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spectre6000
11-26-2012, 07:33 PM
Just bought an FJ40. Picking it up tomorrow. Needs some light wrenching, then it's my new daily and my wife's when she feels like it since I work out of the house and don't drive too often. Rock stock, missing only the OEM hubcaps as far as I can tell (there are a few parts in boxes that will need to be sorted, but it looks like it's all there), and the rust is very light compared to all of the others I looked at. Pretty stoked.

Corbet
11-26-2012, 09:33 PM
Congrats. We'll need pics of you know ;)

cbmontgo
11-26-2012, 10:36 PM
Very cool. Pics needed indeed!

RicardoJM
11-27-2012, 08:27 AM
Sweet - post up those pics. :D

corsair23
11-27-2012, 10:33 AM
x4 on the pictures :D

spectre6000
11-27-2012, 11:54 PM
I didn't get it home before it got too dark to take any photos. I need to rebuild the carb tomorrow, and I'll get some then.

Where is the best place locally to buy parts? I talked to Sabrina at Rocky Mountain Cruisers this morning, and they said it was pretty much just internet...

Phrog
11-28-2012, 08:30 AM
Toyota dealers can get some new parts. Other than that, it's mail order.
I've used Cruiser Corps, SOR, and Cool Cruisers for mail order new parts.
For used, you can try Salida Classic Cruisers.

-Phrog

subzali
11-28-2012, 09:04 AM
for carb rebuild kits and such, just go to NAPA. Stevinson and Boulder Toyota are good supporters of Rising Sun members for OEM parts, and they're right down the road, in a manner of speaking...

rover67
11-28-2012, 10:18 AM
Sweet!

Lets see some pictures!!!

Boulder Toyota is cool, they have sold me TONS of FJ40 parts. I usually go there first. Non OEM can be sourced from places like NAPA for certain things like Matt says. Then for others you've got the MAF, SOR, CCOT, bunch as others have mentioned. I try to avoid SOR due to their high prices on shipping and parts. MAF and CCOT have their own demons as well, but when it comes down to it they usually have what you need and are cruiser people. I haven't tried Crusier Corps but probably will.

Used parts are the variety of FJ40 Junkyards around. Salida Classic Cruisers, cruiser parts.net All the used places you'll have to be careful about what you think you are getting. remember these things are old and most used parts will be as old and rusty as what you are trying to replace.

what year is it?

Jacket
11-28-2012, 11:50 AM
I found the Napa carb kit to be pretty darn complete - more so than the Keyster.

rover67
11-28-2012, 12:00 PM
I found the Napa carb kit to be pretty darn complete - more so than the Keyster.

heck, i may actually have one at home. i'll check tonight.

RicardoJM
11-28-2012, 12:36 PM
I've always had good results with Keyster carb kits. If your carb is an early DD38 - you may find this thread (http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11570&highlight=dd38) helpful.

spectre6000
11-28-2012, 12:51 PM
I finally have possession of the truck during daylight without any pressing deadlines! Photo time!

Rust is definitely an issue, but this was probably the best one I saw.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy8.jpg
Can't complain about an upside down bezel if it's not on the truck! Bungee cords are because the latches are in a box in the back.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-4.jpg
I need to figure out what the deal is with the black plugs...
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy15.jpg
Is that a factory radio? I think it is! Does it work? Not a damn clue....
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy13.jpg
Most of the smaller bits are scattered around inside the truck... The box is a new SOR headliner.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy9.jpg
I upholstery is VERY nice, and TEQ logos are on everything.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy11.jpg
The floor is under there, I promise, and it's totally solid. This is the bad side.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy10.jpg
All of the running gear has been completely rebuilt. The PO is a mechanic by trade (and definitely not a body man), and seems to have done an excellent job. All parts are OEM or SOR's aftermarket when OEM wasn't available.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy2.jpg
Cold weather intake will come in handy up here!
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy4.jpg
A good portion of the engine compartment is also new. The engine itself hasn't been touched, and after having sat for the last 5-7 years, I might need to replace a few seals... The chrome horn is from a Harley.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy.jpg
A full set of 5 original wheels. Sadly (or happily depending on how you look at it), the hubcaps seem to be the only pieces missing (so far).
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy3.jpg

SteveH
11-28-2012, 01:25 PM
That looks great - congrats!

Jacket
11-28-2012, 02:56 PM
Looks good. Is it a '75?

spectre6000
11-28-2012, 03:15 PM
'74. I picked up a Warner carb kit from O'Reilly this morning on recommendation from Sabrina at Rocky Mountain Cruisers. Anyone have any experience with either of those? I was entertaining partial teardown before I went down there just to be efficient with time (had to take the wife to work at 12:30), but then I saw the multiple parts to the base and the complicated linkage and decided to wait until I had the kit in hand so I didn't destroy a gasket I couldn't easily replace. I also ordered a Haynes manual (also on recommendation from the same) as it seems the availability of factory manuals for this year is somewhat lacking... Any input on that?

subzali
11-28-2012, 03:31 PM
black plugs on the dash are probably factory. Toyota didn't always fill the holes when they went to the next model year...

Factory radio is AM only, and I think sports the TEQ logo.

'74 is a good year, transition F engine (F.5) with the better oiling system, highest number of FJ40s were imported that year. Also has the 4spd.

IME, Haynes manual is a good cheap manual that covers a surprising amount of info on the vehicle and is reasonably accurate. The Factory Service manuals are even better, you just need to ask around to check availability. It's been a while since I ordered mine, but they didn't seem to have any problems getting them to me.

No idea on the Warner carb kit, usually the Hygrade or Keyster kits come recommended on the forums. Let us know how you like yours.

Looks like you found a nice rig. What are your plans for it? Are you going to drive it and work on the rust (doesn't look like much) as you go, looking for a stockish build eventually?

spectre6000
11-28-2012, 03:50 PM
Yeah, it'll be a rolling project.

I'm not sure how I feel about this carb kit. I've rebuilt my fair share of carburetors, but I can't tell if I have everything I'm going to need... I've seen where the Keyster kits come with jets (seems an odd thing for a rebuild kit to have to me personally), and I have to admit I don't see any recognizable sort of accelerator pump diaphragm... I also can't tell what it has in terms of base gaskets, so I'm not sure where to remove it from... If I open it I can't take it back, but without opening it I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to finish the job... Off to an ignominious start, I'm afraid... Anyone itching to show a Cruiser newbie the ropes? Vanilla Porter or Milk Stout in it for ya!

RicardoJM
11-28-2012, 03:57 PM
74 should be a DD38 with linkage. Check the date code on the carb to confirm is is from the correct era. I would be very surprised if the kit did not have the appropriate gaskets, the "tricky one" to make would be the one between the air horn and the body. I've got one that could be used as a template. On the early carbs, there really aren't many issues that you can run into. Review that thread I linked earlier for all the details. If you need a hand, let me know.

spectre6000
11-28-2012, 05:32 PM
Got the carb off. Date code is 11/8/73, so that makes me feel a bit more comfortable that I have the correct kit. I've found that carb kits tend to fall into one of two camps: so much stuff that someone unfamiliar with that particular model can easily be confused by all the leftover parts and their similarities, and missing key parts that leave the rebuilder stuck halfway through assembly digging through a trashcan hoping something wasn't destroyed/thrown away...

The truck is really complete and really original (as I've stated) and I'm waiting to find those PO "gifts" that always accompany older vehicles... Seats might be out of a 60-series, so there's (potentially) that unless someone knows otherwise. The carb date code is new info that adds further to the originality and completeness meter. VIN tag states an 11/73 production, and carb corroborates that fact. Are there any other dated things I might hunt for to get a little more precision?

For grins, and I know I'll probably hear some fairly low numbers, but what might be a fair price for a truck like this?

MDH33
11-28-2012, 06:19 PM
For grins, and I know I'll probably hear some fairly low numbers, but what might be a fair price for a truck like this?

That might have been a better question to ask before you bought it. :hill: What did you pay? ;)


Nice looking 40 project. :thumb:

Careful taking the air horn off the carb. There's usually some teeny tiny springs or weights in there with the ball bearings that tend to fall out and immediately disappear. The keyster carb kits always seem to come with jets, but not usually the ones you'll want. Good luck! I have some spares if you need anything too.

spectre6000
11-28-2012, 06:25 PM
By my calculus, I think I got a pretty swingin' deal. The PO was a total luddite, and thus I think he took a shot in the dark on pricing. I looked at every 40 for sale within a reasonable day's drive of Denver (save the ski resort millionaire variety or the obviously crap), and of all of them this was the cleanest, most complete, and most original at the second lowest price. The lowest priced one had a fender and the entire DS rear made out of what appeared to be paper mache, and despite seller claims to the contrary was NOT drivable. If I say what I actually paid for it, it will taint the "what it's probably worth" responses.

wesintl
11-28-2012, 06:28 PM
nice :thumb:

spectre6000
11-28-2012, 06:32 PM
Is there any gasket sealant (i.e. Indian Head) recommended when rebuilding these carbs?

Corbet
11-28-2012, 06:43 PM
By my calculus, I think I got a pretty swingin' deal. The PO was a total luddite, and thus I think he took a shot in the dark on pricing. I looked at every 40 for sale within a reasonable day's drive of Denver (save the ski resort millionaire variety or the obviously crap), and of all of them this was the cleanest, most complete, and most original at the second lowest price. The lowest priced one had a fender and the entire DS rear made out of what appeared to be paper mache, and despite seller claims to the contrary was NOT drivable. If I say what I actually paid for it, it will taint the "what it's probably worth" responses.

What's important is you feel you got a good deal therefore you'll enjoy the truck. And it looks to be a very nice starting point for what ever you decide to do with it. My 40 was not that nice when I bought it in the 90's

MDH33
11-28-2012, 07:04 PM
Is there any gasket sealant (i.e. Indian Head) recommended when rebuilding these carbs?

I've never used anything.

RicardoJM
11-28-2012, 07:07 PM
Is there any gasket sealant (i.e. Indian Head) recommended when rebuilding these carbs?

I've not ever used any. Check the mating surfaces with a straight edge to insure they are flat. I've heard of them getting bent but have not personally encountered that. Jim C. has used a flat file to even them out.

There is a phenolic spacer that sits between the intake manifold and the carb. This spacer has a build in gasket - do not try to remove it.

Fishy
11-28-2012, 10:48 PM
For grins, and I know I'll probably hear some fairly low numbers, but what might be a fair price for a truck like this?

It's worth whatever you were willing to pay for it. Looks like a fun project. By the time it's all done it'll probably be worth less to someone else than it is to you. I say enjoy it!

spectre6000
11-28-2012, 11:35 PM
It's worth whatever you were willing to pay for it.

That's my general attitude. I have something on the order of $10K in my '58 Beetle, and I'm just getting started. To me it's worth every penny, but I know if I ever decided to sell it I'd take a bath. I think I practically stole this truck, and I want to see how truly well I did. Like I said, the guy was a total Luddite and I think he was thinking in terms of a nearly 40 year old truck rather than a cult classic...

subzali
11-29-2012, 09:47 AM
Well, for comparison, I bought my '77 FJ40 in 2005 for $3500. On the plus side compared with yours, it has a 2F, 4spd, and front discs. On the minus side, it's not quite as original as yours, was missing a lot of small items, has cut/trimmed sheet metal and replacement sheet metal that's not 100% OE replacement, and needed some general maintenance/cleanup.

Other dated items include the head and I think the intake manifold. The engine block I think only has a casting number and an engine serial number, but I think the transmission has a date code, if you ever dig into it that far.

FJBRADY
11-29-2012, 09:58 AM
It looks a lot like my 40 :drumsticks:

spectre6000
11-29-2012, 10:15 AM
Other dated items include the head and I think the intake manifold. The engine block I think only has a casting number and an engine serial number, but I think the transmission has a date code, if you ever dig into it that far.

Where are the date codes, and what is the format? Is there a VIN/serial number database somewhere that documents production dates? I'm told there is a book that details some of the more trivial year to year changes; anyone know what that book is called?

subzali
11-29-2012, 12:32 PM
Same format as your carb, AFAIK. I think the one on the head is stamped on the top driver's side, near the front of the head. Just look around a bit and you should see it.

SOR has an engine block number database (sorta) here:
http://www.sor.com/sor/fengine.tam?pagenumber%2Eptx=1&page%2Ectx=fengine%2Etam

There are cruiser faqs floating the net that talk about different model year changes, like this one:
http://www.cruiserfaq.com/15-01.php

spectre6000
11-29-2012, 01:44 PM
I've seen a number of those sorts of charts, but that seems to be the most extensive! Thanks!

I got the carb little bits and the air horn in the carb cleaner (the bowl and base will have to wait until tomorrow). I tore up the two screws that hold the sight window in, but they don't look terribly special so I have a trip to McGuckins in my immediate future. That carb was absolutely disgusting! I have honestly never seen one that bad... I've never even seen one HALF that bad... Old gas sucks. New fuel filter already installed as well.

MDH33
11-29-2012, 04:25 PM
I've seen a number of those sorts of charts, but that seems to be the most extensive! Thanks!

I got the carb little bits and the air horn in the carb cleaner (the bowl and base will have to wait until tomorrow). I tore up the two screws that hold the sight window in, but they don't look terribly special so I have a trip to McGuckins in my immediate future. That carb was absolutely disgusting! I have honestly never seen one that bad... I've never even seen one HALF that bad... Old gas sucks. New fuel filter already installed as well.

Might not hurt to pull the fuel tank and get it boiled out too. Was this rig running or had it been sitting?

spectre6000
11-29-2012, 07:33 PM
It was sitting... I have a pack of fuel filter elements on standby just in case...

As of today, the dash is reassembled save a light bulb and five screws. Defroster vents hooked back up (I noticed the tubing had been disconnected somehow). Side mirrors are back on. I got a number of pieces identified, sorted out, located, and found a few pieces missing: one side of the rear bumper and the windshield hold downs/brackets. The top of the tail gate is tweaked and makes opening and closing the tailgate difficult; I adjusted the majority of the difficulty out, but I think I'm going to have to turn my attention to the door itself... The hardware (nuts and bolts) seems to be all over the place, missing, and not in any way labelled... Luckily there's not a whole lot to these trucks, so there's not a lot of hardware to sort or locate. Two screws are sheared in the grille, so I'll have to find my extractor set before the bezel can go back on. With the carb needing to be cleaned in phases, I'm hoping to get everything on the body assembled and functional in the interim. Before Monday (snow in the forecast) would be excellent. Tomorrow is a hardware run, removing and blowing out the carb bits presently in the cleaner, getting the next round going, and hopefully the majority of the remaining assembly...

subzali
11-30-2012, 09:55 AM
Make sure to get JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) hardware where possible, to match what's on the rest of the truck. Generally speaking, the thread pitches are finer and the head sizes are smaller than DIN or ISO metric hardware.

spectre6000
11-30-2012, 11:14 AM
Really? I was going to McGuckins today to pick up a ton of metric hardware... Where does one get JIS hardware?

Uncle Ben
11-30-2012, 11:22 AM
Fastenal has quite a few and can get most anything you need. Best source for on the shelf is AAA metric (http://aaametric.com/) in Denver.

Jacket
11-30-2012, 12:13 PM
McGuckins won't have any JIS, although the standard metric stuff will work in a pinch. If you are stocking up - drive an extra few miles and hit AAA like Kevin mentioned. It sucks when you grab the 12mm socket wrench to remove a part and then realize that one of the bolts has a 13mm head.

spectre6000
11-30-2012, 12:23 PM
Due to my VW collection, I am flush with metric tooling. I have duplicates of essentially everything one might need in a metric car. After much wrenching yesterday, I discovered I must have loaned/lost all of my 12mm wrenches... Can't find a single one. I have duplicates of duplicates of everything 13mm...

Sounds like I have a choice to make here... Maintain originality all the way down to the hardware, or opt for ease of maintenance (same tooling as my other vehicles) and convenience... I'll probably be swapping all non-load bearing hardware for stainless, and most else for hardened anyway... Additionally, I'm not a huge fan of the soft hardware grade I've found in a number of OE screws (both on my former-4Runner or in the few places I've encountered it on my 40) to boot... Are there any reasons aside from originality (assume tooling doesn't enter the calculation) to stick with JIS? The only reason I can think of is the use of some JIS-specific tool in some specialized piece of hardware that can't be otherwise manipulated, but that seems counter to the engineering philosophies employed in the design of the vehicle...

SteveH
11-30-2012, 12:49 PM
You can buy packages of JIS hardware at O'Reillys. Not a huge assortment, but a good start.

The JIS fasteners (in some locations on an FJ40) provide critical wrench clearance you won't get with non-JIS head bolts.

wesintl
11-30-2012, 12:58 PM
whatever works for you but I loathe 13mm.

I only carry 8-10-12-14 etc much better than having to carry the full assortment to to maintain a truck with standard metric.

spectre6000
11-30-2012, 12:59 PM
What specifically? My 40 wrenching started day before yesterday. I noticed the nuts on the carb were a tight fit... I have a metric hardware collection for my VWs where I just bought bulk quantities of the most common nuts and bolts in either stainless or hardened (I like new hardware on my rigs). So far the majority of what I'm dealing with has been larger gauge stuff and smaller gauge stuff.

Uncle Ben
11-30-2012, 03:37 PM
whatever works for you but I loathe 13mm.

I only carry 8-10-12-14 etc much better than having to carry the full assortment to to maintain a truck with standard metric.

You mean 1/2" right.....works fine on the Chevy but has no place on a Toyota! :blah:

subzali
11-30-2012, 03:58 PM
Toyota made it easy for you - 10, 12, 14, 17, 19, 24mm. Why make it more difficult on yourself? Go buy a couple 12mm wrenches and stick with JIS hardware. You're not going to change everything out all the way down to the rocker arm studs/nuts, piston wristpin bolts, etc., so if you start going down the path of 13mm h*ll your rig will end in misery.

Yes the JIS hardware is a little harder to find, but if you think ahead and place orders with AAA for larger quantities of what you might need, then you should be covered.

I've never run across someone who makes a big deal about the softness of OE hardware, so I guess your pet peeve is something new to consider, but I still have to believe that sticking with JIS has got to be easier, and possibly trump the desire for harder fasteners.

Your rig, your call. Just know that the cruiser gods will look down on the use of non-JIS hardware on not be happy...

rover67
11-30-2012, 04:33 PM
I had the same issue switching from Porsche to Toyota.

Just get the right tools. I like the Japanese way better honestly, the splits make more sense to me. you'll end up with a weird mix of stuff if you start switching, then you'll have to carry all the tools.

wesintl
11-30-2012, 07:12 PM
You mean 1/2" right.....works fine on the Chevy but has no place on a Toyota! :blah:

yeah.. 1/2 or non metric jis. just use a crescent wrench, channel locks and a BFH. :hill:


I loathe my vw too. regular metric so you don't know what you'll need. in addition to torx and allen heads. :o

spectre6000
11-30-2012, 07:50 PM
Old VWs are the same way with the tooling. 10, 11, 13, 17 and all are easily picked by sight. I'm talking older stuff here. We sold off a LOT before moving up here. I tried to keep my '62 bus but it kept getting stuck in the driveway so it had to go too in favor of something with 4 wheel drive. I still have my '58 Beetle, and a '57 Karmann Ghia will be joining the stable soon. Both are still in Dallas...

I'm contemplating pickling the F/3-speed/transfer case for long term, and plugging in a Cummins/5-speed drivetrain for DD duty. That won't happen until probably summer after next... I need to finish the body-off on my Beetle before I can break the 40 open.

Meanwhile, the dash is fully together (one screw refused to install without cross threading, and I didn't feel like removing the rest of them in the dark to see why), roll bar installed (two or three captive nuts feel like the threads were poorly chased and enlarged in the process), lights installed and I THINK hooked up correctly (three solid green wires on the DSF marker/turn signal instead of what I think should be two green/yellow and one solid green as on the other side), license plate bracket installed, carb phase one (little bits and horn) is out of the cleaner and dry, carb phase two (bowl and base) is soaking. Assembly of the body, etc. should be finished tomorrow. Carb MAY be assembled tomorrow evening. Sunday may be running driving.

Tomorrow I'll have to rotate the phase two carb cleaning (too big to fully submerge in the cleaner), install the emissions covers behind the PSF seat, install the jump seats, install the tire carrier and latch, install the hood latches, install the one side of the rear bumper I have, and straighten out the upper tail gate/adjust the latches, install the mechanism cover and handle, and the little brackets for jacks and such... Carb assembly will be the last thing I do because I'm doing it at the coffee table and am thus not constrained by daylight hours.

Sunday, I'll install the carb, get it tuned as best I can with what I have, and make a list of missing/unacceptable parts. Then maybe tool around a bit to see how she's handling (not much though... no plates).

spectre6000
12-02-2012, 09:43 AM
After turning wrench on this thing for a few days, I noticed that a lot of the hardware has numbers on it (4 and 7 being common). A lot of this hardware is in coffee cans and I didn't think much of it until I was fiddling up under the dash and noticed the hardware there had the same numbers. Is this part of the JIS system? Is that what was referred to when someone said something about being able to know what tool you needed at a glance?

Jacket
12-02-2012, 09:58 AM
The bolt head numbers tie to a standard torque value based on the size of the bolt. So if a particular fastener location does not have a documented torque spec, you can refer to the manual to get the standard torque range - for example a M6 bolt that has a "4" on the cap will have an torque range of X - Y. Generally speaking, as the number on the fastener gets larger it has a higher torque value.

spectre6000
12-02-2012, 02:03 PM
What are the odds anyone has a spare glass float sight they'd be willing to part with for cash, beer, wrench exchange, what have you? Also maybe lend some sage cruiser experience to a cruiser noob in terms of an initial tune up? Great way to spend a beautiful Sunday afternoon up in the mountains!

nuclearlemon
12-02-2012, 03:55 PM
I've never run across someone who makes a big deal about the softness of OE hardware, .

i'll join the 'hate the fact that toyota hardware is made of butter' group. they should never have been allowed to use phillips head screws, but sometimes even the bolt heads suck

although, the bolt heads don't suck as much as finding that one "1/2 inch" (as uncle ben says) bolt when you've got all your 12mm wrenches out.;) (the phillips head screws, however, are far worse than that 13mm)

spectre6000
12-02-2012, 04:01 PM
Are there any local places I might be able to pick up a sight glass? What's the story on the plastic ones? Different vintage or just aftermarket replacement?

nuclearlemon
12-02-2012, 04:02 PM
Where are the date codes, and what is the format? Is there a VIN/serial number database somewhere that documents production dates? I'm told there is a book that details some of the more trivial year to year changes; anyone know what that book is called?

best book for trivial changes is all in japanese;)

RicardoJM
12-03-2012, 09:02 AM
Are there any local places I might be able to pick up a sight glass? What's the story on the plastic ones? Different vintage or just aftermarket replacement?

I pretty sure I don't have one in my spare parts cache. That said, you should be able to use one from most any Toyota carb - apperantly in a pinch you can bet buy with 15 cents. This post (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/593565-plexiglass-sight-glass-will-work.html) will be helpfull. :D

MDH33
12-03-2012, 09:31 AM
I have one of those yucky plastic ones that's hard to see through if you're in a pinch, but that nickel trick sounds interesting too. :hill:

spectre6000
12-03-2012, 12:18 PM
I'm trying to get a hold of Rocky Mountain Cruisers to see if they have one on hand. What are some experiences/opinions of RMC? It sounds like they're a service shop versus a parts store...

spectre6000
12-03-2012, 12:35 PM
Jim's! Core for $25! A Good glass sight AND the start to my spare parts collection! Huzzah!

subzali
12-03-2012, 01:40 PM
I'm trying to get a hold of Rocky Mountain Cruisers to see if they have one on hand. What are some experiences/opinions of RMC? It sounds like they're a service shop versus a parts store...

That would generally be correct...they do sometimes sell excess parts though.

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 09:41 AM
Assuming I'm up and running this afternoon, what are the details on tomorrow's meeting?

FJBRADY
12-04-2012, 09:57 AM
Assuming I'm up and running this afternoon, what are the details on tomorrow's meeting?

7:30-9pm Stevenson Toyota.

Most arrive between 7-7:15 to bat the chat in the parkng lot before the meeting.

Raffle will be a good one......:santa::drink:

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 01:04 PM
Got the carb back together last night and got everything plumbed back in today. It fired up allright. I hear a hissing sound that I can't seem to place. It sounds like it might be the evap system box on the inner fender near the carb, but it's hard to track a quiet sound like that with the engine running right there. Can anyone tell me if a hissing sound is in any way expected (I've never dealt with emissions equipment), or do I need to track down a vacuum leak? It's also a bit on the stumbly side (further indication of a potential vacuum leak), but I didn't give it time to warm up or mess with the carb adjustments at all... Any thoughts?

subzali
12-04-2012, 01:08 PM
Sounds like a vacuum leak. Better get it fixed. 6mm hose is your friend. Check your brake booster hose as well. Is your EGR hooked up? Post up some pics of your carb/vacuum hose layout.

rover67
12-04-2012, 01:16 PM
you can take a can of brake cleaner/carb cleaner and spray it around to find the leak. when the engine sucks it up the idle will change.

Propane works too (from an unlit torch tip)

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 01:30 PM
I'm headed down to town to pick up a steering damper and some hardware here in just a few minutes. Looks like and carb cleaner and vacuum hose are on the list as well... I was really hoping that was one of those cruiser eccentricities like the straight cut gear whine... The crappy thing is, I can hear it continue to hiss after I shut it off, but there's no way to get out and around fast enough to track it down...

Vacuum line that goes out of frame top right goes to the vacuum diaphragm on the carb (which tested fine by hand while I was rebuilding the carb). The one going to the left of that goes to the carb base. The other two go to the air pump and the distributor advance.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/1.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/2.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/3.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/4.jpg

subzali
12-04-2012, 02:00 PM
Yep - nothing obvious from the pictures. And disregard my previous EGR comment - I keep thinking yours is a '75 (dang you Jacket) ;)

cbmontgo
12-04-2012, 02:56 PM
I tracked down a vacuum "whistle" and the base of the carb on my FJ40 by putting a 1/2" stick of CPVC pipe (which can bend nicely) to my ear and listened for the leak at the other end. You can put this pipe in very small spaces and track down exactly where it is coming from.

RicardoJM
12-04-2012, 03:03 PM
As others have indicated, the hissing sound is very likely a vacuum leak. Looking at the photos, you still have the Vacuum Switching Valve (VSV) installed. I don't have any insight on how it should be connected up. If you decide to bypass it; you will need a connection from the carb base to the choke pull off diaphram and then the connection from ported vaccum to the dizzy - everything else (if it exists) on the carb can be capped off.

subzali
12-04-2012, 03:12 PM
having the EVAP system hooked up is good too.

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 04:18 PM
I THINK I have it narrowed down to either the brake booster, or the hose from the intake manifold to the brake booster. It builds vacuum fine at the pedal (insofar as I think it should... Never had this variety of brakes), and I can't hear well enough to trace it with the carb cleaner trick... If I had a second pair of hands, I could shut it off and play with the carb cleaner while it's the only thing audible. Are brake boosters prone to any known vacuum related faults?

subzali
12-04-2012, 04:24 PM
sometimes (somewhat often) the diaphragm can go bad. minitruck and FJ60 boosters are common and well-working replacements.

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 04:29 PM
Are they straight bolt in replacements?

Uncle Ben
12-04-2012, 04:34 PM
Are they straight bolt in replacements?

Yes! They can be different physical sizes so as long as the brake lines can move they should be a direct swap.

RicardoJM
12-04-2012, 04:37 PM
Are they straight bolt in replacements?

Pretty much so however some are more straight forward than others. I have a 3rd generation 4 runner booster; the larger diameter covers one of the bolt holes for my clutch master. Some mini-truck boosters have a spacer that you want to bring over. IIRC, Subzali is running an FJ60 booster which was a straight forward swap.

With any replacement, you will want to take the extra step of checking the pushrod depth to insure it is correct. If it is not correct it will result in the brake hydraulics constantly building pressure and lock the brakes solid after a few stops.

Generally, these brake boosters are very reliable. To test it, use a vacuum pump to build about 15 and see that it holds for a half hour. If the booster passes that test, your issue is likely a faulty check valve or crack in the hose going to the manifold.

subzali
12-04-2012, 04:44 PM
FJ60 booster is easy, just have to mount it upside-down and cut pushrod to proper length!

rover67
12-04-2012, 05:00 PM
the runner booster has more boost than the 60 booster.

I swapped my 60's booster and noticed a big difference. they bolted up the same too.

do the carb cleaner trick with it actually running and spray it all over till you find the leak. places to check are around vacuum lines/fittings, around the carb, and around the head to manifold interface.

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 05:53 PM
Part of my problem is that it doesn't seem to affect idle at all, and all I have to go on is a hiss. When I shut it down it's very obvious, but I can't get around the a-pillar with the carb cleaner fast enough to catch it... I'm going to give it another try as soon as I get home from picking my wife up at work (we're down to one car until I get this pig on the road). A second set of hands and hopefully a little daylight will go a long way... Wish me luck and hope it's a hose or some other minor thing instead of the booster itself.

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 07:09 PM
Finally got a helper! Fired it up, and it more or less immediately ran out of gas... Clogged fuel filter. I bought extra elements when I got the filter, so it won't take much, but that's still a real kick in the teeth. It's dark now, and too cold for functional fingers (let alone fingers drenched in gasoline), so I'll have deal with it tomorrow... Tomorrow is the last warmish day of the year from the looks of it, so hopefully I can get it good!

spectre6000
12-04-2012, 07:32 PM
Does anyone know any radiator shops in the area that will do gas tanks?

spectre6000
12-05-2012, 04:57 PM
Since no one seems to have any recommendations, I'll offer one. It's only a recommendation insofar as there actually IS someone in the area still doing this sort of service. When I get the tank back (in two weeks :-( ) I'll let you know how it was.

Spike Radiator & Air Conditioning
2331 West Hampden Avenue
Englewood, CO 80110
(303) 762-7522

The service includes dipping the tank however many times it takes to get it clean of junk (there was quite a bit in my case), media blasting inside and out, any metal work that needs to be done (pinholes and the like), proper prep (I grilled him on this as a lot of guys will just dip it and slosh some sealer around inside and it'll flake off and really mess things up within a year), coating the inside of the tank with a plastic sort of coating, then painting the exterior of the tank. Essentially, a full restoration. Hopefully it's of the quality I expect out of my cars, and for the price ($300) it had better be. I went back into the shop and checked that out (I don't generally trust shops to work on my cars... Too many idiot gorillas slinging wrenches without a clue). It looks well used, as clean as such a shop can be expected to be, and properly equipped for the job. The guy doing the work seemed fairly high caliber and genuine, so I have high hopes. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Meanwhile, since I'm running the 40 out of a gas can for the time being, I'll not be joining you this evening for the meeting. January will likely be a different story.

spectre6000
12-05-2012, 07:30 PM
I tried to track down my vacuum leak by running the truck off the gas can. I ran the tank in/out lines down through the wheel well to the gas can. It went fine (I now know it's definitely related to the brake system) until the bowl ran dry. Deja vu... I checked the sight glass, and the bowl was empty. I checked the fuel filter, and it was ALSO empty. I watched the fuel filter while my lovely assistant turned the key, and it would kind of burble but wouldn't get enough gas in it to really do anything.

Is the fuel tank somehow supposed to be pressurized? I know modern cars are, but I've never dealt with anything that was and don't honestly know how those systems function...

I used 5/16th fuel line for this charade (that's what was on it, and I am shotgunning the fuel lines for good measure), but that seems a bit large on paper. I didn't run it with a fuel clamp either, but for this temporary test I didn't think it would be necessary... Is the fuel line maybe too big/not clamped and the pump is sucking air?

It's probably crap in the carb from the tank being as nasty as it was (the filter was plugged up pretty badly), but I want to make sure I'm not missing something that I would know if I wasn't new to cruisers before I go and tear the thing down again...

I'm really getting frustrated with trying to find this ridiculous vacuum leak...

farnhamstj
12-05-2012, 07:46 PM
Pssst...




We like pictures.

spectre6000
12-05-2012, 08:04 PM
[stage whisper] What would you like photos of? [/stage whisper]

subzali
12-06-2012, 08:21 AM
Pump could be sucking air, but no, the fuel tank is not normally supposed to be pressurized. Your mechanical fuel pump *should* have enough lift to draw fuel from a gas can on the ground, but the fuel tank in the truck is located higher than the fuel pump.

Crack the fitting at the carb loose and bleed the system and try again.

farnhamstj
12-06-2012, 09:13 AM
[stage whisper] What would you like photos of? [/stage whisper]

Rusty fj40 parts, followed by photos of non-rusty fj40 parts:thumb:

spectre6000
12-06-2012, 10:21 AM
You might be disappointed then... I'm not doing a whole lot in the way of de-rusting this go round. I'm trying to get this thing up and running as a winter DD, which means no attention to anything aesthetic for the time being. With the exception of the fuel tank and getting some new hardware to make up for the nuts and bolts I wasn't able to find in the coffee cans full of nuts and bolts, she's staying ugly for a year or two.

My restoration strategy is to get everything mechanically and electrically flawless, THEN worry about pretty. The end results are much better. Additionally, my present situation does not allow for too much heavy lifting, as it were. My wife and I sold off a significant portion of our possessions and moved into a tiny cabin up here while I get my business started. We weren't thrilled with our jobs or surroundings where we were, and figured out that the only things holding us there were entirely external to us and not worth worrying about. We asked ourselves where we would live if we could live anywhere in the world, narrowed it down to a few places, and ended up here. One of the sacrifices was my shop (all of my bigger tools are down in Dallas in storage along with my current body-off restoration project) and full access (through the car club I started and ran until coming up here) to two (now three) full additional automotive shops (one mechanical only, two full restoration outfits). Now I keep my smaller tools in a small office room in the house, and the medium sized stuff (and my welding kit) live in the crawl space. The rest (along with a car and several engines on pallet racks) are 1,000 miles away... My current work space consists of a sort of flat spot a floor and a half below the house with no electricity and no ground hard enough to safely operate a jack. It's less than ideal, but temporary and, as I sit here looking out over my little chunk of serene wilderness from my coffee table with the freedom and ability to spend time on these sorts of things (my engineers are working on a major project that's taking longer than expected, and I'm stuck until they finish), it's worth the price of admission.

I should be able to get my current project car up here and finished this spring/summer, and will probably give the 40 the full treatment the following summer. I'm going to pay to have the remainder of the body work done on my bug because it's been too long and I'm ready to have it done, but I will be doing the 40 completely in house (it's too simple not to).

spectre6000
12-06-2012, 02:26 PM
I'm anxious to get this thing on the road, so I put on some relatively warm clothes and braved the snow (graupel actually)...

Redneck carb rebuild complete. No delta. I moved the gas can up above the fuel pump, still no love. At this point it's pretty much the fuel pump. Now I'm going to spend some time searching for general information on the subject and see about rebuild kits (are there fuel pump rebuild kits for these?).

subzali
12-06-2012, 03:48 PM
I don't think so. I think you have to buy a new or rebuilt one. Try to stay with Kyosan Denki or Nikki fuel pumps if you can (open the box and check it out).

I thought you said your filter was plugged, so you were going to get the fuel tank cleaned? Are you seeing fuel to the fuel pump but no fuel on the discharge? Weird that it just stopped working. The diaphragm can go out and then it pumps fuel into the crankcase, so check your oil and see if it smells gassy. If it does you need to change the oil. Sometimes the lever for the fuel pump gets worn down pretty good, when you pull the fuel pump off you can check it out.

spectre6000
12-06-2012, 04:09 PM
The filter WAS plugged, and the tank is at the radiator shop now. I'm running fuel lines from a gas can straight to the pump (positioned under the wheel well) and back right now so I can continue to get things fixed and roadworthy while the tank is out to lunch. Last night it was almost sorta getting a little burble of fuel in the filter, but that was it. Nothing at all today. The pump had to have gone bad sometime between the filter clogging and this morning.

I just came in from some fiddling... I figured if the pump is clogged, the only real gasket that would be problematic would be the one between the pump and the body (the rubber stuff is usually pretty resilient). Since it's all accessible from the top, I figured I would give it a try. I took the top off the pump and everything looked fine. I took the middle section off, and there was a tiny bit of crap in it, but nothing damning. The diaphragm appeared fine (no obvious tears), but there's really no way to check the valves save that they looked pretty stiff... Also the top plate gasket was dry and deformed. I'm guessing the pump is just seriously old, and sitting for years with gas in it didn't do it any justice. I sprayed the whole lot clean with carb cleaner and reassembled. For grins (and to test to see if the pump is doing anything at all), I turned it over with the fuel line leaving the pump disconnected (if it's in any way functional, it will spit a little puddle pretty quickly). Nothing. I tried to spray out the fuel lines to make sure they're clear but ran out of carb cleaner... I just ordered a new pump from O'Reilly (Airtex brand, which is a rebranded OEM according to Mud), so I'll pick that up along with some more carb cleaner tomorrow... Maybe THEN I'll be able to find this vacuum leak...

subzali
12-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Is your fuel filter before or after the pump? It should be before. If it's not getting through the filter there won't be anything for the pump to pump! (I know you know this, just stating the obvious)

spectre6000
12-06-2012, 05:48 PM
It's before, but stuff can still get through on occasion. The trash clogging the filter was mostly sediment, and it's small enough to potentially get past filter mesh.

farnhamstj
12-06-2012, 07:11 PM
In my mind I'm imagining something like this.

spectre6000
12-06-2012, 07:16 PM
What is causing you to imagine that?

farnhamstj
12-06-2012, 07:39 PM
threads are better with pictures. That one is funny.

When the fuel pump went out on my 78 it poured fuel everywhere.

Be sure all the lines are free of rust before installing the new fuel pump.

spectre6000
12-06-2012, 10:32 PM
Here's a picture of my '57 Karmann Ghia (coming soon). If you do a google image search for "57 karmann ghia" it's the second result.
http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/57-karmann-ghia-douglas-pittman.jpg

Here's my '58 Beetle (more or less as it sits now).
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/IMG_3049.jpg

My '62 panel bus (recently departed) driving through Times Square on our honeymoon (wife jumped out at one light, took some photos, and jumped in at the next light).
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/140.jpg

And yours truly painting a chassis (I think) and demonstrating appropriate lung safety for some reason.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/PhotoFeb2533230PM.jpg

There isn't really much photo worthy so far in my opinion, but if there's something someone would like to see I'll gladly take a few. It's just a stock engine compartment and a bunch of soiled latex gloves with a few tools scattered around.

subzali
12-07-2012, 09:47 AM
:thumb: like the pictures of the VWs. We've got some VW fans here in the club. A couple (ex?) Ghia owners too...

spectre6000
12-07-2012, 10:13 AM
If any VW/Porsche volk need some assistance with anything air cooled, feel free to hit me up. I may not be too hip to cruisers yet, but I can do anything on a VW top to bottom in my sleep and have been ITCHING to play with them (the 40 is to no small degree a VW-wrenching surrogate). I have most of the special tools (I bought out an old shop with some friends), and potentially have access to those I don't have (still looking for a good king/link pin reamer set if anyone knows where to find them). I wouldn't be my first choice for a headliner, and I hate the sanding side of body work, but I've done nearly everything that can be done on nearly every vintage of nearly every model (I'm a little thin with fuel injection, later 412s, 911s, and Hebmüllers, though I have had intimate contact with all of them). The club I started back in Dallas (Das Klub) had work days once a month to a few a week depending on weather and what needed to be done. It's without a doubt the best team building, best learning experience, and most fun humanly possible.

That said, if anyone needs some wrenching help (on anything really), please hit me up; especially the really heavy duty stuff. If anyone wants to rebuild axles, engines, trannies, what have you, I may not be able to contribute much in the way of direct experience but I can hand tools and read manuals with the best of them! Likewise, if anyone has experience tuning the carbs on these, I'm going to be seat-of-my-pantsing it without a wide band or a performance baseline and I would really appreciate the help. If no one volunteers, I'll likely be taking it to RMC and paying out the nose (unless anyone has any alternative recommendations).

rover67
12-07-2012, 10:47 AM
you can borrow my wide band if you want, just let me know.

rover67
12-07-2012, 10:51 AM
The pics are cool BTW. looks like you take good ones, also dig the vw stuff. We have been toying with getting a bug of some flavor for a while now.

subzali
12-07-2012, 10:59 AM
You can do a search on MUD for instructions on how to tune these carbs for best idle. I should have that thread bookmarked but I don't yet. You really just need a vacuum gauge and a tachometer. To get the exact right jet settings you'll need the wide band.

spectre6000
12-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Thanks, but the only one of those photos I took is the one of me with the mask...

I have an automotive multimeter with a tach function. No vacuum gauge though (that was a borrowed piece of kit). And now that I think about it, without a selection of jets to swap around, a wide band doesn't actually do me a whole lot of good does it... Additionally, depending on the specific wide band setup it may not even be all that useful or accurate without a sensor bung in the header... Really didn't think that through...

Looking at SOR's site, it really doesn't look like there's much in the way of jets available for tuning even if I wanted to! Is that really the case, or is that just more fuel for the diesel swap fire?

rover67
12-07-2012, 11:21 AM
you can get some numbers by putting the sensor in the tail pipe. that is assuming you don't have any exhaust leaks. welding on a bung is best. I think i have a few spares.

I have a vacuum gauge too.

spectre6000
12-07-2012, 11:32 AM
Marco, wanna help a cruiser newb with a carb set up? :hill: That is, after I get the fuel pump situation taken care of, get the timing set and valves adjusted, get that vacuum leak tracked down and rectified, and get whatever else sorted out that crops up requiring sorting...

Speaking of, who is at what elevation running what jets in what carb with what engine? I have a 1.5F rock stock (though the jet set doesn't seem to be stock, nor does it make a whole lot of sense), and I've read through the various jetting threads on this and other forums, but there generally isn't enough information to be all that useful...

Also, where are people getting jets? I'm half tempted to run down to Jim's and buy all of his 2 barrel carb cores just for the jets... $25/each and could probably be talked down a bit if I bought a bunch of them...

spectre6000
12-07-2012, 12:02 PM
When I broke the carb down, it had 55/80 bleeds (I think I keep seeing these referred to as "slows"), 20/180 primary/secondary mains, and 55/114 in the plugs on reserve. I didn't take note of the accelerator pump/power jet for some reason...

That jetting setup strikes me on the surface as pretty messed up between the mains and the jets in the plugs. Having a larger main on reserve than in action when at altitude makes sense, but then the secondary has larger jets in action than on reserve... Never mind that neither of the double digit jets (55/20) make sense in context with what I'm seeing others run... I think they're power jets, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Any ideas what was going on there? Am I the crazy one?

Presently I have the same 55/80 primary/secondary bleeds. 114/180 primary/secondary mains. I still didn't take note of what I had for the power/accelerator pump jet. Then I have 55 and 20 in the plugs...

subzali
12-07-2012, 12:49 PM
I don't think you're the crazy one. Sounds like you put it back together a little more reasonably.

My '78 carb on my '77 2F has:
1st Main Jet: 136 (1.36mm)
2nd Main Jet: 171 (1.71mm)
1st Slow Jet: 75 (0.75mm)
2nd Slow Jet: 80 (0.80mm)
Power Valve: 80 (0.80mm)

From Moab to Argentine Pass it's never skipped a beat. Problem is it's hard to compare because every year just about was different. See here:
http://www.sor.com/sor/cat042d.tam

We had a discussion about jet sizes a couple years ago here:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=15074

I'll try to find what Randy posted about what he used in the Blue Mule (1974 F.5 engine). Personally I'm not sure it's worth getting down to the gnat's a** on this because we're talking about tractor motors here, and because we change elevation so much. A typical trail run might have you changing 5,000 feet of elevation or more in a day. I might play with mine a bit but honestly it runs fine the way it is and the plugs are fine, even with a different model year carb on it.

Okay, check out this post too from Randy and Ricardo:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?p=175380&highlight=jet#post175380

subzali
12-07-2012, 12:57 PM
What's the build date code on your carb, too, for reference? It's a series of numbers, a letter, and numbers stamped on the top of the air horn, near the front.

spectre6000
12-07-2012, 01:15 PM
At least I'm not the crazy one. I'm guessing the plug spares are power jets... Weird.

It's November 8th, 1973.

A little slightly off topic update: new fuel pump in. Wrong inlet drilled, runs it right into the oil filter mount. Off to go see what I can find in the way of an angled fitting... It's always something. Ugh...

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-5.jpg
Look! I made a photo!

RicardoJM
12-07-2012, 01:26 PM
... A little slightly off topic update: new fuel pump in. Wrong inlet drilled, runs it right into the oil filter mount. Off to go see what I can find in the way of an angled fitting... It's always something. Ugh...

Look! I made a photo!

Move the one over from your old pump. :thumb:

RicardoJM
12-07-2012, 01:31 PM
I'm trying to keep up with the thread and it sounds like you are on the right path. A very useful item for you would be the F Engine Manual. I have one in PDF version that is just under 50k, shoot me your email address.

Chapter 2 of the FSM is dedicated to Engine Tune up and the following snippets of specifications are something I have not seen you have yet.

Distributor - point gap to .016" ~ .020"
Dwell - did not find it noted
Timing - BB to pointer is 7 DBTC, you engine will likely run best with more advance.
Plugs gapped to .028" ~ 0.031"
Valves .014" on Exhaust .008" on Intake
Idle RPM 650-700, High Idle did not find but IIRC it is 1800
Compression - 150 at sea level - need to adjust for altitude

The carb tuning process is pretty straight forward. This link (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/26635-carb-works-great.html) describes in pretty well. The goal is obtaining the highest vaccum from the engine at idle by adjusting idle mixture, RPM and timing. I've got all the equipment and can also give you a hand when you sort out the fuel issues.

Regarding jets, I have not found a source to by new jets. Pulling carb jets from Aisan carbs will not always work. In the DD38 carb, the primary jet sizes are very different size from what you would pull out of other Aisan carbs - been there done that. The FSM has a chart indicating that these came from the factory with the following jets.

112 Primary in the carb and 108 in the plug
200 Secondary in the carb
090 Power jet in the carb and 080 in the plug

The FSM is mum about slow jet sizes and indicates the need to reference another document (I've never found it) for USA details and it also indicates that at atlitudes above 6,600 feet the 108 should be in the primary and the 080 should be in the power jet.

All that said, I am running the following jets for my F.5 engine:

114 - Primary
180 - Secondary
60 - Power valve
50 - in both slow jets

I've tried 112, 116, 118 in the Primary and my "sweet" jet is 114. The jets work just fine everywhere I drive. Perhaps at high altitude I may be running just a tad rich, but I'm not driving at 10K+ feet often enough to be concerned.

If I'm tracking correctly, you installed the following jets in your rebuild:
114 - Primary
180 - Secondary
UNK - Power Valve
55 - Slow Jet
80 - Slow Jet

The 20 jet does sound confusing, but I think under the scrutiny of a magnafying glass it will be a 200. The 55 is consistent with the size of a power valve jet.

The most difficult jets to find are Primary and Secondary; and on those I think you are in good shape. I'm pretty sure I will have a smaller slow jet to replace the 80. In my research, the Power Valve jet is not as critical for tuning. IIRC at some point I read JimC indicate you cannot get too big on the Power Valve. I did rebuild a DD38 that was missing the Power Valve and while the carb did need to be rebuilt (varnish build up from lack of use) the owner indicated that it ran great prior to getting the varnish build up from lack of use.

spectre6000
12-07-2012, 08:24 PM
Move the one over from your old pump. :thumb:

That is the one from the old pump. The new pump inlet is clocked wrong. I think it's for a 1F without the oil filter. After running around all day trying to figure out how to make the thing work, I just took it back. I'll order one online and make sure it's correct.


RicardoJM, PM en route.

spectre6000
12-07-2012, 09:13 PM
Manuals rec'd. Thanks, Ricardo!

RicardoJM
12-07-2012, 09:17 PM
Manuals rec'd. Thanks, Ricardo!

:thumb:

cbmontgo
12-07-2012, 09:28 PM
Manuals rec'd. Thanks, Ricardo!

As you probably know now, Ricardo is a great source of knowledge/info when it comes to these carbs (and damn near everything else too).

spectre6000
12-08-2012, 10:40 AM
As you probably know now, Ricardo is a great source of knowledge/info when it comes to these carbs (and damn near everything else too).

I'm here for knowledge and camaraderie. Das Klub is one of the few things I miss about Dallas, and I'm hoping to find a similar group here. Sabrina @ RMC suggested checking this group out after I explained DK to her, and so far it's more or less living up to its reputation. I certainly feel welcomed and encouraged. I can't wait to get everything up and running to my level of expectation and get out to a meeting.

spectre6000
12-08-2012, 11:04 AM
By the way, after yesterday's exercise I've decided to follow my own advice and "pay the money, cry once". I'm going to just order the pricey fuel pump from the OEM manufacturer and a parts house that actually has a clue about the vehicle in question. Unfortunately after all of yesterday's goose chasing, I didn't make it home in time to call SOR before they closed... Monday morning I'll call and finally place my big order. I'm pretty much down for good until it comes in...

For reference on this truck, my overall intention is to get it mechanically and electrically good and reliable in the near term (it's going to stay rust and ugly) for daily driver duty. Once my business starts making some money, it will be replaced as DD by my then finished Beetle and a new (something of her choice) for my wife. Once general vehicular needs are met and I have a shop of some sort to work in, it will go under the knife and realize it's full potential.

nuclearlemon
12-08-2012, 12:11 PM
By the way, after yesterday's exercise I've decided to follow my own advice and "pay the money, cry once". I'm going to just order the pricey fuel pump from the OEM manufacturer and a parts house that actually has a clue about the vehicle in question. Unfortunately after all of yesterday's goose chasing, I didn't make it home in time to call SOR before they closed... Monday morning I'll call and finally place my big order. I'm pretty much down for good until it comes in....

have you checked to see if it's available from toyota before calling sor? sor is just an aftermarket company...they buy from toyota, then mark it up before selling to you.

spectre6000
12-08-2012, 12:19 PM
SOR has two options: one is the OEM Toyota fuel pump, the other is the same manufacturer as OEM in a different box for $10 less. I checked out all of the other parts houses I have bookmarked, and of those that actually had it SOR was the cheapest (after you account for the 15% club discount and core charge). I've never known a dealership to even pretend to be a good place to buy parts without being the only possible source for said part. I could easily be wrong, so if anyone knows a better/cheaper source for such things I would really appreciate the heads up.

Uncle Ben
12-08-2012, 12:43 PM
SOR has two options: one is the OEM Toyota fuel pump, the other is the same manufacturer as OEM in a different box for $10 less. I checked out all of the other parts houses I have bookmarked, and of those that actually had it SOR was the cheapest (after you account for the 15% club discount and core charge). I've never known a dealership to even pretend to be a good place to buy parts without being the only possible source for said part. I could easily be wrong, so if anyone knows a better/cheaper source for such things I would really appreciate the heads up.

OEM is always cheaper in the long run!

spectre6000
12-08-2012, 12:47 PM
Yup. Yesterday's experience is evidence of that...

"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available and then buy another one hoping for a better result and then spend the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher

I could have saved a day and half a tank of gas had I just bought the right one in the first place...

cbmontgo
12-08-2012, 05:50 PM
I have always bought Kyosan fuel pumps. They are an OEM supplier and are plug and play. Ebay usually has the best deal going on these.

spectre6000
12-08-2012, 05:55 PM
EBay is currently offering 11 fj40 fuel pumps. The new offbrand ones are just slightly less pricey than OEM manufacturer pumps from SOR (with sellers of unknown repute). Used is cheaper, but a total crap shoot.

cbmontgo
12-08-2012, 05:57 PM
EBay is currently offering 11 fj40 fuel pumps. The new offbrand ones are just slightly less pricey than OEM manufacturer pumps from SOR (with sellers of unknown repute). Used is cheaper, but a total crap shoot.

Don't buy used. I'd absolutely buy from an OEM manufacturer. Go Kyosan.

cbmontgo
12-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Also make sure you buy one that is right for your year. Other years have different inlets/outlets and will make more work for you during the install.

spectre6000
12-08-2012, 06:03 PM
That was the problem with the O'Reilly pump. I don't think the person picking the part at a specialty shop would be quite as clueless as someone who asks if I want a pair of steering dampers instead of just one...

subzali
12-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Nice.

FWIW the Toyota dealerships around here know about Rising Sun and offer discounts to members, which sometimes results in a much better deal $$-wise and of course parts reliability-wise. One good reason to join the club :thumb:

Have to come to an event and a meeting, and then pay dues :)

spectre6000
12-08-2012, 09:38 PM
That's the ultimate intent, but there's the sticky issue of time involved in this particular instance. What sort of discount(s) do they offer?

spectre6000
12-10-2012, 06:15 PM
Today was a big day. I called CDan and ordered a ton of parts, and called SOR for the rest of the parts. Half of the parts should be here in a few days, the other half will likely be sometime next week.

I tried calling the company that's handling Toyota's consumer literature, but they said they only have two manuals: the repair manual for a 72-74 LandCruiser, and the repair manual for a 73-74 LandCruiser... The person on the phone had no idea what they were, the differences between them, why there are two that are only slightly different, etc... They were both $70, and I didn't feel like experimenting in that amount. Pretty disappointing.

The rest of the day I spent trying to find a locksmith who actually knows locksmithing. It's apparently a lot like modern automotive shops... If their computer can tell them what to replace, they'll replace it; otherwise it can't be done and you need a new car. I spent all day trying to find a locksmith that sounded like they hadn't just graduated high school. I got lucky twice; once was a woman (the wife of said locksmith) who sounded to be in her mid-30s (husband was approximately the same age), the other was a guy that was probably in his mid-40s. The woman was wise enough to know that her husband didn't know how to do what I needed to be done and was at least honest about it. The other guy was way too far away, but told me how to make the tool and do it myself. He at least knew his trade. At least one guy flat out lied to me and said it just couldn't be done... I just hung up on that asshat. I tried to pick it the best I could, and managed to be able to get about half the tumblers at a go, but it's very cold and I ran out of patience and just drilled it out...

subzali
12-11-2012, 09:42 AM
what were you trying to pick?

rover67
12-11-2012, 10:23 AM
I had a locksmith come out and make a hand cut key for a motorcycle not too long ago. He had nothing to go on and figured it out.

He didn't bother picking the lock, he just cut a key slowly by hand feeling how it interacted with the tumblers.

Price went down considerable after I gave him some beers too. He also didn't even ask to see a title or anything.

I'll try to look up who he was. It was cool watching him work. Do you still need a locksmith?

spectre6000
12-11-2012, 11:37 AM
I was trying to bet someone to pick the ignition lock so I could turn it to ACC to remove the barrel so I could get the code to have a key ordered/made. I ultimately drilled it out and ordered a new barrel (with keys) from CDan. I will need a locksmith in a week or two to cut the door keys to code and rekey the gas door lock. I talked to the Ace Hardware in Arvada, and they can rekey the lock, but can't cut the key to code. I called McGuckins (i love McGuckins), and they recommended a good locksmith who has been in business since the early 70s... Just an hour or so too late... I'm about to call them and make sure everything is doable.

Meanwhile... I hope at least some of the parts are here in the next few days (some relatively warm weather in the forecast).

rover67
12-11-2012, 12:57 PM
yeah this guys cut a new key for the motorcycle ignition from scratch. with it locked. It was neat to watch. he didn't pick it first just fit the key to it.

bummer you had to drill it out, just tell yourself it was probably worn out anyways :)

spectre6000
12-14-2012, 03:25 PM
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-6_zps28f63661.jpg

First piece of the parts order puzzle has arrived. Unfortunately, there's not much I can do with this half until the other half arrives save study the manuals. Definitely nice to have all of the printed manuals in front of me, definitely annoying that SOR felt the need to put cheap non-removable stickers on the covers of my brand new manuals AND have the nerve to charge such a premium...

nuclearlemon
12-14-2012, 07:25 PM
The rest of the day I spent trying to find a locksmith who actually knows locksmithing.

dire's lock and key, downtown denver

Fishy
12-14-2012, 07:42 PM
I had a locksmith come out and make a hand cut key for a motorcycle not too long ago. He had nothing to go on and figured it out.

He didn't bother picking the lock, he just cut a key slowly by hand feeling how it interacted with the tumblers.

Price went down considerable after I gave him some beers too. He also didn't even ask to see a title or anything.

I'll try to look up who he was. It was cool watching him work. Do you still need a locksmith?

We needed locks to be re-keyed for a house once. The locksmith was probably 80 years old. He had a suitcase full of little tumblers and bars. Plus, a handfull of small tools. Everything was done by hand. I was amazed watching him work and I followed him around like a little kid asking questions. There are just some professions and skill sets in this country that will soon be gone forever. Old school is awesome.

spectre6000
12-17-2012, 05:33 PM
My Toyota box came today! I was disappointed to find that the ignition barrel and the switch didn't fit together... I spent a good hour filing the tab down until it fit, then grabbed a coat and went down to install the bad boy! Turns out, there's an intermediate piece that the tab on the ignition cylinder fits into that in turn fits into the switch... Now the tab on the ignition cylinder was too thin and made the whole thing sloppy! Dammit! I'm so used to new parts not ever fitting without a good bit of coercion that it didn't occur to me that I was missing something... There are no diagrams in the Toyota manual (it only shows either an earlier model or a 55, not sure which). I then spent ANOTHER hour making some steel shims and epoxying them in place to beef the tab back up and remove the slop. The damage is only in my head as the steel shims will actually be a little better than the aluminum on aluminum, but my brand new ignition barrel is already less than new and I haven't even installed it yet. Additionally, I used all my daylight on that gaffe (the box didn't come until about lunch time), and all I got done in the end is plugging the switch pigtail in... Bummer.

spectre6000
12-18-2012, 04:33 PM
Fuel pump, ignition barrel, dome light, bumpers, windshield stops, and spare swing out all installed (in the snow...). I tried to remove the windshield washer reservoir, and all three bolts sheared... I can't move the truck up to where I have access to electricity until I get it running, so I can't drill the damn bolts out... I tried to get it started from the can again with the new pump, and didn't have enough battery to get it to turn over much... Never even got fuel to the filter.

Things that people might find interesting: the new Toyota dome light is different from the original (and not in a good way). The switch itself is comparably very cheap and made of the same sort of plastic as the lens. Additionally, instead of two short sheet metal screws to attach it to the body, there is only provisions for one. The other hole has a stud instead, and if you install it as it's intended to be installed it doesn't sit flush against the body. It's not at all difficult to rectify (just cut off the stud and use the spot as a locator for a hole), but a little annoying. I haven't done this yet, but it's definitely in my future. It's weird that the official Toyota part is of shoddy aftermarket fit and quality... My experience with Toyota parts has been a roller coaster of emotion so far.

Finally, I have a question. Can anyone tell me the size of the little machine screw that holds the ignition switch to the steering column? It came to me with nothing there, and I can't find anything that small in my collection of nuts and bolts. I'm hoping to be able to go down into town tomorrow and get some hardware, and it's not really something I can bring with me for reference... If no one knows and someone is willing to find out for me, it's a matter of removing the 6 machine screws holding the plastic steering column cover in place, then it's right there on the DS.

Also, has anyone installed SOR's windshield washer kit? It's similar to the stock unit, but different enough (and without any literature) to make it a bit of a puzzle... For starters, I'm not 1000% sure how it mounts to the bracket, and there are a total of three outlets for hoses instead of the single stock outlet.

Also, I broke the handle on the upper tailgate... The chromed cast piece. The tailgate was pretty out of whack when I got it. I straightened it out quite a bit, but there's still apparently a little to go. As I was opening the tailgate to grease the thing, it snapped... Does anyone have a spare handle they'd be willing to part with?

spectre6000
12-18-2012, 05:14 PM
I looked through my SOR goodies again and looked on SOR's website. Nothing about how this pump is supposed to be hooked up. I googled it and ended up on CCOT's site, and they have a scan of a copy of a copy of a copy of the installation instructions for the same kit. It's ALMOST mostly legible, but the part I need clarification on is completely useless. I called SOR, and they have no idea either (no one's ever asked...). So am I an idiot here?

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-6_zpsf94d01ed.jpg

I have to be honest, I've never dealt with a windshield washer pump... I THINK the nozzle at the bottom of the reservoir feeds to the clocked nozzle on the pump, then the nozzle pointing straight up goes to the sprayers on the hood... Anyone have any insight on this?

Regardless, I'm going to try to use the original one (I got the kit as a spare/insurance), but I have my doubts that it works.

spectre6000
12-18-2012, 05:42 PM
Argh! Can't win today. I just got off the phone with the fuel tank repair guy. He initially said it was going to be about 2 weeks (not exactly, that's on me), and he said he'll likely give me a call some time Thursday... I assume that call is to come pick it up. That really puts a cramp in my getting this thing on the road by the weekend (my optimistic projection as of this morning)... With the snow starting to accumulate and our other car not being very appropriate to the driving conditions, I'm getting pretty anxious to get this thing on the road. Never mind the fact that I just want to drive the thing for what it is...

subzali
12-18-2012, 05:49 PM
IF (big IF) that's a tiny itsy bitsy centrifugal pump, which it looks like it is, then the suction would be the nozzle "pointing straight up" and the discharge would be the tangential nozzle. Is the motor on the other side of the plastic tab?

Never messed with an aftermarket washer reservoir though, so take that for what it's worth.

As far as the dome light - the original one starting in 1974 was plastic too, and often the switch is broken because of that. Pictures of the before and after would help. It's this one basically right? Didn't know they had any variations of this part...
http://coolfj40.stores.yahoo.net/domligin.html

spectre6000
12-18-2012, 05:56 PM
The motor is on the other side of the plastic tab, yes.

The new one is installed down in the car. The original switch was plastic (mine was broken off), but (as far as I can tell from the stub) a different sort of plastic from the lens and had a proper toggle versus the new one (from Toyota) using the switch as a lever to push a metal leaf to a contact. It is the same as the one in the link (assuming the one the link is Toyota).

When I take it back out to do the modifications to the mounting setup, I'll take photos. It's dark now, and I just got out of the shower, so photos will have to wait.

spectre6000
12-19-2012, 10:37 PM
Can anyone tell me the size of the little machine screw that holds the ignition switch to the steering column? It came to me with nothing there, and I can't find anything that small in my collection of nuts and bolts. I'm hoping to be able to go down into town tomorrow and get some hardware, and it's not really something I can bring with me for reference... If no one knows and someone is willing to find out for me, it's a matter of removing the 6 machine screws holding the plastic steering column cover in place, then it's right there on the DS.

spectre6000
12-21-2012, 06:13 PM
I got my keys cut and my lock keyed this afternoon at Buffalo Lock and Key in Boulder, so I have a complete set and everything matches! Also, for reference, and this was a complete surprise, they had the blanks on hand! I brought in some Toyota blanks, but they only insure their blanks (not sure what sort of insuring you would do for a key, but there it is). So I have two Toyota Motors door keys, and one Ilbis (or something like that). If you need keys made, those are your guys.

I also picked up the gas tank (finally!), and it is everything I wanted it to be. Spike Radiator in Sheridan is the place to go for that. Carl is the owner/operator, is a great guy to deal with, will only do it the right way, and does what he says he's going to do. It was a few days later than anticipated, but he said about two weeks and I thought two weeks, so that's on me. Highly recommended. I have a meeting to get to down in town (what fun, a meeting on a Friday night the Friday before xmas...), so photos aren't going to happen until tomorrow.

spectre6000
12-22-2012, 02:36 PM
Here are some photos of the gas tank:

Top
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy8-1_zps5d2a01fa.jpg
bottom
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy4-1_zps0649fe80.jpg
Here's the hole that was cut in the top to allow access to the inside for blasting (not everything can be reached from the filler/sender holes).
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy7-1_zpsbe96fc00.jpg
Here's the other one in the bottom
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy6-1_zps90a94004.jpg
The rest are photos of where he soldered up up pinholes
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy9-1_zps2d69b15e.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy10-1_zpsd266afe3.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy5-1_zps3451c355.jpg

Not something you might do for concourse, and I would have likely used a mig instead of solder for a cleaner look, but who sees the gas tank anyway? With the modern liner in there correctly applied, it's better now than when it left the factory floor and I'm a happy camper!

spectre6000
12-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Here's how it sits now:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy11-1_zpsb6a456d9.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy2-1_zps3bf80b13.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy-1_zpsb6be1e89.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-6_zpsb08fc7bf.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy3-1_zps1d2a5ea3.jpg

Aside from the missing license plates, spare tire, and the tailgate handle that's about how it'll look for until I get done with my current body-off restoration.

I'm waiting until tomorrow to put the tank in. He said the liner needs to cure for 24 hours, and when I picked it up it still smelled pretty fresh and it's fairly cool in my house. Since I won't be able to get it registered until after I get back from visiting family, I'm going to let it go until tomorrow morning. Tomorrow I'll throw the tank in, plumb it, and fire it up. Then adjust valves and timing, and I'll see what I can do to find that vacuum leak that keeps gnawing at the back of my mind and drive it up the hill to where I can drill out those stupid sheared bolts that have been staring me in the face...

Then it all gets put on hold for a week... Once I get back, I'll take it to Rocky Mountain Cruisers (unless anyone thinks there is a better alternative) and get a wellness checkup (just to make sure I didn't miss anything out of Land Cruiser naiveté) and a new windshield (can't do that solo...), then inspection and registration and finally some good tires!

farnhamstj
12-22-2012, 05:41 PM
Thanks for the pics. (i'm a visual learner)

subzali
12-22-2012, 05:45 PM
Your pictures of your fuel tank reminded me - in some cases the fuel tanks rust from the outside in. Getting grit and water underneath the tank, and letting it sit, can cause those pinholes. That's what happened to mine. So I am planning on putting some POR-15 on it to give it some extra mechanical resistance to rust attack from the outside. Just my two cents.

spectre6000
12-23-2012, 04:13 PM
Huzzah! Back together (save some non-critical bits) and running/driving/stopping! :D I drove it about 3-4 miles total from my house to the gas station and back. This would have been a good time for a photo, save that I didn't bring my phone with me (there's usually no point since there's no service up here)...

New to do list:

-I can't seem to get it out of 4 wheel drive. It shifted in and out when I started fooling around with it this afternoon, but won't shift out. Goes from 4 high to 4 low without any trouble... :confused: Not sure what might be the issue here save some linkage adjustment...

-Did not want to get warm. I know it's cold and all (and the cold weather intake was set accordingly), but I couldn't get it above the lowest tick in the normal range on the temp gauge, and couldn't get it to run without the choke about halfway. Higher RPM resulted in lower temp... I hoping it's just the tune and not the thermostat... That would be my luck.

-No guts. Could not go up my driveway (which is admittedly VERY steep) save in 4 low. After this, I set the timing (was set per the book by PO, now advanced from that 3-4 degrees), which will undoubtedly help.

-Further lack of guts. Once in 3rd, it would not accelerate. Timing accounts for some of this, but the rest is no doubt the poor jetting.

-Brakes pull to the right. Just need to adjust them... Too bad I don't have any solid ground to jack the bastard up on... I'll have to go on a rock hunt for one that's big/flat enough... In the snow... :rant:

-I was messing with the radio while it was warming up, and the tuning knob seems to be messed up somehow... It worked, then let go, then worked a little more, then did nothing again... I gave up without really putting up much of a fight. I'm not much of a radio person anyway.

-Shortly after I got it going, the choke refused to be pushed back in... I came inside and did a quick search on Mud and found the solution (it was pulled past the catch spring, I reached up underneath and poked it up with my finger while pushing it in with the other hand). Choke is again functional.

-Valve adjustment. I was planning to do this after setting the timing, but between not having a replacement gasket, not being sure the best way to advance the valve train with the engine off (I prefer to adjust valves with the engine off to save wear on my feeler gauges), and just running out of time, this will have to wait until I get back from family visitation...

-Distributor seems to wobble a bit... Not sure what to make of that. I don't like it, but I don't know that it's not normal or that there's anything that can be done. Would anyone care to offer some insight?

MDH33
12-23-2012, 05:01 PM
You're definitely getting to learn about your 40 in this process. It's all good. :hill:

Having to run it with the choke is probably due to that air leak you thought you could hear. Does your carb spacer have the tube to the PCV on ours? Those commonly crack, check that.

Try rolling about 20 feet in reverse and then it will pop out of 4hi.

Make sure none of the wheel cylinders or calipers are frozen before fiddling with adjustments. It's enough of a pain without frozen cylinders.

You can usually re-use the valve cover gasket, so go ahead and get your valves set.

Distributor wobbling, hmm. Is the adjustment handle/screw/not sure what to call it in place and tight? Were you able to freely rotate it too?

spectre6000
12-23-2012, 05:16 PM
Yeah, I forgot to put that vacuum leak on my to do list above... Blurgh... It's definitely between the intake manifold and the brake booster, but that's as close as I can get it without a second set of hands...

It does have the PCV spacer, and it's not cracked (or wasn't when I was messing with it last).

I'll try the reverse trick. It had to roll in reverse for double or triple that for me to park it, and it wouldn't shift out afterwards... Are you suggesting to try to shift it out while it is moving in reverse?

The running gear has all been rebuilt, so that's actually one of the few things I'm not concerned about. :)

Also, while I'm thinking about it, I'm finally to the point where I can start worrying about jetting! It dawned on me during a thread on Mud about jetting that the weird jetting that it came to me with is VERY likely nothing like what it seems. To save anyone from having to go back however many pages, the jetting as it came to me was:

PO jetting
Slows 55/80
primary main 20
secondary main 180
plugs 55/114
power (forgot to write it down and don't have time to open the carb back up to check it out right now)

That jetting obviously didn't make sense, so I rearranged it thusly:
Current Jetting
Slows 55/80 (not much I can do about it without some replacements)
primary main 114
secondary main 180
plugs 55/20
power (same scenario)

Factory recommended jetting for 6,600' (which is actually ideal for me):
Factory jetting
Slows ???
primary main 1.08
secondary main 2.00
power 0.80
plugs 1.12/0.90

So IF the jets are correctly marked (which I very sincerely doubt), I am running a size rich in the primary and a few sizes lean in the secondary... But the PO's jetting was entirely nonsensical. I don't own a set of jetting gauges to find out what I really have, but I'm pretty sure my jetting is just terrible and can only cause trouble. I'm officially in the market for some jets in the sizes recommended in the manual (as stated above). Any ideas where they might be found? SOR doesn't have but maybe one of them, and I haven't found anyone else claiming to have them...

subzali
12-23-2012, 09:11 PM
you'll probably have to get a core carb of the same model year to get the jets you want.

x2 on everything else Martin said. To turn the engine over when it's off, you can put it in high gear and roll it. Easier on a flat surface with a helper, obviously. In your case not sure. If you had the factory hand crank you could do that. You might still be able to get that from Toyota. You could also take off the clutch inspection cover and rotate the flywheel maybe?

If your transfer case isn't bound up then it might be a linkage problem preventing you from disengaging 4wd. Try unlocking the hubs to help ease the tension on the driveline.

spectre6000
12-23-2012, 09:31 PM
http://carcraftstore.com/jetreamerkit.aspx

This is the route I intend to take at this point unless someone has or can point me in the direction of same properly sized jets. I had a buddy back in Dallas with a set that I had access to prior to coming up here. I'm still going to want to get some more jets just in case I screw something up.

If someone can point me in the direction of some place I could purchase a set of new jets, I'm still open to that (it's a bit less dependent on a steady hand).

I can't do the slow jets with this method though, and if that offer for some better slows is still up, I'd really like to take you up on it. I can trade dollars, wrenching, help fine tune your carb (with the reamers you can fine tune beyond what you could when jets WERE available AND it only takes about 20 minutes to have a fresh set of jets versus however many days they take to ship), or pay it forward. That wideband setup would really be useful for this task as well.

subzali
12-24-2012, 08:34 AM
I'm still not convinced it's really going to make that much of a difference. These are Land Cruisers, not sports cars. And this is isn't a Weber or a Holley we're talking about.

Do what makes you happy, but with a known vacuum leak and without adjusting the valves you are not realizing the full potential of your current setup.

A wobbly distributor is not normal either. You need to figure out what the problem is there. Just be aware that the distributor drives the oil pump, so if it's not seated all the way you won't have oil pressure.

MDH33
12-24-2012, 08:48 AM
Didn't want to look back through this whole thread to see if you had already read this thread:

Carb jetting for altitude (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=12851&highlight=Carb+jetting)

It has the recipe that a few of us are using to jet our carbs. I live at 8000' and mine drives fine from Denver up to 14000'.

:thumb:

PabloCruise
12-24-2012, 09:39 AM
I don't think you're the crazy one. Sounds like you put it back together a little more reasonably.

My '78 carb on my '77 2F has:
1st Main Jet: 136 (1.36mm)
2nd Main Jet: 171 (1.71mm)
1st Slow Jet: 75 (0.75mm)
2nd Slow Jet: 80 (0.80mm)
Power Valve: 80 (0.80mm)

From Moab to Argentine Pass it's never skipped a beat. Problem is it's hard to compare because every year just about was different. See here:
http://www.sor.com/sor/cat042d.tam

We had a discussion about jet sizes a couple years ago here:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=15074

I'll try to find what Randy posted about what he used in the Blue Mule (1974 F.5 engine). Personally I'm not sure it's worth getting down to the gnat's a** on this because we're talking about tractor motors here, and because we change elevation so much. A typical trail run might have you changing 5,000 feet of elevation or more in a day. I might play with mine a bit but honestly it runs fine the way it is and the plugs are fine, even with a different model year carb on it.

Okay, check out this post too from Randy and Ricardo:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?p=175380&highlight=jet#post175380

This is a good collection of links Matt!

PabloCruise
12-24-2012, 09:44 AM
SOR has two options: one is the OEM Toyota fuel pump, the other is the same manufacturer as OEM in a different box for $10 less. I checked out all of the other parts houses I have bookmarked, and of those that actually had it SOR was the cheapest (after you account for the 15% club discount and core charge). I've never known a dealership to even pretend to be a good place to buy parts without being the only possible source for said part. I could easily be wrong, so if anyone knows a better/cheaper source for such things I would really appreciate the heads up.

Justing getting through this thread now, hopefully someone turned you on to Cruiser Dan at American Toyota...

PabloCruise
12-24-2012, 10:05 AM
Sounds like a good set of issues to deal with, just in time for Christmas!

spectre6000
12-24-2012, 03:00 PM
If it's not one thing it's another... I just went out and pulled the distributor to see if there was any obvious wear on the shaft (nothing really, though the wear on the drive gear indicates it's probably time for a change), and the distributor clamp was pretty loose... I figured there must not have been a captive nut on the other end of the bolt and it just caught enough when I was tightening it to make me think it was tight. Nope! As I was putting back in, I was getting no traction. Turns out the bolt was sheared.

I feel it's worth noting here that almost all of my experience with older cars is with European stuff. I have a tendency to UNDER torque everything without an express torque spec, then come back a bit later and check to make sure it's still tight. I have a good hard shouldered bolt of an appropriate size (it will need some additional threads), but I don't have the time to mess with it right now. What a PITA.

So now I have to ask myself if the distributor was wobbling because of the bolt, or if the bolt was sheared because of the wobbling...

By the way, I was not able to put the truck in a higher gear and move it around (it's in a low spot, and I can't get it to budge at all). I was able to manipulate it using some leverage from the fan though. Lucky for me it's a sturdy steel bladed fan, and the belts are in reasonably good shape (though I think they're going to get a refresh in the not too distant future). Due to the distributor clamp woes and other considerations, it's going to have to wait until I get back.

spectre6000
12-24-2012, 05:29 PM
Good news! It was the broken stud. Definite relief. I told myself I was done with the thing until I got back, but I'm just a little OCD... I had a shouldered bolt from an exhaust clamp (and it's hardened!), and I tapped the threads down far enough to clear the clamp and we were back in business! Just in time too. While I was out there I could feel the temperature dropping, and it started snowing at a good clip as I was gathering my tools to come back inside.

subzali
12-24-2012, 09:59 PM
That brings up another thing you may or may not know about: the "deadly" orange metal blade fan.

These fans can develop stress cracks near the hub, and are known to throw blades off suddenly, which can penetrate hoods, radiators, or any thing else in their way. So it might be worth pulling off to check its condition. If suspect, a plastic-bladed fan is a suitable replacement. I think the water pump hub might have to be changed though. You can do a search on MUD and see.

Here's a few good threads:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/653464-catastrophic-water-pump-failure-photos.html

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/220710-heads-up-check-your-fan-blades.html

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/587503-fan-shroud-pics.html

spectre6000
12-24-2012, 10:34 PM
Woah! That's news to me... My fan is black, but paint can do that. Definitely going to be looking into that when I get back.

Any other things to keep an eye out for?

spectre6000
01-05-2013, 12:20 PM
Alright! I finally got back to poking around yesterday, and I THINK I've fixed the vacuum leak. The line between the manifold and the brake booster seems to have been a size too large. Sure enough, there was a bit of a crimp where it connected to the vacuum check valve at the booster. Seeing it in daylight helped figure that out quite a bit...

Unfortunately I was unable to test and be absolutely sure that the fix is good... Something seems to have died in the ignition system (which has been less than completely cooperative all along). With the exception of the points and condenser, everything in the ignition system looks well loved... To that point, I ordered a complete setup... while that takes its sweet time getting here, I want to ask a few questions to make sure I'm seeing some things correctly.

I believe this is a condensor at the coil:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy-1_zpsa1b208a0.jpg
... and this is a condenser at the distributor...
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-6_zpsf6f75966.jpg
The distributor condenser is as I would expect it, but the one at the coil looks to be redundant (though it may be the other way around). The condenser is eliminated with the electronic points so it's fairly moot, but for my own betterment I want to make sure I'm not going crazy.

There's also the question of this little guy:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy5-1_zps92c5a154.jpg
I've looked through all of the wiring diagrams I can get my hands on, and through the various manuals and I'm really not convinced I know what this is. I THINK it's the ballast resistor, which would also be eliminated with the Pertronix setup, but a little assurance would be helpful.

Finally there's the question of this guy....
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy6-1_zpseddf929c.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy2-1_zps48d32a85.jpg
It's in context with the ignition pieces, and right alongside them in the harness, but again I'm not seeing anything about it in any schematics or manuals... There are two green/yellow wires and a green/red wire... I might be blind, but this is giving me pause.

subzali
01-05-2013, 08:58 PM
You should post those pics to mud. I'm not too familiar with ignition systems. Post pics of your fan too

spectre6000
01-05-2013, 09:09 PM
Posted at Mud. I'll see what I can do about photos of the fan. It's black, but the PO did a good amount of reconditioning various things including the use of black paint. It's definitely a four-bladed steel fan though... Are there multiple versions of this fan, and are the problematic ones specific to a certain period of production?

subzali
01-05-2013, 11:52 PM
I think all four bladed steel fans are suspect

spectre6000
01-06-2013, 11:24 AM
Just in case anyone comes by later, the answer to the ignition system identification questions are that the condensers are both condensers and redundant. I imagine the distributor condenser was installed alongside a set of points sometime in the not too distant past.

The third photo is the ballast resistor and is optionally removed with the install of the Pertronix setup (instructions are included).

The part in the last two photos is the horn relay. A quick glance at a wiring diagram more or less confirms the wire colors. A quicker glance at the horn relay diagram on SOR's website furthers my conviction. Some poking with a multimeter would further confirm if I weren't convinced enough, but it's cold out there...

spectre6000
01-07-2013, 05:27 PM
I installed 3-point seat belts in the front and a lap belt for the seat that is presently installed in the back. Then I pulled the jets that are in the carb so I can gauge them and see what I actually have to work with and can hopefully get it running well enough to get it inspected. Then I installed the new CCOT lift gate handle (no fitment problems whatsoever), greased both mechanisms and the lever works, and finished tweaking it to get it to open and close a little more smoothly. It's still a little stickier than I would like (the door is a little tweaked), but it's probably about average (I'm really picky about things like door adjustment). Some day I'll have a few more strong guys around that can help me straighten it back out the rest of the way, but until then it's going to have to ride as is.

As I was typing the above, I finally got confirmation regarding a jet collection! As soon as the USPS gets my goody bag here I'll have a dozen and a half assorted jets to work with and get this thing dialed in! My micrometer arrives tomorrow (for marking out the ream set and fine tuning), my Pertronix setup isn't far behind, then comes the jets... Days away from inspection now!

subzali
01-07-2013, 07:59 PM
inspection? What's that?

PabloCruise
01-07-2013, 08:41 PM
Sounds like some major strides!

Congrats on the progress!

MDH33
01-07-2013, 08:45 PM
inspection? What's that?

Emissions I presume?

spectre6000
01-07-2013, 08:55 PM
It hasn't been registered in a long time. No plates. Don't even fully have the title in my name yet. Gotta pass emissions (which requires it to run well enough to get to the testing station) before I can get it plated and start driving it.

gr8fulabe
01-07-2013, 09:04 PM
No emissions on a 74. Just take the paperwork to your DMV & get it titled/plated.

It hasn't been registered in a long time. No plates. Don't even fully have the title in my name yet. Gotta pass emissions (which requires it to run well enough to get to the testing station) before I can get it plated and start driving it.

spectre6000
01-07-2013, 09:43 PM
http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/about-the-test/

http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/about-the-test/1981-and-older/i-m-240-exceptions/

I don't really want to run collector plates, and the inspection isn't particularly difficult to pass. I can't run it until it runs, so it's just one more errand. Just gotta get it going...

Meanwhile, things are heating up at work (which requires me to leave the house far more often) which simultaneously increases the need to get it done and decreases the time available to do so.

subzali
01-08-2013, 08:14 AM
Why wouldn't you want to run collector's plates? I think that's what you automatically get with a 1974...

spectre6000
01-08-2013, 12:36 PM
FYI, I told some people I'd let them know when I found a source for jets. I don't remember where I said that, so I'm just going to state it here since the source is limited. I got in touch with Jim Chenoweth (FJ40Jim) on Mud, and he sent me a dozen and a half or so assorted sizes. What he has is limited, so first jump to RS.

spectre6000
01-08-2013, 08:23 PM
My micrometer was supposed to be delivered today... All I have to show for it is this:

"Left At:
Other - released"

Not sure what that means... It's not where deliveries are usually left, the neighbor knows nothing of it, and what I have to go on is for all intents and purposes meaningless... Thanks UPS.

spectre6000
01-09-2013, 11:02 AM
Further investigation last night, and there's a note (in UPS's system) saying it was left on the "front porch" (which would be a very odd description for where one might leave a package here). I looked all over the place with a flashlight and found nothing. I decided to put it off until morning when I had some better light. I just came back in, and what do you know? As I step out my front door I hear an engine fire up. When I turn the corner, it's the UPS truck! My package is sitting at the base of the stairs where they are always left (along with another package for the neighbor)! UPS lied to me! I'm really not all that upset, I got my tool after all, but it really doesn't sit right... I don't like being lied to. It's just weird.

Caribou Sandstorm
01-09-2013, 03:31 PM
Curious if you are planning on upgrading front brakes and power steering?

spectre6000
01-09-2013, 04:42 PM
Eventually on both, but not immediately on either (unless the steering box in the 60 comes through, then that might happen some time in the next year). I don't have any issues or qualms with keeping drums adjusted, and with the stock engine and stock(ish) tires I really don't need the extra braking power. I'm also very used to (and often prefer) non-power steering. If you exclude a 6-month stint with a '99 4Runner (which I wasn't terribly fond of), this will have been my newest vehicle by 16 years since college. I do intend to put a 1HZ in this (along with discs and power steering) in the next year or two, but there are likely a few vehicles ahead of it in line for major projects and I need a DD in the meantime. Additionally, where I'm currently living the most I can boast in terms of facilities is a fairly flat gravelly spot with no access to electricity (not to mention most of my tools are either 1,000 miles away or very difficult to access), so major projects are a no go unless forced by necessity.

spectre6000
01-09-2013, 10:32 PM
Just found out my ignition setup not only hasn't shipped, but it's out of stock... Pertronix is ALSO out... They're supposedly making one up, but I won't even find out about that until tomorrow at the earliest. As far as I know, that's all that's standing between me and a running driving 40... That and a day or so's worth of tuning...

spectre6000
01-10-2013, 12:27 PM
The accelerator pump boot from a Warner carburetor rebuild kit:

Total miles covered +/-3
Total runtime (includes stationary idling for tuning) +/- 2 hours

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-6_zpsb3c6433b.jpg

Not only is the boot cracked, the top is completely separated from the rest at the top bellow. Do not recommend.

Does anyone have a spare by any chance?

spectre6000
01-10-2013, 03:44 PM
I finally got around to mic'ing my reams. Red marks on the fives, white with red on the quarters, and white on the halves. The pin vise that came with the reams broke the second time I mounted a ream in it, so that's on the order list if I can't find one at Ace or McGuckins. For reference if anyone is interested, the gauges and reams are all EMPI brand which is a really hit or miss aftermarket manufacturer that makes VW parts. The gauges and reams are made in Germany, so I figured it was worth a shot. Aside from the pin vise I feel good about them. I have some jets to clean up from my original set, so I'll let you know how that goes.

I got a mm micrometer for $11 +shipping. I thought it was probably a too good to be true sort of thing, and it kind of was. It's functional, but some assembly was required and it needed to be set up before it was usable. On the whole though, I'm pretty happy with it. I used my jet gauges as a stand for the micrometer and as a drying rack for the reams. Range is from .30mm to 2.00mm.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-6_zps3651b7a8.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy2-1_zpse0a69d02.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy-1_zps6f8c4c13.jpg

My jet collection showed up today, and if I had my ignition setup I'd be in business! The reason you want jetting gauges is so that you know when Toyota/Aisan seems to have made all 120 mains slightly undersized, someone has reamed your new 70 power jet to 80, and you 60 slow is undersized. You want the reams to make them right.

subzali
01-10-2013, 05:15 PM
I think you're the only person in Land Cruiser-ism to do this. I could be wrong, because Jim C. works "magic" that he doesn't really share and nobody really questions him on, but he would be the only other person that I could imagine even thinking about doing this.

But I just have to ask - doesn't that make you wonder if it's really worth it? That it will really make that much of a difference? In a Land Cruiser engine? Really?

Okay, I said it. Flame suit on.

Jenny Cruiser
01-10-2013, 05:58 PM
Jim C gets plenty of questions, but he doesn't answer them. This is way more OCD than I'd ever be with anything other than apex strafing, but I think it's at least more interesting than a thread about air fresheners. :borg:

spectre6000
01-10-2013, 07:43 PM
It's very difficult to run counter to a commonly held conception without flame suits, and I hope I don't make anyone feel one is necessary.

For starters, I never concern myself with what others are doing save as examples for what NOT to do. It's a philosophy that's served me very well.

I'm just as confused (if not more so) as to why you don't pay this much attention to your vehicle as you are about why I'm paying so much. I once drove and relied on cars tuned to the same level of detail you would seem to be advocating. Eventually, I learned how to do it the rest of the way (dispelled the magic you might say) and my cars performed better and were more reliable. I enjoy the snappy response that comes from a burn with just the right air fuel ratio (and everything else being similarly in line). It's a very visceral thing; you see it, hear it, feel it, smell it, and I imagine you could taste it if you were so inclined.

A well tuned engine is a completely different animal from one that just runs (especially one that's low powered to begin with). It's not an easy thing to describe, but I'll gladly show you if you are truly interested. Otherwise you're going to either have to dismiss me or take my word for it (and who am I?).

nakman
01-10-2013, 11:52 PM
... but I think it's at least more interesting than a thread about air fresheners. :borg:

I agree, this has been fun to watch. And I want to hear this thing idle some time. :D :beer:

subzali
01-11-2013, 08:24 AM
It's very difficult to run counter to a commonly held conception without flame suits, and I hope I don't make anyone feel one is necessary.

For starters, I never concern myself with what others are doing save as examples for what NOT to do. It's a philosophy that's served me very well.

I'm just as confused (if not more so) as to why you don't pay this much attention to your vehicle as you are about why I'm paying so much. I once drove and relied on cars tuned to the same level of detail you would seem to be advocating. Eventually, I learned how to do it the rest of the way (dispelled the magic you might say) and my cars performed better and were more reliable. I enjoy the snappy response that comes from a burn with just the right air fuel ratio (and everything else being similarly in line). It's a very visceral thing; you see it, hear it, feel it, smell it, and I imagine you could taste it if you were so inclined.

A well tuned engine is a completely different animal from one that just runs (especially one that's low powered to begin with). It's not an easy thing to describe, but I'll gladly show you if you are truly interested. Otherwise you're going to either have to dismiss me or take my word for it (and who am I?).

That's a fair enough response.

For me, in your posts it seems like you don't like the way your FJ40 runs (e.g. can't get up your driveway in high range) and you're blaming it on the jetting. All the while, there are dozens of FJ40 drivers in this club and others that have no problems driving up to 10, 11, 12, or even 13,000 feet with stock (sea level) jetting and not having any real issues with doing so.

I guess you could say we don't know what we're missing, but I for one am not going to stop on the side of the road and change my jets when my day trip takes me from 5,000 feet to over 13,000 feet and back in a matter of a few hours. And that's because honestly my FJ40 doesn't seem to care.

And I can vouch that the difference in power between running only on the primary barrel of the carb and having the secondary barrel available is noticeable, but not really that huge of a difference :o:D

It seems you have other issues that need addressing that would make a larger difference, IMO, than your jetting. Ignition, timing, valve adjustment, vacuum leak, and wobbly distributor come to mind from your posts. I think you've fixed a couple of these, but a couple are still up for grabs. I guess my approach to fixing problems is picking the low-hanging fruit first, and then if I still want to optimize and have the time, that can always come later.

Each of us gets into this hobby for our own reasons, and I'm really not trying to take away from what you have a passion for, which appears to be working on and tweaking carburetors, but I just don't understand why you aren't going after the low-hanging fruit first - why you're immediately going after jetting, which just isn't an issue with very many other FJ40 owners (in my experience, which admittedly is limited).

And I'm also really curious as to what other experienced Cruiser gearheads in this club think, because hardly any of them have posted up on this discussion. I'm still trying to learn too :)

:wrench:

subzali
01-11-2013, 08:27 AM
And I think you misunderstand me when you state that I don't pay attention to my vehicle. The thing is I have been chasing my tail with my FJ40 for 8 years, and while honestly I have thought about doing what you are talking about doing with optimizing the jetting, the reality is that there are too many other pressing issues that I've needed to deal with first. My plugs are fine when I pull them, so I don't feel pressed to fix what ain't broke. But I got plenty of other broke on my FJ40 and I am pressed to fix those issues :hill:

Uncle Ben
01-11-2013, 08:38 AM
It's very difficult to run counter to a commonly held conception without flame suits, and I hope I don't make anyone feel one is necessary.

For starters, I never concern myself with what others are doing save as examples for what NOT to do. It's a philosophy that's served me very well.

I'm just as confused (if not more so) as to why you don't pay this much attention to your vehicle as you are about why I'm paying so much. I once drove and relied on cars tuned to the same level of detail you would seem to be advocating. >snip<


If you post play by play on a forum you should expect questions from armchair mechanics! Fuel your passion and experiment fully committed! I gave up trying to share a long time ago as all forums will drain you. 2F's respond extremely well to common "free" horsepower tricks of the trade! Enjoy......what a fun project! :thumb::thumb:

subzali
01-11-2013, 09:01 AM
Thank you Kevin! I agree this has been the most interesting thread on this forum for a while!

RicardoJM
01-11-2013, 09:43 AM
... And I'm also really curious as to what other experienced Cruiser gearheads in this club think, because hardly any of them have posted up on this discussion. I'm still trying to learn too :) ...

I've found the thread intresting to follow. I'm really looking forward to the jetting and tuning aspects. Fact is my, "learning list" still has a project that would involve comparing Aisan, Webber, Rochester, Holly, Motocraft carbs. Install a carb, run it on a loop up Hwy 85 to Greeley, out Hwy 34 to Estes down Hwy 36 to home - swap carb and repeat. This project is the primary reason I picked up the Zeitronix unit. What would be the purpose, what would I learn from the exercise? I dunno - but it would be a cool thing to do :D.

I can also understand where there may be a feeling that re-jetting now doesn't seem like the "next thing that should be done" versus "tune it up", "baseline it", "check compression", "leak down test", etc. should be next.

More to the specifics of the truck in this thread. The lack of power might be coming from other issue(s) than the Carb and jetting, i.e. a dead cylinder, head gasket failure, worn dizzy shaft, vacuum leak - things that would be identified by following the tune up steps in the FSM.

That said, if tuning the jets is next on the list -go for it. Worst case the jetting gets revisted.

All that said, underlying everything we need to keep in mind that we are talking about a tractor engine in 40 year old vehicle that most of us don't drive faster than 70 for longer than a few minutes at a time. :thumb:

spectre6000
01-11-2013, 12:41 PM
Based on the responses since last night, I must have left a few things out along the way or not been very good at communicating my thoughts. I haven't fully had it running yet. When I picked it up, it hadn't really been run in several years and had been mostly disassembled for some shade tree body work. You guys are absolutely right that there are things more important to the overall running condition of the truck than carburetor jetting, and you'll not hear me argue otherwise. That said, a properly tuned carb is about as important as a properly set distributor in my book.

You may notice that I haven't actually done any carb tuning yet because I haven't done all of the things you collectively described above yet. The lack of power was due in no small part to retarded timing, and I expect to find at least one tight exhaust valve. I think I fixed my vacuum leak, but my fuel pump died while I was tracking it down so I had to stop and fix that (my fuel system save the hard lines is now completely new or rebuilt)... Then my coil died before I could make sure it was totally rectified (ignition system will be nearly to the same level as the fuel system)... Now I have to wait until the end of next week to install that (the seller was out of stock without realizing it, and Pertronix had to MAKE one).

The current order of operation is as follows:
- Figure out why the transfer case shifter won't come out of four wheel drive
-- Rectify
- Install new ignition setup
-- Set timing
-- Check to make sure everything else is in spec (mainly dwell since the rest probably won't spec out right being aftermarket...)
- Make sure the vacuum leak is, in fact, fully rectified
-- If not, I think the next culpable part is the vacuum check valve boot, so I'll have to order one of those little bastards
- Warm it up and adjust the valves (the new gasket is sitting on my coffee table)
- Baseline the carb
-- Factory jetting
-- Idle mixture
-- Idle speed
- Drive the truck up to where I can reach it with electricity so I can drill out the sheared bolts and install the bezel, windshield washer system, and DS jump seat
- Inspection, registration
- Tires
-- See if I can swap the spare aftermarket wheel out at Jim's for one that fully matches first
- Windshield
- Windshield wipers
- Tune carb
-- Check and record performance of factory sea level jets
-- Ditto factory altitude jets
-- Fine tune old school (unless I can get my hands on a wide band setup in the meantime)
-- Document for posterity

You'll note that fine tuning the carb is at the very end of everything. Mic'ing out reams and tracking down jets is a great way to feel like I'm doing something while I'm waiting for other parts to come in, and clearly something that isn't widely known in the TLC universe. If you discount my wife's car, this is my newest car out of three by more than a decade and a half (and a few years later than what I generally entertain) and I will undoubtedly go through many more in the coming years, so the reams and gauges aren't solely for this project. I bought a set corresponding to this project because jets for these carbs are NLA and doing so is cheaper than the plane ticket that would be required to utilize the set I would have in the past. I still need to get another pin vise (ordered last night) and a bunch of ultra fine drill bits to be able to plug and ream what I have (which I intend to write up for those interested). The 70 power jet I just received has been punched out to an 80, so I'll close it up and ream it to a true 70 for tutorial purposes.

I come from a different end of the automotive hobby. As I've said in the past, aircooled cars are very sensitive to tune. You'll never hear someone bragging about setting their timing by ear because they will have burned up their engine as a result and have to rebuild. Run too lean: 5hp may not seem like much until you only have 50 to start with, valves burn very fast, cylinders melt, studs pull, flanges warp... welcome to rebuild town. Run too rich: (same general concept as running too lean), rebuild. Too much timing: you get the idea. If you drive an aircooled car, you learn to hear what your engine is telling you. You either must learn to do all your own work (which is more fun anyway), or you must have an enormous bank account (especially for the Porsches) and incredible patience. Cars are like women: aircooled cars are beautiful, complex, and a little high maintenance, but if you take care of them they'll take care of you. These trucks are nowhere near as needy, but they definitely enjoy the attention all the same.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/SP_A0296.jpg

Others of my hobbies include watchmaking and luthiery (which may explain some of my automotive eccentricities). I can hear the differences in how a guitar is built and what it is made of from a single strummed chord. Those tonal nuances are just as apparent in a car's engine. I can hear when something is off and I can hear when it's just right (and it bugs the crap out of me when it's not). When I was out shopping for cars, I found a guy's exhaust leak (missing exhaust manifold stud on the rearmost DS cylinder) on his V8 by sound after driving the truck for less than a quarter mile. We pulled over, lifted the hood, and there it was (or rather wasn't). Assuming everything else is dialed in, there is an acute tonal difference between a properly tuned carb (sharper, more staccato, and with more defined higher order harmonics) and one that's off on either end (duller, muddier, less defined; I'm guessing it has to do with the smoothness and/or completeness of the burn, maybe the speed of it?). There are other things that hint at other maladies, but this is getting way off into weirdo land... Maybe I'll make more sense if/when you meet me in person.

subzali
01-11-2013, 01:10 PM
... Maybe I'll make more sense if/when you meet me in person.

I think a lot of us are looking forward to that :thumb:

spectre6000
01-11-2013, 01:49 PM
I hope that's a positive thing. Challenging paradigms is rarely well received, and I've been getting a bit nervous.

I'm also a bit curious at what is being found interesting (and a bit flattered that there is such interest in the first place). I haven't been terribly good about photos to this point in part because I'm not sure what exactly is interesting to this crowd. So far (from my perspective anyway) there hasn't been anything that strikes me as very out of the box or that wouldn't have been seen too many times to be worth looking at again. I'm more than happy to chase a rabbit further down its hole if there is interest in the subject.

I just came in from gathering up tools for tomorrow's disassembly of LoudBay's 60 and troubleshooting my sticky transfer case shifter. Linkage checked out from above and below. A little persuasion with the backside of my crescent wrench and some rocking back and forth (it's in a low spot and I can't get it to actually roll) and it went back into two wheel drive. It seems to shift readily enough now. I still don't know why it stuck in the first place, so I'll have to keep an eye on it... The boots down there are toast, so I see a rebuild in the near future.

PabloCruise
01-11-2013, 03:07 PM
FWIW - I am enjoying this thread and all the carb theory talk a great deal.
I usually just have time to read a post or two and then it is on to the next issue at hand, and I seldom have enough wisdom/insight to warrant a post.
It does seem like your efforts have been thwarted by things like fuel pumps and distributors, so I look forward to when you get things running and set about the tuning aspect.
Also, I can relate to the behavior of buying things when you are stuck to make you feel like you are making progress. That is why I hae lots of parts, and 2 unfinished Cruisers!

60wag
01-11-2013, 03:32 PM
Maybe it was already mentioned but be sure the check the vac diaphram that operates the secondary barrel of the carb. When the diapram fails, the truck runs but is low on power because the secondary barrel never opens.

spectre6000
01-11-2013, 10:20 PM
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?p=224697#post224697

Still waiting for parts, so here's something that some of you might find interesting based on the most recent posts.

spectre6000
01-12-2013, 07:27 PM
Met a bunch of Rising Sun guys today at Tim's house in Louisville to pull apart Matt's 60. Great bunch of guys, great work ethic, got a lot done, and had a lot of fun! Really looking forward to future get togethers and workdays!

DanS
01-12-2013, 11:21 PM
I'm finding the carb discussion interesting, even if useless for me. (I'm a diesel nerd). Do your thing!

Dan

spectre6000
01-15-2013, 04:20 PM
DanS, I used to work in experimental feedstocks for the largest biodiesel refinery in the US. Long term I intend to put a 1HZ in this truck.

Update (if it can be called one): The ignition parts I need finally shipped today... Not thrilled with the seller. The pin vise I ordered shipped today as well (far less critical). Hopefully I can be running in time to get the gov't paperwork done before the weekend and actually start driving this thing. I did some legwork today to track down a windshield. Success was found at what I deem a reasonable price. I just reinstalled the carb after my writeup... That's about all there is to report. Pretty lame if you ask me...

euroford
01-15-2013, 07:20 PM
Met a bunch of Rising Sun guys today at Tim's house in Louisville to pull apart Matt's 60. Great bunch of guys, great work ethic, got a lot done, and had a lot of fun! Really looking forward to future get togethers and workdays!

Was really nice to meet you, and i hope we get a chance to work together some more! (i guess i know we will, as your drivetrain is in my garage...)

with some warmer temps of course.

I DIG IT when people share this stuff, as long term it becomes a resource for others, and provides me entertaining content to peruse. :cheers:

PabloCruise
01-16-2013, 12:12 PM
FYI: if you need windshield in the future, they are flat stock. You can have a glass shop cut to fit...

spectre6000
01-16-2013, 02:01 PM
I actually tracked down the glass shop, etc. yesterday morning. I didn't go so far as to make an appointment due to its place on the priorities list, but I found my guy at a good price and turnaround time.

spectre6000
01-17-2013, 09:09 PM
Sooo.... Today was a bust... According to the USPS tracking info, my ignition parts were to arrive today. It was a warm day (upper 30s) though, so I didn't want to waste half of it waiting for the postman. A set of new suspension bushings was including among the many boxes this thing arrived in, and I figured it was a one banana job...

The DS front shackle was absolutely one banana. That's where the fun stopped. The DS frame mount pivot refused to cooperate. Refused. I broke two screw drivers. I tried every prying and hammering implement I own. Eventually I pulled out a pulley puller and had just enough real estate to get the bastard far enough out to manipulate. Wow. Getting the new bushings in was a breeze, but then I had to get the whole package back together. This was another exercise in futility. For starters, the "flat spot" that I have to work with can really only be called that if you don't actually look at it. It's also sand and small rocks... and snow. Floor jacks don't work too well if they can't roll. In case you didn't know, they pull the truck sideways. If you have to put the truck up and down enough, you'll move it a good 6 feet on the diagonal so that you're constantly laying in fresh snow. Additionally, despite owning 2-3 floor jacks and a whole fleet of jack stands, all I managed to move up here was the one jack... So that made things even more fun. At one point in my frustration, I decided it would be best to disconnect the axle from the spring so I could take the weight off the spring and move it around a bit easier... Unfortunately, a rock (one assumes) had hit the quarter inch thick steel plate that the u-bolts connect to making one of the u-bolts immovable until I can get the truck to an air hammer... I finally managed to get the bastard of a pin back in its hole using a pry bar, the spring as a fulcrum, the frame as a secondary fulcrum, and a screwdriver as a sort of sliding lock mechanism... Then I was able to bring the pin home.

At this point, I had a phone conference... When I came inside, I took off my glove to find that what I thought was some sort of rusty spring lube (I honestly hadn't given it much thought) was actually a glove full of blood. At some point (fairly early I imagine) I did SOMETHING to my left index finger... No idea. But lots of blood. The wound(s) honestly don't make a lot of sense... Not a cut really, or a pinch, lots of little abrasions (maybe) and a big sort of tear... Anyway, phone conference...

I go back out there thinking I'm on the home stretch. NOT! I buggered up the last few threads on the damn stud. Despite having several dozen taps and dies (in the state even!), I didn't have the one I needed. I managed to straighten the threads a bit (debatable in retrospect) with a chisel, then promptly cross threaded the whole thing...

At this point I needed to pick my wife up from work, and the sun was going down... I went to McGuckins and got a tap/die set (I always buy them in pairs), a set of ratchet straps, and another nut...

This is not my first automotive ro-day-oh, but what a crappy day... The ignition parts did come, but I didn't even pretend to try to do anything about it.

PabloCruise
01-18-2013, 11:42 AM
Ignition parts!!!

Fire it up, buttercup!

corsair23
01-18-2013, 01:51 PM
I admire your "sticktoit-tiveness" :thumb:

Especially under less than ideal wrenching conditions. When I first read that this was going to be your new DD I wondered how well it would all work out.

Oh and TJ, that comment made me :lmao: :D

spectre6000
01-18-2013, 02:32 PM
Aside from a brief (and boring) stint with a '99 4Runner, my previous DD was a '62 VW Bus. "Sticktoit-tiveness" is a nice way to put it. Most people call it crazy. People with certain degrees in certain fields have a name for it too. ;) My wife and I generally call it my "tick" or "itchiness".

I guess I'm done for the day... I fixed the cross threaded stud and got that all back together. I'm not going to pursue that avenue any further until I have better working conditions. I'm pretty sure one of the bushings is in a bad way, but as it sits at the worst it'll just bind up a little. I should probably get greasable hardware anyway...

I got most of the ignition kit installed. I need some 14-16 gauge butt connectors (it seems I only have 10-12 gauge in my stash) and a smaller coil bracket... My wife took the car, so I'm as done as I can be today... Lame. I believe I have meetings all day tomorrow and possibly Sunday, so this is as far as she goes until I have time, daylight, favorable weather, and a chance to go down into town for some parts. So close, yet so far...

If I had the stuff I need (or the means to get it), all I have left to do isset timing, adjust the valves, and set the carb idle in terms of function. I also need to get it to electricity so I can pull a few sheared bolts to reinstall the windshield washer reservoir and the headlight bezel. Also the DS jump seat needs access to electricity to drill out some filler and a hole in a patch plate the PO installed. Then it's off for inspection, plates, swap the spare wheel, tires, and a windshield... Essentially, one more favorable day's worth of work and one day driving all over Denver and I'm there... Unless some other ridiculous thing crops up. Given my luck lately, it's either a sure thing or I'm due some good karma.

PabloCruise
01-18-2013, 03:21 PM
Oh and TJ, that comment made me :lmao: :D



Glad I could add value... :D

spectre6000
01-18-2013, 07:37 PM
Great news everyone (a la Professor Farnesworth)! My wife picked the stuff I needed up on her way home from work, and I'm running again! REALLY well too! It's still pretty cold, and I accidentally forgot to pull the choke, but it still started up like a champ! Unfortunately though, that vacuum leak wasn't rectified after all... At least not all the way. Since I had help, a fully charged battery, and a running engine (finally!) I was able to track it down. I used a long piece of fuel line to track down the leak, and it's coming from between the master cylinder and the brake booster... I don't know the specifics on this setup yet (feel free to chime in), but it could be as little as some form-a-gasket, a real gasket, or I could be stuck for a new master/brake booster... Thoughts?

corsair23
01-18-2013, 08:14 PM
If you need a new booster (not sure if you will or not) sounds like the way to go it with an 80-series booster

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=18565

spectre6000
01-18-2013, 08:17 PM
Some quick perusal of a few manuals tells me the #1 booster seal is the likely culprit... NLA. Option 2 is to get a rebuild kit... Also NLA. It seems a few companies snatched up all the rebuild kits and are using them to rebuild as a service... Soo... Unless anyone knows different, I'm on the hook for a new brake booster.

spectre6000
01-18-2013, 08:25 PM
We posted at the same time. I'm hesitant to do too much to the engine itself in terms of upgrades because it'll get a 1HZ in the next few years, but brakes will only ever be seeing front discs and the stock booster seems appropriate for the task. Given the all-in cost of a rebuilt booster (not much different from a similar 80-series booster), it doesn't make sense to do any unnecessary modifications. Stock rocks.

subzali
01-18-2013, 09:10 PM
If you were to try and rebuild the booster, I think you also need some sort of huge spring compressor, which most people don't invest in. You could always go with a junkyard 60 series or minitruck booster to get you by for now. So do you have no power brakes then?

spectre6000
01-19-2013, 12:07 AM
I have power brakes. It's not a super heavy vacuum leak. It's kinda like the exhaust leak on that v8 I mentioned a page or two back. I hear those things. It's not enough to affect much, but it will be before long, and in the meantime it's not doing the 5 and 6 exhaust valves any favors. You can barely hear it when the engine is running, then you can hear it die down after the engine shuts off. It's faint enough that its taken me this long to track it down (though the other things that keep making the engine not work haven't helped the matter), and it's enough that I want it fixed before I start driving this thing daily.

Does anyone have any experience with fjparts.com? After core they have rebuilt boosters for $275-ish, which is pretty good from what I've seen even for the sort of boosters that need modification to make them work.

spectre6000
01-19-2013, 05:26 PM
Had a pretty productive day, all things considered. I was able to fire it up pretty easily, but I couldn't get it to go into first. I figured it was idling a little high, so I dropped the idle a bit and realized I should probably get a tach so I knew what I was doing. I hooked it up, and it was idling very smoothly at 400 RPM... That's pretty cool; nearly diesel territory. I brought it back up to the FSM spec 650, but it still wouldn't go into gear. I finally got tired of messing with it, and just slammed it in. I guess something was bound up from when I had to persuade it out of four wheel drive the other day.... Anyway, it shifts fine now! With the more or less factory spec jetting and timing where it should be, it had no trouble muscling its way up the driveway in 2HI. Rock n' roll! Once I had access to electricity, I was able to drop the front apron and remove the sheared bolts that were preventing the bezel from being installed. Then I went around to the back and removed the body filler from the captive nuts that were preventing installation of the PS jump seat, drilled the necessary hole through the PO's patch panel (riveted diamond plate aluminum to the top of the wheel well...), and installed the seat. I noticed a missing exhaust stud where the exhaust attaches to the manifold the other day (luckily, there was no discernable leak associated with it) and put a new one in. Then I removed the DS front wheel and set about removing the sheared bolts from the windshield washer setup. That didn't go so smoothly... One of the holes I drilled through the bolt was off (it's hard to center a drill upside down and at an angle), so that sucks. Then my extractor exploded (as hardened steel tends to do) in one of the others... I went and dug out my grinder (found it!) and cut all the nuts off with a cutoff wheel (not too gracefully either...). I'm short some hardware to finish the job, but it'll give me something to do while I wait for the brake booster to arrive. Almost there!

spectre6000
01-21-2013, 03:03 PM
Bezel on with proper spacers (made from what I believe is 1/4" agricultural fuel line..), and windshield washer system installed. I used SOR's kit (which is the same as CCOT's and is supposedly universal). It has no instructions whatsoever, and ALMOST works as is... I ended up having to remove the pump from the reservoir, flip it around 180, then pry up the tabs on the metal housing to clock the outlet appropriately. It wasn't at all difficult, but it seems it wouldn't be hard to find a kit that actually works without having to be torn apart first...

Anyway, my neighbor offered me his garage (nice flat concrete floor!) and his floor jack (mine made its first dying move the other day), so I'll probably go up there and finish the bushings tomorrow....

Here's how she sits (I'm probably going to paint the hold downs to match the bezel in the not too distant future... That's flat black exhaust paint because it sort of matches the look and is what I have).

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photocopy-1_zps0007bfc3.jpg

MDH33
01-21-2013, 08:15 PM
Excellent. :thumb: That concrete floor should make adjusting your brakes a little easier too. Have you made a tool yet? ;)

spectre6000
01-21-2013, 08:17 PM
A brake adjusting tool?

MDH33
01-21-2013, 08:23 PM
A brake adjusting tool?

Thought I remembered something about your brakes locking up a wheel and needing to be adjusted. wasn't sure if you had done that or not yet. Sorry, don't have time to read through the last 20 or so pages to catch up. On my 40, a standard brake adjust tool was futile, no room to work it, so I ended up making a custom one. I think Zepp and I might be the only folks still running all drums. :hill:

spectre6000
01-21-2013, 08:26 PM
It didn't lock, but it did pull one way or the other. I have a standard issue brake adjusting tool, but haven't tried messing with it yet. I figured a screw driver would do the job if the brake tool was a no-go (as was the case in the application I bought it for). What are the details on the tool?

spectre6000
01-22-2013, 06:00 PM
Here's a question!

My neighbor offered me use of his garage today, and I took him up on it. We were able to fix the bushing that wasn't really seated correctly, then he had to go. I still had use of the garage, so I attempted to see if it was worth further pursuit. I figured the best starting place was the most difficult bushing so I know if I'm going to be able to finish the task or not. The PS front spring mount has the driveshaft close enough to it to prohibit successful use of my gear puller method that was successful on the other side (I gave it a try anyway). I was able to get the pin out about 5mm, but couldn't get it to budge another inch. I didn't want to out stay my welcome by getting it apart and not being able to extract it later, so I put it back together and figured I'll try another day.

So here's the question: How do people do this? It's such a one banana affair that I MUST be doing something horrifically wrong. The manual is mum on the subject, and I figure there's some tribal knowledge that I've not yet had bestowed upon me...

So far I've tried prying with a variety of pry-things, banging with a variety of bang-things, a pulley puller, I've tried all of these with and without lube (PBlaster and synthetic grease when I could), I've tried with a ratchet strap, I've tried with multiple jacks in multiple configurations..... Does it help to undo the shackle and the mount simultaneously? I don't know that it makes sense to unbolt the springs from the axle... Are there any magic words? What's the trick? What am I missing?

corsair23
01-22-2013, 06:56 PM
I don't know the tricks other than what I read people doing which includes a lot of heat and even cutting the bushing to split it.

In your case, I'd probably just drop the front drive shaft to gain space to work...nice to have extra space when working on a difficult problem and dropping the shaft "should be" quick and simple :hill: - Not sure if you need to mark the driveshaft position so it goes back in where it was...80 series ones are a bit tempermental to avoid vibrations.

spectre6000
01-22-2013, 07:30 PM
At this point, unless I hear some brilliant means of pin/bushing extraction I'm just going to run what's on it for now (rough as it may be) and replace things when I do the lift and greasable shackles. Then I can just cut/drill things out and not worry about being able to get it back together again. The things that will suffer wear are things that will be replaced in said operation anyway...

MDH33
01-22-2013, 07:53 PM
Burn them out with a torch. They are not usually something you'll reuse.

farnhamstj
01-22-2013, 08:32 PM
I saw-zalled the pin on both sides, then burn the bushing/hammer the rest of the pinout. I do not like grease-able pins. I had 2 break in the middle where the grease holes were. don't recall the brand.

rover67
01-22-2013, 11:44 PM
I also use an oxy acetylene torch. Heat the pin up till the thing basically melts/burns itself out of the bushing.

bushings can also be a bear.. more heat for those too. basically burn them out

spectre6000
01-23-2013, 10:34 AM
IF I continue with this particular project, I need to reuse the pins and such. If it weren't for that, this wouldn't even qualify for one banana status.

PabloCruise
01-23-2013, 02:32 PM
Why do you need to re-use them?

I would replace all the hardware.
I sure wouldn't be trying to do bushings at this time of year w/o a garage! Wait until you are ready to do the lift.
Bushings suck to replace - blue-tip wrench is your ticket...

spectre6000
01-23-2013, 02:44 PM
I'm only doing it now (moreover, was) because I have a set of bushings, new bushings come in just about every lift kit, and I'm bored waiting on parts.

spectre6000
01-24-2013, 02:45 PM
Between meetings and while waiting for my brake booster to arrive, I decided to go out and adjust the brakes to make up for the pulling whichever way it was (I feel pretty confident now it was to the right without really needing to even start it up)... Turns out, when the PO rebuilt the brakes, he put all of the rear wheel cylinders on the passenger side and the fronts on the drivers side... What's more, they're backwards on the passenger side to boot so that there are shocks and steering linkage in the way on at least half the cylinders... That's pretty dumb... I was already planning to take it to a brake shop to have the fluid flushed (I don't feel like killing my hands with my little vacuum pump on 8 cylinders... 4 is bad enough, never mind the amount of fluid that would be involved), so I guess I'll have them move the cylinders around while they're at it...

On the rear cylinders, the adjusting wheel rests on some rubber boots. Is there supposed to be any lube or anything in there? The wheels seem pretty fond of the boots and I had to take one wheel down just to see what the hell was going on and fix the clip that is supposed to hold the boot in place.

rover67
01-24-2013, 04:13 PM
make yourself a cap to pressurize the reservoir on the MC. Makes bleeding brakes alone a snap.

spectre6000
01-24-2013, 07:28 PM
ALRIGHT! Productive day! Negotiations with various entities at home and abroad, minor little tweaks to some business stuff, managed to get my wife's new Colorado plates on her car, and pick her up from work on time! Interspersed throughout all of this, I also managed to figure out a minor brake inconvenience, replace my brake booster (which solved my vacuum leak), adjust my valves (fair save a tight #5 intake), baseline my carb, and get the truck cleaned out and packed up.

If anyone can think of anything I've missed in all of this in terms of baseline maintenance and tuning let me know now!

Tomorrow, I'm going to Midas first thing to have them swap the brake cylinders around to their correct wheels and positions, flush the system (which should be rolled into that operation), and have them adjusted (why not while I'm there right?). I don't like bleeding brakes solo, and I especially don't like doing it when my cylinders are all messed up and there are eight of them. After that, I'm off to the inspection station, then the license plate office, then Jim's Yota Yard to hopefully swap my spare (I grabbed a spare wheel to match what was on the truck, but I was a skosh off in my recollection), then to Discount Tire, then (time permitting) hopefully to a windshield shop to have the windshield replaced! Busy day planned.

loudbay
01-24-2013, 08:27 PM
Dang! I'll take a nap for you.

spectre6000
01-24-2013, 08:34 PM
Hypomania is a wonderful thing!

PabloCruise
01-25-2013, 12:07 PM
Hope things go well for you today.

Not sure I would trust a Midas tech to swap all my brake cylinders around and adjust. Bleeding, maybe.

Hopefully they surprise me with their proficiency!

spectre6000
01-25-2013, 07:29 PM
I wouldn't trust a Midas tech either. That's why I explained what was needed very carefully, then stood there and watched (and occasionally pitched in) while the work was being done. I ended up changing all of the fluids (save the coolant, because apparently aircooled guys forget about those sorts of things) and swapping the cylinders around correctly. I chatted up the guy doing the work (their highest trained guy on staff) and the manager while it was all going on. Turns out, the manager is marrying the daughter of the owners of Alcan springs and is getting me the hookup. Also, they didn't charge me on the books. Just a cash deal between me and the tech that did it. After about 5 billable shop hours and a decent amount of various fluids, I walked away for $125!!! I would have had a good portion of that in oil, gear oil, brake fluid, washer fluid and coolant (if I had remembered the coolant)... Cool guys too. Had a good time, and I feel good about the work. Highly recommended.

Then I went and got the inspection. My battery died (and would not come back) at some point, and I got a new one. Turns out the one in there was date stamped 2001... Go figure. Luckily it happened two doors down from a FLAPS, and it was on the to do list. Then I got the emissions testing done. Passed with flying colors. I think even for a modern car... The fail threshold for HC was 1,000ppm, and I had only 14ppm. Pretty sweet.

Then I went and got my plates. No line, no problems. Left with plates in hand.

Then went up to Jims to swop out my mismatched spare. On the way, I noted that 65 mph was a pretty good cruise speed. Then I noticed that I wasn't even getting into the secondaries until about 67 mph. 70 mph is a pretty good cruising speed too. I still had really old tires on at that point, so I didn't want to test that too much.

Next I stopped to get some SS hardware to install the plates, then went and had the new tires installed.

Now I'm at home and have to leave for a meeting in Arvada in about 15 minutes... Busy day.

New on the list: fine tune the carb at lower altitude (weak in the slow jets, needs to have idle adjusted at a lower altitude), PS brake light is not working, there's a pronounced rattle in the transfer case linkage, there was a sympathetic vibration at idle that will be a bear to track down, and there's some clutch chatter from that leaky rear main seal. Also, the temp gauge seems to be a little numb and reads a little on the low side. Gas mileage so far (which includes lots of idling in the driveway and a few undocumented miles) is about 11... Not great. Shooting for 15.

loudbay
01-25-2013, 08:46 PM
That's my kind of hookup!!!!! Unfortunately I don't usually get my kind of hook up. I usually get the make up dumpster sex kind of hook up. Happy to get it, but sure it wasnt the best... Omg, did I just type that?!?

subzali
01-26-2013, 06:46 PM
Very nice work, all of it. Do I remember correctly that you had a wobbly distributor that was of concern at some point?

Don't forget to change the coolant ;)

Have you greased the driveshafts yet? What kind of tires did you get?

15 mpg should be attainable, that's where your carb tweaking should come in handy.

spectre6000
01-26-2013, 07:03 PM
Yeah. The distributor wobble was the bolt in the distributor clamp breaking in such a way that it would take nominal torque, but not hold things steady. I rectified it immediately with a new bolt.

Coolant change is en route. The radiator is new, so the coolant is most assuredly full and decent. The only downside is the corrosion potential from sitting which is worth a few gallons of coolant to be sure.

First though, it didn't want to start this morning. I think it had mostly to do with trying to tweak things too much for the emissions testing. I was in meetings all day today, and will likely also be in meetings all day tomorrow, so it may not be back up until Monday at the earliest.

I have not greased anything yet, I haven't located my grease gun (though I'm pretty sure it's in the state). That said, the PO seems to have thoroughly taken care of that sort of thing. I plan to address it for sure when I rebuild the drag arm linkage (which finally showed up today).

Tires are 31" Cooper Discoverer M+S studded. I'll get a set of more suitable wheeling tires come warmer climes. The tires that were on there along with a single 35X12.50 will be up for sale very soon for someone's trail rig. LOTS of tread left on them, just old.

Carb tweaking is the plan for Monday. I wasn't entirely pleased with the performance yesterday. It had a tendency to die at idle (though only occasionally) and not idle consistently (like it was maybe wandering a bit). It may be due to another smaller vacuum leak, the distributor is more worn than I thought, or just the fact that I need to get the carb fully dialed in (I baselined it up here instead of down where most of the driving will occur, so it is pretty thoroughly lean). I'll start with the carb (since it's something I can control with the parts on hand), then see if there's something else afoot.

spectre6000
01-27-2013, 10:58 AM
I went to pull the carb to replace the crappy Warner accel pump boot, plunger, and mess with the jetting and found this:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/spectre6000/photo-6_zps476f24eb.jpg

Air rail got hot enough to kill the paint... Not cool. Additionally, it only seems to be occurring at 4, 5, and 6. I could have done it with too lean a secondary slow and pushing it too hard, but it could be a number of other things. I'm really not all that familiar with this sort of emissions kit, so I'm curious if anyone has any ideas.

spectre6000
01-28-2013, 11:33 AM
I'm feeling like a bit of an idiot right now... I can't get it to start. I rejetted the carb a bit richer (plugs read lean), checked to make sure I was getting spark, and it won't start. I checked compression, and it's not looking too good. 1-6 read: 80, 85, 70, 65, 55, 70... I'm pretty high up here, so fairly low compression is expected, but that's both too low and too wide of a spread. Right before I bought it everything spec'd out just above 100 with one standout a bit higher (granted, this was at about 5k' compared to my 8k'). I might be in for some expense here, as I'm no where near equipped for what I think this means...

spectre6000
01-28-2013, 04:46 PM
Well... I did eventually get it to start, and once it did it ran like a top. Engine braking was pretty excellent as well (just as good as my 4Runner was), so I'm guessing something was wrong with my compression gauge (it's an old cheapie and not the most user friendly). I drove it around near the house a bit, and everything checked out perfectly. Then I got bold and went down into Arvada to try to dial it in a bit at an altitude more representative of my daily drive. I stopped at the AutoZone near my wife's office and got a light bulb I knew was out, then it refused to start. I just about killed the battery trying, then I bummed the AutoZone's portable jumper. It wasn't much use either. One of the employees brought his old Chevy minivan over and we jumped it from there. That really got the starter turning and eventually started it. I drove home just in time to beat what has become some pretty good snow.

So now I have to figure out why it doesn't like to start. The AutoZone guy suggested the starter might be on its way out and drawing too much current, though that doesn't seem like anything I've ever seen/heard before. Anyone have any ideas?

At one point while I was testing things out and waiting for the engine to cool down a bit, I rebuilt the trailing arm linkage. It tightened the steering up a smidge, but there's still some work to do there.

Point of note, progressive carbs are far more difficult to jet by ear. I'm going to need a wideband to feel comfortable with this.

MDH33
01-28-2013, 05:01 PM
When it's not starting, can you see any fuel in the site glass? Has me thinking you might be running it so lean it's possibly overheating and vapor locking. I recall you mentioning the temp gauge not reading accurately.

spectre6000
01-28-2013, 05:40 PM
It starts easier when it's just been run, and yes there is fuel in the sight glass. I read something about a fusible link having to do with the engine starting. Anyone know anything about that?

RicardoJM
01-28-2013, 05:56 PM
The fuseable link came after your rig. What is your start up procedure?

2 pumps of the accelerator, pull the choke and turn the key. Without choke the mixture won't be correct for a cold engine. What is your timing set at? Is the choke working? Sometimes the cable is not fully fastened and pulling the knob does not engage the choke. You might also want to confirm the accelerator pump is squirting fuel into the primary barrel. I know you just rebuilt the carb and it should be good - but the symptoms you describe would be consistent with either of these items.

RicardoJM
01-28-2013, 06:04 PM
Another item to check is your ground connections. Negative post to the frame or engine block - I've seen it both ways. There is also a ground strap from the frame to the starter area, this one is a bit hazy to my recollection - perhaps some can better describe it. For the ground connections you should clean them up to shiny metal and then reattach. Finally check the battery post connection to insure in is solid and not cracked.

spectre6000
01-28-2013, 06:36 PM
Startup procedure is still being sorted out. My current best guess is:

- clutch in
- choke out if the engine is cold or otherwise unresponsive
- turn key
- If it doesn't catch immediately I'll put the pedal down
- If it continues not catching I'll pump it to squirt the accelerator pump
- If it still won't start I'll let it rest a few seconds to let any heat work its way into things

Timing has the BB about half a BB's width from the bottom of the window (about 4 degrees advanced).

Accelerator pump is confirmed functional.

I'll check the grounds and such in the morning as suggested. A crappy ground at the block would cause a pretty weak spark consistent with what I'm seeing.

When I got back from picking my wife up from work (in her car), I tried to start the 40. It attempted to start a few times, but wouldn't catch. I did notice the starter would occasionally whir uncharacteristically as if the solenoid let go and the gear wasn't in contact with the flywheel... It certainly isn't a constant thing (I would have noticed it for sure) AutoZone guy may have been onto something... Maybe a gear reduction starter is in my future...

Idle shutoff solenoid? I might have heard it clicking after shutoff once this afternoon. I didn't think to investigate...

spectre6000
01-29-2013, 02:37 PM
I think I found my starting problem... I cleaned up all of the grounds (none of which were in bad shape, but it never hurts). I checked the idle shutoff solenoid (reached in through the vent window and listened for the click while I turned the key between ACC and ON). And I removed the ballast resistor (just for grins). Nada. Finally I got the bright idea to hook up my timing light and see what's going on. At BEST I'm getting 30 RPM from the starter, about 1/3 of the time saw 10 RPM, and when the solenoid let go it was a cool 0. It turns out that what I was mistaking for the engine occasionally trying to catch was the solenoid cutting out and the only thing that was turning was the starter itself! Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but most starters turn at or near 200 RPM. I've not heard too many 40s trying to start (read: only mine), but it seems 30 isn't enough...

RicardoJM
01-29-2013, 02:55 PM
I'm not sure of the rpm question, but I definately know that your Idle Cutoff Solenoid (ICS) needs to have constant power when you are starting (and running) the engine. As soon as the key turns to the on position it (ICS) should have power and as soon as you turn the key to the off position it (ICS) should not have power. Nice debugging work, now get that fixed and weld in an O2 bung so you can borrow my Zeitronix unit.:D

spectre6000
01-29-2013, 03:04 PM
I'm not sure of the rpm question, but I definately know that your Idle Cutoff Solenoid (ICS) needs to have constant power when you are starting (and running) the engine. As soon as the key turns to the on position it (ICS) should have power and as soon as you turn the key to the off position it (ICS) should not have power. Nice debugging work, now get that fixed and weld in an O2 bung so you can borrow my Zeitronix unit.:D

Yes! I was contemplating searching out what the run, but I'd much rather borrow one for the time being.

I'm about to go pull the belts off and run down to O'Reilly for a starter. Wish me luck, and maybe I'll be able to take you up on the wideband offer soon.