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leiniesred
10-20-2011, 08:43 AM
One concern that comes up is how do you set the pace on a trail?

First of all, don't worry about it too much.
The pace you are rolling along at has a lot less to do with the time you get home than the time you spend stopping to do stuff like take pictures, spot obstacles, lunch, hikes, bio breaks...

In order to keep scheduled stops reasonable in time, set expectations and make them clear to the group.
"OK, we have a great view of Moab from up here on the cliff. Let's stop here to take a bio break and some photos. We'll start rolling again at 11:15. Don't forget we're hoping to make it to the Golden Crack for lunch at 12:30."
Now people know how much time they have at the stop. (15 minutes is usually good) and when the next stop is scheduled.
Have the guy with the V8 and cherry bombs start up the engine when it is time to go. That sound gets people back in their trucks pretty fast!



In your driver's meeting, remind people to keep the truck in front of you in sight. Also, keep the truck behind you in sight.

Mention that you have a LONG day of wheeling coming up (on most trails) and that it is important to keep the group moving if we want to make it back to camp for supper.

There will be plenty of time for taking pictures along the way. Promise to stop at all the cool places.

As far as the actual pace, the 40s ride rougher and tend to go slower especially if they have an orion t-case. The 80s tend to cruise along pretty fast and many of the mini truck drivers are crazy and go as fast as possible all the time.

Just put your truck in 4low and start going. The pace that feels comfortable for you will probably be just fine for everyone on the trip.

Gotta particularly slow truck? They'll end up right in front of the tailgunner eventually. No big deal, the gunner knows the trail too and despite the slowness, they'll probably catch up to the pack at the next obstacle.
social pressure is usually enough to get them to kick it up a little faster. Sure you might get a report that the pace was too fast, but come on...It's a long day on some of these trails. No one ever complains when they make it back to camp on time. ;)

Sometimes, ya can't hurry a turtle. Get Zen instead of frustrated.

One thing that I have noticed, especially on Golden Spike, is that the pace gets slower and slower as the day wears on despite the trail getting easier and easier.

Any ideas on how to combat trail fatigue slowdowns or other pacing issuses?

MDH33
10-20-2011, 09:01 AM
This is just an observation, but it seems like when everyone has a HAM radio, there's a lot more chatter and chit chat, which makes the ride go faster. Less need for long breaks to socialize because everyone is socializing as we go.

:yagi: :D

Uncle Ben
10-20-2011, 09:32 AM
Rude dog....you are da man! Personally, I think keeping the guy ahead of you in sight is not as big of a priority as keeping the guy behind you in sight. If you are not up to the driving/vehicle level of the guy in front of you you couldn't possibly keep up UNLESS that person is keeping you in sight. The guy behind you is the one you need to keep track of! That person will be the one you need to assist if they need a tug or _________ (fill in the blank.) Also, if the person behind you loves to show off with their kazillion to 1 crawler gears when it's time to drive they need to be made aware of trail etiquette TACTFULLY so everyone can play on the obstacles and cruise on the easy stuff.

leiniesred
10-20-2011, 12:34 PM
Great point, Martin. We'll be sure to bring up a post about encouraging social interaction on the trails with the radios.

Kevin: Thanks for stressing the emphasis on keeping the guy behind you in sight. You can loose a ton of time if you let the group get split up and 1/2 lost out there, then spend the time getting everyone back on the trail together!

Hulk
10-20-2011, 03:35 PM
More than once, the problem has been one guy in the group who simply refuses to drive faster -- he takes every rut as if he's dropping off a 3-foot ledge. How do you guys deal with that?

Uncle Ben
10-20-2011, 03:49 PM
More than once, the problem has been one guy in the group who simply refuses to drive faster -- he takes every rut as if he's dropping off a 3-foot ledge. How do you guys deal with that?

I hear that! I would love to learn how to put a fire under some pokiebutt! Some people just drive that way. As long as you can get them to pick up the pace where it's flat it should all work out IF THEY WILL SPEED UP. If the vehicle has been recently modified (ie: new lift) we all like to play with the new found flex! :) Some folks just don't have much opportunity to wheel much so that honeymoon of new mods lasts much longer! My biggest peeve is always (as I mentioned earlier) folks who are enamored with impressing everyone with their uber low gearing. Like any tool if it's not needed don't use it! :bowdown::bowdown::wrench:

Cheeseman
10-20-2011, 07:08 PM
You know these are excellent points. All things are the same only different for all people. Ask my wife about that one. I have been known to take that slow person and put them right behind me for all the reasons that have been mentioned. New suspension, new rig, little experience, low confidence. That way I can help them personally for awhile. Usually creates a whole new person and ultimately a whole new driver.

MDH33
10-20-2011, 07:57 PM
You know these are excellent points. All things are the same only different for all people. Ask my wife about that one. I have been known to take that slow person and put them right behind me for all the reasons that have been mentioned. New suspension, new rig, little experience, low confidence. That way I can help them personally for awhile. Usually creates a whole new person and ultimately a whole new driver.

I was thinking something similar, and also thinking of what was mentioned in another trail leader thread about putting the inexperienced drivers right behind an experienced driver with a similar rig. Makes a huge difference when they can be focusing on someones line before "following the leader". I do it myself when on a new trail.

Flip side of that coin is putting an inexperienced driver behind someone in a tippy 40 or a crazy mini-truck driver. That tends to freak people out and really slow things down. :hill:

Where am I going with this. Oh yeah, taking a moment at the beginning of the run to arrange the order might be good. :thumb:

corsair23
10-21-2011, 01:58 PM
...taking a moment at the beginning of the run to arrange the order might be good. :thumb:

I like that idea Martin if it is pratical...

My very first run ever in the LX was CM 2007 on Porcupine. I wasn't "new" to wheeling but it had been many, many years since I had actually been wheeling on a trail and the LX was brand new to me. I intentionally positioned myself behind another 80 on the run so I could watch the lines the driver took and see what his 80 did.

I spoke with the driver at lunch telling him what I had been doing and he sort of smiled and said something to the effect of "oops...I've been picking the hardest lines I could all day."

That instilled some confidence in me in and the LX knowing that in some cases I picked a different line wondering where the 80 in front of me was going with the "line" he chose? Also gave me some confidence knowing that the LX's capabilities at the time surpassed my skills as a driver and made things much easier.

nakman
10-21-2011, 06:56 PM
One thing that makes the day drag is everyone on the run watching everyone on the run hit every obstacle on the run. Unless it's Wipe Out hill where there is in fact, only one obstacle.. have folks watch only a couple to make sure they make it then get back in their trucks and drive. I personally like the "stop to make sure the guy behind you makes it, then keep moving" rule, but there's some flexibility involved depending on what trucks and drivers you have.

And there's nothing worse than a stack-up from someone (even the leader) who stops to watch others, to the point where the run can't proceed because he stopped. So 13 trucks are in a line on Fins after the diving board, only to find that now truck #14 can't even go because there are other trucks in the way. And then 13 drivers need to be found and motivated, so that 13 vehicles can move up, enough for the rest of the run to even do what they all just did before they took a break. Best advice to new leaders is move waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up before stopping, much further than you think. It's only 30 seconds to walk a little more back to the obstacle, but if you stop short and then half your group needs to reposition so the other half can proceed, it's an eternity. :rant:

MikeBoyle
10-22-2011, 02:02 PM
I typically end up gunning weither it was where I started the trail or not I usually always end up in the back. As a gunner one of the most frustrating things that comes up is the group funneling the lesser equipped vehicles to the rear and then driving away leaving them (and the gunner) to fend for themselves (hasn't happened at CM, but it does happen). Pairing experienced drivers with non experienced has already been mentioned, but we also need to take into consideration vehicle capability when lining the group up (especially on the harder trails). Putting two open/open rigs in line together may not be the best idea. Also, if the group consists of rigs that run from built to stock its best to keep the stock ones near the front. Yes, throughout the the day the line up will get shuffled, just try to empasize on keeping the group somewhat organized.

leiniesred
10-27-2011, 10:01 AM
Good points, Mike. Thanks for taking the time to share 'em with everyone.

Scott Yoder and I have tried various lineups during snow runs (A case where almost everyone needs help at some point in the day!) and biggest truck to littlest truck with a strong anchor truck at the end of the lineup works best because each smaller truck shaves down the center berm of snow a little more for the smaller truck behind 'em.

Moab is a little different. There is very little strapping and frankly, I've only had to use a winch in emergency and recovery situations so far in Moab. I think we're onto something here about the importance of driver experience/skill in the lineup. Putting an experienced driver in front of an inexperienced driver to demonstrate line selection can not only keep the trail moving at a good pace, but also help teach line selection and techniques to less experienced drivers. I love it when I get to the end of a trail and I can see first hand that a driver has greatly improved during a single good day on the trail.

Corbet
01-20-2012, 01:09 PM
taking a moment at the beginning of the run to arrange the order might be good. :thumb:

I've done this the past two years on Porcupine. Access the drivers skills during the pre-run meeting and arrange the trucks my model placing an in-experienced driver behind or in-between experienced drivers. On porcupine this seems to work pretty well as its drawn a good mix of drivers new and seasoned.

The other great advantage here is that you have a spotter near you familiar with the same vehicle. Personally I don't care to spot 40's any more if I don't have to. Its been way too long since I've wheeled mine and its a completely different animal than an 80.

Inukshuk
01-20-2012, 08:04 PM
priority ... keeping the guy behind you in sight. ... The guy behind you is the one you need to keep track of!

yes

More than once, the problem has been one guy in the group who simply refuses to drive faster -- he takes every rut as if he's dropping off a 3-foot ledge. How do you guys deal with that?

As noted, behind a normal speed driver with the same rig.