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wesintl
01-06-2012, 04:03 PM
Top 10 Worst-Selling Vehicles of 2011

10. Subaru Tribeca
MSRP: $30,595
Units Sold: 2,791

9. Mazda Tribute
MSRP: $20,555
Units Sold: 2,696

8. Mercedes-Benz R-Class
MSRP: $52,690
Units Sold: 2,385

7. Suzuki Equator
MSRP: $17,899
Units Sold: 2,127

6. Cadillac Escalade EXT*
MSRP: $63,060
Units Sold: 2,036

5. Toyota Land Cruiser
MSRP: $68,920
Units Sold: 1,662

4. Acura ZDX
MSRP: $46,020
Units Sold: 1,564

3. Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback*
MSRP: $18,395
Units Sold: 1,548

2. Hyundai Azera
MSRP: $25,495
Units Sold: 1,524

1. Acura RL
MSRP: $47,700
Units Sold: 1,096

cool breeze
01-07-2012, 12:29 AM
Yup, looks about right. Very niche cars in the list.

cbmontgo
01-07-2012, 09:21 AM
I bet the Land Cruiser is a big seller in other places, i.e. the Middle East.

Uncle Ben
01-07-2012, 09:48 AM
I bet the Land Cruiser is a big seller in other places, i.e. the Middle East.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/vehicules/50-toyota-land-cruiser/692-why-the-land-cruiser-is-the-worst-selling-suv-in-america.html

wesintl
01-07-2012, 10:17 AM
kinda dismal but if you throw in the lexus' 3167 unit's it's not too bad.

Rezarf
01-07-2012, 10:22 AM
They also lost months of production with the tsunami... Jerry at Boulder Toyota said they were short on rigs to sell until LATE this year. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

black95
01-07-2012, 11:04 AM
I wonder if they are just stumped that land cruisers aren't selling, I bet I know why.... 70 grand?.... sheesh.

:rolleyes:

Wish we had more input on what Toyota makes, we could have avoided that whole FJ Cruiser IFS disaster... What a disappointment.

powderpig
01-07-2012, 11:33 AM
Well I read they have put in dual air bags in a 70 series tray back. I would think the same would be true for the 76 series wagon. With a diesel( a v-8 no less) this would be just the right Cruiser for me. So all that holds it up is having it certified for the US market(no small cost).
But I bet they will not do it.

theboomboom
01-07-2012, 11:39 AM
I'm with Robbie, only my vote would be for a straight-6 diesel. That just seems like it is more in the original spirit to me...

black95
01-07-2012, 03:47 PM
For the life of me, I just cannot understand why we can't have diesels here like they do in other countries. I'm not buying the emissions story, I think good ol' uncle Sam is making too much on gasoline. Sucks.

farnhamstj
01-07-2012, 03:50 PM
The Land Cruiser is the most expensive one on the list, that makes it the best.

Jacket
01-07-2012, 04:47 PM
I've got an idea - drop the Land Cruiser 200 from the US market, and only sell the LX570 with IFS/IRS. Who cares - it's a Lexus and is for the Escalade crowd.

Repurpose the "Land Cruiser" badge to the 70 series platform only, and sell a 76 GXL wagon to the market. Maybe bring in a SWB version as well, and a work mate to sell in the commercial space.

Brilliant.

Jacket
01-07-2012, 05:02 PM
So a decked out 76 GXL is the same price as a 200 series with all the options ~ 71,000 Aus. Would you (or anyone else) buy a 76 for 75,000 USD?

Scott Brady's article compares its market appeal to the Jeep, but even the 4dr Unlimited Rubicon is way under that price point.

cool breeze
01-07-2012, 05:33 PM
http://www.expeditionportal.com/vehicules/50-toyota-land-cruiser/692-why-the-land-cruiser-is-the-worst-selling-suv-in-america.html

great link!!

wesintl
01-07-2012, 06:23 PM
So a decked out 76 GXL is the same price as a 200 series with all the options ~ 71,000 Aus. Would you (or anyone else) buy a 76 for 75,000 USD?

Scott Brady's article compares its market appeal to the Jeep, but even the 4dr Unlimited Rubicon is way under that price point.

yeah but the 79 with a fortuner engine is only 30k
118,650.00 SAR = 31,640.00 USD
http://www.toyota.com.sa/en/modelsprices.asp?model_id=18

I'm starting to think the AUS tariffs are as high as the US.

Toyota could sell alot of 79's if they wanted. All the farm trucks, fleet, mining, gas, oil, etc. not to mention the small segment that wants a true offroader. Look at the FJCruiser. Toyota was only going to sell it for 3 years to the us market only. Now 7 years or whatever later it's still being sold and it's sold in a lot of other markets like aus, mid east, etc.

IMHO Toyota used to be a leader and innovator. Now they follow the market and try to give the mass what they think they want vs offering a new segment. They don't operate under the same principles that got them to where they are now. nature of the business.

Their cars and suvs are now all Small (rav4), Medium(highlander), Large(sequoia) and XL (landcruiser). :meh:

subzali
01-07-2012, 09:31 PM
a 76 GXL would compete with the 4runner, so that wouldn't work for the US market unfortunately.

I think the problem with diesel in the states is the ULSD. I don't think other countries have ULSD (could be wrong), but it is a serious design challenge with regards to injection pumps.

So you combine those two and you get no alternate body style diesel Land Cruiser in the US :(

Uncle Ben
01-07-2012, 09:35 PM
yeah but the 79 with a fortuner engine is only 30k
118,650.00 SAR = 31,640.00 USD
http://www.toyota.com.sa/en/modelsprices.asp?model_id=18

I'm starting to think the AUS tariffs are as high as the US.

Toyota could sell alot of 79's if they wanted. All the farm trucks, fleet, mining, gas, oil, etc. not to mention the small segment that wants a true offroader. Look at the FJCruiser. Toyota was only going to sell it for 3 years to the us market only. Now 7 years or whatever later it's still being sold and it's sold in a lot of other markets like aus, mid east, etc.

IMHO Toyota used to be a leader and innovator. Now they follow the market and try to give the mass what they think they want vs offering a new segment. They don't operate under the same principles that got them to where they are now. nature of the business.

Their cars and suvs are now all Small (rav4), Medium(highlander), Large(sequoia) and XL (landcruiser). :meh:


I would seriously purchase a 79 series right off the showroom floor if they were US legal! The only other brand new car in todays market I want is a Z06 Vette and I just can't justify that much money on a 2 seater yet. Maybe for my 60th Birthday! :D

Caribou Sandstorm
01-07-2012, 11:31 PM
I would seriously purchase a 79 series right off the showroom floor if they were US legal! The only other brand new car in todays market I want is a Z06 Vette and I just can't justify that much money on a 2 seater yet. Maybe for my 60th Birthday! :D

x2

I was at the Chevy dealer looking at what my new company car was going to be and I stopped in my tracks to look at the vettes...

I got to drive a vette in the late 80s and it was a total blast..I can only imagine what they are like today.

I wonder about Toyota's 70 series becoming more of a reality here though, after reading Scott's article, thanks UB..

If they follow the masses like Wes says, why would they want to get their tails kicked by Jeep selling over a 120K of Wranglers?? You would think they would look at that and want to grab some of that business..The visibility in the FJC and 5th Gen 4runner are horrible and while they want you to believe they are competitors for that market space they just don;t compare the practicality (SFA) and visibility of a Jeep Rubicon. But the 76 Wagon sure would compete, imo.

wesintl
01-08-2012, 12:08 AM
I think the problem with diesel in the states is the ULSD. I don't think other countries have ULSD (could be wrong), but it is a serious design challenge with regards to injection pumps.

The rest of the world was all ULSD probably 10 years before us. Europeans couldn't sell the latest cars here because of it. Just about every modern country was ULSD before us.

nakman
01-08-2012, 01:04 AM
I knew I liked Scott Brady. well said, thanks for that link! :cheers:

Jacket
01-08-2012, 09:20 AM
I specifically didn't include the 79 because I think the US market is saturated with trucks. That's one of the few things the big 3 do well at, and so for fleet/commercial needs I see them owning that market. :shrug:

What about a SWB cruiser (like Wes') to compete more directly with the Jeep crowd?

As far as the 76 goes, most foreign markets have the Fortuner (4Runner) and the Prado, yet Toyota still produces (and sells) the Land Cruiser wagon. What the foreign markets don't have are the Highlander and Sequoia.

black95
01-08-2012, 10:42 AM
The visibility in the FJC and 5th Gen 4runner are horrible and while they want you to believe they are competitors for that market space they just don;t compare the practicality (SFA) and visibility of a Jeep Rubicon.

I wasn't going to say it because I didn't want to get flogged... But I just have to laugh when they say the FJ Cruiser competes with the wrangler. If you've ever wheeled with a JK there is clearly NO comparison. The stock JK is pretty dang amazing, even without the Rubiqueen package.

So frustrating the options we're offered. The Tacoma has grown way oversized too, and all the auto makers seem to have forgotten the whole purpose of a small pickup is good mileage. Who wants to buy a Tacoma that gets 15 MPG's??? I look at Tacomas now and they remind me of the dimensions of a 90's Chevy truck.

Curious the visibility is bad in the new 4 runner, Haven't ridden in one of those yet. Rode in an FJ Cruiser, and even being 6'4" I could hardly see over that monster dash...

theboomboom
01-08-2012, 12:50 PM
I specifically didn't include the 79 because I think the US market is saturated with trucks. That's one of the few things the big 3 do well at, and so for fleet/commercial needs I see them owning that market.

This is true, fleet/commercial buyers do have more options than they need to choose from when it comes to full size trucks. But with Ford discontinuing the Ranger and Chevy bringing a new Colorado to the US market, there will not be any true compact pickup for sale in the US. Toyota really ought to consider the gap this leaves in the market. Heck, if an unknown company from India can stir up a ton of buzz by teasing the US market with a compact pickup, think about how receptive the market would be to a quality Toyota compact pickup...

subzali
01-08-2012, 12:54 PM
The rest of the world was all ULSD probably 10 years before us. Europeans couldn't sell the latest cars here because of it. Just about every modern country was ULSD before us.

Thanks for straightening me out Wes, I shouldn't rely on my memory so much...:boozer:

DaveInDenver
01-08-2012, 01:06 PM
The Federal CAFE standards forced the Ranger off the market. The new Ranger with the diesel available in other countries would be high on my list to replace my Hilux. But it did not get good enough mileage and would drag Ford's CAFE rating down. There was no way Ford was going to think of messing with the F150 sales.

I don't think the current Tacoma is too big, it's really not all that much larger than the Hilux and first gen Taco. A few inches here and there. My truck in 1991 was rated to get 20/17 and the equivalent Tacoma (4WD, Access Cab, 4 cylinder, 5 speed) is rated ironically 20/18 but is bigger and more powerful.

I've a couple of times thought a base Tacoma if we won the lottery. We are always knocking elbows on road trips, so the little extra space to me is a selling point.

subzali
01-08-2012, 01:24 PM
Yeah, at first I didn't like the Tacos because I thought they were too big. But then I think about how it's almost as big as my 1st gen Tundra but has a more fuel efficient V6 that has more hp than my 2UZ, plus I like the looks of the 4 doors, and at that point all I'm waiting for is the price to come down some...

Caribou Sandstorm
01-10-2012, 08:11 PM
I was at the gas station earlier today and a guy pulled up in a new 200 series.. Holy cow it seems so much smaller then the 100 series.

Then today a guy stopped by to pick up my 4runner rack in a nearly identical 4runner to mine.. I had to sit in it.. I fit in the 4runner like an old favorite shoe compared to the Land Cruiser but I would not trade the LC visibility now for anything except maybe a 70 series wagon..

wesintl
01-10-2012, 08:23 PM
I specifically didn't include the 79 because I think the US market is saturated with trucks. That's one of the few things the big 3 do well at, and so for fleet/commercial needs I see them owning that market. :shrug:

That probably the perception. The reality is there are companies that use the tundra in the oil fields of texas and else where because it holds up better than the domestics. No surprise there. A 79 would kill in that market just like it does in the mining industry.

sleeoffroad
01-11-2012, 07:58 AM
Personally I think there are so many external factors involved that Toyota would not even consider it. Imagine the research they have to do and $ spent to lower their average fuel mileage for the vehicles they sell. Now imagine how much that 79 series will drag it down. That alone probably does not make it worth it.

Then there is crash ratings. Watch the news. Seems like every 3 weeks there is another report on some crash testing that the insurance people do to prove what is good and what is not. How would that 70's technology fare in the crash testing and roll-over statistics? Not to talk about traction control they have to add. As well as tire pressure monitoring etc.

Unfortunately it is the demand of society that we have to live in bubbles and anything that can possibly hurt us should be avoided, or better yet develop a system that can avoid all the possible hurt and then mandate it for every car, that is obsoleting old vehicles.

I believe that Toyota would have a much better change by introducing a 25mpg diesel 4Runner & Tacoma. The Hilux in SA gets a rating of 9.7l/100km that is about 23mpg if I worked it out right.

There is also the issue of technician training, dealer support, parts and all the other internal issues with rolling out a new model.