to my MBP 15in for now. I like it and I feel that it is not too heavy or slow.