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nattybumppo
11-06-2011, 11:45 PM
OK who has what and what do you guys thing about the 3/1 versus 4/1 Orion for my 1977 FJ 40. I have the stock 4.11 and 33/10.50s all of which I intend to keep since I like how it goes down the highway.

The rough numbers are these according to the gear calculator: with my current 1.96/1 stock tcase I have a crawl at 650 rpm of about 225 ft/min. The 3/1 Orion would give me about 145 ft/min, and the 4/1 Orion would give me about 110 ft/min.

So, since I am not really building a crawler, but I want to be able to control my speed through the obstacles on something like OCG with my gearbox so it's nice and slow, how low do I need to go?

AxleIke
11-06-2011, 11:56 PM
Not entirely the same, but my experience with one and two transfer cases in my mini truck:

1 transfer at 4.7:1,

2 Transfers with a stock low of 2.3 and a second choice of 4.7, and a third of 10.7:1

The single, low gear case was great in the obstacles. Lots of low end torque and grunt to get through.

On most trails though, I found myself in 4th or 5th gear winding out the motor to keep up with the group. It was most noticeable at Cruise Moab. I was a bottle neck for the trail because I couldn't keep up on the fast sections of the trail.

If it were me, with a single case option, I'd go 3:1. It'd give you the grunt and slowness you want in 1st gear, and enough speed in the higher gears to keep up. Obviously, I am most happy with the selection a 4 speed case (which duals mimics) gives you. You have go fast gears, go slow gears, and crawl everything gears.

Sounds like you have a fun project in the works! Can't wait to see pics!

FJBRADY
11-07-2011, 06:50 AM
4:1 you can never have enough gearing.

Just shift up to 3rd and 4th to keep with the pace with out shifting out of low.

I dont know anyone who has a 3:1 Orion.....do not be different here.

If you buy the 3:1 you will only regret not having the 4:1.

On the road with 36" tires and 4:11 in the diffs my truck still pulls 70 mph on the highway.

Oh and go wiith twin sticks, one shifts from 2wd to 4wd hi and the other shifts from 1:1 to 4:1, muy beuno.

subzali
11-07-2011, 07:07 AM
3rd gear with a 4:1 Orion would fall between your stock low range 1st and 2nd gears. 4th gear with a 4:1 Orion is slightly taller than your stock low range 2nd gear. So if you find yourself bombing around in 3rd or 4th gear low range now, that means you'll have to shift to high for that stuff with a 4:1 Orion.

That said, I agree with Brady that if you're going to go to all the trouble, just go 4:1. If Jeeps (Rubicons) can deal with it on the trail, so can we :D

Uncle Ben
11-07-2011, 07:15 AM
Your stock T-case is 2.3:1. Why would you spend $2k for a .6:1 gearing upgrade? 4:1 Orion is the only way to go! I now have a Stak mini case which gives me a 3:1 or 5:1 choice. 3:1 is often just shy of ideal and 5:1 is awesome on the rocks but just cant generate enough wheel speed if needed. I miss 4:1!

Rezarf
11-07-2011, 07:20 AM
Go big or save the $$$.

Air Randy
11-07-2011, 08:12 AM
Come and drive the Mule. It has 4-1 TC, I also have 4.88 gears but with the 37's the overall ratio would be close to what you would have.

The only complaint I have had is how slow the rig is in low range even when in 4th gear. Top speed winding the 2F up to 3800 rpm is 11 mph. Sure is great though when crawking the rocks :D.

It is a little better now that I have the twin stick shifter. Before, using the stock shifter, trying to go from low to high or back was about as enjoyable as a root canal. It was really difficult to get it to shift, so you tended to just stay in low once you got it in there. So there were times when I was struggling to keep up with the group as some people like to bomb down the trail. The twin shifter has made shifting quite a bit easier so it's not as bad to stop and shift in to high.

I think the 3-1 TC is for folks who want to run larger tires but play mostly in the sand or mud where having slightly higher wheel speed is important for them.

Dr. Schlegs
11-07-2011, 08:57 AM
You guys are a bad influence. First I get new bucket seats and now I'm thinking about Orions as well.

subzali
11-07-2011, 09:06 AM
slippery slope dude, slippery slope ;)

RLMS
11-07-2011, 09:12 AM
Think of the 4 to 1 as a future investment, Just in case you upgrade tire size.
Until then, you will be the slowest guy on the trail that every one wants to be!

Justin

Dr. Schlegs
11-07-2011, 09:51 AM
slippery slope dude, slippery slope ;)

Ya tell me about it, need to start clipping coupons.

nattybumppo
11-07-2011, 10:23 AM
slippery slope dude, slippery slope ;)

Yeah but to negotiate a slippery slope I just need bigger tires, lower gearing, maybe a winch, V-8, massive lift, armor all around, lightweight aluminium body, full roll cage, an aggressive paint job, a car trailer, and a new diesel truck to pull it. Right? :thumb:

Uncle Ben
11-07-2011, 10:37 AM
Yeah but to negotiate a slippery slope I just need bigger tires, lower gearing, maybe a winch, V-8, massive lift, armor all around, lightweight aluminium body, full roll cage, an aggressive paint job, a car trailer, and a new diesel truck to pull it. Right? :thumb:

That would be a great start! :lmao: :D

Rezarf
11-07-2011, 11:05 AM
That would be a great start! :lmao: :D

HA! :lmao:

wesintl
11-07-2011, 11:19 AM
That would be a great start! :lmao: :D

If you had a mini truck... ;)

I dunno, depends on the kind of trails you run. I've gone everywhere I need to with 33's and no orion, and ive done chinamans several times without issues. It's probably cheaper than doing an h55 or h41 tho. Now once you hit bigger than 33's you need to find the gearing for the oversize meats. You could always save yourself a bundle and come back to it if needed later. Get more seat time with the 40..? I'd pick the straight 4-1 to answer your question.

subzali
11-07-2011, 12:33 PM
I'm with Mr. Eastwood.

Don't regear unless you find the need to. I've done OCG on 31s, rear locker, no power steering. I wouldn't recommend doing it again that way, but actually since Shep's Revenge is gone it wouldn't be so bad. The entrance has gotten worse since I was last there though, so I dunno.

Uncle Ben
11-07-2011, 01:25 PM
I'm with Mr. Eastwood.

Don't regear unless you find the need to. I've done OCG on 31s, rear locker, no power steering. I wouldn't recommend doing it again that way, but actually since Shep's Revenge is gone it wouldn't be so bad. The entrance has gotten worse since I was last there though, so I dunno.

Agree'd! It's all in what you want and need your vehicle to do for you. So many folks think a vehicle is sacred and fear the modifications. Vehicles, no matter what the grill badge says, are just tools to do/go where the operator wants. If you want/need to do harder stuff then modify as needed! Plain and simple!

subzali
11-07-2011, 01:33 PM
Yep, I was headed that direction, and then after I broke my pinion in Moab decided that I didn't enjoy that side of it so much.

Maybe someday when I'm able I'll buy another 40 and do crazy stuff to it.

Uncle Ben
11-07-2011, 01:37 PM
Yep, I was headed that direction, and then after I broke my pinion in Moab decided that I didn't enjoy that side of it so much.

Maybe someday when I'm able I'll buy another 40 and do crazy stuff to it.

Just buy Jeremy's truck and be done with it! :thumb:

subzali
11-07-2011, 01:42 PM
Hey UB, you know I'm a Cruiser guy...;)

I'm thinking more like this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5-SCB-FaRUw/Rj5-FjMlT1I/AAAAAAAAAA8/BFcxoZMYIsU/s320/DSC_

or like Mike's
http://cruiser-concepts.com/CRUISER_CONCEPTS/images/Img11.png

:drool:

By the way, stock '77 has 1.96:1 low range, not 2.31:1 ;)

Sorry Sascha, don't mean to hijack your thread. But I added some tech to keep it on track ;)

wesintl
11-07-2011, 01:46 PM
Hey UB, you know I'm a Cruiser guy...;)

just hang a bezel on the front... that's what the rest of em do... :p::drumsticks:

subzali
11-07-2011, 01:54 PM
gotta cut it down first :weld:

Uncle Ben
11-07-2011, 02:04 PM
just hang a bezel on the front... that's what the rest of em do... :p::drumsticks:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Lydnu2ap-Pg/TrhG90ijh2I/AAAAAAAAAMU/b4uqkQbfLG8/s400/n733980964_1235448_1442.jpg

DaveInDenver
11-07-2011, 02:15 PM
Agree'd! It's all in what you want and need your vehicle to do for you. So many folks think a vehicle is sacred and fear the modifications. Vehicles, no matter what the grill badge says, are just tools to do/go where the operator wants. If you want/need to do harder stuff then modify as needed! Plain and simple!
Yup.

Sascha, FWIW, I ran a Marlin 4.7:1 transfer for a few years. For crawling, a single case in the lowest gear ratio is what you want. But realize it's a pain for other things. Mild dirt trail, unplowed packed snow roads, helping people out of ditches. I use my truck less for crawling and more just getting places, so I went back to a stock case and haven't missed it (even with 33" tires).

Not to mention for even intermediate trails the F engines chug a whole lot better than the 22R. Low gears are much more important for anything beyond mild in a mini truck, there's very little torque anywhere and even less at 900 RPM. Match the axle gears to tires (I'm also running 4.10 gears with the 33", that sucks in the mountains) and pick the t-case for the purpose, ultra low for crawler, stock for general utility.

I also put on a winch, which has covered my rear one time that I could not make it. But that IMO validated that I was dragging around too much truck 99% of the time for the 1% I needed it.

Air Randy
11-07-2011, 06:46 PM
Thats ultimately the reason why i went with an H41. I didn't really need the granny low in low range with the orion TC. But with the H41 there are many times I can run the trail in high range first gear when I need to keep up with the pack.

I going to be selling the Mule soon, why not just buy it? It already has everything you would ever need for off roading and it's all new or rebuilt.

nattybumppo
11-07-2011, 08:03 PM
I love the Mule, but gotta put the kids through college still. Besides, my intended use is considerable milder than your present use. OCG is my upper end. I just bashed up my underside more than I liked coming down off the trail at the end of the day. Could also be a carb issue why it dosn't like to idle down as far as I want it too. I already have an email in to JimC. And it is most probably just inexperienced driver syndrome. I suck!

Nevertheless, I still think an Orion is a good idea for me with that rig. I will use the 60 for trips/mild stuff, but I don't want to expose it to significant body damage...that's the kind of trail the 40 is for. I'm still up in the air about 3/1 versus 4/1, despite all these very helpful opinions. But like you did say once, Randy, "you can always switch up into four high."

Rzeppa
11-08-2011, 09:25 AM
It's probably cheaper than doing an h55 or h41 tho.

I guess it depends on what kind of deal you get. I paid $335 for the H41 I put into my '76. I paid $850 for the H55F I have waiting to put into my 60.

subzali
11-22-2011, 03:40 PM
UB:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=574751&stc=1&d=1321928389

Dr. Schlegs
11-22-2011, 04:29 PM
:drool:

Uncle Ben
11-22-2011, 05:26 PM
UB:


That is really a sweet full body buggy! Who's is it Matt?

subzali
11-22-2011, 05:55 PM
dunno. some 'MUD wallower was axeing 'bout it and I've yet to see an answer. Would be int'resting to see how it was built tho :hill:

subzali
11-22-2011, 08:31 PM
Info:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/535385-anyone-seen-have-more-info-rig.html#post7125718