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View Full Version : 7th Annual Father's Day Run


Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:02 PM
It was an excellent run this year! We had an early start, nobody broke anything, everyone had a good time. The weather was beautiful as usual, and it was wonderful being at 11,000 feet instead of the sweltering heat of the flatlands. What better way to spend Father's Day!

We had ten rigs total, just about a perfect sized group. Matt Miller and his dad Tim in his FJ40, Bill Morgan and his wife in his runner, a fellow named Doug in a taco, Farnham and his family in his UZJ100, Farnham's friend and our newest Rising Sun member Brent Gehrman in his taco, Ken Romer in his LX450, Rachel in her runner, Matt Lewis in his runner, and Yuri, Oleg and family in Yuri's frankenrunner. They took a 1st gen body (for the open top) and put it on a 3rd gen chassis. It did well! Of course I was in my FJ40, and no, I didn't have time to stick the freshened engine and 4 speed tranny in before the run, as the last of the parts didn't arrive until Friday.

We totally skipped the first obstacle, I guess after the rollover last year some folks were kinda spooked. That's okay, we had fun anyway. Below is where we stopped for a few minutes a little ways up from the first obstacle.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:06 PM
Since I was leading,, I didn't take a whole lot of photos, kind of busy spotting people. The rocky hill below was troublesome for a number of people, including Matt Miller. Right after I took this shot, he whacked his driver's side springs on that rock really hard, but it didn't hurt anything. Everyone ended up with some pretty good steel-on-rock moments here and at a couple other places. Doug in the Taco below Matt had some trouble here too. I didn't photograph it, but Farnham had a heck of a time getting that big 100 over this, but he finally did once he used enough skinny pedal.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:12 PM
I just realized the photo of Doug and his taco is at the base of the rock garden, at the entrance to the bypass. There is one section of the bypass that was impassable for him and Farnham, where it squeezes between those two trees. The dirt is really dug out and they were just spinning out and digging their tires in deeper. I found them a line where they could turn left into the main garden but avoid a couple of boulders, then make a hard right back to the bypass. Below, Yuri's frankenrunner goes up the main rock garden. It was fun to listen to Oleg spot Yuri in Russian!

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:18 PM
Below, Ken Romer and ROD (Sarah) calmly cruise between the two trees in the bypass. It did take him a couple tries to get the wagon lined up right, it's a tight squeeze. Speaking of trees, look carefully on the left part of the photo at his fender. The tree at the base of the rocky hill climb did that. I feel bad because I was spotting him at the time, but he did slide about a foot and a half sideways into the tree. He said it looks like Oleg will be getting some money to feed his dogs :-)

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:20 PM
Rachel just drove her runner right up, no trouble at all for her.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:22 PM
Farnham in that big 100. He had his 40 on the run last year and drove up the garden. The wagon proved to be a lot more difficult on this trail.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:25 PM
Bill Morgan actually got the Red Chili stuck here! He did get it out, but at one point it was nothing doing either forward or reverse.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:26 PM
More Red Chili in the garden.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:29 PM
Dear reader, what's wrong with what you see in the photo below? Bear in mind this is Bill Morgan =-O

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:31 PM
After a few moments, we got the people off his runner, hooked a strap from Yuri's runner to Bill's and got him stabilized. As much articulation as Bill's runner has, if he's doing a tripod you KNOW he was close to flopping!

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:32 PM
Bill exits the garden, still strapped.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:36 PM
The garden itself was about the same as last year, which wasn't as bad as some previous years. The bypass was more difficult due to the dug out spot between the two trees. The section above the rock garden was a lot more difficult than I have ever seen it, and I could hear on the radio behind me where a few people needed a spot here and there. Below, you can see Matt Miller and Matt Lewis coming up part of that section. There was one spot there where I swear I saw air under all four of his tires!

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:39 PM
Yuri makes it out just before the last switchback before the meadow at the top. Oleg was telling me that they just finished that rig about nine o'clock last night. Skid plate, rear bumper, front and rear receivers for a receiver-mounted winch, and the receiver plate to mount the winch to. As always, they do superb work! Of course since they finished so late, they didn't have time to paint the bumper and belly armor.

Rzeppa
06-18-2006, 07:43 PM
As always, the views at the top meadow were spectacular! We came back down the Georgetown side, and as usual I-70 was a parking lot. Bill and I took the frontage road, but even that became congested. As usual it loosened up around Idaho Springs, but it still took about an hour to get home from Georgetown. A wonderful Father's Day run!

subzali
06-18-2006, 09:36 PM
Thanks again Jeff for the lead! We had a great day, I was way impressed with how the 40 handled with the Lockright and MT/Rs! There was a lot of belly dragging (mainly front/rear diffs and springs) and a liberal use of the skinny pedal, but we all made it through! Like you said it was a great way to spend Father's Day!

I feel a little guilty about being involved with the jumping on the Chili to prevent a rollover, but I understand it's pretty much been a bad karma thing to do after the incident last year. But just a question that I think should be discussed before trail runs/driver's meetings etc. is what to do before an impending rollover and no strap is available to make a quick recovery? Do we need to be more prepared and have a strap out and attached when such a maneuver is likely? I'd like to see some discussion about this since it's been so common for people to jump on a truck on its way over that now that that's a no-no I think we should be prepared with another alternative in mind. Thoughts anybody?

Romer
06-18-2006, 10:23 PM
Best Fathers Day I can remember. Not upset about the ding in my fender, If those things bothered me, I shouldn't wheel it.

Here is a shot of Yuri and Oleg driving "Red Chili Eater" Olegs name for it.

Rachel kissing the same tree I did, who spotted Rachel? She has a few scrapes on the door, but no dent.

Red Chile in the Rock Garden

Romer
06-18-2006, 10:55 PM
Rachel let Sarah drive her 4runner from after the rock garden all the way down. Here I am spotting her through some stuff

Romer
06-18-2006, 10:59 PM
The view from the meadow and me and my girls on fathers day

Rzeppa
06-19-2006, 09:00 AM
I feel a little guilty about being involved with the jumping on the Chili to prevent a rollover, but I understand it's pretty much been a bad karma thing to do after the incident last year. But just a question that I think should be discussed before trail runs/driver's meetings etc. is what to do before an impending rollover and no strap is available to make a quick recovery? Do we need to be more prepared and have a strap out and attached when such a maneuver is likely? I'd like to see some discussion about this since it's been so common for people to jump on a truck on its way over that now that that's a no-no I think we should be prepared with another alternative in mind. Thoughts anybody?There are a number of trails where a pre-strapping before a particular obstacle is obvious. Widow Maker on Metal Masher comes to mind. But Bill just took an odd line, I'm sure he wasn't expecting to do a wheel stand any more than we were. Actually, I've never seen anyone do that through that section. I even got a little tippy when I was trying to manuever behind Yuri as we were preparing to leave the garden. I just put it in reverse and went a different way.

You may recall I had to cut the driver's meeting short due to that lady trying to get past our line of rigs where we aired down. But there are ALWAYS straps available. A strap is just one of those essential pieces of equipment everyone should carry, and most of us always do. But like breakage, there is the potential for a flop on just about any trail, heck think of what happened to Yuri on that one section of easy trail. A moment of inattention and he was almost off the trail. Our hobby is inherently risky and we have to always be paying attention and think about the risks.

Romer
06-19-2006, 09:26 AM
I think we acted appropriately and don't see an issue with Jumping on Bills truck until we had it secured with a strap. The accidents happen when the driver tries to move while people are on it, that is the no-no.

That was a little scary with Yuri. Gave me a chance to use my winch. Yuri had edged his diver side tires off the road and was leaning in a dangerous position with a very steep embankment. We used my winch, a snatchblock and a sturdy tree to pull him back on the road. He redeemed himself in the rock garden later on.

Rzeppa
06-19-2006, 09:38 AM
The accidents happen when the driver tries to move while people are on it, that is the no-no.That is a most excellent point Ken! In fact, something that we should always stress during any driver's meeting is to STAY AWAY FROM ANY MOVING VEHICLE! Rigs can slip sideways unexpectedly, they can lurch, and rocks and debris can get shot back from under the tires. There was an instance at Moab where I was spotting a lady and she slid sideways and got tippy. I suddenly realized I was on the downhill side of a potential flop and ran like hell!

Red_Chili
06-19-2006, 12:30 PM
I think we acted appropriately and don't see an issue with Jumping on Bills truck until we had it secured with a strap. The accidents happen when the driver tries to move while people are on it, that is the no-no.
Jeff beat me to it on the comment. Yep, what everyone did was perfect, I gotta tell ya it felt soooooo much better just to feel that truck move away from the pivot point. As I review the pix, I feel a little silly, as a wheelstand ain't no thang. But it did NOT feel good to be right at the pivot point, per the butt gauge, and the inclinometer over 30*, and all said, I was in no mind to risk the Chili. Flopping does not fit my definition of fun. I probably could have turned into it and stopped but still... just don't wanna go there. $$$, if not in addition to injury.

As Oleg was instructing me though, one more foot forward and the right front probably would have come down.
Unless a tire slipped on those dusty rocks... Oleg was patient with my fear factor moment.

One more rule of thumb: make a comment to all drivers that THEY (and secondarily the spotter) are in charge. That is, the driver is primarily responsible to ensure no one is on the rig before it moves. That's why I yelled, "CLEAR!! Truck moving!" and did a visual before I moved.

Great run! Even my wife had a great time. Doug (11thCav) it was great to have you there, look forward to seeing you at a meeting!

BTW- I should have said it during the day- THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY.

Rzeppa
06-19-2006, 10:06 PM
Great run! Even my wife had a great time.As I showed the photos to Linda, she asked that I take her on this trail, she really liked the photos from the meadow at the top. Since she's afraid of heights (shelf road going down to G-Town), I think Bill Moore might be a better choice.

Red_Chili
06-20-2006, 07:56 AM
I won't tell her about the shelf road going to Bill Moore if you don't...

Rzeppa
06-20-2006, 08:04 AM
I won't tell her about the shelf road going to Bill Moore if you don't...
ooooops I forgot about that. It's been a while since I've done that trail; I don't recall that it's quite as much of a drop off?

wesintl
06-20-2006, 10:44 AM
Jeff beat me to it on the comment. Yep, what everyone did was perfect

I respectfully disagree. There is no reason to be on a truck PERIOD. Accidents happen at anytime. Not just when your moving. Your foot can slip off the brake, another person jumping on the truck can shift the weight, someone can slip off the truck, jumping off someone can twist and ankle, loose footing and hit their head, etc. All when it's stopped.

I'm suprised you let this occur Bill. Another accident will happen if we let this continue. A strap is the only answer.

my. 02

Sorry to hyjack the report Jeff. It looked like another sucessful spring creek run. :)

Rzeppa
06-20-2006, 10:57 AM
Sorry to hyjack the report Jeff. It looked like another sucessful spring creek run. :)No worries mate, not much of a hijack, it's in context of what happened on this particular run. I tend to agree with you, it would have been safer if everyone had simply stayed away from the rig. Bill, strapped inside is going to be in a safer place than anyone on or near the truck outside.

When it actually happened I was too far away to even hollar at people, had gone back to my rig to fetch my lunch. When I snapped the photo I was literally on the run heading back to the garden. By the time I got there, Oleg had gotten out a strap and he and Yuri had stabilized Bill's rig.

I would like to see some more photos though...Matt Miller, did you and your dad get any good ones?

Red_Chili
06-20-2006, 11:19 AM
I'm suprised you let this occur Bill. Another accident will happen if we let this continue. A strap is the only answer.

my. 02
I let it occur as a stopgap until the strap could be placed.

For such a situation I would not imagine it fits a 'if we let this continue' level of intervention into a dangerous, foolhardy situation; comparable to, say, drinking on the trail, firing weapons, reckless endangerment, driving off marked trails, etc. At least I would hope our club runs would not become that, um.... well-regulated.

FWIW, another accident will happen if we let 4x4ing continue- it is a recreational activity with danger involved which can be minimized, but not eliminated (note my avatar- if I want to be truly safe, shame on me for doing that). Every situation has clear black-and-white issues, and gray areas. IMHO, moving with people on the truck is never OK. People counterbalancing (up to but NOT including the truck actually starting to roll, and certainly not including being on the downhill side) is a gray area and it just depends.

Last year's run on Hole in the Rock, for instance, included a very well-built Toy pickup who dropped a wheel off the side and was balancing on two wheels. He was freaking out, with good reason. I reached up (standing on the uphill side of course), pulled his bumper down with minimal effort (one hand, if that gives you some idea of his 'tippiness'), and he regained enough composure to slowly back out. I would do it again; I would not leave him in that situation while I hiked back to the truck to get a strap. Composure can lead to better judgement.

Sometimes doing nothing is as dangerous as doing something. You picks yer dangers.

subzali
06-20-2006, 06:39 PM
I brought my camera but for some reason didn't really feel like taking many pictures this time. My dad took some but I haven't seen them yet; I'll post them up once I get them. Some of them look exactly like a couple you already posted.

Romer
06-20-2006, 07:11 PM
Wes, based on being right there and seeing his rig, it was the right thing to do. In some situations doing that would be wrong and others it would be right. It's hard to tell from the pictures. We first got on the drivers side and pushed up to keep it from tipping and made sure it was stable and not going anywhere, then a couple of people jumped on the other side. I personally think we would have been OK with the pushing from the drivers side by itself, but I don't think those who jumped on where in danger. Bill was getting nervous and I still feel we made the right call based on the position and stability of the vehicle. I agree it is in the grey area.

gcmandrake
06-20-2006, 10:56 PM
Some photos. Trying to get the hang of iPhoto, Photoshop Elements, on the Mac.

Matt

Red_Chili
06-21-2006, 07:52 AM
Cool pic, Matt, good composition. Thanks for sharing (and allowing me to steal it for my desktop).

Rzeppa
06-21-2006, 08:49 AM
No kidding, VERY nice composition. I must have clicked at almost the same moment, but from the left rear. Nice driving too ;-)

Red_Chili
06-21-2006, 11:33 AM
... Nice driving too ;-) Uh.. Well, you are being generous. That was right before I picked the line that led to me being tippy which led to jungle-gym climbing which led to controversy which led to....
DOH!:homer:

gcmandrake
06-21-2006, 11:21 PM
Bill,

I have a couple of more shots, if you'd like the full res pics.

Matt

11thcavdrt
06-22-2006, 12:17 AM
This is obiviously a tough question and situation if you are the person behind
the wheel. acting to quickly could obiviously create problems for those trying
to help,not acting quickly enough,well thats obivious! so i have to agree with
bill morgan/red chili on this one, its really a judgement call on all involved,i
dont think you can make it a hard fast rule not to come to some one's aid!like
bill stated about the situation last yr. with a guy in a taco who had slipped 2
wheels off,his quick action proably saved that guy,so where do you go from
here?

Doug Tebbe
96 Tacoma,arb r/locker,4 real steel sliders,pro comp 4" lift

Red_Chili
06-22-2006, 07:50 AM
Regards the pickup last year, it certainly saved his interior!
(if you take my meaning...)
Good to hear from ya, Doug- look forward to more runs, and you should come to a meeting sometime! First Weds of every month at Stevinson Toyota in Golden.

Red_Chili
06-22-2006, 07:51 AM
Bill,

I have a couple of more shots, if you'd like the full res pics.

Matt
PM sent

subzali
06-23-2006, 12:51 AM
Good to see ya Doug here on the forum! Glad you made it to the meeting earlier this month so we could help ya find guys to wheel with! Anyway here's some pics I just got from my dad:

subzali
06-23-2006, 12:52 AM
more 3

subzali
06-23-2006, 12:53 AM
last 3 for tonight

Rzeppa
06-28-2006, 08:44 PM
Matt Miller sent me a few more this evening, I resized them to post. These are at the bottom of the rock hill. It looks like I'm about to run Matt Lewis down, but he jumped out of the way in time ;-)

Rzeppa
06-28-2006, 08:45 PM
I *think* this was in the vicinity of the rock garden.

Rzeppa
06-28-2006, 08:46 PM
And here's another shot of Bill getting tipsy, er, tippy ;-)

Rzeppa
06-28-2006, 08:48 PM
A couple of the meadow at the top.

Rzeppa
06-28-2006, 08:49 PM
Finally, a shot of the shelf road going back down into G-Town. Don't show this to Linda, she'll never go on this trail. She's afraid of heights!

subzali
06-29-2006, 01:01 AM
couple more that I got from my dad...and yes Jeff that is at the turn to go on the bypass to the rock garden. And don't forget the Chili Eater! :D

Red_Chili
06-30-2006, 03:38 PM
And here's another shot of Bill getting tipsy, er, tippy ;-)
Aw, you just posted that so I didn't feel like such a moron for feeling tipsy, er, tippy...

I guess I did have good reason...

Rzeppa
06-30-2006, 06:51 PM
Aw, you just posted that so I didn't feel like such a moron for feeling tipsy, er, tippy...

I guess I did have good reason...Here's the thing. I was where Oleg was in this photo, at Cruise Moab when someone did about the same thing. I ran like heck away from the down side and around to the above side, then gave instructions on how she should go about getting out of her tripod.

After surveying the situation, my spotting was "put it in reverse while you still have your foot on the brake, then ease off the brake and ease backwards about six inches." She did, the wheel came down and then she was able to to correct her line.

Spotting can be more harzardous than driving. Two thngs come to mind as advice: (1) Stay away from any vehicle that is moving (2) Stay away from the downhill side of any vehicle that is being tippy, whether moving or not.

bh4rnnr
06-30-2006, 09:33 PM
Just think, it could have been a lot worse for you guys (http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=68530) :rolleyes:

Red_Chili
07-03-2006, 12:28 PM
Boy, no kidding!

FWIW, I went up with Mark Bailey (ScaldedDog, who owns the nice silver 4Runner originally SASed by Scott Wilson, one of the early SASes, and that now sits on Diamond full width axles and 38s) and a friend of his, Ken, in a TJ last Saturday very early. I wasn't gonna do the wall (first obstacle), but before I knew it Ken had led us to its base.

Oh well.

That thing is way different than it used to be, erosion will pretty much slow down now as it is down to rock in lots of places. The line now zags right against the tree stump (you know, where there used to be a tree before some bonehead cut it down a few years ago??? :rant: ). You'd better have some lean tolerance, or very low gears, or both.... I have the latter at least. It wasn't so bad, but Ken in the TJ had some serious spooky bounce and we ended up winching him - I can certainly see why the XJ flopped there. I cut a finger on some of the glass shards from that 4Runner in the Colo4x4 thread- not too bad though.

Mark walked right up it.

The tippy obstacle from Father's Day was now impassible for me. A boulder shifted, that's it.

Good day all in all, finally got moisture happening in the mountains...