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Telly
12-03-2012, 04:04 PM
I've had my 78 FJ40 for a few months and I'm trying to diagnose a strange thumping/knocking sound coming from the transfer case or clutch area. It occurs when I'm turning with the clutch depressed. Prime example is when I'm backing out of the garage in a turn and coasting to a stop. Doesn't matter if I'm going forward or reverse. It's not a metal on metal sound...more like a sound of something loose...like "thonk, thonk, thonk" until I straight out and engage the tranny. I've checked all motor mounts, exhaust system and checked for any loose parts but found nothing. It does have a rear Aussie locker but the sound not coming from the rear axle but the locker may be culprit? It's not the front axle because the sound still exists after installing new bearings and locking hubs (that is where I though it potentially coming from prior to doing the rebuild). Thoughts? Thanks. Doug

Telly
12-03-2012, 04:11 PM
Another potentially related deal is when I'm shifting a hard acceleration (like an on ramp) the rear of the truck shifts slightly, which would be flat scary on a icy road. I'm thinking Aussie Locker again?

rover67
12-03-2012, 04:33 PM
Another potentially related deal is when I'm shifting a hard acceleration (like an on ramp) the rear of the truck shifts slightly, which would be flat scary on a icy road. I'm thinking Aussie Locker again?

that's the aussie locker.

it gives you one wheel drive till the other tire "catches up" so it'll tend to pull under acceleration.

Jacket
12-03-2012, 04:41 PM
Is the ebrake on a '78 behind the transfer case? Could your ebrake be grabbing the drum and causing a "clunk?"

corsair23
12-03-2012, 04:46 PM
I think the fact that this happens only when you are in a turn is the best evidence of what the culprit is...

Telly
12-03-2012, 05:20 PM
I know the locker comes in handy in the rocks but I hate it driving around town. I've experienced the loud BANG a few times and it scares the $hit out of me.
That clunking can't be good on the t-case either. Doug

Air Randy
12-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Another potentially related deal is when I'm shifting a hard acceleration (like an on ramp) the rear of the truck shifts slightly, which would be flat scary on a icy road. I'm thinking Aussie Locker again?

Thats called "torque steer" and the only way to stop it is to ditch the aussie locker.

Does it make the noise when you are turning if the clutch isnt depressed? Try backing up & turning like you do but put it in neutral, let the clutch out and see if the noise is still there while coasting.

As previously stated, its most likely the aussie locker as they are really noisy when turning tightly on pavement. They will thump and click pretty good, every now and then it will let out a loud BANG! and you'll think you broke an axle.

Telly
12-03-2012, 05:31 PM
Thats called "torque steer" and the only way to stop it is to ditch the aussie locker.

Does it make the noise when you are turning if the clutch isnt depressed? Try backing up & turning like you do but put it in neutral, let the clutch out and see if the noise is still there while coasting.

As previously stated, its most likely the aussie locker as they are really noisy when turning tightly on pavement. They will thump and click pretty good, every now and then it will let out a loud BANG! and you'll think you broke an axle.

I did notice the clunking when decellerating on a tight, down hill off-ramp without the clutch depressed. The PO gave me the original rear diff parts so the aussie locker will be removed. I was planning to drive the rig some in the snow but I'd be in the ditch after the first "torque steer" hits me. Wish I had the funds for front/rear ARB air lockers :mad:

Telly
12-03-2012, 05:34 PM
BTW Air Randy, I looked at a 1970 Boss 351 when I was 13 year old. Ended up buying a 68 Camaro RS, that now sports a 427 and a TKO 5-speed. Yeah...it's a money pit.

Air Randy
12-03-2012, 07:41 PM
BTW Air Randy, I looked at a 1970 Boss 351 when I was 13 year old. Ended up buying a 68 Camaro RS, that now sports a 427 and a TKO 5-speed. Yeah...it's a money pit.

Yeah, but they are soooo much fun!

Rzeppa
12-04-2012, 12:10 AM
It is the locker. Nothing scary and NO REASON to ditch it. That locker is that best bang for your wheeling buck you ever had, and you will get used to it soon. I have Lock Rights in 3 of my 4 cruisers and they are great. A little clicking is a small price to pay for the wonderfulness of an auto-locked rear. Of course you can spend a grand on an air locker and fragile compressed air system if you want to go to an free rear on the road...

RicardoJM
12-04-2012, 07:16 AM
I did notice the clunking when decellerating on a tight, down hill off-ramp without the clutch depressed. The PO gave me the original rear diff parts so the aussie locker will be removed. I was planning to drive the rig some in the snow but I'd be in the ditch after the first "torque steer" hits me. Wish I had the funds for front/rear ARB air lockers :mad:

I really don't mess the bump steer since swapping my lock-rite for an ARB earlier this year. The lock-rite was what the budget would allow at the time, it came to me used and is still going strong in one of Rzeppa's rigs. In the years I ran it, I got used to the noises and bump steer.

nakman
12-04-2012, 09:27 AM
This discussion reminds me of the decision I made to ditch the Aussie that came with Ken's 40- which is now happily in service in Papa Root's rig.. I too didn't like the torque steer, or the loud clunks at the supermarket, and I had another truck with lockers, etc.

my thought was then, and still is today, that particularly when you're just beginning wheeling a stockish/mildly built 40 should be more about line selection, momentum, some left foot, and knowing the vehicle. For that one obstacle where you just can't get it, that's why you have a winch, or a strap and a guy in front of you. And if you don't have a winch or a guy then you don't do those trails alone. Only after you've mastered the vehicle, do you then add lockers & push it further. 40's aren't supposed to be point & shoot like some of the newer wagons right out of the gate. Just my opinion, obviously. :)

What clinched that was leading Kane Creek one year, and seeing this guy Dave (in2cruisers, iirc) do the whole thing completely open. He had a 2" lift and 33 x 9.50 tires. The ditch, the shelf road, the waterfall at the end.. he cleaned it all, even after multiple bigger, better built, locked up trucks struggled and even dug it up more. It's cool to see someone who actually knows how to drive wheel for a change, and that day I wanted to be like that guy.

Telly
12-04-2012, 12:22 PM
I'm just being overly sensitive about how my new 40 behaves. My last rig was a boosted, locked 80 that rode like a caddy. I have done 90% of the trails in Moab, including Pritchett. It was my wifes DD and she wanted to downsize. She got a Honda and I got a 40 (win/win situation). I don't mind the clicks or even the occational bang but the torque steer has me concerned in the slick stuff. My thought is to swap out the locker just for the winter and see how much different it drives. I think my hard core wheeling days "may" be over but if I get back into it, I'll just reinstall the locker. All that being said, driving the 40 puts a smile on my face everytime. Doug

nakman
12-04-2012, 12:25 PM
Well said! And having BTDT with a big 80 as well I know where you're coming from. If you've already got the stock diff parts and the old shims for the sides then go for it, and you may be surprised next year back on the trails just how much you can still do open. :cheers:

subzali
12-04-2012, 12:56 PM
I haven't had issues driving in the snow with my Lockright in the rear of my FJ40 with Goodyear MT/Rs. I think a lot of it has to do with the tires though. Definitely has better behavior with an open diff though.

Rzeppa
12-04-2012, 03:53 PM
No doubt, the torque steer (separate issue than "bump steer", which is from insufficient droop in the pitman arm) is something to get used to. And it is more pronounced in a shorty 40, but you just learn to modulate your right foot a little more carefully when turning. I have also had Lock Rights in a big pickup (HZJ75) and the one Ricardo is talking about is in my FJ60. The longer wheel base on those makes it almost imperceptible compared to a 40.

And I agree (somewhat) with Tim's suggestion to learn to drive open, as I did for many years before I put a lockers in my 40s. One of the main things that having that rear locker has done is be able to drive slower, at lower RPMs, which has got to help reduce the stress on everything. When you're open, momentum is a part of your tool kit for getting over and up stuff, far more than locked.

Don't worry about snow and ice. You will actually have more traction and control with your locked rear than you do open. There are a lot of instances where I don't even need 4x4.

Speaking of torque steer, I broke the long side rear axle in my HZJ75 on Poison Spider on a winter pre-run one year. Since it had a full floater and a Lock Right, I was able to finish the trail in 3 wheel drive and drive home on the highway in one wheel drive. Now THAT was torque steer! :hill:

kurtnkegger
12-04-2012, 05:49 PM
If it's a pretty loud knock, instead of a clicking, it could be the knock of the ring gear and the pinion backlash as your locker engages, and frees. Mine will make horrible noises with tight turns and the clutch depressed, opposed to the clicking from the locker as I'm putting a little power to the drive train. I never had the noise till after I installed my Aussie Locker...I assume the noise is normal...

Rzeppa
12-04-2012, 06:26 PM
If it's a pretty loud knock, instead of a clicking, it could be the knock of the ring gear and the pinion backlash as your locker engages, and frees. Mine will make horrible noises with tight turns and the clutch depressed, opposed to the clicking from the locker as I'm putting a little power to the drive train. I never had the noise till after I installed my Aussie Locker...I assume the noise is normal...

It is EXTREMELY important to have proper spacing when either an Aussie or Lock Right is installed. Spacing is established with the thrust washers that go between the side gears and carrier. Most commonly, the thrust washers have worn and there is too much spacing between the locker drivers, resulting in the loud clunks.

Whenever installing an Aussie or Lock Right, you need to get a full set of different sized thrust washers to have on hand. You have to do the full install, and then measure the spacing. If it is out of range, you have to take it apart and replace the thrust washers with those of proper thickness to achieve the necessary spacing.

I wrote an article that was published in Toyota Trails on all this. I can't remember the precise date but I remember it had a pig on the cover. In the article I gave the spacing range and Toyota part numbers for the different thickness thrust washers.

kurtnkegger
12-05-2012, 02:57 PM
Thanks Jeff. I measured, double checked, and rechecked to make sure the spacing from the thrust washers was within the specs on the install sheet. I put it in about two years ago, and re-used the thrust washers that were in there already because the spacing worked. Do you suggest I open her back up and take another look? I only get noise at tight turns on pavement with the clutch depressed.

DaveInDenver
12-05-2012, 03:40 PM
I have an Aussie and get some thumping as well. I've noticed that an Aussie will highlight any driveline noise you have, in my case it seems to be that my poly spring bushings need replacement and/or lube. When I spray them with silicone or white lithium the noise stops for a while, so seems the axle wants to wind up a little on acceleration and the bushings are creaking.

Another thing to watch is that your tires don't have slightly different diameters or inflation, this exacerbates the thumping, clicking, normalizing bangs and what not. When I take time to match the rear tires to a gnat's rear I notice that I extremely rarely will get that pit-of-your-stomach bang.

I personally take round-abouts and sharp turns with the clutch disengaged, it's a very refined skill. Accelerate a bit more than normal heading into and coast through.

Rzeppa
12-05-2012, 06:21 PM
Thanks Jeff. I measured, double checked, and rechecked to make sure the spacing from the thrust washers was within the specs on the install sheet. I put it in about two years ago, and re-used the thrust washers that were in there already because the spacing worked. Do you suggest I open her back up and take another look? I only get noise at tight turns on pavement with the clutch depressed.

No, if you were withing spec, chances are you are good to go. And what I was referring to in my above post about how you finesse the throttle applies to what you wrote about tight turns with the clutch in. You will discover that if you are in a parking lot, you will need to apply just a slight amount of throttle when making those tight turns, believe it or not. That quiets things right down!

Rzeppa
12-05-2012, 06:23 PM
I agree with what Dave said about tire diameter and inflation. I do a 5 tire rotation so if I get a flat (it has happened on 2 trail runs in the last 15 years) all my tires have the same wear. And you want to keep those rears inflated to withing 1/2PSI of each other.

Instead of putting in the clutch on roundabouts, I get better results from slight throttle, just above idle.

DaveInDenver
12-05-2012, 07:07 PM
I agree with what Dave said about tire diameter and inflation. I do a 5 tire rotation so if I get a flat (it has happened on 2 trail runs in the last 15 years) all my tires have the same wear. And you want to keep those rears inflated to withing 1/2PSI of each other.

Instead of putting in the clutch on roundabouts, I get better results from slight throttle, just above idle.
That works too, just enough throttle to keep the locker locked with the mild risk of some tire scrub. You do get some confused looks when the mighty 22R-E tries to smoke 'em accelerating through a turn, though!

Telly
12-05-2012, 08:58 PM
Alright folks, I went on a beer run tonight with the 40 (Magic Hat Brewing Company...excellent but pricey) and tried to key in on my thumping noise during the drive. It's not locker related IMHO. It's related to the clutch. The noise only occurs when I depress the clutch. I can hear barely hear it with normal shifting but it's much worse on coasting turns. Something ain't right. I live close to SteveH...Hey Steve, I need some help diagnosing this noise!

SteveH
12-06-2012, 08:05 AM
Stop by my place (or my office) and we'll give it a listen. I even drove my '40 today. Should be home some this weekend. PM me.

Telly
12-06-2012, 10:05 AM
Stop by my place (or my office) and we'll give it a listen. I even drove my '40 today. Should be home some this weekend. PM me.

Nice....

Telly
12-08-2012, 01:53 PM
SteveH did a once over on the 40 this morning. We compared how much slop my rear driveshaft had compared to his 40. Mine turned about 7/8" before it engaged and his almost immediately engaged. We are thinking the lash may be off in the R&P which is causing quite a bit of slop in the drive train. I'm going to pull the diff cover and check it out. I'm a newb when it comes to lash adjustment...any advice would be appreciated.
Also, Steve helped me clean, lube and tighten my center pivet arm, which greatly reduced my steering slop. Thanks Steve!!

nakman
12-08-2012, 08:13 PM
Cool! any progress is good progress.

But man if I had the diff cover off, and I already had all the shims for the side gears, I'd be real tempted to just.. well... Would allow you to say definitively that yup, it's not the Aussie... ;)

subzali
12-08-2012, 08:37 PM
Sounds like he may have to do a ring and pinion backlash adjustment. Best way to check would be to get some gear marking compound and check it out. Should be able to check on the vehicle I would think.

By the way the front and rear diffs are 100% interchangeable - too bad you just buttoned your front end back up :( Could have swapped the two to have the one with less wear in the rear.

Rzeppa
12-09-2012, 02:09 PM
I doubt this would be the same thing, but I had a nice vibration in the rear of my 60 at highway speed. It was the same kind you can feel when the u-joint is worn out, except the PO said that he had that u-joint replaced. When I installed the Lock Right, I also replaced the hardware store bolts that had been used with genuine OEM bolts and nuts. When I dropped the drive shaft I noticed that the pinion nut had never been staked. Curious, I put my fingers on it and discovered that it was only finger tight!!!! :eek: I torqued it down proper and staked it, and my vibration went away. In hindsight, that was a broken pinion waiting to happen!

subzali
12-10-2012, 08:03 AM
Jeff, I think an FJ60 is supposed to have a crush sleeve as opposed to a staked nut to keep it on and to set the preload. At least from the factory.

nakman
12-10-2012, 08:50 AM
Jeff, I think an FJ60 is supposed to have a crush sleeve as opposed to a staked nut to keep it on and to set the preload. At least from the factory.

My 62 had a stake nut, I thought they all had stake nuts. :confused:

SteveH
12-10-2012, 09:26 AM
I think I'd check the pinion nut even before pulling the diff cover (less messy, and you need to check the nut anyway).

subzali
12-10-2012, 09:32 AM
My 62 had a stake nut, I thought they all had stake nuts. :confused:

Well I'm no expert on 60s and 62s, but SOR indicates that after 11/84 crush sleeves were used.

See these threads here:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/645317-rear-pinion-seal-replacement.html

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/596098-pinion-seal-rear-diff-replacement.html

Jeff's is a 1987 so I figured it'd be better to let him know. Better safe than sorry. Don't know what was up with your FJ62.

[/hijack]

60wag
12-10-2012, 09:32 AM
They all have the slot in the shaft to stake the nut. That keeps the nut from moving, if you bother to stake it. The crush sleeve is a lower cost alternative to a spacer and shims to set the bearing preload. I think the early 60's used shims and the late 60s or 62s went to a crush sleeve.

nakman
12-10-2012, 10:13 AM
Two different things though, right? Some have the crush sleeve, others have the shims, but I say all of them should get their nuts staked. Don't quote me on that... ;)

And all I did on the 62 was replace a pinion seal. Was the first time I ever used a seal puller, in fact I still remember Commander Zepp drawing me a picture of what it looks like, so I could pick one up prior to the wheel bearing packing party where I was planning on doing this. I still have that seal puller, it has removed countless dust seals from front hub assemblies, and has doubled as a spatula on more than one occasion. great tool. ok [/hijack], for real this time! :)

subzali
12-10-2012, 10:16 AM
You're right Tim, I would think that all would need the nuts staked. The problem is that on the ones with the crush sleeve, you can overtighten the nut, which crushes the sleeve more, which increases the preload, which can grenade the diff.

Earlier cruisers had the shim and spacer, so you could tighten that thing down as much as you wanted and not change the preload. And then stake the nut.

rover67
12-10-2012, 10:23 AM
They all have stake nuts. even the 60's and 62's.

MountainGoat
12-10-2012, 10:55 AM
You're right Tim, I would think that all would need the nuts staked. The problem is that on the ones with the crush sleeve, you can overtighten the nut, which crushes the sleeve more, which increases the preload, which can grenade the diff.

Ruh roh Zepp: :eek:

60wag
12-10-2012, 11:51 AM
I haven't crushed a sleeve on a 60 but I have on my 80 rear diff. It took mega ft-lbs to crush it which involved a LONG cheater bar. As long as you're not using a healthy impact wrench to tighten the nut, the difference between tight and sleeve crushing tight should be obvious.

rover67
12-10-2012, 12:08 PM
I haven't crushed a sleeve on a 60 but I have on my 80 rear diff. It took mega ft-lbs to crush it which involved a LONG cheater bar. As long as you're not using a healthy impact wrench to tighten the nut, the difference between tight and sleeve crushing tight should be obvious.

When I did the diffs in my 60 it took a HUGE amount of force (3' cheater bar with two people pushing) to get it to start to tighten also. When I tightened my 60's pinion nut after it had come loose I just stuck a 1/2" breaker bar on the nut and tightened it hard (feet pushing on bar, holding onto tire) and it seemed to work ok. When I took it apart the pinion bearings actually looked OK. My diff had a ton of backlash so I actually was able to get a feel for how tight the bearing was by just rotating it back and forth where it had slop.

Rzeppa
12-10-2012, 05:55 PM
Jeff, I think an FJ60 is supposed to have a crush sleeve as opposed to a staked nut to keep it on and to set the preload. At least from the factory.

No, the crush sleeve is to set the preload as opposed to shims. The nut is either cotter-pinned (early, like my '71) or staked (later). The stacking has nothing to do with pinion preload, it is to keep the nut from backing off. ;)

Rzeppa
12-10-2012, 05:58 PM
Ruh roh Zepp: :eek:

No, see above (or below, where ever it is). The torque for the crush sleeve is the same as when you are using shims. The staking just keeps the nut from loosening like mine did.

What happens is, the pinion bearings wear some, and thus you lose some of your preload. If the nut is staked, that's all that happens. But if you don't stake the nut like whoever forgot to do on mine, once you lose the preload even a little, that's all that was keeping the nut on there, and now it can back out like mine did.

Rzeppa
12-10-2012, 06:00 PM
able to get a feel for how tight the bearing was by just rotating it back and forth where it had slop.

Inch-pound torque wrench works wonders for making sure the preload is in range...;)

rover67
12-10-2012, 06:24 PM
Inch-pound torque wrench works wonders for making sure the preload is in range...;)

True, probably the preferred method....

You just have to make sure you aren't rotating the carrier and letting that drag add to what you are feeling on the pinion. If the diff has a lot of play you can kinda get away with feeling it.

Rzeppa
12-13-2012, 05:26 PM
True, probably the preferred method....

You just have to make sure you aren't rotating the carrier and letting that drag add to what you are feeling on the pinion. If the diff has a lot of play you can kinda get away with feeling it.

Yes, obviously you are (normally) doing this with the carrier on the bench, but a couple degrees of lash will give a reading within the same range. Like you said ;)

subzali
01-03-2013, 08:49 AM
I think I replicated this sound last night. See this video here:
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If I leave it in gear (clutch depressed) it makes the noise on tight turns (especially if I power into the corner).

If I coast into a sharp corner, like the first one in the video, even if I leave it in gear (clutch depressed) it may not make the noise. The key to making the noise is powering into the corner and getting the drivetrain a little bound up.

If I shift into neutral AND depress the clutch it doesn't make the noise.

Doesn't really make sense in my head, but that's the way it is. I've trained myself to shift into neutral when making tight turns. I had to re-learn how to make the noise come back.

All my measurements came out within spec when I installed the Lockright. Not sure about my R&P backlash though.

Air Randy
01-03-2013, 05:23 PM
This is absolutely, positively the sounds a lunchbox locker makes, and under the various conditions you describe.

The locker is basically two round metal pucks with large blocky teeth on them. Each of them is splined and fits over the end of one of your axles. There are springs in the unit that push these two pucks towards each other so the teeth mesh together thus locking the rear axles together.

The unit is designed so that whenever there is any torque from the drive train (i.e. in gear and moving forwards) applied it adds additional compression force in addition to the springs. Thats why if you have the drivetrain under load, even slightly, and you turn sharply on pavement, you may get a loud Bang! as the teeth of the locker disengage. It must either disengage, break an axle, or you would hear the outside tire screeching as it gets drug around the outside of the turn.

When there is no load on the drive train and you turn tightly on pavement, you will either here the teeth of the locker clicking as it disengages and ratchets, or it may be soft enough you dont even hear it. That is all pefectly normal for that type of locker.

The real benefit of this type of locker is they are inexpensive, easy to install and relatively reliable as long as you can put up with the torque steer and funky noises. They can also be a little scary driving on packed snow or ice when turning because you never know if/when they will disengage and give the back end a little twist. If you ever have to side hill off camber on a snowy icey area, you will wish you had a locker you could shut off.

The only way to get rid of the noises you are experiencing is to put in a air or electric operated locker. You can also install a locker like a Detroit Locker and it wont make the noises, but you cant shut it off either. Its almost as costly to put in a Detroit as to put in an ARB anyways.

subzali
01-04-2013, 07:22 AM
Randy, there are two different "clunks" the locker is making/causing.

The one you are speaking of is quiet enough that you can't really hear it in my video (it did make that ratcheting sound on my first turn - you might be able to hear it if you turn the volume way up). This clicking is normal and pleasant to hear, IMO.

The second clunk is a lot louder, more violent, and shakes through the drivetrain. That's the one I mainly was trying to capture on the video. This is the one that's no fun to have happen, and is the reason why I coast in neutral a lot whenever anticipating making tight turns.

SteveH
01-04-2013, 09:02 AM
I listened to the noise in Doug's truck, and your video (thanks - very cool!) replicated it pretty well. It was that clatter-clatter-clatter you hear when you put in the clutch under certain turning conditions. To me, it didn't sound damaging, beyond normal 'cruiser sounds.

Air Randy
01-04-2013, 09:13 AM
Randy, there are two different "clunks" the locker is making/causing.

The one you are speaking of is quiet enough that you can't really hear it in my video (it did make that ratcheting sound on my first turn - you might be able to hear it if you turn the volume way up). This clicking is normal and pleasant to hear, IMO.

The second clunk is a lot louder, more violent, and shakes through the drivetrain. That's the one I mainly was trying to capture on the video. This is the one that's no fun to have happen, and is the reason why I coast in neutral a lot whenever anticipating making tight turns.

Understood, I still believe that is the locker winding up and then letting loose. You can even hear the tires screeching before it starts clunking and banging. These things are horrible for exactly these reasons.

I installed a lunchbox locker in the rear of the Blue Mule. First time I drove it on the street, I made a left hand turn into a gas station and had to gas it through the intersection. About halfway through the turn it went BANG! and the whole drive train jerked. I was absolutely sure that I had broken a rear axle. I pulled over and actually jacked the rear end up to determine which axle had broken. Everything was fine, it was just the locker loading up and letting loose. It only did that occassionally but from that time forward I always tried to baby it through turns without giving it gas or by coasting just to avoid a repeat. The next best upgrade I did was replace it with an ARB.

PabloCruise
01-04-2013, 09:27 AM
This is absolutely, positively the sounds a lunchbox locker makes, and under the various conditions you describe.

The locker is basically two round metal pucks with large blocky teeth on them. Each of them is splined and fits over the end of one of your axles. There are springs in the unit that push these two pucks towards each other so the teeth mesh together thus locking the rear axles together.

The unit is designed so that whenever there is any torque from the drive train (i.e. in gear and moving forwards) applied it adds additional compression force in addition to the springs. Thats why if you have the drivetrain under load, even slightly, and you turn sharply on pavement, you may get a loud Bang! as the teeth of the locker disengage. It must either disengage, break an axle, or you would hear the outside tire screeching as it gets drug around the outside of the turn.

When there is no load on the drive train and you turn tightly on pavement, you will either here the teeth of the locker clicking as it disengages and ratchets, or it may be soft enough you dont even hear it. That is all pefectly normal for that type of locker.

The real benefit of this type of locker is they are inexpensive, easy to install and relatively reliable as long as you can put up with the torque steer and funky noises. They can also be a little scary driving on packed snow or ice when turning because you never know if/when they will disengage and give the back end a little twist. If you ever have to side hill off camber on a snowy icey area, you will wish you had a locker you could shut off.

The only way to get rid of the noises you are experiencing is to put in a air or electric operated locker. You can also install a locker like a Detroit Locker and it wont make the noises, but you cant shut it off either. Its almost as costly to put in a Detroit as to put in an ARB anyways.

This is a great description of how my Aussie locker behaves in the back of my 40.
Funny story - after wheeling the 40 for a day, I went to sleep and had a dream (I seldom remember what I dream about) that I was driving my little Honda Civic and I went into a turn and heard the front diff of the Civic clicking like a auto-locker/Aussie! I was totally confused in my dream, trying to figure out how the hell someone fit an auto-locker in the mighty Civic! Too funny. So that is one dream I remember.

subzali
01-04-2013, 09:40 AM
Understood, I still believe that is the locker winding up and then letting loose. You can even hear the tires screeching before it starts clunking and banging. These things are horrible for exactly these reasons.

I installed a lunchbox locker in the rear of the Blue Mule. First time I drove it on the street, I made a left hand turn into a gas station and had to gas it through the intersection. About halfway through the turn it went BANG! and the whole drive train jerked. I was absolutely sure that I had broken a rear axle. I pulled over and actually jacked the rear end up to determine which axle had broken. Everything was fine, it was just the locker loading up and letting loose. It only did that occassionally but from that time forward I always tried to baby it through turns without giving it gas or by coasting just to avoid a repeat. The next best upgrade I did was replace it with an ARB.

Yep, and that is a third noise that the Lockright can make. ;)

Your description of the sidehill behavior of the locker was exactly my sentiment last spring on Rollins Pass Road. Wish I had a selectable in the rear, or one in the front as well as the rear. Some day :thumb:

Rzeppa
01-04-2013, 07:35 PM
The second clunk is a lot louder, more violent, and shakes through the drivetrain. That's the one I mainly was trying to capture on the video. This is the one that's no fun to have happen, and is the reason why I coast in neutral a lot whenever anticipating making tight turns.

That is not proper operation of a lunchbox locker. Proper operation is a nice "click click click". Lots of people have come to assume that the loud bang when it locks and then unloads is "normal". It is not.

Since I wrote that article for Toyota Trails about 10-11 years ago about Lock Rights in Land Cruisers, I have learned more. Among them, that there is a bit more to it than simply having clearance between the couplers that is within specification. Two other critical parameters for proper operation are having the entire 3rd set up properly (pinion depth, preload, carrier bearing position and preload) and secondly using 140 wt as recommended by the manufacturer.

ARB and Detroit installs are ALWAYS accompanied by a WHOLE NEW 3rd MEMBER SETUP, and therefore any issues with the existing setup are completely obviated. I discovered this around 2004 when I rebuilt my rear 3rd in my '71 '40. The before and after with the Lock Right was like night and day. No more booms and bangs that I had thought just went with the territory. I also started paying attention to the fact the the instructions recommend 140 wt, which does seem to help.

If you have a lunchbox locker that booms and bangs, obviously the first thing to check is the clearance between the couplers, which is set by the thickness of the thrust washers. If it is within spec, then check all the important measurements of the pinion and carrier. And of course, use 140 wt.

Air Randy
01-05-2013, 02:01 PM
That is not proper operation of a lunchbox locker. Proper operation is a nice "click click click". Lots of people have come to assume that the loud bang when it locks and then unloads is "normal". It is not.

Since I wrote that article for Toyota Trails about 10-11 years ago about Lock Rights in Land Cruisers, I have learned more. Among them, that there is a bit more to it than simply having clearance between the couplers that is within specification. Two other critical parameters for proper operation are having the entire 3rd set up properly (pinion depth, preload, carrier bearing position and preload) and secondly using 140 wt as recommended by the manufacturer.

ARB and Detroit installs are ALWAYS accompanied by a WHOLE NEW 3rd MEMBER SETUP, and therefore any issues with the existing setup are completely obviated. I discovered this around 2004 when I rebuilt my rear 3rd in my '71 '40. The before and after with the Lock Right was like night and day. No more booms and bangs that I had thought just went with the territory. I also started paying attention to the fact the the instructions recommend 140 wt, which does seem to help.

If you have a lunchbox locker that booms and bangs, obviously the first thing to check is the clearance between the couplers, which is set by the thickness of the thrust washers. If it is within spec, then check all the important measurements of the pinion and carrier. And of course, use 140 wt.

Well, I set up a lot of rear ends and I know mine was done correctly and the locker still behaved exactly as I described it above. Now, it was a used unit so were the cogs worn causing it to let loose occassionally? Maybe, but I have also talked to lots of other folks who have experienced the same behavior.

Telly
01-05-2013, 04:56 PM
Yes sir Matt, that's the noise and thanks for posting the vid! Mine seems be be a bit louder than yours. Sometime in the next 6 months, I plan to verify diff clearances and fill with 140wt. Maybe that will quiet it down some.
Took me awhile to respond...just got back from a week at Disney World. Neat park but I'm done waiting in lines for awhile. Doug

Telly
01-05-2013, 05:06 PM
One more thing...I'm learning to like the locker. Drove around in the snow and it did awesome in 2wd. Time to start sourcing parts for a mini truck power steering! POW!

Rzeppa
01-07-2013, 06:20 PM
Well, I set up a lot of rear ends and I know mine was done correctly and the locker still behaved exactly as I described it above. Now, it was a used unit so were the cogs worn causing it to let loose occassionally? Maybe, but I have also talked to lots of other folks who have experienced the same behavior.

My experience is an A-B comparison on the exact same rig, exact same locker. Rebuild the diff, Oh what a feeling!

:rolleyes:

My HZJ75 pickup was quite and smooth, my current FJ60 wagon is quite and smooth.