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dr350jja
12-02-2011, 10:40 PM
Is simplex, station-to-station communication used on a trail run, or a repeater frequency? I'm just curious how people use the ham radio on the trail runs.

DanS
12-03-2011, 08:03 AM
I tend to do both (I have an FT-8800r). Simplex with the group on the trail, and the other side monitoring a repeater in case someone loses us on simplex or there are stragglers coming later or something...

If I had a simpler radio, I'd be simplex on the trail.

Dan

wesintl
12-03-2011, 04:28 PM
It's mostly simplex on the trail. I mainly use the repeaters to find people en-route to the trail.

MDH33
12-03-2011, 07:57 PM
I've been able to hit others on Simplex 40-50 miles away sometimes on my simple 2M rig, which is usually sufficient on a trail run. :thumb:

nakman
12-03-2011, 11:03 PM
I tend to do both ....


Same here. Or two simplex frequencies, when there's more than one group around, or there's a reason for separate communications. having two radios can be pretty sweet.

dr350jja
12-04-2011, 03:27 PM
Thanks guys, I am new to ham radio and use an HT. I see that there are a lot of weekly nets on the air. Anyone know of a net that discusses 4X4 topics? Looking forward to learning more about ham radio.

nakman
12-04-2011, 07:01 PM
Thanks guys, I am new to ham radio and use an HT. I see that there are a lot of weekly nets on the air. Anyone know of a net that discusses 4X4 topics? Looking forward to learning more about ham radio.

Start one! We used to do Monday nights at 9:00 on the 145.145.. I haven't checked that repeater lately to see if there's anyone else on at that time, but that would be an easy place to start. In the past we would typically start on the 145, then move to simplex to see who could still send/receive, then back to the repeaters, etc. It's a great way for new operators to get used to transmitting, repeater etiquette, and just yak about their rigs.

CO Hunter
12-12-2011, 09:13 PM
I know this has been touched on a bit but I was wondering what you guys do on trail runs for frequency of id, every 10 min? Does it depend on how remote you are, less chance of someone listening less often you id yourselves? On an all day run that's a lot. Looking for guidance as we are getting more operators and interest in our club.

wesintl
12-13-2011, 09:18 AM
IMHO you should follow the rules for frequency of ID. It doesn't matter how remote you are.

on the other hand, IMHO on our trail runs station identification is often way over used.

97.119
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station.

Groucho
12-13-2011, 10:15 AM
This topic is covered in my classes. While I agree that most cases we tend to side on the shorter side of the 10 minute rule meaning we ID ourselves more frequently, better shorter than longer. I've taught over 60 people in my HAM classes, and I know every one of them got a few pointers on keeping within the scope of our privileges.

We also covered this in the HAM section about repeater etiquette and the like. It is required that the full call sign be given every 10 minutes, not an abbreviated form.

If you get into a habit of doing it, it isn't bothersome. Talking on a run isn't the best place to rag-chew while driving, and sometimes with a bigger group it can get downright confusing on who is talking. That is why we always push the "listen before you transmit, and only transmit what you need to say" guideline. If you're WRDY like some folks can be (no offense), make sure you formulate your thoughts as best you can. Nothing is more embarrassing than hitting the time-out function of your radio or repeater because you were being chatty-cathy who needed to cut her string a little shorter.

Besides, this isn't about getting around "the rules". Its about absorbing the hobby and improving it, or at least not detracting from it.

wesintl
12-13-2011, 10:45 AM
I just wish on a trail run more people would incorporate it at the end of their transmission vs at a given point people just start saying "w0rek for id" for a couple minutes. If you haven't transmitted in the last 10 min then there is really no need to identify yourself. If you decide to transmit just give your call sign at the end. way more efficient.

It's probably just one of my few pet peeve's...

rover67
12-13-2011, 03:22 PM
I like hearing call signs at the end of transmissions because it let's me know clearly who is talking.. That can be helpful even on a run where I know everybody. When people just shout out call signs all in a row it dosent really help me figure out who's talking really.

rover67
12-13-2011, 03:26 PM
I also agree that one should follow the rules no matter how remote... I think station ID is good in those situations specifically for the same reasons it is always good.

DaveInDenver
12-13-2011, 03:44 PM
There's a long history with call signs, not just amateur radio, too. It's your unique identifier, no one else in the world has that call sign, so you should rightly be proud to use it. Some are very famous, MGY was the Titanic, DEKKA was Hindenburg, GBTT was the Queen Mary. In the case of the MGY, it had a wireless that was so new that its call was given by the Marconi company itself, for example. BTW, MPA was Carpathia, which had a very limited radio range so most of its traffic was handled third party through MEA (Franconia) to CPR (Princess Royal) to reach MSD (Camperdown shore station at Sable Island, Nova Scotia). MSD then relayed messages to New York and the White Star Line offices.

Even on VHF and UHF, you are transmitting a signal that has the potential to travel long distances and be heard by Goodness knows who and using call signs eliminates confusion. You don't need to know an easily misunderstood name or even care where the two stations are physically situated, all you need to know is a call sign and that you have a RF path.

The 10 minute rule is important, but no FCC monitor is going to time you with a watch. Be sure to ID when you sign off and periodically during use. They use 10 minutes because propagation can change quickly and if you don't ID enough your signal might fade in and out without anyone ever hearing your call sign. Sometimes 10 minutes is not enough (like 10m openings!), sometimes it's really redundant (like repeaters rag-chews). So it's a compromise for the rule book.

DaveInDenver
12-13-2011, 04:14 PM
Another example that I just remember, KLZ right here in Denver. That has been in continuous use for a terrestrial station since I think about 1922 (it's Denver first commercial station), but previously assigned to a ship that sunk in 1920 called the HMS Speedwell. What's really interesting is that the name Speedwell was originally the name of the Mayflower's ill-fated sister ship as well (it began taking on water twice and turned back, never making it to the New World).

CO Hunter
12-14-2011, 06:34 AM
Thanks for the great discussion.

nakman
12-14-2011, 09:07 AM
I like hearing call signs at the end of transmissions because it let's me know clearly who is talking.. That can be helpful even on a run where I know everybody. When people just shout out call signs all in a row it dosent really help me figure out who's talking really.

I agree, but also I kinda like it when everyone just says their calls in the morning, when we first get in the trucks. It's cool to me to hear how many other hams are in the group that day. Now later in the day, yes, way more appropriate to limit your ID to those times when you're actually transmitting.. and if you're silent for an hour yes you don't ID 6x just because you have the radio on. But I dunno, I guess I like the good morning radio check thing. :o

rover67
12-14-2011, 02:36 PM
I agree nak, and like Dave says, since it is your unique identifier it is basically like saying your name each time.... Heck it's even better... Nobody has the same one!

Cheeseman
12-14-2011, 04:47 PM
I miss Red Chili, Goldilocks, Hulk, Uncle Ben, Nakman, Cheeseman, 3Dog and all those call signs. You know the good old CB days. Had more character than KD0GWJ, my call sign. And which I have and do use extensively while on the trail to much benefit I know. But it was much easier to remember who was who back then. Now I have to read a chart most of the time.

Now if only we could increase power and clarity of the ol' CB........Uncle Ben, Goldilocks????

nakman
12-14-2011, 11:18 PM
Well giving an ID every once in a while doesn't mean you can't still use first names and CB handles. Nothing wrong with shouting "dude don't back up anymore, you're about to go in a hole!" on the ham, you can make good with the FCC later, as you know. But for those other times, that's why we do the vanity calls, eh. :)

DaveInDenver
12-15-2011, 05:30 AM
Well giving an ID every once in a while doesn't mean you can't still use first names and CB handles. Nothing wrong with shouting "dude don't back up anymore, you're about to go in a hole!" on the ham, you can make good with the FCC later, as you know. But for those other times, that's why we do the vanity calls, eh. :)
The only FCC restrictions on what you cannot say on ham are profanity, conduct full time business or use coded-for-obscurity messages. The rest is just convention within the hobby, like the way those early guys did things (73's, Old Man, Q-codes, etc.) or informal or courteous operating habits (like saying the call signs of others in a net).