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2nd Childhood
03-30-2012, 07:43 PM
Took my 78 FJ40 to the State Emissions Testing Station in Arvada on Tuesday. They found high HC levels at idle. Tested level was 454 limit is 400. I dumped some "Guaranteed to Pass" fluid into a full tank on the word of a younger co-worker who told me that the "Stuff" had dramatically reduced his HC level on his J**P when he was having troubles passing. I had recently changed Cap, Rotor, and plugs on a whim. They also nailed me on the gas cap not holding pressure. I will return next week to see if the "Stuff" helps.
Sad thing is, that when the Tech was looking over the engine compartment he said "No Air Pump"? I had to point out the pump to him, then he was attempting to place a sensor on the spark plug wire; looking on the drivers side he could not find one. I said " This in an In-Line 6. The plug wires on on this side."
I cannot feel a lot of confidence in the people who are suposed to make a living on testing emissions when they are not even familiar with the components of a vehicle.
Maybe I'll have better luck next week.

SteveH
03-30-2012, 08:58 PM
I would also consider adding a few gallons of E-85 fuel to your tank, to give it more oxygen to help with the HC levels.

I had a kid at Sears unlatch the windshield hold-down latches (in the middle of the hood) in an attempt to open the hood. How's that for clueless?

kurtnkegger
03-31-2012, 10:14 AM
I let my tank run down to less than a quarter tank, and added a bottle of rubbing alcohol before driving to the emissions place. Ran the test, and my HC levels dropped way down. Then went to the gas station and filled the tank. I passed, and back on the road. Is your timing set to factory specs?

2nd Childhood
03-31-2012, 12:12 PM
I will most likely look at the timing tomorrow. I have not checked it, but the last two years I have passed with flying colors. The plug gap that I set two weeks ago was .040 per recommended specifications. I have almost a factory LC it has almost no modifications. I think 175K miles?? Pretty rusty though, picked it up 2 years ago. Even had the working AM radio in it (less the speaker in the glove box).
Thanks for the tips.

I think that this is the last year I need to pass. I asked DMV last year to get classic plates and they said it was 35 years. I am tempted to go with headers after that, the cluster of emission devices all over the manifolds seems like it keeps heat from escaping in the hot summer months.

MDH33
03-31-2012, 01:40 PM
I think that this is the last year I need to pass. I asked DMV last year to get classic plates and they said it was 35 years. I am tempted to go with headers after that, the cluster of emission devices all over the manifolds seems like it keeps heat from escaping in the hot summer months.

I'm pretty sure that the new law is not 35 years or older, but rather it must be a pre-76 vehicle in order to obtain collector plates.

treerootCO
03-31-2012, 01:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that the new law is not 35 years or older, but rather it must be a pre-76 vehicle in order to obtain collector plates.

That is correct :(

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10860&highlight=Collector+plates

baileyfj40
03-31-2012, 04:16 PM
Been here few years back on less than quarter tank and on cooler day one gallon of denatured alcohol and it might pass or at least thats what I did when my fj40 had a dead cylinder and I moved to Park county.

My .02

Rezarf
04-01-2012, 08:47 AM
What does the alcohol do exactly? Never heard that trick before.

MDH33
04-01-2012, 09:14 AM
What does the alcohol do exactly? Never heard that trick before.

Same as adding Heet or E85 to an almost empty tank. As far as I understand, it burns cleaner and hotter than regular fuel and emits fewer HC's. You just wouldn't want to run it for longer than necessary. These aren't race car engines. :hill:

2nd Childhood
04-01-2012, 05:05 PM
Looked at the timing today. I have not timed a 2F since I was about 17 in auto shop class long ago. I even looked in the front, where most domestic engines were located back in the day (Dough). Then the hair on my neck stood up as I remembered that it was located on the flywheel. Low and behold there was the little dot barely visible in the window. I believe that the timing was much too advanced. I set the dot on the needle, but it seemed to run a little rough. I checked the "old school" 2F manual that I have. It showed to set the dot on the needle, but I set it about 3/8" lower than the needle and it seemed to run much better. I can remember that the timing had to be set different for high altitude. I think that it was suposed to be 4 degrees above top dead center, but I am not sure?
I will try the E85 before I take it back in for emissions:thumb:. Is that kind of fuel hard to find? I cant recall seeing it at the pump lately but I have not looked for it or noticed it.
Again thank you for all of the help and input. I only hear great things about this club and it's members.

subzali
04-01-2012, 07:36 PM
7* BTDC is when the BB is right at the needle. Around here a lot of us run with the BB situated a lot closer to the edge of the window, which is about 11* BTDC, but I think people have an easier time with the vehicle passing at 7* BTDC even though it doesn't run as well. Remember to cap the vacuum hose to your distributor when you're setting the base timing. I'm not sure where people buy E85, but it's gotta be around with all the flex fuel vehicles running around...

Tommy the Cat
04-01-2012, 08:30 PM
This may sound counter-intuitive but high HC levels are more likely caused by being too lean, as in a vacuum leak, than by being rich. Although being rich is a possibilty. There are a number of things that can contribute such as faulty/mistimed ignition, EGR dilution, oil getting past the rings, exhaust valves leaking and so on. I suggest you get your timing set and look for vacuum leaks. Changing your oil if it is old may help as well.

High CO is an indicator of a rich condition and you didn't say you had a problem with that so the E85 may very well compound your problem as it will cause you to be even leaner.

It would help us to diagnose what is going on if we knew what levels the other gases were at. Do you have those available?

SteveH
04-02-2012, 09:11 AM
The added alcohol (to the fuel) provides a great deal of oxygen, which helps pre-EFI vehicles more completely burn the fuel, and lower HCs (and possibly other emissions).

For EFI vehicles (99% of what's on the road), the added alcohol lowers fuel economy and does nothing for emissions, because the oxygen sensor already adapts the fuel/air mix for optimum combustion. Some EFI vehicles' emissions can be improved with large quantities of alcohol, so it *can* work on later trucks as a 'get you past the e-test' trick.

Tommy the Cat
04-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Adding oxygen to an engine that has a vacuum leak will make the situation worse. It may be just what he needs if his HC is high because it is rich but it's more likely it is high because of a vacuum leak. We really need to see the rest of the levels to know what's going on or your good intentions may make his situation worse.

2nd Childhood
04-03-2012, 07:47 PM
The CO level @ 2500 RPM was 1.05, Idle @ .25 Limits 1.50. That was passing.
When I timed the engine I did not plug the vacuum line. Is it both lines going to the distributor that should be plugged? I think that I used a golf tee back in the day? In order to pass I would think that given the information on this post, I should have the timing with the BB close to the needle with the lines plugged. I also think that when I have it tested I will pull the choke out slightly, to give it a higher RPM. If those guys cant find a plug wire, they surely won't know what a choke is.
On finding a vacuum leak? Is the old method of spraying carb cleaner in areas while listening to the idle for change a valid way? I cannot remember what I was told to spray around potential leaks to find one.

Again thanks fo all of the help and suggestions.

nattybumppo
04-04-2012, 05:23 AM
I don't know how all these additive-based tactics work, they always strike me as a weird approach, but when I take my 40 for emissions at the pre-81 emissions place at 37th and Federal, I set the mixture all the way lean and increase the idle to just under 1200. It breezes through no problem like that, but it reads too rich with the mixture and idle adjusted like they are supposed to be. I don't think I have any vaccum leaks though.

2nd Childhood
04-07-2012, 10:12 AM
Well, took the Cruiser back in after running "Guaranteed to Pass" in the tank for a week. The HC at idle went down to 96.1 from 454. At 2500 RPM it tested at 42.5. I don't think the stuff worked that good. I really think that they made a mistake while testing. I adjusted my choke to increase the idle, which I think helped out. I will re-adjust the timing. I think that it was running better the way it was with the BB on the edge of the window.

Thanks again for all of the help.

subzali
04-07-2012, 07:51 PM
so you passed though right?

2nd Childhood
04-08-2012, 05:43 PM
yes i did!!!! Flying colors. Thank you all