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Snowrun
08-31-2011, 05:46 PM
So here is the readout. I have a long list of things to check Treeroot recommended today that may help with isolating the issue.
1. Checking the throttle position sensor.
2. 02 sensors
3. ECT (engine coolant temp) sensor.
4. Temps on the cats

If figured while I was in there I might as well ask for anymore suggestions of things I should check.

The truck is a 94 fzj 80 here are the particulars.
1. New O2 sensors 8 months
2. New head gasket (OEM) 1.5 years ago.
3. Valves all adjusted a few months back
4. Oil change that morning with mobile one 5w30 synthetic
5. Drove for 50 miles on the highway before going to the test station
6. Ran 87 octane gas
7. Ran a bottle of Lucas deep clean fuel system through on the prior tank.
8. I am currently running 33 inch Toyos
9. Recently washed the air filter

Anything to add to the test list or suggestions would be appreciated. I have been reading through all of the historical threads and I am pretty convinced it is cats, however you guys might see something different in the data.


Thanks:thumb::wrench:

nuclearlemon
08-31-2011, 08:30 PM
do people not listen to me....2 bottles of heet on a half a tank of fuel.:blah::blah::blah:

i was high on the same thing the first time and it was the only time i've ever gone through emissions without using heet.;)

of course, i was a heck of a lot closer on the ranges.

Snowrun
08-31-2011, 09:15 PM
Red or yellow?

treerootCO
08-31-2011, 10:06 PM
Red...I thought we discussed this? :hill:

You also swapped the charcoal canister

When I go to the emissions place, I over inflate the tires for less rolling resistance, change the oil, install new air filter, time the engine to spec, make sure all electrical devices are off for them to test, open all windows and sunroof(they don't throttle it as much if they can hear the engine/tires), drive a minimum of 50 miles on a new tank of gas, empty out the rear drawers, remove the spare tire, and add two bottles of Heet (Red bottle) to the tank. I also have a new gas cap sitting on the shelf because that really burns me when I pass and they fail me on the cap.

Snowrun
08-31-2011, 11:27 PM
Red...I thought we discussed this? :hill:


Some people like ketchup on a hot dog and some people like mustard. I thought may be you didn't like mustard.

:D

Snowrun
09-02-2011, 02:06 AM
Well I started the list of tests and so far I have three failures. The EGR VSV was stuck closed and the impedance was at 64 ohms instead of the 30-34 range the FSM recommends. Also the EGR vacuum modulator was not functional at all. The diaphragm will not move, of course it also failed the FSM tests. Then last and hopefully the final failure was a crunchy hose that went from a T junction into the intake manifold had a number of cracks that rendered it useless.
I should have it put back together in the AM and tested by the end of the day.
Wish me luck.

treerootCO
09-02-2011, 08:14 AM
Let me know if you need any help. If you have the clamshell off, test the voltage on the ECT. I would also check the TPS to make sure it is within spec. We still need to determine why your engine runs so hot as well. Did you want to redo your fan clutch? We can run the Robby test on it to see if it moves any air.

Jacket
09-02-2011, 09:10 AM
I also have a new gas cap sitting on the shelf because that really burns me when I pass and they fail me on the cap.

Yea - that happened to me last time with the 80. I passed all the emissions tests, and then he decided my gas cap wasn't sealing. Sucks to have to go back through the whole process for a stinkin' gas cap....

wesintl
09-02-2011, 10:31 AM
last time I got the renewal in the mail and I passed the roadside tests. Now I have to take it in this month. Not looking forward to it.

Snowrun
09-02-2011, 01:31 PM
Well it failed again. :mad: (yes i used 2 bottles of red HEET). Also checked the timing and it was at 3degrees with the paper clip in.
So it looks like the VSV and vacuum module had the most effect on HC.
Being that the 94 has parallel CATS what are the thoughts on swapping out just one CAT? Also I noticed on this print out the printer shifted the red line to the left a bit.
(I will probably swap out the other after my next payday)

BTW I really like the testing station in Dacono. It has two four wheel drive lanes and the frontage road right up to the front of the building is 55 mph so you can keep your CATS hot.

subzali
09-02-2011, 01:53 PM
wow, you're so close.

New spark plugs/cap/rotor?

Snowrun
09-02-2011, 01:58 PM
wow, you're so close.

New spark plugs/cap/rotor?

I did all three about a year and a half ago. I pulled it apart to clean the inside out and it still looks new inside.

rover67
09-02-2011, 02:18 PM
i might just throw more HEET in and try it again.....

treerootCO
09-02-2011, 02:28 PM
It looks to me like it missed twice. Once at 150 seconds into the test and another at 185 and that was enough to fail the test. We can see about cooling down your engine and maybe just run 91 octane to cover any detonation due to higher operating temps.

Snowrun
09-02-2011, 04:04 PM
It looks to me like it missed twice. Once at 150 seconds into the test and another at 185 and that was enough to fail the test. We can see about cooling down your engine and maybe just run 91 octane to cover any detonation due to higher operating temps.
Sounds like a plan. I went a head and ordered a CAT from Beno so can put that on the truck as well. Also next time I will probably use 3 or 4 bottles of Heet.
:thumb:

Uncle Ben
09-02-2011, 05:03 PM
Sounds like a plan. I went a head and ordered a CAT from Beno so can put that on the truck as well. Also next time I will probably use 3 or 4 bottles of Heet.
:thumb:

You bought a stock cat? That's like nearly double what you paid (stole) your Cruiser for isn't it?

Snowrun
09-02-2011, 09:25 PM
You bought a stock cat? That's like nearly double what you paid (stole) your Cruiser for isn't it?
:thumb: My tires actually cost me more than I paid for the whole rig.

wesintl
09-09-2011, 02:43 PM
I just got back from emissions testing on the 80. half tank of premium and two bottles of ketchup heet burned down to almost E. I think my numbers were half as low as they were 4 years ago. 2 years ago the road side tests were fine.

.88 HC
3.3 CO
.42 Nox

Sweeet! I passed.

Snowrun
09-09-2011, 03:02 PM
I just got back from emissions testing on the 80. half tank of premium and two bottles of ketchup heet burned down to almost E. I think my numbers were half as low as they were 4 years ago. 2 years ago the road side tests were fine.

.88 HC
3.3 CO
.42 Nox

Sweeet! I passed.
Congrats :thumb: It is good to see that another 80 will stay on the road.

I received a CAT in the mail yesterday from Beno and I can't decide to put it on the truck or wait until I get the second one next month..... I am worried about running one cat the flows freely and one that is most likely clogged up.

Bikeman
09-15-2011, 03:47 PM
I just had my LX tested, half tank of fresh gas and 1 bottle heat, passed well with 170K on stock cats.

Snowrun
09-15-2011, 03:59 PM
I just had my LX tested, half tank of fresh gas and 1 bottle heat, passed well with 170K on stock cats.
:thumb: I'm Jealous. The second CAT should be in next week. I am anxious to get this whole mess behind me.

Snowrun
09-25-2011, 02:04 PM
It finally passed!!!
So here are the numbers after swapping out both Cats.
I am still not happy with the CO number. It seems like that is still a bit high. (I plan on testing the PAIR reed Valve this week)
Any ideas how to drop that number? (I don't want to have to go through this again in 2 years)

BobinDenver
09-27-2011, 01:23 PM
Glad to hear that things eventually worked out!

I'm having NOx trouble myself. After the first fail, Toy Car Care suggested new CATs. Quoted me $3,300 for P,L+T. I'm going with Plan B (then C, D, and E) before moving on to full CAT replacement. This thread and some others have been very helpful for those plans.

Thanks in advance!

Snowrun
09-27-2011, 01:46 PM
Glad to hear that things eventually worked out!

I'm having NOx trouble myself. After the first fail, Toy Car Care suggested new CATs. Quoted me $3,300 for P,L+T. I'm going with Plan B (then C, D, and E) before moving on to full CAT replacement. This thread and some others have been very helpful for those plans.

Thanks in advance!

I may ask Treeroot if he wants to get together and make some youtube videos on how to troubleshoot each of the components involved.
I would check the EGR, EGR vacuum module and VSV before putting on cats.
All three are pretty straight forward to test and a lot cheaper than cats.

Do you have a green top or blue top EGC vacuum modulator? (The green tops have a filter that can get plugged)

3300 for cats seems very high. There isn't much to swapping them out. I ordered 2 from CruiserDan and it only took a couple of hours to swap them out.
(I had to cut off all of the bolts with a sawsall)

Bikeman
09-27-2011, 10:57 PM
Glad to hear that things eventually worked out!

I'm having NOx trouble myself. After the first fail, Toy Car Care suggested new CATs. Quoted me $3,300 for P,L+T. I'm going with Plan B (then C, D, and E) before moving on to full CAT replacement. This thread and some others have been very helpful for those plans.

Thanks in advance!

I was quoted less than $700 for 2 cats installed from A&A Performance Muffler. Toy Car Care has always been waaay high on quotes I've received over the years.

treerootCO
09-29-2011, 11:15 AM
The Ptarmigan passed :)

Sporting FJC E-tires. :thumb:

25363

25364

Ambient temperature 55F
Intake temperature 67F
Engine temperature 177F
91 octane
55 highway miles prior to the test with cruise set to 2100 rpm

25365

Numbers from 2 years ago:

25376

35s on an FJC :cool:

25366

sleeoffroad
09-29-2011, 12:03 PM
I think you should leave it like that.

treerootCO
09-29-2011, 12:25 PM
How many lug nuts does a Prius have?

treerootCO
10-08-2013, 08:27 AM
You're up John. When do you want to run yours through?

Snowrun
10-08-2013, 09:17 AM
I am hoping this week. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Snowrun
10-15-2013, 01:27 PM
Passed on my first try this year :)
Myself and Treeroot cleaned the MAF,changed the oil,changed the air filter and ran a couple bottles of Red Heet with 91 octane.
Also I think it helped that it was around 40 degrees out.
(Sorry for the sideways photo) Darn iPhones.
The truck has never ran better.

simps80
10-15-2013, 08:49 PM
Nice!!:thumb:

Snowrun
10-26-2015, 11:59 PM
So it looks like a new failure has popped up this year. :(
CO GPM and HC are very high numbers.
Did all the normal things. Cleaned the MAF, ran a bottle of Red HEET.
New air filter and gas cap....
Cleaned up the distributor. Also checked the timing and it is still spot on.
Looks like this failure is a pretty solid failure.
Also they managed to get the truck to throw a CEL 25 during the test.
Any advise?

Nemo
10-27-2015, 12:03 AM
Newer cats or O2 Sensors. If not one of those probably would do the trick. The numbers to me make me think you could slide with O2 sensors but hard to say if you might need both? Didn't see how many miles on the 94? Edit just saw the miles. 243 and some change. Nicely done. :-)

treerootCO
10-27-2015, 08:20 AM
The two O2 sensors and the two new cats have 57000 miles on them and have been installed for four years. I'm wondering if his truck has always ran lean for some reason and the cats worked to mask the high CO numbers. Too expensive to swap cats every two years.

Snowrun
10-27-2015, 08:26 AM
Simps80 and I changed the MAF last night. (just because we had a spare). It seems to run a lot cooler. I am planning on getting under the truck today and looking at the harness wires going to the O2 sensors. I am seeing a few post on mud about wires having issue. If that checks out I am going to see about getting a couple new o2 sensors.

bruce285
10-27-2015, 09:57 AM
My failure is on high nox, with new cats and EGR valve. See below link.

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?p=275755#post275755

treerootCO
10-27-2015, 05:16 PM
New MAF sensor

44431

bruce285
10-27-2015, 08:30 PM
Pulled the intake plenum off the 80 today. EGR port was solidly plugged with carbon.

Snowrun
10-27-2015, 08:34 PM
Pulled the intake plenum off the 80 today. EGR port was solidly plugged with carbon.

Do you have emissions measurements before and after?
It would be interesting to see what effect it has on the numbers.
:thumb::wrench:

simps80
10-27-2015, 08:46 PM
That maf helped.
Unfortunately not enough.
It would be nice too see a graph of reading to rpm. If its rich throughout or not.
That high of co plus high hc but ok NOx is rich fuel mix prob from 02 failure. Or maf malfunction..but don't think so cause that was drastic change last night down to 50

Might be able to get it passed with no air filter and pull all the junk off the front....but i bet its o2 sensor

Snowrun
10-27-2015, 08:58 PM
I ordered O2 sensors,PCV(with grommet), and a PAIR valve today. Should be in next week.
It looks like the MAF had a pretty dramatic effect of the low speed portion of the test in regards to CO.
It also threw another CEL 25 as a result of the test. I think it is interesting that only the emissions test seems to get the car to throw a code.
BTW sorry for the sideways pic. Not sure why it keeps getting turned when I upload it.

treerootCO
10-28-2015, 09:59 AM
Found this on the internets

Most often a faulty TPS will cause high CO, as an engine's ECU always prefers to send more fuel rather then less, in an effort to avoid a lean fuel mixture and subsequently higher engine temperatures.

44444

89452-22090
Europe, N. America 01/1990-12/1997 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER FJ80,FZJ80 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM

22RE??? part number
Part 89452-14050 (SENSOR, THROTTLE POSITION (FOR E.F.I.))
Europe, N. America 01/1990-12/1997 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER FJ80,FZJ80 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM

about $75

Blindranger
10-28-2015, 11:30 AM
Found this on the internets

Most often a faulty TPS will cause high CO, as an engine's ECU always prefers to send more fuel rather then less, in an effort to avoid a lean fuel mixture and subsequently higher engine temperatures.

44444

Part 89452-14050 (SENSOR, THROTTLE POSITION (FOR E.F.I.))
Europe, N. America 01/1990-12/1997 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER FJ80,FZJ80 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM

about $75

Thank you Treeroot! I have been plagued by high CO, but within limits for everything else, this sounds like it might be a solution.

bruce285
10-28-2015, 02:30 PM
When I get it back on. Putting new valve cover gasket and plug seals, replacing VSV and all vac hoses today. Still soaking the plenum and cleaning the TB. I'll include the EPA Inspection report.

Snowrun
10-28-2015, 04:02 PM
Found this on the internets

Most often a faulty TPS will cause high CO, as an engine's ECU always prefers to send more fuel rather then less, in an effort to avoid a lean fuel mixture and subsequently higher engine temperatures.

44444

Part 89452-14050 (SENSOR, THROTTLE POSITION (FOR E.F.I.))
Europe, N. America 01/1990-12/1997 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER FJ80,FZJ80 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM

about $75

For my 94 It looks like the part number is 89452-22090. Just ordered one of those as well.

treerootCO
10-28-2015, 04:15 PM
89452-22090
Europe, N. America 01/1990-12/1997 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER FJ80,FZJ80 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM

davework
10-28-2015, 09:00 PM
Just to add another possibility, I chased high CO all over the place for about 6mos after I rebuilt the engine in my 94. It had new everything except cats. The last thing I tried before replacing the cats was a new fuel pressure regulator. Instant pass. It's a relatively cheap part, and easy to swap. It doesn't come up often in emissions discussions, but I was out of options. Wish I had tried it sooner.

LARGEONE
10-29-2015, 07:32 AM
Just to add another possibility, I chased high CO all over the place for about 6mos after I rebuilt the engine in my 94. It had new everything except cats. The last thing I tried before replacing the cats was a new fuel pressure regulator. Instant pass. It's a relatively cheap part, and easy to swap. It doesn't come up often in emissions discussions, but I was out of options. Wish I had tried it sooner.

I changed out the fuel pressure regulator on our manny's (not a typo, yes our nanny is a dude) Isuzu to bring his emissions into spec as well. This is a cheap part and might be worth doing.

Snowrun
10-29-2015, 08:51 AM
Just to add another possibility, I chased high CO all over the place for about 6mos after I rebuilt the engine in my 94. It had new everything except cats. The last thing I tried before replacing the cats was a new fuel pressure regulator. Instant pass. It's a relatively cheap part, and easy to swap. It doesn't come up often in emissions discussions, but I was out of options. Wish I had tried it sooner.
I will add it to my parts list.

treerootCO
10-30-2015, 08:52 AM
Scariest Jack O' Lantern ever!

44574

treerootCO
11-02-2015, 06:52 PM
Shotgun troubleshooting! :)

44725

treerootCO
11-02-2015, 08:51 PM
Didn't quite get done. The inside O2 sensor we got from Stevenson is defective. We plug the new one in and throw a code 28. If we plug in the old one, the code clears. It took a week to get this set so I'm not sure what to do.

rover67
11-02-2015, 10:16 PM
I know you're a toyota guy but why not throw in a generic for the mean time?

treerootCO
11-03-2015, 09:44 AM
It throws a code 28 with the old, the new, and the known good (the RH O2 can plug into either so we tried all three) now so we are thinking the wiring is suspect. We grounded the O2 sensor and John is going to check resistance through the plug and continuity as far up the harness as he can. We can plug the new RH O2 into the LH plug to prove the O2s are good if needed. John says the wires are not long enough to do that with the RH O2 installed.

Found a better way to clear the codes as well. With the EFI fuse pulled, you turn the key to the on position and wait for the CEL to go out. The key on drains the capacitor and forces the memory to be lost. Just pulling the EFI doesn't always clear the code.

Verified the wiring is correct and matches the harness. John might pull the wires on the ECU just to rule out a bad connection there. Not likely but easy enough to rule out.

O2 wire Color Code Mr. T - OE
Blue = Signal wire
White = Heater wire 1 (non polarity)
Brown = Heater wire 2 (non polarity)
Grey = Aux Ground

rover67
11-03-2015, 10:37 AM
Interesting, sounds like it must be the wiring. does the aux ground go all the way back to the ECU?

treerootCO
11-08-2015, 10:10 AM
John is dropping the 80 off at Slee tomorrow to have the harness rewired before he puts a 50cal round through the block.

c95nH3ErFiQ

jps8460
11-08-2015, 10:24 AM
Be sure to load it up with tannerite first, you don't want it to limp away.

Snowrun
11-10-2015, 11:34 AM
It passed!!!
I am extremely thankful for Joe at Slee. He found that the previous owner had hacked the wiring to the O2 sensors. He fixed it and resolved all of the codes.

wesintl
11-10-2015, 11:46 AM
yay

Kenon698
11-10-2015, 01:35 PM
Fantastic

rover67
11-10-2015, 01:38 PM
congratulations!

bummer it took so long, but a definitive cause is worth it... sucks when you don't know what you fixed.

simps80
11-10-2015, 01:42 PM
Awesome!!!