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View Full Version : HELP: First Full Front Axle Job...GREASE question.


LARGEONE
05-21-2012, 08:56 AM
So, I'm finally tearing apart the front axle. Two reasons for doing this: 1) blown axle seal on left side...2) and more important...Robbie is going to install new 4.88 gears and ARB lockers!!!!

So, question on grease...

can someone recommend what brand and where to get the two types of grease (and quantities) required for the front axle re-build? The FSM says Moly (I assume this is moly-fortified NLGI 2) for the Birfield/Knuckle and then NLGI 2 Lithium for the hub bearings. I was in NAPA this AM dropping off my rotors to be turned (going 100 series pads) and there was a whole slew of grease choices, but pretty much just Valvoline and NAPA branded. Is there somewhere else I should check, or are these grease choices OK? Where would I find synthetic (Mobil 1?)? Also, the moly-fortified only came in the small quantity containers...don't I need quite a bit for the knuckles?

Thank you in advance!

Paul

wesintl
05-21-2012, 09:11 AM
So, question on grease...




OH... oh no.. :o :beer:

LARGEONE
05-21-2012, 09:20 AM
Is there a specific old thread I should dig up? Key words?

subzali
05-21-2012, 09:35 AM
don't even use those words. I think that troll does a web search for people mentioning the name and then contrinues his trolling. :mad:


Paul, I would say you're on the right track, and the Valvoline would be fine. My dad found that the synthetic Valvoline would separate in the knuckle and leak out, so he's gone back to good ol' dino grease on his front end. Search the 80 series FAQ on MUD?

wesintl
05-21-2012, 09:38 AM
no.. there is usually a troll that visits us when this issue comes up.

my .o2 is moly forified for the birfs. seperate them clean and repack. some in the cavity but it doesn't need to be packed tight. my .02 2 tubs should be sufficient.

I don't use moly on my bearings. I use regular valvoline red wheel bearing grease. anything that is high temp should be fine. one tub should be sufficient. Look up how to repack a bearing with your palm if you don't know how.

HTH

60wag
05-21-2012, 09:40 AM
There are a couple of key words that you shouldn't use because they attract trolls. Specifically words that end in *oop.

I used a red synthetic grease when I did mine, I thought it came from NAPA but maybe it was Broadway Auto on Arapahoe. I don't think it really matters that much as long as it's moly loaded grease in the birf. As with any bearing application, getting it clean and free from contamination is the most important step in the job.

LARGEONE
05-21-2012, 10:20 AM
Thank you. I guess I'll go with the normal high-temp NLGI2 wheel bearing grease for the hubs and pick up a few of the moly-fortified for the knuckles.

Does anyone on the N Side have a SST for the rear axle? Or a home-made one? What about for installing the inner axle seals?

MountainGoat
05-21-2012, 11:32 AM
My preferred moly grease is Valvoline Palladium. I think that's what Robbie likes as well. Good stuff.

Jacket
05-21-2012, 11:34 AM
Bout time.... ;)

I'm the same as everyone else. All grease sourced from Napa - I used the Valvoline Palladium with Moly for the birf/knuckle, and then regular red wheel bearing grease for the hub bearings. They didn't have tubs of the Palladium at my location, so I just bought like 6 or 8 tubes, and then returned what I didn't use.

I don't have an SST for any of it, but for the front inner seals I think I just used a socket that was the same size as the seal, and then put a long extension on it to tap it on. Others have used a block of wood with a small diameter piece carved into the end that could fit into the knuckle and then knock in the seal into place.

nakman
05-21-2012, 12:28 PM
Paul I've got the install tool for the inner seal you can borrow, also a 54mm but looks like you're well past that one! The SST for the back is a nice to have but not required, you can use screwdrivers to twist it, or just tap on it- only must have tool IMO is the impact screwdriver for getting those phillips screws loose the first time. Let me know.

corsair23
05-21-2012, 01:37 PM
What ^ they ^ say

Valvoline Palladium (Napa) for the birfs, Mobil 1 red for the bearings (O'Reilly's)

As I recall I had to ask for the Palladium as Napa had it in back. I don't recall exact amounts but maybe 10 tubes for the birfs and a couple of the small tubs for the bearings.

For races and seals I really like my cheap HF kit --> LINK (http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-bearing-race-and-seal-driver-set-95853.html) - you can do the job without it but with it makes it just that much easier.

I borrowed the SST for the rear axle which was slick. I bought an impact driver from HF but ended up not needing it as the screws weren't tight at all :rolleyes:

LARGEONE
05-21-2012, 10:24 PM
I actually have the impact driver for the rear screws...I think I'll give the large similar size socket with an extension a whirl for the front seal.

Another question...my bearings seem to be in decent condition, but I do have all new bearings for both the knuckle and hub. Should I pound out the races and go all new? If I change the bearings and races on the knuckle, is it gonna mess with my preload requiring change in shims?

LARGEONE
05-21-2012, 10:32 PM
Paul I've got the install tool for the inner seal you can borrow, also a 54mm but looks like you're well past that one! The SST for the back is a nice to have but not required, you can use screwdrivers to twist it, or just tap on it- only must have tool IMO is the impact screwdriver for getting those phillips screws loose the first time. Let me know.

Thanks to all for the advice...this is the biggest job I've attempted AT...that's after Tillman! It's a lot when you add in the diff work.

Tim, I may take you up on the installer and socket after you get back as my 54mm is the el cheapo type that you turn with a screwdriver! It might help to have a real one to snug it up before coming off it for preload?

P

Rzeppa
05-22-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm the same as everyone else. All grease sourced from Napa - I used the Valvoline Palladium with Moly for the birf/knuckle, and then regular red wheel bearing grease for the hub bearings. They didn't have tubs of the Palladium at my location, so I just bought like 6 or 8 tubes, and then returned what I didn't use.

X3 on the above specific combo.

:wrench: :cheers:

Corbet
05-22-2012, 12:24 PM
I just used the Valvoline moly on my bearings too.

You might consider getting new rotors rather than having them turned. I think it was Christo who said given the amount of heat the 80's generate on the fronts your better off just replacing them. Its a lot of work to tear back into it to do the brakes again.

corsair23
05-22-2012, 04:42 PM
Another question...my bearings seem to be in decent condition, but I do have all new bearings for both the knuckle and hub. Should I pound out the races and go all new? If I change the bearings and races on the knuckle, is it gonna mess with my preload requiring change in shims?

Do you know how many miles are on the bearings/races in there? If it were me and I had new parts in hand, I'd put in the new stuff and put the old stuff in my spares bin...Actually this is exactly what I did :D

The new stuff won't mess up the preload, just keep the shims in the correct locations. Make sure you fully seat the races and fully seat the bearings when you put it all back together...

Pay close attention to the knuckle studs - if you didn't get the new type of studs, I suggest you do so and red locktite them in while you have stuff apart. The new style of studs are nice and I haven't had any issues with look knuckle studs :thumb:

On the bearing preload...You can follow the FSM procedure or follow some of the suggestions on MUD. Buy a couple extra of the lock washers because you'll want to check things after driving for a bit...New stuff tends to loosen up. I can't remember now what some of the "experts" on MUD recommend but it is something like 20 ft-lbs on the hub preload and call it good with apparently no ill-affects and no worries about loosening up down the road.

Corbet
05-22-2012, 06:46 PM
I also used the Longfield lifetime wiper seals by the way. Install was easy and I like how they have been holding up over the last year. My neighbor did the same last year too.

Inukshuk
05-22-2012, 10:15 PM
My next birf repack I will do new inner axleshafts and will go back to regular Toyota inner axle seals due to the significant grooves worn by the "heavy duty" seals.

LARGEONE
06-11-2012, 09:44 PM
Update...the beast is back on the road!

ARBs are in with the new 4:88 gears. Lockers are not hooked up yet as that will be a project in itself! Still trying to figure out what to do about air.

Anyway, this project was enough...turns out my birfs were starting to show some cracking so I had them rebuilt (actually, I took them to Robbie who sent them somewhere). Definitely wasn't something I was planning on spending money on, but I was glad I caught it before blowing them up in the trail somewhere.

So, I ended up changing out all the bearings and races...new extended brake lines, rebuilt calipers front and rear, new rotors and 100 series pads up front, and the new gearing. I can't believe how much of the drive train slop/clunk is now gone. I guess more of it was in the diffs than I had presumed.

I'm running the 4:88s with 33s right now, so my speedo is way off. Any guesses as to how far off my speed is at 55 mph? I really think when my speedo says 55 that I'm actually going about 45! Either way, I haven't gone over 50 on my speedo since I'm still taking it easy on the gears.

How many miles should I go before I wheel this thing?!!!!

Rezarf
06-11-2012, 11:36 PM
What??? All my bearings are lubed by the 90wt oil leaking through... :hill:

LARGEONE
06-12-2012, 07:38 AM
You know...I had one birf that was complete soup from 90w mixing and it was the one birf that looked way better than the other! With nearly 200k on the truck and not knowing the maintenance history, there's no way to draw any conclusions, but...

I'm glad I finally did this project...my wife is not!

corsair23
06-12-2012, 11:53 AM
I'm running the 4:88s with 33s right now, so my speedo is way off. Any guesses as to how far off my speed is at 55 mph? I really think when my speedo says 55 that I'm actually going about 45! Either way, I haven't gone over 50 on my speedo since I'm still taking it easy on the gears.

How many miles should I go before I wheel this thing?!!!!

Enjoy the "power" with the 4.88s and 33s :)

My suggestion, get a GPS and use that to determine how far off your speedo is. I installed a Mark's speedo correction box and I'm trying to remember the adjustment % I had to input...It was substantial though. I want to say 15% but that might be high. Even with the 35's there is a pretty significant correction factor.

As for the gears, I think I asked the same question a few years ago. I don't remember the answers though. I think the common thought is to take it easy for the first 500 miles or so. Adjust speed often (i.e. no 500 mile highway runs) and don't make any real long drives. Change the diff fluid after 500 or so miles. I did two changes in the end because there was quite a bit of "goop" in the front from the leaking seals that was getting cleaned out. Don't use the expensive gear oil in the interim if you plan to change the oil out again :)

All that said, as I recall Nakman did his gear swap and promptly headed to Moab, pulling a camper, without any issues so :rolleyes:

LARGEONE
06-12-2012, 12:40 PM
Thanks Jeff. So, is the Marks correction box able to adjust right now to my 33s and then later to the 35s? Do you have a link to this contraption?!

nakman
06-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Yeah you want to get at least a tank of gas done with just stop and go driving, no extended I-70 runs, 2 tanks would be better. I did cheat that a little, but no ill effects. And IIRC the difference is 14%, so when your speedo says 50 you're only going 43.

Hey after a week or so give your front tires a good shake and make sure those bearings are still tight. With new races, they can settle in a tiny bit further and essentially work themselves loose. Somewhere between loose and hot is the sweet spot.. for me if I could feel a little clunk then usually 1/8-1/4 turn on the inner nut was all I needed to get it right again.

Also put a big 17 on the top and bottom knuckle studs, for similar reasons, maybe after you wheel the first time? After that those should stay tight forever.

Good job knocking this out, Paul! :bowdown:

corsair23
06-12-2012, 02:05 PM
Paul,

The box has a switch allowing you to set two different ratios (labeled fun "tyres" and standard "tyres" :hill:) and switch back and forth with just the switch. Of course you can adjust the settings for each at any time down the road as well. I've got mine setup for the adjustment needed to run 33's (for e-testing) and 35s. The newer units don't use the dip switches shown in the install directions on Slee's site. Instead, there is a digital display that you adjust up or down.

http://www.marks4wd.com/products/tyre_match_box/speedo-correction.html

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/products/products_speedo.htm

Install is super easy (refer to page 3 on this LINK (http://www.sleeoffroad.com/installation/MFK1180.pdf)). There is actually a rubber plug on the PS transmission tunnel that you can poke the wire through so you don't even have to cut a hole...Route the connector to the tcase, unplug the VSS, plug in the Marks adapater, plug the VSS back in, tie up the cables and voila. I spent more time trying to figure out where to put the box than actually running the cable etc. In the end I just sort of stuffed it up behind the dash and carpeting. The cable just barely reaches and it is up and out of the way.

There are cheaper options like new gears or the box that you splice into the speedometer signal behind the glove box (can't remember the name now). I went with Marks box because NO splicing, easy access to adjust if needed (important when trying to set the right ratios initially), and easy install.

My only complaint about the box is that for some reason there is a lag after starting the truck each time before the speedometer starts working. I've chatted with Christo and the Marks people via email about this and they aren't sure why there is a lag. No big deal, just freaks you out at first thinking something is broken after install. The lag is about 1/10th of a mile before the speedometer starts working. Maybe they've fixed the problem now, I don't know. The negative would be if you do a lot of start/stop cycles your mpg calculation would suffer (albeit only a little) and your odometer will be slightlly lower than actual.

Mine has been installed for almost 3 years without any problems :)