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Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 11:49 AM
Well, looks like we need a bit of a mid course adjustment. The pop up just won't cut it for doing the dog show circuit... no toitie nor shower.

A bigger trailer might work... but then the Green Chili might struggle a bit to pull it. And Red Chili might too... adjustments, adjustments.

So it looks like the Starcraft 10 R/T will be sold, and the Green Chili, to be replaced with a diesel pickup and pickup camper (used of course). The combo should work well with Lise's dog showing, plus I can flat tow the Chili wherever, plus I can pull bikes wherever.

We got inspired when we swung by Holiday RV in Poncha Springs and they showed us around their used stuff, low pressure, good folks, and they often get trucks AND campers all set up with low miles. The numbers work. Things that make you go Hmmm..... Hmmm.....

SO... I do NOT know full size diesels. Most of you fellers run Dodge, correct? Is the savings of a 5.9L offset by more torque in the 6.7L? I had a Powerstroke, and was not terribly impressed all in all (but it was a '97 older body style...). What do you Ford fellers have to say in your defense?

Last I heard about Dodge, there were front brake reliability and transmission issues around 100K miles or so, is this not true?

I would hope to find something around 70K-120K miles to keep the price down. Issues? Things to be on guard about/ look for?

So, O opining ones.... opine!!

subzali
05-07-2012, 12:02 PM
I know of several Duramax's in the club. So don't leave them out of the race just yet.

Beater
05-07-2012, 12:14 PM
talk to me offline on green chile -

SteveH
05-07-2012, 12:15 PM
I bought a Crew/short 7.3 2001 Powerstroke F350. At the time, Tundras were too expensive (and not 3/4 ton), Dodge didn't offer a true crew-cab (in an affordable year), and there were few-to-no Duramax trucks for sale. I'm a Ford guy anyway. The Dodges I test drove had a lot of trim issues (broken down seats, broken switches, mirrors, etc.) and even more lifeless and dead steering than the Ford. The 7.3 is time-tested, but noisy and not particularly powerful. It has all the power I need, but it's not for racing. It's reliable and relatively cheaper to fix than newer stuff. I wouldn't buy a 6.0 ('03-07) Ford no matter what, in spite of their impressive power and the 5 speed auto trans.

All domestic trucks like this have auto transmission issues and front brake issues. Mine had new tires, new brakes, and a rebuilt trans, and I would look for all or most of those in any truck you buy.

I don't use my Ford as a daily driver - too big, to hard to park, too expensive to drive, etc. If you can swing this sort of truck as a weekend warrior, you'll like it a lot more. As a family vacation-mobile, it's hard to beat. Loads of room and 16-17 mpg towing a smallish trailer. I love being able to tow junk cars and loads of gravel, and not have white knuckles, as I did behind my Toyotas.

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 12:46 PM
It has to serve as a DD, since it would replace the 97 4Runner. But... my DD activities usually mean parking in an RTD lot in Aspen Park. I would need a longbed (for camper room) crew or Xtracab. My '97 was a shortbed crew, so I am familiar with it.

I didn't like $50 oil changes (done myself... good grief) but with synthetics I could stretch that quite a bit. Plusses and minusses.
I wouldn't buy a 6.0 ('03-07) Ford no matter what, ...
Why not? Say more. Mine was a 7.3 and it was noisy and had cold idle issues that Courtesy was clueless to fix. Not to mention, the new paint on the hood cracked in the sun and required a repaint. Call me Yota spoiled.
All domestic trucks like this have auto transmission issues and front brake issues.
SERIOUSLY? Ugh. That badly built??

Beater
05-07-2012, 12:50 PM
oh - stroker fan here, but not that travesty of a second generation motor. get the new one, or the older 7.3.

especially the king ranch if you can find one.


as to steve's comments, yes all domestics suck at the brake and slushbox, even the allison with the chebby. HOWEVER, most of it can be attributed to driver error or at least say the manufacturers.

With the fords and chebbys, like the toyota's, turn off your overdrive in harsh conditions and life is better.

dodges have very low build quality.

RockRunner
05-07-2012, 01:01 PM
I will give you my info later when I have a normal keyboard. Biggest question is how much do you want to spend, that decides what you can buy and what we need discuss as far as year and model.

wesintl
05-07-2012, 01:10 PM
my 50c is the dodges are loud and ride rough and everything falls apart except for the cummins. The duramax's are quieter and ride much better. Nothin on Ferd's

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 02:06 PM
Interesting, apparently the Allison auto is the most reliable of the bunch. Besides a manual. I can just picture Lise driving a manual diesel truck with a camper.

Not.

:lmao:

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 02:18 PM
:homer:
aaaauuuuggghhhhhh...... (OK, just how DO you spell Homer drooling?)
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/1201dp_10_best_used_diesel_trucks/viewall.html

@Tom, prices around 100K miles on cars.com look to be in the budget more or less.

SteveH
05-07-2012, 02:33 PM
Bill - yes - Ford paint is crap and my synthetic oil changes are $80. The 7.3 isn't perfect, but most of its problems are known and understood. The 6.0s suffer a myriad of problems, most of which are expensive to fix. If anyone chipped the truck, it was almost for sure to suffer blown headgaskets. The oil coolers and EGR systems are chronically bad, resulting in engine failure. The variable vane turbos tend to clog with soot unless you run the truck hard. Chronic fuel injector and HPOP problems, requiring thousands of dollars to fix. For $8K, there's a shop in AZ that will 'go through' the engine and fix/replace/remove all the evil parts and replace with new. Some argue that if you find a 6.0 and the OASIS report (Ford's in-house tracking system for a vehicle) is clean, then you might be ok. In many farm state areas, dealers will not take 6.0s in trade - at all. I have met MANY 6.0 owners who have implored me to keep my 7.3 and wish they had done so with theirs. You will meet folks with totally reliable 6.0s, and disasterous 7.3s - so YMMV. www.ford-trucks.com has forums for this stuff.

J Kimmel
05-07-2012, 03:20 PM
Wouldn't give up my Duramax for anything. 95 thousand trouble free miles.

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 03:46 PM
A friend here at work confirmed the Duramax with Allison tranny is trouble free - except, maybe, the turbo system which can be expensive. Still, he would go Chevy even though he is a 7.3 Powerstroke fan. I see the PSs started using powdered metal rods in 2001... then the 6.0... then got much much better around 2008.

Dunno. But thank for the Duramax comments, that puts it on the screen and maybe the head of the pack. So why the heck are Dodges so popular (and commonplace) with their issues?

:popcorn:

DenCo40
05-07-2012, 03:52 PM
My $0.02:
I bought a 5.7 Tundra to pull my 40. Good on gas and plenty of power for a V8. Has a pretty good payload and can pull over 10K. I like the big 1 ton diesels but I'm not pulling around flatbed trailers with tractors on them either so its a little overkill for me.

PhatFJ
05-07-2012, 06:43 PM
Bill, I have owned both Dodge and Ford. I bought the Dodge new in 1995, drove it for work and light towing. The breaks were the worst of any vehicle I have ever owned, I think that the auto had a lot to do with that as it would pull hard to a stop. Dodge was the worst service provider I have ever had and I will never own a new Dodge again, when I went to them with a problem like having to rev the engine to get it to go into reverse, they said "that is the way it was designed" and would do nothing to help, just one example, there were more. The Ford is a 1999 F-350 with the 7.3 Powerstroke, I bought it used in 2010 with 120K on it, it had cold start and CPS issues but I soon chipped it with a user programable setup so I can change the programing when and if I make modifications, it has different tow settings and runs like BOH. The tranny issue is easy to deal with if you catch it before you hurt it, add a cooler!! and I installed a manual torque convertor lockup switch on it to help with cooling. From what I have been told it is the torque convertor that goes and takes out the tranny, I have bought a billet convertor with a triple disk lockup and will be installing it soon.. The axles on mine are off of an 04 with manual hubs and disks on all 4, the breaks are fantastic and there is no problem going with bigger tires with the manual hubs.. Anyhow, I LOVE my PS 7.3 and I think it will last me a very long time...

ttubb
05-07-2012, 08:35 PM
I will chime in about the Dodge. I had a 2004.5 (at the mid-year they upgraded the engine with piston cooling nozzles and more torque) and it has been the best vehicle I have ever owned. Mine was a 2500 3/4 ton crew cab, Laramie model with all options.
Early models had brake issues, I replaced my brakes at 100k, and they still had meat. Tires lasted 75k. I had a 16 ft enclosed trailer and a car hauler plus a 28 ft Airstream that I towed regularly. At 100 k I had valves adusted, other than that, no issues. I used this truck regularly in Crested Butte, towing at 10,000 feet elevation with no power issues.

I sold it to my son along with the car hauler and he is using it to tow his 4Runner. He is very happy with the truck with 140k on the clock now.

I have heard later models had emissions issues, but if you can find a 2004.5 or newer with the 5.9 engine, you will be happy. Cummins builds a great engine. Cummins recommend overhaul at 300k.

At 65 mph (auto trans) and not towing, I would get 21mpg. Towing a heavy rig, I would get 13-15 mpg. Hope this helps. Terry

One more thing - The Dodge has a heated intake manifold, not glow-plugs, and it always started in very cold temps. Not so with Fords. That is one reason you see so many in Colorado. T

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 08:39 PM
My $0.02:
I bought a 5.7 Tundra to pull my 40. Good on gas and plenty of power for a V8. Has a pretty good payload and can pull over 10K. I like the big 1 ton diesels but I'm not pulling around flatbed trailers with tractors on them either so its a little overkill for me.
I'm thinking
1) longevity (ok, toyota vs. diesel, meh, same same),
2) crew or at least generous extra cab,
3) torque for a truck camper (wind resistance) + flat towing, and mileage while doing it to boot.

That kinda adds up to a diesel, no?

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 08:41 PM
bill, I Have Owned Both Dodge And Ford. ... It Had Cold Start And Cps Issues But I Soon Chipped It With A User Programable Setup So I Can Change The Programing When And If I Make Modifications, It Has Different Tow Settings And Runs Like Boh. ...anyhow, I Love My Ps 7.3 And I Think It Will Last Me A Very Long Time...
Cps?

[edit] ah... crank position sensor. Google reveals all.

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 08:48 PM
I will chime in about the Dodge. I had a 2004.5 ...
I have heard later models had emissions issues, but if you can find a 2004.5 or newer with the 5.9 engine, you will be happy.
I was waiting for a Mopar perspective. OK, so 2004.5 to ???
So the 6.7L has emissions issues, is that what you are saying? What are they? Did you also add a tranny cooler?

I need a long bed*. Gonna be a long truck.

This is fun, hearin' you guys pimp yer rides. :grinpimp:



*(camper room inside, room for a dog grooming table and kennels inside. Lise's dad had a cramped truck camper so she is gunshy about cramped. I really appreciate her willingness to compromise - a truck camper means I can flat tow or bring dirt bikes.)

RockRunner
05-07-2012, 08:57 PM
Bill I researched this all very well 3 years ago and all of the big three have/had there problems. I had decided on a Duramax for the most part when I drove to Moab with Randy in his 07.5 Dodge 6.7. I was very impressed with the power and the stock exhaust brake. Uphill with camper and truck at 70 mph and downhill at 65 without using he brakes. I bought one a few weeks later.

Dodges used to be crappy on the inside but have gotten much nicer. You can also check with Gary W. he had an 07 and bought a 2012 that is awesome.

You need to look for he years that will fit your budget and research the years you can afford, best advice I can give you

ttubb
05-07-2012, 09:07 PM
Quote - "So the 6.7L has emissions issues, is that what you are saying? What are they? Did you also add a tranny cooler?

I need a long bed*. Gonna be a long truck.

This is fun, hearin' you guys pimp yer rides. :grinpimp:"

I did not have a tranny cooler (mine was an auto) and I am not certain when they went from 5.8 to the 6.7 engine. I do know that the later engines did have some early emissions issues that involved tweaks to the ECM, but I do not think they were persistant problems. I know at the time I was researching my purchase, Ford was total trouble (FORD = Found On Road Dead - was the joke). :D Hope this helps.

One other thing, on the forums I subscibed to at the time, lots of folks were using boxes that modified the ECM (Bully Dog, etc) on Ford, Chevy and Dodge and many were having reliability problems. I would avoid one that has been "chipped" at all costs. Just my take...T

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 09:27 PM
Yeah, the ideal truck will have been one driven by an older gentleman who went camping and fishing a few times a year... especially if already set up for a camper.

NOT one with big tires and a chip. :eek:

I came across a couple Powerstrokes today that were older and close to my price but with ~20K miles (!!!). Of course, they were LONG gone...

I just need to work out the numbers with the credit union and be ready to pounce. If anyone wants a line on a very clean Starcraft 10 R/T lemme know.

Red_Chili
05-07-2012, 09:48 PM
Bill I researched this all very well 3 years ago and all of the big three have/had there problems. I had decided on a Duramax for the most part when I drove to Moab with Randy in his 07.5 Dodge 6.7. OK, Randy's Dodge is nice, but why over the Duramax?

nakman
05-07-2012, 10:06 PM
...
I just need to work out the numbers with the credit union and be ready to pounce. If anyone wants a line on a very clean Starcraft 10 R/T lemme know.

Does it have the front deck like the Coleman E2? If so, how many motorcycles would fit on it? I remember going in there once in Ouray to use the microwave, was very nice...

Red_Chili
05-08-2012, 09:09 AM
No, the 10 R/T is the one without a deck (or I would be SORELY tempted to keep it as the bigger one also has a shower and that would solve our issues). The Chili would struggle a bit to haul the bigger R/T series. They are quite rugged with a square tube frame rather than C channel, and that means they will last longer on rough roads, but that means they are a bit heavier too.

Mine is the top of the line with all options (double LPG tank cover, privacy curtains, an exterior 110-volt outlet, manual fold-down double entry step, 15-inch spare tire and wheel, a 12-volt Fantastic roof vent fan, and sand pads on the stabilizer jacks, electric brakes, 16,000-BTU furnace, an RVQ carry-out gas grill that attaches to the side of the trailer, and aluminum wheels.) The awning was not terribly well designed and I have removed it.

Really great beds. The queen on one end is nice.

Here is a good review:
http://www.campinglife.com/rv-and-trailer-reviews/trailer-reviews/starcraft-10-rt/

Pic:
http://www.campinglife.com/images-content/1049329_Starcraft.jpg

http://images.internetrader.com/PHOTOS/0031800/640x480/0031894F.JPG

DaveInDenver
05-08-2012, 10:10 AM
What's that worth on the pre-loved market Bill?

Red_Chili
05-08-2012, 10:24 AM
Well, per NADA I see numbers that pretty much match ads I've seen recently...
http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2006/Starcraft/M-10-206/Standard-Equipment

Pricing
Suggested List Price Low Retail Average Retail
Base Price: $8,526 $3,900 $4,700
TOTAL PRICE $8,526 $4,910 $5,925
It is super clean in excellent condition, 2006.

Oh, and I added a receiver in the rear for a bike rack...
EDIT: OOPS! Misstated the year. It is actually a 2004. Not that that makes any difference, but truth in disclosure and that sort of thing...

wesintl
05-08-2012, 11:38 AM
That's a great camper for someone with a cruiser or runner. small enough to tow yet big enough to stay in. I would have bought that in a heartbeat if I didn't have my E1. IMHO there is really nothing on the market that is a 10ft box with no deck like that. I also really liked the fan in the roof. It kept it cooler. I almost had one before I bought my e1 but i was second in line.

DaveInDenver
05-08-2012, 12:43 PM
Roughly $5.5K, just curious.

Red_Chili
05-08-2012, 02:06 PM
Lower to RS members.
[edit] Corbet is first in line.

nattybumppo
05-08-2012, 04:15 PM
OK, Randy's Dodge is nice, but why over the Duramax?

Didn't Randy trade that in and get a Ford last year?

FJBRADY
05-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Didn't Randy trade that in and get a Ford last year?

Yes he did.

As mentioned before, don't rule out a 07+ tundra with the 5.7. That is what I tow the 40 with and it has plenty of power. I think I bew past NattyB on Sunday......:bolt:

Air Randy
05-08-2012, 06:25 PM
I've had every brand of diesel pickup at one time or another since I got my 1986 Ford with a non-turbo diesel. My two cents:

If you go with a Dodge go with an 2007.5 or newer. That gets you the 6.7 diesel instead of the 5.9. The 6.7 will walk away from any 5.9 towing unless the 5.9 is heavily modified. Plus, the 6.7 equipped units have the new 5 speed automatic that is integrated into the standard exhaust brake. That tranny is equal to the allison as far as strength and reliability and the exhaust brake is the best in the industry hands down. A good running 6.7 will out tow a comparable Ford or GM truck. Dodge's quality has improved as far as the cabs and interior but still just below Ford/GM in fit & finish, they are also slightly smaller than a similar GM/Ford. Dodge fixed the CEL issue with the early 6.7's via ECM SW changes. The Dodges are notorious for needing the ball joints replaced up front at 65K to 80K miles. If you replace them with the good after market units then it's fixed for a long time. The other downside to me is the Dodge's do not offer a locking hub up front so the front drive train turns all of the time (Ford & GM's have hubs). Comparable rigs, the Dodge will always be the least expensive. Comparable rigs, the Dodge will usually have slightly less fuel economy because of the emissions system they use. They inject fuel behind the turbo on the exhaust stroke so it burns in the DPF to burn out the soot. It impacts fuel MPG by 1-2 mpg compared to a Ford or GM. However on a newer Ford/GM you have to buy urea fluid every 2500 miles ($12 for 3 gallons at Walmart) whereas the Dodge does not require urea.

As far as Fords, assuming you want a newer style unit, stay away from the 6.0 units. Beautiful trucks but the owner that has a 6.0 that hasn't blown up or suffered major issues are the exception. Ask me how I know. Ford also made a 6.4 truck for 2-3 years, these were also International diesels that had twin turbos and suffered few of the issues the 6.0 had. They were very powerful but their fuel mileage was horrible. I have the new 6.7 diesel Ford calls the Scorpion, actually made by Ford. So far the entire truck has been perfect, only time will tell. The Ford has an excellent automatic tranny with a factory trailer brake controller integrated into the electronics of the engine/tranny. When you have your trailer plugged in it senses it and adjusts your shift points to maximize power while increasing tranny line pressure to make shifts firmer, less slipping, less heat, etc. It also controls the exhaust brake on downhills. The Ford exhaust brake works OK and will hold my truck with camper/trailer/FJ40 going down the Georgetown grade in 4th gear at 65mph without touching the brakes. But, it doesn't hold a candle to the exhaust brake on the Dodge. Fuel economy is better than the Dodge and about the same as a GM. Pulling power I would say is ever so slightly less than my Dodge. With the same camper/trailer/FJ40 the Dodge would hit the tunnel going West at 70mph whereas the Ford is only doing 60-65. The Ford is probably the most expensive of the 3 but has by far the nicest interior, the most room and the smoothest ride.

The GM/Chevys are also great trucks. Some of the older ones had minor engine issues but nothing like the 6.0 Fords. The allison trannys have always been very strong. In an empty truck drag race the GM will always win with the Ford in 2nd and the Dodge 3rd. Loaded, pulling 12K it would probably be Dodge, GM then Ford across the finish line. Interior fit & finish is good (body by Fisher, right?). Gm's exhaust brake is better than the Ford but not as good as the Dodge, plus only the newer GM's have an exhaust brake. If you will be towing it is worth getting a truck equipped with one. The only reason I didn't buy a new one last year was I preferred the Ford's exterior look and Motorola employees got a huge discount from Ford.

All of the new trucks are rated at 400 hp and about 450 ft lbs of torque. You would be happy with any brand you choose. A unmodified truck that has been well maintained up to 100k miles is just getting broke in. If you find a truck you have questions about, give me a call.

Convert
05-08-2012, 09:24 PM
I purchased a 01 Ford 7.3 low mileage and very clean if I might say. I looked at all brands and you should do the research. Chevy Dmax/Allison are very hard to find or beat, Ford 7.3 powerstroke 99 till 03 are great , but the Dodges don't get very good reviews for fit and finish (engine is strong Cummins is bad ass but the rest is weak


I would go with a 1 ton deisel truck not a 3/4 ton. Weight on truck campers can be and is deceiving . My 1999 S&S Camper is 2850 lbs dry weight Not very heavy till its loaded and wet. Toss Red Chili on a trailer and you are there.

Red_Chili
05-08-2012, 10:12 PM
Good info all, especially Randy, thank you much. The nicer newer Dodges look to be a bit over my price range unless it was a high miler. So if I found a low miler it would likely be a 5.9. Bad choice?

Yep, learned enough this week to stay away from the 6.0 Fords. I did find a '00 7.3L with 80K miles/ 1 owner for a nice price, but very basic trim package including crank windows. Air was (thankfully) added. That would save quite a bit... but... I hope to live with this thing for 10-20 years. It would be nice to have SOME creature comforts.

My credit union is now on the hunt for a truck, and if I go through them I save another 1% on the loan, which I am pre-approved for. So sooner or later it will happen. Not to say it wouldn't be worth it to jump on a low mileage one!

We'll see... :popcorn:

Red_Chili
05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
Yes he did.

As mentioned before, don't rule out a 07+ tundra with the 5.7. That is what I tow the 40 with and it has plenty of power. I think I bew past NattyB on Sunday......:bolt:
Mmm, I dunno... premium price, not diesel... Mileage lugging a truck camper around plus the occasional flat tow?

FJBRADY
05-09-2012, 05:56 AM
Mmm, I dunno... premium price, not diesel... Mileage lugging a truck camper around plus the occasional flat tow?

Just realized you want to put a camper on the truck in addition to pulling a trailer.....stay away from a fuely, go desiel.

Beater
05-09-2012, 07:05 AM
bill - i am prejudice on the 7.3's from when I worked for fomoco. All I'll say is just how many international 4500/4700 trucks do you see still doing duty (same motor), how many ambulances do you see that are 7.3's, etc etc.

The glow plug issue has one simple fix. Either wait for the flipping light to go out, or plug it in below 30 deg.

as for the tranny, add a cooler and your fine.

as for suspension, yeah, it's leaf, but they are super stable and can actually handle rough duty. we all know about the problems dodge had with it's 3 link on the early/mid dodges.

having own a chevy fueler 3/4ton, I can tell you that they are nice on the highway. Ford didn't pay attention to the creature comforts until the mid 2000's.

If I were looking, and cost was an issue, I would jump on the first 7.3 I could find with no gooseneck in the back, with a documented history.

ScaldedDog
05-09-2012, 08:11 AM
What Beater said...

We've had our '01 Excursion for 9 years, and I hope to own it at least 10+ more. The original tranny only lasted 17K, as the early '01's had a known problem that tended to take them out at a young age. The Ford reman replacement lasted exactly 100K before the coast clutches went out. I replaced it with a BTS, though Ford now makes a 4R100HD that wouldn't be a bad choice, and is less money. As Johnny said, a tranny cooler helps a lot, and is cheap.

Other than the tranny, maintenance hasn't been too bad, and I could do just about all the work myself. Most of it has been brakes, front axle service, fixing exhaust and boost leaks, etc. If you decide you want more power, the cost of ownership starts to go up, though is still way cheaper than a $65K new one.

The problem with the 7.3's is that people know what they have. I'm not at all interested in selling, but if I were I'd want a fortune, and would likely get it.

Mark

Red_Chili
05-09-2012, 08:26 AM
bill - i am prejudice on the 7.3's from when I worked for fomoco. All I'll say is just how many international 4500/4700 trucks do you see still doing duty (same motor), how many ambulances do you see that are 7.3's, etc etc.

The glow plug issue has one simple fix. Either wait for the flipping light to go out, or plug it in below 30 deg.

as for the tranny, add a cooler and your fine.

as for suspension, yeah, it's leaf, but they are super stable and can actually handle rough duty. we all know about the problems dodge had with it's 3 link on the early/mid dodges.
...
If I were looking, and cost was an issue, I would jump on the first 7.3 I could find with no gooseneck in the back, with a documented history.
On my 97 PS... Though I was irritated at the Ford dealer's inability to fix a cold weather idle issue, and also at the new paint that cracked on the hood requiring a repaint (under warranty, but still...)... that was then and this was now. My mech skilz have improved, and then I was hankering for a wheeler so the PS went. Now I find myself wishing I still had that thing. I found the ride just fine and hell for stout, and creature comforts, if a tad Neanderthal and supersized, were fine. 17mpg no matter where or how I drove. I plugged it in every winter night and had no troubles there.

Yer making me think I should jump on that affordable base model I found... Came across another one with 20K miles (not a typo), but of course it was as gone as an F14 hittin' the burners... Bird in hand, birds in bush... dunno.

What Beater said...

We've had our '01 Excursion for 9 years, and I hope to own it at least 10+ more. The original tranny only lasted 17K, as the early '01's had a known problem that tended to take them out at a young age. The Ford reman replacement lasted exactly 100K before the coast clutches went out. I replaced it with a BTS, though Ford now makes a 4R100HD that wouldn't be a bad choice, and is less money. As Johnny said, a tranny cooler helps a lot, and is cheap.

Other than the tranny, maintenance hasn't been too bad, and I could do just about all the work myself. Most of it has been brakes, front axle service, fixing exhaust and boost leaks, etc. If you decide you want more power, the cost of ownership starts to go up, though is still way cheaper than a $65K new one.

The problem with the 7.3's is that people know what they have. I'm not at all interested in selling, but if I were I'd want a fortune, and would likely get it.

Mark
Thanks for the input. From what I have found, despite their numbers, despite ruling out any 6.0L, there are more Fords in my price range than Dodges.

If anyone has a line on one, dinner is on me.

[edit] Hmmm, lotsa knowledge here. I think we need a diesel forum kinda like the moto forum... There's a lot of knowledge, but also a lot of BS out there on them interwebs. :lmao:

ScaldedDog
05-09-2012, 08:41 AM
Bill, there was a thread on colorado4x4.org recently - which I now can't seem to find - about a guy looking for the same kind of truck you are. He had to have a crew cab, but guys were finding all kinds of nice looking extra cabs for him on Craigslist, up and down the front range. If an x-cab will do, I bet you can find something nice.

Mark

Red_Chili
05-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Yeah, XCab is actually preferable. Crew with a long box requires two parking spaces... :lmao:

Beater
05-09-2012, 01:42 PM
153" wheelbase is HUGE 135 is bad enough

Red_Chili
05-09-2012, 01:48 PM
Kinda ends any disagreements about who gets a garage spot don't it? :lmao:

My '97 was a crew short box and it barely fit in the barn. Had to fold the mirror. There is no hope of fitting anything like that where we are.

It was never a point of disagreement though. :Princess: gets the warm covered ice-free protection.

Air Randy
05-09-2012, 04:55 PM
On my 97 PS... Though I was irritated at the Ford dealer's inability to fix a cold weather idle issue, and also at the new paint that cracked on the hood requiring a repaint (under warranty, but still...)... that was then and this was now. My mech skilz have improved, and then I was hankering for a wheeler so the PS went. Now I find myself wishing I still had that thing. I found the ride just fine and hell for stout, and creature comforts, if a tad Neanderthal and supersized, were fine. 17mpg no matter where or how I drove. I plugged it in every winter night and had no troubles there.

Yer making me think I should jump on that affordable base model I found... Came across another one with 20K miles (not a typo), but of course it was as gone as an F14 hittin' the burners... Bird in hand, birds in bush... dunno.


Thanks for the input. From what I have found, despite their numbers, despite ruling out any 6.0L, there are more Fords in my price range than Dodges.

If anyone has a line on one, dinner is on me.

[edit] Hmmm, lotsa knowledge here. I think we need a diesel forum kinda like the moto forum... There's a lot of knowledge, but also a lot of BS out there on them interwebs. :lmao:

Dont get me wrong, I had a 2000 powerstroke and it was a great truck, never had an issue and it towed like a beast. You can also add an after market exhaust brake for $200 that works really well. My only concern would be finding one that doesn't have a bazillion miles on it or is beat to hell. Give Jeremy Kimmel a call, one of his friends does nothing but locate and buy/sell used vehicles all over the US. If anyone can find what you want it would be him. And, he himself drives a 2001 PSD so he knows exactly what you would be looking for.

Red_Chili
05-09-2012, 06:04 PM
Thanks, Randy... currently my credit union gives a 1% discount on the loan, plus waiver of any dealer handling, if I go with their auto buyer. It's only been a day, I've been feeding him what I've found instead of vice versa (hmmm...), but I will give him a shot first to save a buck or three.

Good to know about the exhaust brake. Is it muffled/quiet? Many municipalities require it (for obvious reasons).

Air Randy
05-09-2012, 06:54 PM
Thanks, Randy... currently my credit union gives a 1% discount on the loan, plus waiver of any dealer handling, if I go with their auto buyer. It's only been a day, I've been feeding him what I've found instead of vice versa (hmmm...), but I will give him a shot first to save a buck or three.

Good to know about the exhaust brake. Is it muffled/quiet? Many municipalities require it (for obvious reasons).

Yes, very quiet. Even though it is an exhaust brake it is not a Jake brake like the big rigs run that make that annoying BBBBRRRAAAAPPP sound every time it kicks in. On the 7.3 there is actually a flap in the downpipe behind the turbo that applies on cold days to help speed warm up. Banks Engineering sells a kit that take about 2 hours to install that uses a servo to close that flap. It makes a hissing sound you just hear in the truck but it makes the rig slow down like the brakes a depressed halfway. It has a basic on-off switch, but when it is turned on it senses when you lift your foot off of the gas pedal and applies the exhaust brake until you press the accelerator again. It was the best mod I did to my 7.3.

nattybumppo
05-09-2012, 07:02 PM
Yes he did.

As mentioned before, don't rule out a 07+ tundra with the 5.7. That is what I tow the 40 with and it has plenty of power. I think I bew past NattyB on Sunday......:bolt:

Yes you did...but I still got home...even with a 2F!

Red_Chili
05-10-2012, 07:42 AM
Yes, very quiet. Even though it is an exhaust brake it is not a Jake brake like the big rigs run that make that annoying BBBBRRRAAAAPPP sound every time it kicks in. On the 7.3 there is actually a flap in the downpipe behind the turbo that applies on cold days to help speed warm up. Banks Engineering sells a kit that take about 2 hours to install that uses a servo to close that flap. It makes a hissing sound you just hear in the truck but it makes the rig slow down like the brakes a depressed halfway. It has a basic on-off switch, but when it is turned on it senses when you lift your foot off of the gas pedal and applies the exhaust brake until you press the accelerator again. It was the best mod I did to my 7.3.
Ewww, kewl! Worth two bones for sure. Ya know, I bet that flap was involved in my weird cold weather idle issue in the '97, guessing by your description.

Like I say, my mech skilz have improved immensely in the last 10 years and such things just don't freak me out like they did. Parts is parts. Systems is systems. Only so many ways to skin a cat.

BTW the auto buyer guy is bringing a truck by for me to test drive today... :drool:
6 speed manual. Lise said she was OK with that. Just seems simpler too.

ScaldedDog
05-10-2012, 08:37 AM
If you get a 7.3 and decide to chip it, some programmers offer a decel tune that operates the flap (EBPV) and locks up the torque converter. It's cheap, at $45, and works well. As I mentioned earlier, though, the decision to chip your truck is a decision to spend more money. Whether you know that ahead of time, or not. [sigh]

Mark

Red_Chili
05-10-2012, 09:08 AM
So tell the tale behind that sigh!

J Kimmel
05-10-2012, 09:23 AM
you're going to buy a transmission eventually behind a 7.3 chipped, and you need gauges, should have an intake and exhaust to go with it as well.

SteveH
05-10-2012, 09:24 AM
I'll chime in on chipping. To chip my '01 7.3 (intelligently) requires 3 gauges - boost, EGT, and trans temp ($325-$600 set). Then, 4" exhaust ($300). Then, a DP Tuner with some tunes ($300-500). A bigger air filter varies from $80-$300. Then careful monitoring of the transmission to be sure you're not overheating or blowing it up. I really don't need the power for my towing, and just am not sweating it. If I ever buy a much heavier trailer, then perhaps I will do this. For now, reliability and 'stock' are working for me and I don't want to tamper with that.

The $300 'Hypertech' programmer type things are not really the way to go - they're cheap, but often set codes and don't come close to what a good chip setup can do, performance-wise. You get what you pay for.

Red_Chili
05-10-2012, 09:26 AM
... reliability and 'stock' are working for me and I don't want to tamper with that. ...
That would be my goal as well. Perhaps intake and exhaust - only makes sense with a turbo - but I hate loud diesels.

Red_Chili
05-10-2012, 10:54 AM
Ooo, between the auto buyer guy and me, we may have found something...
28670
Could be... Lariat trim package, 7.3L, not a terrible ODO reading, under what I had hoped to pay... we shall see.

Oooo, and comes with a CDM!! And what are sure to be durable rock sliders!! :lmao:

Beater
05-10-2012, 11:22 AM
I have never understood modding diesel pickups. I mean seriously, who tows 15k all the time in a recreational, non backhoe loaded trailer, 3 car hauler manner?

these motors are all MONSTERS from the factory, be they 6.9 dodges, 7.3 ps's or duramax.

best smokey burnout I have ever done though was in a 7.3 van, stripped (svc truck). just sayin..

Air Randy
05-10-2012, 12:14 PM
That looks pretty sweet Bill, hope it works out.

I also would not recommend chipping that 7.3 if you get it, especially since it does have some miles on it. You will love it even totally stock and you won't tear stuff up. Just get the most cost effective exhaust brake that works well (either the auto or the manual will work great) and you'll be happy.

Corbet
05-10-2012, 01:12 PM
Banks Engineering sells a kit that take about 2 hours to install that uses a servo to close that flap. It makes a hissing sound you just hear in the truck but it makes the rig slow down like the brakes a depressed halfway. It has a basic on-off switch, but when it is turned on it senses when you lift your foot off of the gas pedal and applies the exhaust brake until you press the accelerator again. It was the best mod I did to my 7.3.

We would install a similar kit on our car haulers at the dealership when I worked in Vail but from a different company. Worked great and was quiet. The 7.3 does not need to be "tuned" IMO. I trailered plenty of rigs big and small through the tunnel and over Vail Pass with a number of bone stock 7.3's with no complaints.

J Kimmel
05-10-2012, 01:35 PM
I have never understood modding diesel pickups. I mean seriously, who tows 15k all the time in a recreational, non backhoe loaded trailer, 3 car hauler manner?

these motors are all MONSTERS from the factory, be they 6.9 dodges, 7.3 ps's or duramax.

best smokey burnout I have ever done though was in a 7.3 van, stripped (svc truck). just sayin..

My old 7.3 (1997) was a dog. Tuning really woke it up and made towing through the mountains more enjoyable. My Duramax is just fine bone stock, but I chipped it anyhow. It tows incredible, but still not as strong as the newer generations.

Red_Chili
05-10-2012, 03:06 PM
Ooo, between the auto buyer guy and me, we may have found something...
28672
Could be... Lariat trim package, 7.3L, not a terrible ODO reading, under what I had hoped to pay... we shall see.

Oooo, and comes with a CDM!! And what are sure to be durable rock sliders!! :lmao:
Well Gentlemen... meet Shadowfax, the newest member to the club.
Drove it and bought it over (long) lunch hour. 116K miles. She shall not be chipped.

Dark Shadow Gray, what else could I name it?? Guess I broke my Mexican Food tradition.

Beater is first in line for Green Chili, followed by a friend of Rudy who just happens to work at the auto broker.

nakman
05-10-2012, 04:15 PM
right on Bill, congrats! How about carne gris sin fichas? (grey meat with no chips!)

someone'll come up with a better one.. good luck with the chili sale!

J Kimmel
05-10-2012, 05:04 PM
who'd you buy it from? I'm wondering if I know them

Corbet
05-10-2012, 05:17 PM
Congrats on the truck. Looks like I might be seeing it soon;)

PhatFJ
05-10-2012, 05:22 PM
NICE Bill!!

Red_Chili
05-10-2012, 05:34 PM
who'd you buy it from? I'm wondering if I know them
AutoTrek (a broker) got it from Planet Honda. I would have it in my driveway but they are having their mechanic go over it. I saw nothing at all of concern though - except fresh oil, from a Honda dealer, is unlikely to be diesel CF rated I would think. So I might just change that. They will deliver it at work tomorrow, kinda cool.

Those little tires look pretty strange in those big wheel wells... but I know from talking to folks, nothing kills diesel mileage faster than bigger meats. As we all know really.

Convert
05-10-2012, 07:59 PM
Congrats Bill good lookin truck, I liked your idea about a diesel truck area in the forum,mods can we do that??


First thread should be a picture thread of pickup trucks :beer:

Red_Chili
05-10-2012, 08:48 PM
I suggest it be called, "Dweasels"
:lmao:

SteveH
05-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Nice to see another 7.3 in the club.

www.ford-trucks.com is a great site - find the 7.3 forum. There are typical 7.3 post-purchase tasks, like determining if the glow plug relay is working as it should, and checking the resistance of each glow plug (easily done at the harness under the hood). Fixing any boost leaks at the intercooler boots should be at the top of your list - all that takes is a nutdriver and/or a homemade boost leak detector. I would immediately change the fuel filter. I would run 5w-40 synthetic, starting with your next oil change, which will make winter starting far easier and cure the 'romps', which affect these engines at low temps after startup. Most of what that truck needs is regular maintenance and checking - I suspect that engine is just fine.

I love the raspy sound of the 7.3 starting, and my 20-something co-worker commented 'it sounds like a school bus' - and smells like a Grayhound bus station on a cold morning. Yeah, baby! Enjoy!

ScaldedDog
05-11-2012, 07:38 AM
So tell the tale behind that sigh!

SteveH covered it pretty well, though chips often require turbo modifications to avoid surges, and I ended up replacing an HPOP. The big issue, though, is the tranny. Most stock trucks of that era, and certainly the 7.3's, were detuned, and I think that was to keep factory tranny warranty costs down. I avoided chipping mine for the same reason, but once the tranny went, I wanted the motor to perform closer to its capabilities. I've always loved driving this thing, even when it was stock, and I bet you'll feel the same way.

For now, reliability and 'stock' are working for me and I don't want to tamper with that.

My goals are exactly the same, and I think they can be accomplished at higher than stock power levels. As you mentioned, though, at minimum you have to pay more attention, and have the tools necessary to see what's going on as you drive. That's true in stock form at this altitude, though. Even in stock form, gauges told me I needed a tranny cooler, and that I could easily hit 1400+* EGT's on passes. In fact, the only heat related failure I've had - a cracked injector cup - came before I chipped the truck.

I have never understood modding diesel pickups...

Because every man, before he dies, needs to strap on an 8000lb rocket and go for a ride. :hill: It's a hoot! You can drive one off the lot today, but in the 7.3 era, you had to roll your own.

Those little tires look pretty strange in those big wheel wells... but I know from talking to folks, nothing kills diesel mileage faster than bigger meats. As we all know really.

Are they the stock 265/75? If so, you'll likely find that your speedo reads a tad fast, as Fords tend to do. When I had 285/75 D's on mine, it was dead accurate (I think), but the same brand (BFG/AT) in a 285/75 E caused the speedo to be 3% slow (as compared to GPS). Recalibrating to whatever tire size you have just takes a couple of minutes with the right tool, though. After towing with the D's, I much prefer the E's.

Nice truck, BTW. My personal favorite color.

Mark

Red_Chili
05-11-2012, 08:22 AM
Thanks, Mark. Thanks for the tips and link too. I don't think I will run the Honda oil in that motor for long. It was pretty pristine too, which I almost never saw after a change in my '97 PSD - immediately black was the rule of the day. I bet that motor looks near new inside.

My favorite color too, and won't show dirt too bad. One thing I am grateful for is finding a manual 6 speed. Seems like clutches are way simpler than entire transmissions. Of course, I can't wait to discover what that costs... :rolleyes: I need a Ford flavor of Jesse at ATLR. Jesse rocks!

I need to find my old Ford baseball cap. It just so happens to be covered with red chilis!!! :lmao: Hope I didn't toss it.

Air Randy
05-11-2012, 08:40 AM
Welcome back from the darkside, you now have a manly truck. One thing you can do to make the truck look better without putting on bigger tires: There is a 4" suspension lift block in the rear that jacks the butt up into the air. If you put a 2" lift kit in the front, which are just a couple of spacers, it will level it out much more. You can then even pull the rear lift block if you want to level it more. If you do that though, you may have to install air bags on the rear for when you have your camper on it.

I do this to all my trucks as it gives them a nice look when empty and they ride better with the air suspension when hauling/towing.

Beater
05-11-2012, 08:51 AM
wow - never new you were into "new age" -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowfax_%28band%29

Red_Chili
06-04-2012, 04:05 PM
You bet... Gandalf's horse.

Heard something interesting about exhaust braking ... only 40 psi needed to overcome the exhaust valves which would be bad juju ... real concern? Or not really?
The more I learn the less likely it will remain unchipped BTW ... for mileage at least.

J Kimmel
06-04-2012, 04:08 PM
doubtful otherwise you'd hear all about problems with engine brakes...

also you'll get better mileage with a chip :)

but now you'll need to be careful about other things, like your transmission, getting gauges to watch things like boost and EGT's (which isn't really a bad idea anyhow) and trans temps

RockRunner
06-04-2012, 04:57 PM
Bill, like Jeremy said you need to get some gauges. The most important is the EGT gauge because you do not want to burn her up. My friend has an 01 lariat that he added an exhaust brake to and remote start (also a 6 speed). I would chip it if I were you besides the fact that it will get you better MPG but it will also run better. You don't have to turn it up and go drag everybody but the extra power towing and climbing the mountains never hurts.

Congrats BTW, I was going to suggest a white crew cab dually to you but you found one already.

rover67
06-04-2012, 05:01 PM
... only 40 psi needed to overcome the exhaust valves which would be bad juju ... real concern? Or not really?


Think about it... really?

no, the exhaust valves aren't doing a whole lot. you are braking against the piston coming up.

It's like a plugged air compressor.

ScaldedDog
06-04-2012, 10:52 PM
Not to be a contrarian, but I wouldn't chip it for mileage. I've kept track of every tank of fuel we've put in our Excursion for 9+ years and 66,000 miles. I've done the 203* 'stats, additives, exhaust, AIH delete, performance tranny, intake, chip with "econo" tunes, and I can confidently say that all that stuff made...




Absolutely no difference at all to fuel mileage. The chip made the overhead display tell me I was getting better mileage, but the actual measurements tell the real story.

Now, all that crap was a ton of fun to do (well, I hired the tranny done and it was wicked expensive, so that wasn't much fun), and towing in the mountains is much easier than it used to be, but mileage changes are in the tenths of mpg. Maybe - big maybe - I get close to the same mileage at 75mph that I used to get at 65, but that's at best, and certainly not worth the money. Would I do it again? Absolutely! But not because I expected to save a penny in fuel costs.

I would invest in gauges, though. If you're hammering the truck up the hill with a camper and your 4Runner in tow, your EGT's are way over 1200*, and your tranny is too hot, even without a chip. If you get gauges, I suggest getting one with the EGT sensor under the hood, rather than one of these goofy things like have that sends boost pressure to the in-cab gauge.

What year is your truck, BTW?

Mark

Air Randy
06-05-2012, 08:33 AM
If you do decide to chip it, seriously consider going with Banks Engineering products. There are less expensive units on the market that will claim (and probably do) they make more HP.

The difference is, the Banks stuff has built in safety protection like de-fueling the engine if the EGT's get too high. And it's designed as a system so all of the components are compatable with each other. For example Banks also sells a module to make your tranny shift better when towing with less slippage to reduce heat build up. That module talks to the ECM they sell you for the engine, same story with their exhaust brake, etc.

Red_Chili
06-05-2012, 09:27 AM
FYI, 2002 PSD Supercab Longbed manual, 118K miles now.

You guys talk about tranny temps and shift modules and such... it's a manual. In fact all that tranny talk made me jump on the manual 6 speed frankly.

I was all interested in chipping for economy, then...

I corresponded with a tuner who sells chips and he said to expect absolutely no return on investment in fuel economy. Some power, yes, but it will stress a stock truck if abused. This is despite the fact some guys were raving about 2-3mpg improvement using his chips. Methinks they are unconsciously changing their driving style. I think if the factory could get better mileage by reprogramming, they would... well, we are talking about American manufacturers, but still...

I notice I get a bit worse mileage than the old '97 auto crew cab I used to have. 15-16 instead of 17-18. The display is of course optimistic, at 17.3. Some of the forum folks brag about up to 20, but you know how that goes.

You got me interested in EGT gauges though. Hmmm...

Tom, no duallies for me. Hard enough to park. Tire expense. Crew longbed dually would be obscene. Most are shortbed from what I have seen, but then I lose cargo space.

The other thing I am interested in? Geez, the thing rides like a buckboard on some of the finely engineered concrete highways we have in this state (285 through Aspen Park especially). I mean, hold-on-to-your-coffee-level buckboard and-don't-even-think-about-taking-a-sip. :lmao: Might be time for shocks mebbe??!?

Beater
06-05-2012, 09:32 AM
gauge it, but no chip.. that's my thoughts. it's a pretty solid unit from my experience with it back in the day. would you rather get 600k miles, or 100lbs of torque and blow the injectors quicker... just sayin. trust your gut.

j

ScaldedDog
06-05-2012, 04:21 PM
it's a manual.

Duh. I knew that. An EGT gauge is still worthwhile. :D

As far as the harsh ride goes, take a look at how far you are off the front bump stops. I wouldn't think this would be a problem with the trucks, but the X's were only about 1/2" off from the factory. They bottomed out on road paint, and rode like you are describing. As you know, it may just be that the thing was made to carry stuff, and the rear needs some weight to ride well.

Mark

SteveH
06-05-2012, 04:35 PM
Re: the ride - don't run 80 psi in the tires all the time, if that's the way it sits now. It will wear out the center of the tire and it will ride more poorly. I sometimes leave 80 in the back and 55 in the front - but 80 in the front results in a brutal ride. I just put KYB GasAdjust shocks on my '01 Crew/shortbed ($178 from Rock Auto) and they are just right - not too firm, but firm enough. I didn't want to spend yet another $100 more on Bilsteins, so these were a deal. A load in the back will smooth things out, too. With the highly-sophisticated 2 leaf front springs, don't expect much in the ride department.

Beater
06-05-2012, 07:36 PM
80 is for loaded only iirc. I'd run probably 20% less unloaded.

baileyfj40
06-05-2012, 07:56 PM
Bill;

Another powerstroke fan here, got two of them in the fleet, one 99 6spd an one 03 auto. Stay with the fords, my friend. The new 6.7 is said to be a match with the old 7.3. I think your old problems where just one truck and that dealer. More than welcome to look at both of mine someday, if you wish.

Red_Chili
06-06-2012, 10:07 AM
Cool, Mike... yeah I am committed to this one... :lmao:
20 year truck. I try to not buy anything else.

Red_Chili
06-06-2012, 10:09 AM
Duh. I knew that. An EGT gauge is still worthwhile. :D

As far as the harsh ride goes, take a look at how far you are off the front bump stops. I wouldn't think this would be a problem with the trucks, but the X's were only about 1/2" off from the factory. They bottomed out on road paint, and rode like you are describing. As you know, it may just be that the thing was made to carry stuff, and the rear needs some weight to ride well.

Mark
Yeah, it definitely rides better with the camper. Still slightly off the overloads. Has a lot more sway (nothing unmanageable, just noticeable) and I noticed it tends to rock a bit which made me think shocks are at end of life.

Good advice all, I will look out for deals on shocks. Airbags may be in the future but I'm not really looking for cash drains right now if I can avoid it...

Red_Chili
06-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Hmmm, seems like there are a lot of Rancho haters on FTE... admittedly I have had to replace two complete sets on the Chili, but each time was for free under warranty and amounted to a significant upgrade with the latest design... ???

Four Wheel Parts has a sale on today with a $100 rebate which makes it not unreasonable to pick up 9 way adjustable gas charged shocks. Huh.

So whassup with all that hatin'?

rover67
06-06-2012, 01:57 PM
Hmmm, seems like there are a lot of Rancho haters on FTE... admittedly I have had to replace two complete sets on the Chili, but each time was for free under warranty and amounted to a significant upgrade with the latest design... ???

Four Wheel Parts has a sale on today with a $100 rebate which makes it not unreasonable to pick up 9 way adjustable gas charged shocks. Huh.

So whassup with all that hatin'?

I guess it's like buying reman parts at Autozone... If you don't mind replacing them often then go for it?

I prefer to get stuff that lasts a while so I don't feel like I am doing the same crap twice.

Red_Chili
06-06-2012, 02:16 PM
I dunno, I don't do AutoZone, but only one set of Ranchos could be said to have really failed (the second set got some tiny amounts of air that allowed small undamped movement - which the Chili, bless her heart, exposed immediately. as in, ... :eek:). The first set just weeped a bit. Still free replacement. Show me some shocks that don't eventually weep.

Even after the rebate, Bilsteins are cheaper. So I got those.

Air Randy
06-06-2012, 02:27 PM
New shocks may help the camper sway a little but don't expect a big improvement. If your truck doesn't have the camper special package on it, start checking around with the wrecking yards. You want to get the anti-sway bar and brackets that come with the camper special option. They were fairly common and I think the range of years that will fit the rear of your truck is pretty big.

Red_Chili
06-06-2012, 02:37 PM
I believe it does have the camper sway bar. I know it has the tow package. Regards the rocking horse ride on the concrete section of 285, the guy at Aspen Park Automotive says it is notorious. Long wheel base vehicles of any kind suffer.

subzali
06-06-2012, 02:49 PM
My Tundra will rock sometimes on concrete roads, my buddy noticed it too in his '07 F-150. Dunno.

Squishy!
06-07-2012, 10:16 AM
I dunno, I don't do AutoZone, but only one set of Ranchos could be said to have really failed (the second set got some tiny amounts of air that allowed small undamped movement - which the Chili, bless her heart, exposed immediately. as in, ... :eek:). The first set just weeped a bit. Still free replacement. Show me some shocks that don't eventually weep

x2 I'm still running my first set of Rancho 9000x's. Goin on 5 years now and they're just showing surface rust but still work fine.

Air Randy
06-07-2012, 10:21 AM
I believe it does have the camper sway bar. I know it has the tow package. Regards the rocking horse ride on the concrete section of 285, the guy at Aspen Park Automotive says it is notorious. Long wheel base vehicles of any kind suffer.

Front to back rocking yes, but the side to side is what you really want to control especially when you have to drive with strong cross winds.

AxleIke
06-07-2012, 12:14 PM
I believe it does have the camper sway bar. I know it has the tow package. Regards the rocking horse ride on the concrete section of 285, the guy at Aspen Park Automotive says it is notorious. Long wheel base vehicles of any kind suffer.

Oh yes they do. Even my corrolla rocks slightly on that section. My dads Taco with FWC is really bad. My 4runner gets it some, but nothing like the taco.

Red_Chili
06-19-2012, 12:54 PM
OK, you 7.3 PSD owners... what oil and change interval do you run? I have heard bad things about Rotella T synth for some reason but can't track down exactly why...???

(This thread just turned into a dreaded oil thread... :lmao:)

ttubb
06-19-2012, 02:58 PM
OK, you 7.3 PSD owners... what oil and change interval do you run? I have heard bad things about Rotella T synth for some reason but can't track down exactly why...???

(This thread just turned into a dreaded oil thread... :lmao:)

I used to use Rotella in my Cummins Dodge. At 100,000 I had the valves adjusted and the diesel shop in Az stated there was a lot of sludge in the engine and asked if I was using Rotella. When I told him yes, he recommended using Valvoline Premium Blue, so I switched. He had seen problems with Rotella engines before. I changed oil about every 5000 miles. Just fyi...Terry

J Kimmel
06-19-2012, 03:01 PM
I used to use Rotella in my Cummins Dodge. At 100,000 I had the valves adjusted and the diesel shop in Az stated there was a lot of sludge in the engine and asked if I was using Rotella. When I told him yes, he recommended using Valvoline Premium Blue, so I switched. He had seen problems with Rotella engines before. I changed oil about every 5000 miles. Just fyi...Terry

this is what I run in my duramax, and I ran in my previous 7.3 also. Same intervals, about 5K

SteveH
06-19-2012, 04:22 PM
In the past, I ran <whatever's on sale> 15w-40 diesel oil in my 7.3 and changed it every 3K. I have switched to synthetic Rotella T6 5w-40 and will change it at 6K intervals. Many folks in the FTE forum run the T6 synthetic on a 10K mile interval and have done Blackstone reports to back up the idea. Since 7.3s are very hard on oil (the injectors cause oil breakdown due to sheer) they are simply an engine that needs more frequent changes. I have not read/heard of issues with any Rotella. My truck seems to burn a bit of the 5W-40, but not an excessive amount.

I really like the T6 5w-40 in the winter - easy starts, no romps, much less gray smoke. I have one (or 2) dead glow plugs, so a 5 degree F start for me is quite an adventure in smoke. With 15w-40 a start at that temp (without a block heater) was a gamble. With T6, it fires right up.

ScaldedDog
06-19-2012, 05:36 PM
T6 5w-40 too. Change it annually, which works out to about 5k miles.

Mark

Air Randy
06-20-2012, 08:47 AM
I always use the Wal-Mart brand 15w-40 dino oil in all of my diesels. In my 7.3's I changed it at 5K even though the Blackstone report said I could easily go to 7500 and still be safe. All of those trucks went 200K+ without an issue.

In my Dodge 6.7 I routinely ran the same oil to 10K based on the Blackstone reports. It was still well within the safety margins.

According to the Blackstone reports, the Wal-Mart oil has the same lubricity and anti wear additives that the higher priced name brands have, so I never saw the value of paying more for Rotella, Valvoline, etc. This is the same oil my father-in-law ran in his Caterpillar tractors and Kenworth dump trucks. I helped him maintain those rigs and rebuild engines and I never saw any sign of premature wear due to using the less expensive oil.

For me the same logic applies for synthetic oil. Unless you are going to run it for 10K+ miles using oil reports to guide you, I think you are just pouring money down the drain.

There Bill, I kicked it off so we can now have a proper oil arguement :D

Red_Chili
06-20-2012, 11:23 AM
LOL
So... the Rotella that reportedly sludges... are we talking synth or dino?

Hmmm, I just can't get past the idea of running WallyWorld oil in my $12K motor... I've always been a Valvoline guy, and run Valvoline SynPower in the Chili. But SynPower is not diesel rated (and not cheap). By Valvoline blue premium you mean dino oil? There is always Motorcraft oil at WallyWorld and it is actually a) not too expensive and b) comes in 5 qt. jugs, making the math easier for 15 qt. oil changes without any left over.

J Kimmel
06-20-2012, 11:27 AM
you're way overthinking it. go to autozone, by diesel rated valvoline blue, or whatever brand you want, and run it. No ones ever blown one up because of dino vs synthetic. Put the wrong oil in maybe but diesel formulated oil, you'll be fine.

rover67
06-20-2012, 12:45 PM
FWIW, the NAPA brand oil is the same as Valvoline. look on the back of the bottle. Save yourself some $$ when changing chili oil next time.

Air Randy
06-20-2012, 01:50 PM
LOL
So... the Rotella that reportedly sludges... are we talking synth or dino?

Hmmm, I just can't get past the idea of running WallyWorld oil in my $12K motor... I've always been a Valvoline guy, and run Valvoline SynPower in the Chili. But SynPower is not diesel rated (and not cheap). By Valvoline blue premium you mean dino oil? There is always Motorcraft oil at WallyWorld and it is actually a) not too expensive and b) comes in 5 qt. jugs, making the math easier for 15 qt. oil changes without any left over.

Remember Walmart doesn't refine their own oil. They just buy a bazillion gallons a year from one of the 3 or 4 refiners that make all US motor oil, and slap it in a bottle with their brand on it. Read the bottles, they will tell you the oil meets all of the same specifications as the more expensive oils. Try one oil change with it, send the used sample in to Blackstone whenever you decide to change it and keep the results. Then do it all over again using your most expensive dino oil for comparison. Compare the results of the 2 oil reports, you will see no difference. Thats the best way to prove it to yourself, scientific evidence. Everything else is just marketing hype.

Red_Chili
06-20-2012, 03:31 PM
FWIW, the NAPA brand oil is the same as Valvoline. look on the back of the bottle. Save yourself some $$ when changing chili oil next time.
Same as SynPower? As in, refined by Valvoline?

rover67
06-20-2012, 03:45 PM
Same as SynPower? As in, refined by Valvoline?

Both are refined by Ashland. Like Randy said above, most oils come from a handful of refineries and they are rebadged to go to wherever retail outlet they need to go.

ScaldedDog
06-20-2012, 05:25 PM
What Jeremy and Randy said, even though I happen to run Rotella, and put next to no stock in the whole Rotella/sludge thing. Search both terms on FTE. You won't find much.

I prefer synthetic purely because of the cold start issue. I had to start mine with 15w-40after sitting outside in Crested Butte for a few days, and it was not a fun experience. I got it started, but it took awhile, and sounded like it was going to come apart for the first few minutes.

Also, count on having some oil around. If you beat on one of these for 5000 miles between changes, you'll have to add some.

Mark

Air Randy
06-20-2012, 06:26 PM
Both are refined by Ashland. Like Randy said above, most oils come from a handful of refineries and they are rebadged to go to wherever retail outlet they need to go.

Yep, the only difference between the various brands is they each have their own "secret" formula they give to the refiner to blend. The truth is they all use the same additives to combat foaming, give better lubricity, etc, etc. They just use them in different quantities to differentiate their product.

rover67
06-20-2012, 08:39 PM
Oh and it is no mystery either... it says it on the back of the bottle...

Red_Chili
07-09-2012, 10:20 AM
Well, got the setup finished for flat towing the Chili, behind the F250 and Lance truck camper... we went to Lake City for the Fourth. And the verdict is...





Gee, works great. I coulda used an exhaust brake over Monarch, but really, not bad at all. The Chili pushes the rear of the truck just a wee bit (or is that wheee! bit) so I have to watch the oversteer, but really it towed wonderfully. The lockouts on the rear axle of the Chili make it a dream to hook up, as does the fact that starting the Chili, turning it off, and leaving the ignition key in keeps the steering unlocked... and though the tow bar was a bit angled down it didn't have any effect on the F250 on hard braking. The only real issue was tight turns on loose road surfaces, where the Chili's steering didn't follow the arc very well at all. Fine on pavement.

14 mpg didn't hurt at all. The pyrometer kept my foot out of it going upgrade (kept it at 1200* or below), but even so I had little trouble keeping up on the speed limit (actually went slower downgrade because I only have the truck's brakes). Even passed a stock 86-87 4Runner that was screaming its 22RE going upgrade. Kinda funny to haul all that and get about the mileage that the Chili would have, packed with camping gear, all by itself.

I like it.

SteveH
07-09-2012, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the update/report. Now, don't get 6.0 fever or start looking at 2012 rigs, and you'll be ok. ;-)

Uncle Ben
07-09-2012, 10:59 AM
Time for a trailer....you'll forget Chili is even behind you plus it stops perfect and you can back up!

Air Randy
07-09-2012, 02:53 PM
Well, got the setup finished for flat towing the Chili, behind the F250 and Lance truck camper... we went to Lake City for the Fourth. And the verdict is...





Gee, works great. I coulda used an exhaust brake over Monarch, but really, not bad at all. The Chili pushes the rear of the truck just a wee bit (or is that wheee! bit) so I have to watch the oversteer, but really it towed wonderfully. The lockouts on the rear axle of the Chili make it a dream to hook up, as does the fact that starting the Chili, turning it off, and leaving the ignition key in keeps the steering unlocked... and though the tow bar was a bit angled down it didn't have any effect on the F250 on hard braking. The only real issue was tight turns on loose road surfaces, where the Chili's steering didn't follow the arc very well at all. Fine on pavement.

14 mpg didn't hurt at all. The pyrometer kept my foot out of it going upgrade (kept it at 1200* or below), but even so I had little trouble keeping up on the speed limit (actually went slower downgrade because I only have the truck's brakes). Even passed a stock 86-87 4Runner that was screaming its 22RE going upgrade. Kinda funny to haul all that and get about the mileage that the Chili would have, packed with camping gear, all by itself.

I like it.

Get the Banks exhaust brake. Very inexepensive for those trucks and super easy to install, it makes a HUGE difference going down the passes especially when towing. Once you have one you will wonder how you ever lived without it.

Red_Chili
07-09-2012, 03:26 PM
Time for a trailer....you'll forget Chili is even behind you plus it stops perfect and you can back up!
Not a chance. The money aside, no place to park it that would be acceptable to the :Princess:!

Besides... I actually backed up successfully on two occasions. Just gotta keep your head about you.

ScaldedDog
07-09-2012, 05:09 PM
Wow! If you got 14mpg hand calculated, that's great!! I can only count on 11.5 with my 15K setup, doing the speed limit on I-70.

X2 on the exhaust brake. I just have a decel tune, but I use it driving in the hills empty, much less towing, even with trailer brakes.

Mark

baileyfj40
07-09-2012, 05:57 PM
Love them 7.3!

Red_Chili
07-10-2012, 09:50 AM
Wow! If you got 14mpg hand calculated, that's great!!
Yup, corrected odo for actual vs. indicated mileage, and kept my foot out of the injectors for the most part. Actually just a tech under 14, like 13.93 or so. Close 'nuff.

The truck computer still thinks it got 17.2mpg... :lmao: No idea how it calculates that or how often it gets adjusted or for what time period it represents...

SteveH
07-10-2012, 03:08 PM
There's a reason that the overhead display is known on FTE as the 'Lie-o-meter'. Your mileage is right in line with mine - towing a 2000# popup, I get 14-16. Big headwinds, hills, and high speeds push it down to the 13-14 end of the scale.