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DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 08:16 AM
If you don't know first gen Taco frames were made by Dana in CA and they screwed up the rust coatings (as in often didn't even do it). Mainly 1995 to 2000 but I guess all 99-04 can get it. I did hit the frame on our truck before buying and seemed solid, but crawling around cleaning and greasing I found some rust that I didn't see initially, above the shock mount.

So took our new-old truck into Petersen Toyota in Ft Collins and had them do the frame inspection for rust, they said it was fine. But I have my doubts that they are fully informed because I understood that Toyota was supposed to do an anti-rust coating on frames that were not rotten. The service writer didn't seem to know this and I'm not even sure he knew Tacomas had a frame rust issue in the first place.

Anyone got more info on this? I'm concerned now, more than initially even though I thought I was fully informed when I bought the truck and did a hasty impact test. Anyone had a Tacoma inspected? Which dealer did you go to?

subzali
03-29-2013, 08:20 AM
I took my Tundra to Go Toyota on Arapahoe after getting a notice in the mail, they said mine was fine too even though it's not perfect either. They didn't put any kind of coating on it as far as I can tell.

That's all I'm going to tell you unless you let the cat of the bag with pictures :D

DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 09:08 AM
Pic of the truck. Totally plain Jane. Even still wears the OE shocks.

32472

The small spot on the side of the frame I knew about. Figured a 11 year old truck was bound to have little issues like that. I was going to wire brush all the scale, spot treat things like this with rust converter and paint the whole frame. Did that to my '91 when I got it and the frame looks good on it. I also spray inside the vents with WD40 all the time, just like using Frame Saver on a steel bicycle.

32475

The one I didn't notice when I looked at it (but I was more concerned with the frame at the forward spring hangers, where mini trucks rot anyway). It was clean when I looked at it but there was more road spray under there, so I must have cleaned off some dirt at the car wash. Plus the flash highlights the rust color, it's less obvious to the eye.

32473 32474

In a way that rear stuff doesn't bother me as much. Toyota cheapened Tacoma frame compared to Hilux by not boxing in the rear section. But that works in my favor because I can scrape and paint the outside and inside of the frame there. It's fully boxed forward of the axle and thus harder to work inside.

subzali
03-29-2013, 09:25 AM
yeah looks like you need to do something about that. I should probably have a good crawl session under my truck and do the same in a few spots. What's that rust on the box at the cross beam?

Nice Taco :thumb: Specs? ;)

DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 09:35 AM
2001 XtraCab SR5 TRD, V6, 5 speed, power windows, power locks, 106,500 miles. It's not pristine, a few spots of surface rust like that, but is one of the best condition ones we found that weren't $16,000. It all seems manageable. There are Tacos in really, really bad shape out there. First owner was in Sandy, UT, then to Colorado Springs and now me. We'll see about the frame stuff, I have a feeling that it won't last as long as Imelda has. She's getting really tired but basically still very solid.

The only modification was the K&N intake that I took off for a stock air cleaner. Timing was done at 106,000, which unfortunately was when it got converted to green antifreeze. I have two gallons of Toyota Red, distilled water and a flush kit ready to go. I also got a factory cruise control kit to fit in it, that was the only option not installed.

subzali
03-29-2013, 09:41 AM
Didn't know you could buy a kit for factory cruise control. My dad's '97 Taco doesn't have cruise, which would have come in handy on several occasions. Where would I go to look for that?

Nice '01, I always liked the style of that front end.

nakman
03-29-2013, 09:46 AM
I thought more folks were concerned with bending the frames, rather than mere rust. That's why so many make those frame box kits.. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/1998-2004-Tacoma-Extra-CAB-Frame-Boxing-Plates_p_1820.html

Knowing you Dave I bet you'd be happiest just pulling the bed off for a couple weeks, so you can get a 360 view of the frame. You're welcome to borrow my bug zapper for a while if you want to get crazy and box it in.. :weld:

AxleIke
03-29-2013, 09:59 AM
Well, Tim beat me to it Dave, but I was going to offer to weld some plate to your frame to strengthen those areas. The last picture is what had me thinking that looks a bit iffy.

nakman
03-29-2013, 10:04 AM
Hey is your rear bumper missing? I've got a stock one I'd love to get rid of.. :)

edit: got some chrome nerf bars, too! :hill:

DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 10:07 AM
Couldn't tell you how cruise works in a 1997, but for 1999 to 2004 without electronic throttle and manual transmissions the kit is Toyota PT474-35981. There is a different one for automatics, PT474-35980.

In 2001 Toyota started rolling out ETCS, which in first gens was just a partial throttle by wire. These trucks (like 2005+) don't even need the actuator kit, they just need a couple of sensors added and the control buttons on the wheel. Few 2001 have ETCS (Limited only and even then it's rare), but I think by 2004 more of them had it.

The kit is the actuator that goes under the dash (it physically moves the pedal), brake and clutch switches, a wiring harness, steering wheel button pod and the controller that piggybacks on the ECU. Should be about $250 with our discount.

I think for pre-1999 trucks the kit would have a different set up. The throttle body on my '91 has a channel parallel to the pedal actuated cable, which I believe held a second cable for the cruise control actuator.

DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 10:14 AM
Didn't want to pull the box off and had no plans to box the frame. But gusseting might be necessary and if that happens the box comes off and the frame gets boxed. We do intend this as our everday and road trip truck and expect at least a decade more service from it. The thing runs great and doesn't rattle or even have worn off switch labels and stuff. :-/

This truck probably won't even get an ARB or anything, at least no time soon. Heck, who knows, this one might not be around in 10 years because of the rust and Imelda gets her wings in a 3.4L swap...

I do need a rear bumper. Mine is still bright and shiny but has a dimple in it. I was thinking about getting one from Brian up at Front Range so I also get a receiver and shackle points at the same time. But the prospect of $600 and doing more frame resto than I thought, I put that on the back burner.

coloradobound
03-29-2013, 10:15 AM
Are you sure it was 2001? My 2002 doesn't have it but my dads 2003 does. The throttle bodies are definitely different.

subzali
03-29-2013, 10:18 AM
... The throttle body on my '91 has a channel parallel to the pedal actuated cable, which I believe held a second cable for the cruise control actuator.

That's basically how the '97 3RZ-FE is set up. I was kinda curious about the column buttons and indicator lighting though too. I'll call Toyota and see what's up.

subzali
03-29-2013, 10:20 AM
...and Imelda gets her wings in a 3.4L swap......

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Sounds good! :thumb:

subzali
03-29-2013, 10:23 AM
That's basically how the '97 3RZ-FE is set up. I was kinda curious about the column buttons and indicator lighting though too. I'll call Toyota and see what's up.

Scott says no :(

DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 10:49 AM
Are you sure it was 2001? My 2002 doesn't have it but my dads 2003 does. The throttle bodies are definitely different.
The first year the ETCS appeared was 2001, but it is apparently very rare. Seems it's only Limited. It might also be a Taco vs. 4Runner thing, a lot of things show up in the 4Runner that are either rare or nonexistent in pickups. I think by 2004 all 3.4L engines had it, though. You are 100% correct, there is no question with or without, the throttle bodies, the accelerator cable, etc. are different.

DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 10:59 AM
Scott says no :(
There are aftermarket options that work the same way with a cable that pulls the throat plate and essentially ignores the pedal totally, so that might be a possibility. The only downsides I could see to them were (1) quality and (b) less tight integration. We'll see about the quality vis-a-vis the frame nonsense but integration seems to favor factory.

http://www.thecruisecontrolstore.com/ez-catalog/X380183/0003/toytac9504

AxleIke
03-29-2013, 11:53 AM
Sounds good on the frame. Give a holler if you decide you wanna gusset or box it in.

Cheers!

DaveInDenver
03-29-2013, 12:43 PM
Will do, thanks. I think for now I'm going to clean and coat it as best I can.

DaveInDenver
03-31-2013, 08:02 AM
Sounds good on the frame. Give a holler if you decide you wanna gusset or box it in.

Cheers!
The more I think about the more I convince myself to do something. :-) I'm gathering stuff to clean up the rust, paint it and rustproof it. So might as well do some frame strengthening now before I coat everything and put the camper on it.

Yes, you are right Nakman...

From what I see fully boxing in the frame might be more work than I think is necessary, though (would prefer not to remove the box for one). You have more experience with Tacos than me. I'd want to retain the stock BPV, shock, gas tank and spare mounts.

I've also seen people weld reinforcement to the outside of the frame over the axles. Does this really help prevent the frame from rippling under the box? If so this might be an option that's easier and achieves some of the benefits. I'll probably order up CBI's plates, I like the looks of them.

http://www.cbioffroadfab.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=98

I also see some people reinforce the front frame horns. I might one day put a bumper on, but even if not, is this section of frame known to be weak in a non-SAS situation? What about the section that transitions down from the box to parallel under the cab, forward of the spring hanger? Isn't that the spot where most frames eventually rust and bend?

AxleIke
03-31-2013, 10:39 AM
The more I think about the more I convince myself to do something. :-) I'm gathering stuff to clean up the rust, paint it and rustproof it. So might as well do some frame strengthening now before I coat everything and put the camper on it.

Yes, you are right Nakman...

From what I see fully boxing in the frame might be more work than I think is necessary, though (would prefer not to remove the box for one). You have more experience with Tacos than me. I'd want to retain the stock BPV, shock, gas tank and spare mounts.

That isn't a problem.

I've also seen people weld reinforcement to the outside of the frame over the axles. Does this really help prevent the frame from rippling under the box? If so this might be an option that's easier and achieves some of the benefits. I'll probably order up CBI's plates, I like the looks of them.

Boxing the frame helps with frame flex. It is designed to stiffen the frame to prevent twisting. plating the outside will help a little with this because it is harder to twist a thicker piece of material. It will certainly help with the "tearing" issue, if the plates go across the weakened area, and don't terminate at the area of concern.

Honestly, for your use, A plate across the outside should take care of the concern. The twisting is going to be an issue if you are seriously rock crawling, hauling heavy loads, and are pushing a ton of horse power. From what I know of your intended use, boxing everything in may be overkill. But, up to you.

http://www.cbioffroadfab.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=98

I also see some people reinforce the front frame horns. I might one day put a bumper on, but even if not, is this section of frame known to be weak in a non-SAS situation? What about the section that transitions down from the box to parallel under the cab, forward of the spring hanger? Isn't that the spot where most frames eventually rust and bend?

In my opinion, this is not worth doing on the front, but a plate across the transition from cab to box could be worthwhile. There is nothing up front to stress the frame on these trucks (non SAS), except an aftermarket bumper and winch, but that can be fixed if you decide to go that route down the road. Even there, it would take a lot of winching to mess up the frame. My dad's 04 has a 4WC Hawk in the bed, and an ARB with a winch, and we've done a couple of good pulls on it, plus it got whacked in a parking lot ( direct side hit to the ARB by a plow truck) pretty good, and absolutely no frame damage, bumper was easily repaired at a shop, and it was all good to go. But, easy enough to do if you want to.


Replied bold

AxleIke
03-31-2013, 10:41 AM
Oh, and one last thing is that, while removing the box is a little bit of a PITA, it certainly will make any welding easier for whomever does the work. And, the box really isn't that hard to get off, but does take a couple people.

DaveInDenver
03-31-2013, 07:26 PM
I guess I should clarify, I don't mind taking off the box to work on the truck. I just hesitate to avoid biting off more than I can deal with. We moved last summer up north (almost in Ft. Collins) and I'm still working on a hoist (which I need for the WilderNest anyway). It's gonna have to be outside, the new (old) house is not built nearly as solidly as the old (old) house, eye-bolts in the garage ceiling won't cut it here. :-)

Hmm. I definitely like the idea of boxing in the frame, that is the way frames are supposed to built. At this point there won't be a swing out bumper or long range fuel tank, but there will be a camper, fridge and hitch rack for the bikes. I don't travel light, either. Geez, I know, I know.

So are frame plates AND boxing overkill? Thinking stages, gussets now, inner plates down the road when I get ready for suspension. Think a couple of people could remove the box, weld on side plates and put the box back on in a day? I really need the truck ready for road trips by May, so whatever I plan should be straightforward and doable.

On the front, I know guys do some work on the frame horns when they put on an ARB and I'd do the same. Don't they usually close up the ends, too? I have no intention of crawling this truck, it's gotta stay manageable for road trips and she's OK with us keeping Imelda as long as the new truck remaining something she can drive... So the old truck won't have a topper on it and I expect that it'll get used for chores and day trips.

AxleIke
03-31-2013, 10:30 PM
Boxing will accomplish all you want in the rear. I would only add additional plate where the rust issues are. Maybe one more over the cab/box interface.

2 people can remove a bed, 4 makes it much easier. I'd recommend 4. The bed does not weigh that much, but I prefer the control 4 people gives, to prevent damaging the bed by smacking things, etc... Also, a set of sturdy saw horses is key. You don't want to just set the bed on the ground.

A day is certainly doable, provided there aren't major issues. If you are set on a 1 day turn around, plan to start early, and before the day, make sure you can get all the bed bolts loose, find and disconnect the body harness (tail lights, etc...), and pull the filler neck. That way if there is anything stuck or siezed, you can get it hit with penetrating oil, and go get spares if something breaks.

If anything is too siezed, or it get to be too much, the bed can certainly be left on.

Also, pull the shocks out, don't want hotness around those.

Anyway, that's how I go about getting a quick project ready, by trying to think through problem areas (rusted stuff) before hand, and get after it so I go into the project day prepared.

Anyway, thats all just my .02. Certainly take it for what it is worth.

DaveInDenver
04-01-2013, 07:45 AM
Your dos pesos are worth a lot to me, Isaac, you of all people have no need to qualify your advice. ;-)

My thinking right now is it's most important to do some sort of strengthening of the frame. I know boxing is best and probably inevitable. Plates are a band-aid and not a complete solution. Still, a lot of people have been successful in stiffening the frame, taking out most of the twist just doing gussets on the outside.

I am constrained to trying to finish the fab part in a day if I want to do it now. Which means allowing for FUBARs, painting, etc. it's at least a weekend project. I think it's easier to justify doing plates more-or-less correctly right now than hoping to pull off a proper boxing of the frame even in a weekend. If (when) I box in the frame I want to consider maybe moving shocks, maybe a custom cross member for a second fuel tank. Not to mention things like bracket alignments and customization that boxing surely will involve. Adding plates by themselves is a lot of work but there seems to be a pretty low risk of major gotchas tangents that derail summer plans...

I'd also like to get a few miles of seat time before deciding. I mean, for Goodness sake, I still have temp tags on the thing and just 106.7K on the clock (just 200 of which are mine). If I can keep the frame sound for a few years more I have plenty of time to go crazy on it. I think plates on the outside buy me that time.

rover67
04-01-2013, 09:30 AM
i'd be willing to help. we could use my place if ya'll wanted.

DaveInDenver
08-29-2013, 04:49 PM
More reason why one does not buy trucks that come from SLC, UT.

Anyone got a trick for getting a spray-in bed liner off?

:doh:

rover67
08-30-2013, 09:14 AM
maybe the dry ice trick?

bummer dude....

Jacket
08-30-2013, 09:39 AM
Is that a mount point for the bed, or just a random hole that formed?

Would an extra hot heat gun turn it to goo so that you could scrape it? Or an angle grinder with a wire wheel?

SteveH
08-30-2013, 12:11 PM
On Mud, it seems like most people use a wire wheel. Would paint stripper (with methylene chloride) attack it? I'd apply some, and then put a couple layers of Handi-wrap over the stripper to help the MC stay put and attack the bedliner for 30 minutes.

DaveInDenver
09-02-2013, 03:57 PM
It's a hole that formed along a seam in the bed where the floor and the wheel well meet. This is a support channel underneath where it looks like gunk collected and the rust just found a void or scratch or something and I suppose has been just munching for a while.

I was packing the truck for the weekend and noticed a bubble that seems sorta soft, so took a chance fearing the worst and cut into it. Pulled out what I could and painted the whole thing with rust converting prep and covered it with duct tape. I tapped the rest of the floor and didn't feel anything else, but will start peeling off the bed liner.

Or maybe just buy a new bed from Toyota...

I'll have to investigate more but my first thought is based on how easy it was to peel off what I did that dry ice and trying to take it off in chunks would be most successful. Seems heat and chemicals that soften will just result in a mess.

DaveInDenver
12-31-2014, 07:55 AM
Still looking at Tacomas since selling that 2001.

Apparently this is still an issue. What the heck, Toyota? They worry about Pandora radio and key fobs but their truck frames are rotting. :doh: Apparently Dana didn't clean stamping press lube from the frames before coating them, which rendered them essentially unprotected.

There is a limited service campaign, SC-E0D, under which 2nd gen Tacomas in several states are getting replacement frames.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1092814_2005-2008-toyota-tacoma-could-have-frame-rust-may-get-free-fix
States included in letter.

CT. DE. IL. IN. KY. MA. MD. ME. MI. MN. NH. NJ. NY. OH. PA. RI. VA. VT. WI. WV.

Letter reads

Toyota has received reports that certain 2005 through 2009 model year Tacoma vehicles operated in specific cold climate areas with high road salt use may exhibit more-than-normal corrosion to the vehicles frame. Toyota investigated these reports and determined that the frames in some vehicles may not have corrosion-resistant protection sufficient for use in these areas.

This combined with prolonged exposure to road salts and other environmental factors, may contribute to the development of more-than-normal rust in the frame of some vehicles. This condition is unrelated to and seperate from normal surface rust which is commonly found on metallic surfaces after some years of usage and/or exposure to the environment.

TIMZTOY
01-02-2015, 06:11 PM
i have bought 2 toyota that toyota would deem dead.. and i have even replaced an entier frame on a tacoma when working at the dealer..
i dont mind the rust as i can fix it.. its really easy. as the bad structural rust in isolated to the gap between the bed and cab. at the spring hanger location..

i say this next part like its no big deal. because to me its not and i can do it all in 1 day.

remove the bed, drop the gas tank, grind down the scale and flake.
cut out the bad sesction with a cut off wheel (typically the size of a football)
clean out the inside of the frame of all deprix por15 as much as you like and plate the frame with a 1/8" steel at liest 2" larger than your hole. treat the side and bottom as seprate repairs. it trully isnt a bad fix..

the spare tire carrier also gets it real bad.. i just cut it down and remove it compleatlly as we dont run stock size tires anyways.. and i plate that part of the frame as well for strength and add a tube to mount the shocks..
done in 1 day if you bust ass.

my newest taco has it the worst
it has it in the typical rear locations but also has it in the front by the firewall.. i have never seen it in the front before.. but it trully isnt nothing to be scared about or loose sleep on. because the fix is way stronger than the orgional.. i had holes (solid hole you can put your fist threw) about 10-14" long and 4-5" tall on the inside (both sides). and 2x8" on the bottom.. i even had to replace the spring hanger on one truck :)
but thats what converting to chevy 63" are for :)

SteveH
06-08-2016, 09:50 PM
I just returned from a trip to Scotland, and while there are only a handful of Toyotas in the country, this one struck me as interesting. Not sure how old it is, but check out the frame rust in the back in the last photo!

I would have taken more pictures, but I didn't want to explain to the fire/rescue crew what I was doing, so I snapped one and left.

DaveInDenver
07-30-2016, 10:16 AM
Reminder, keep after that frame rust on your Tacomas! Wire brush, good wash and some paint every summer. Happen to be putting on springs and shocks so this summer I'm getting after sections I normally can't, like inside the shock mount and behind the spring shackle. And don't forget this was just inspected under the frame corrosion recall and deemed normal by Toyota.

You have to watch the welds, it seems Dana/Toyota either can't get them clean prior to coating or the paint just isn't adhering well. But I've also had bubbles starting right in the middle of the sides of the frame, so it's just a matter of a pinhole or chip, too.

47843

47844

DaveInDenver
07-30-2016, 12:36 PM
After wire brush, some light sanding and paint.

47845

47846

2xfai
09-30-2016, 05:54 PM
Hello,

I am thinking about purchasing a 2005 Tacoma double cab TRD from one of my dad's buddies. The car was purchased new by my dad's friend in Washington state. After a year, it was driven to Baja (near Cabo), and kept there ever since.

My dad's buddy is fastidious about taking care of the car and as far as I know, it's in really good shape. It's got ~60,000 miles on it and has always been garaged.

I may buy it and drive it back to Colorado to use as my daily driver, including during winter.

My dad's friend plans to take the car to the Toyota dealership in Cabo later this month to have the spring leafs inspected for rust per the recall letter he received. I plan to ask the dealership to give the truck a full inspection at that time.

I've been reading about the frame rust issue and have some questions for you all.

--How does Toyota treat second owners when it comes to recalls? Exactly as if I were the original owner?

--If the truck doesn't have any rust issues now, but develops catastrophic frame rust sometime in the future, how will Toyota react? Does the recall have a specific time or mileage deadline? For a 2005 truck with 60,000 miles, how much more time
or mileage would Toyota allow before telling me I'm out of luck?

Anything else I should be concerned about?

Thanks for your help.

White Stripe
10-02-2016, 01:13 AM
Toyota is no longer assisting owners with rusted frames in any way as far as I know. The extended warranty has expired.

SteveH
10-02-2016, 07:29 AM
--If the truck doesn't have any rust issues now, but develops catastrophic frame rust sometime in the future, how will Toyota react?

With proper inspection and rustproofing, you can prevent future frame rust issues, but if it has been near a coastal area, you will want to inspect thoroughly before buying (as you are doing) and then keep a close eye on it, and apply paint/grease as required to stop future rust.

DaveInDenver
10-02-2016, 08:51 PM
Toyota is no longer assisting owners with rusted frames in any way as far as I know. The extended warranty has expired.
The inspect by date is passed for 2005 through 2008, March 31, 2016 I believe, and was elapsed some time ago for 1995 through 2004.

If a 1995 through 2008 has been inspected per Toyota's limited service campaign requirements then it is eligible for a 15 year extended perforation warranty. Meaning if it does rust through within 15 years of being put in service (basically 15 years after it's model year for practical purposes) it may get a new frame. The 1995 to 2000 trucks just got a buy-back at some multiplier of value and are now out of warranty but the 2001 to 2008 trucks still get new frames if they need them.

There are second generations getting new frames currently. There is no word on when or if 2009+ trucks might start seeing this issue. Toyota assured buyers that the 2005-2008 had solved the problem but that wasn't the case. I got mine inspected about a year ago now and it passed with no significant perforation found but I've been cleaning, repainting and spraying corrosion preventive whenever I work underneath it. I posted an example of this earlier in the thread. It did start to develop some small bubble cancer rust on the outside of the frame rails after last winter that got brushed to metal, primed, painted and coated but otherwise it's just been superficial surface rust on the welds that hasn't been deep.

In the case of 2xfai's truck you would have to plug the VIN into Toyota's database to see if it was ever inspected. If so then it would be potentially covered under the rust-through warranty. If it has not been inspected in Toyota records then it will not be. The test is to literally hit several identified locations with a hammer to check for holes. One easy to see and check is the inner frame rail behind the catalytic converters. Others you want to check are the inside and outside over the rear axle back to the rear bumper and the boxed sections from the engine mounts on the inside back to under the cab. Poke at them and look closely for bubbles, the perforations are difficult to see visually but the scale will come off relatively easily if it's there. The paint will be probably be adhered the rust, so it's not easy to just see, you have to dig at it. In some cases back east whole sections of frame will fall away with the black paint still covering it but there's literally nothing but iron oxide powder behind it.

BTW, from a warranty standpoint the current owner is treated the same as the original buyer. If the truck was inspected and fails down the road, you should get a new frame. If it was not, you're out of luck. The cost for a frame replacement if done at a dealer is something like $12,000. If that is the case finding a used frame or welding scab plates over sections of rust-through are probably more cost effective.

Caribou Sandstorm
10-03-2016, 10:57 AM
Hello,

I am thinking about purchasing a 2005 Tacoma double cab TRD from one of my dad's buddies. The car was purchased new by my dad's friend in Washington state. After a year, it was driven to Baja (near Cabo), and kept there ever since.

My dad's buddy is fastidious about taking care of the car and as far as I know, it's in really good shape. It's got ~60,000 miles on it and has always been garaged.

I may buy it and drive it back to Colorado to use as my daily driver, including during winter.

My dad's friend plans to take the car to the Toyota dealership in Cabo later this month to have the spring leafs inspected for rust per the recall letter he received. I plan to ask the dealership to give the truck a full inspection at that time.

I've been reading about the frame rust issue and have some questions for you all.

--How does Toyota treat second owners when it comes to recalls? Exactly as if I were the original owner?

--If the truck doesn't have any rust issues now, but develops catastrophic frame rust sometime in the future, how will Toyota react? Does the recall have a specific time or mileage deadline? For a 2005 truck with 60,000 miles, how much more time
or mileage would Toyota allow before telling me I'm out of luck?

Anything else I should be concerned about?

Thanks for your help.

You driving with family back up or is this gonna be a bro trip? :)

2xfai
10-03-2016, 05:12 PM
Thanks for the information. Very helpful.

DaveInDenver - I went to this website to check if the truck has been inspected in order to qualify for the 15 year extended perforation warranty. http://www.toyota.com/owners/parts-service/history.

I created an account, plugged in the VIN and looked at the service records. The website said there were no service records at all for the truck. This doesn't seem correct, as my dad's friend has had all previous recalls fixed by a Toyota dealership in Baja.

My dad's friend told me that last time the truck was at a dealership was approximately two years ago when the shocks and struts were replaced. The work was done at the dealership in La Paz. I don't have the exact date of the work, but if we assume it was sometime in 2014, at that time were dealerships doing inspections to qualify trucks for the extended perforation warranty?

Prior to buying, I think I ought to confirm whether this truck has received the extended warranty. I was planning on emailing Toyota directly and asking them. Unless you have any other recommendations.

Thanks for your help.

DaveInDenver
10-03-2016, 06:33 PM
It may be that the U.S. and Mexican dealers don't use the same reporting or database. That I don't know. The Toyota system is similar to Carfax in that it will only report things that are put in correctly and it relies upon a voluntary entry by someone and dealers are not consistent either.

I'd call Toyota customer service on the phone and talk to someone directly, possibility opening a case with them to get it figured out.

This is what the line item in my truck's history shows for the frame inspection under LSC (limited Service Campaign) E0D.

9/17/15
RECALL ESD. FRAME INSPECTED-NO SIGNIFICANT PERFORATION FOUND.
RECALL ESD. FRAME INSPECTED-NO SIGNIFICANT PERFORATION FOUND. ~|~CUST REQ THE ESD CAMPAIGN ~|~.OPEN CAMPAIGN ~|~46727 C/ ESD CAMPAIGN C/ ESD CAMPAIGN OPEN R/ PERFORM ESD CAMPAIGN 3607G1 60 R/ PERFORM ESD CAMPAIGN PERFORMED RECALL AS PER MANUFACTURER INSTRUCTIONS
WARRANTY PAY

2xfai
10-04-2016, 02:44 PM
Thanks, Dave.

2xfai
10-18-2016, 01:02 PM
I found out more information.

I emailed Toyota directly to confirm if the truck was inspected per LSC E0D. You were right, Toyota U.S.A. doesn't have access to Toyota Mexico's records. Toyota U.S.A. says recall and LSC work can only be done by dealerships in the U.S.

Last week, I spoke with a lawyer who represents a bunch of Tacoma owners who have frame rust problems. I asked him about the extended warranty being given under LSC E0D; he hadn’t heard of any extended warranties for this problem.

Yesterday, I called Toyota directly. I was told that the extended warranty doesn't exist for 2005 Tacomas. They said that under LSC E0D, during the inspection, if rust is found on the frame, then Toyota would take care of it. If a truck didn't have any frame rust, then Toyota deems the truck to be okay, and any future rust is the responsibility of the owner. In other words, no extended warranty. Maybe Toyota gave extended warranties to owners of other years, but not the 2005 models. The guy I spoke with at Toyota said it probably won't become a future recall.

My plan is to have the truck inspected closely in Mexico. Besides just telling the mechanic to look for rust all around the frame, is there anywhere else he should look that's not obvious?

If I end up buying the truck, do you recommend getting the frame re-coated for corrosion when I get it back to the U.S.? Any idea of the cost to do this? Who around Denver would do this work? Any thoughts on whether it's worth the expense? I guess I’d like to know the cost of having the whole frame re-coated, just so I know what I’m getting myself into.

I’m struggling with what to do. On one hand, I believe the truck is in good shape, but I’ll know for sure after a mechanic inspects it. My dad’s friend has taken good care of it, it only has 60k miles and he’s going to sell it to me for a reasonable price, slightly below market. On the other, I will want to drive the truck for at least 10 years, and it will definitely be driven year round, especially in the mountains in the winter. It will see a good amount of mag chloride, I'm guessing. If the frame rusts out within five years, I will be pretty upset. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Thanks for your help.

DaveInDenver
10-18-2016, 01:48 PM
I know the 2000-2004 truck got 15 year warranties and I thought the 2005-2008 also got them, but if Toyota said no then I don't know. I wouldn't use a 15-year warranty as a reason to trust a frame against rust in any case and not do any preventative or repairs.

The bottom line is that anything can and everything probably will eventually rust. Do the Tacomas (and Sequoia, Tundra) rust faster than 4Runner and Cruiser? I think so but I don't have exhaustive data to say one way or the other. My experience with a 1991 Pickup, 2001 and 2008 Tacoma is that the frames do in fact rust quite a bit worse on the Tacoma. At the same time 79-95 trucks got rusty eventually, too. So it's not like they were immune to it, they just have thicker steel and I believe a heavier coat of paint so it take longer is all. If you Google you'll find reports of newer Hilux and 4Runners with significant rust, too, so it's probably that manufacturers have to cut cost and weight to meet profits and regulations so maybe the Tacoma just gets more attention. I dunno.

My recommendation is if you like the Tacoma and it's not currently rusty, go for it. But you can't assume a 20+ year life just driving them anymore. You have to keep after the rust, clean, scrape, prime, paint and coat with something in the winter. I use Fluid Film twice a year and would suggest you NOT use an undercoat. The only time an undercoat makes sense is brand new where there is zero rust. If you put a rubberized coating over existing rust it will just chew up steel under there unabated until it fails. You want to see and fix rust as it starts. I generally spend the summer cleaning up the winter corrosion.

SteveH
10-18-2016, 05:03 PM
You have to keep after the rust, clean, scrape, prime, paint and coat with something in the winter. I use Fluid Film twice a year and would suggest you NOT use an undercoat. The only time an undercoat makes sense is brand new where there is zero rust. If you put a rubberized coating over existing rust it will just chew up steel under there unabated until it fails. You want to see and fix rust as it starts. I generally spend the summer cleaning up the winter corrosion.

x2 on this - and if you want a more durable coating than Fluid Film (which I like), put on a rubber glove and dive into a 1 lb. tub of axle grease, and lay in on the frame or axle parts. I keep a tub of axle grease around (labeled 'dirty' on the lid, so I don't use it for wheel bearings) and use that for nasty frame bits.

White Stripe
10-19-2016, 01:13 AM
You could strip the truck down to the bare frame and have the frame galvanized. Their is a company near Denver that does hot dip galvanize.

rover67
10-19-2016, 09:38 AM
You could strip the truck down to the bare frame and have the frame galvanized. Their is a company near Denver that does hot dip galvanize.

what place does hot dip galvanize?

DaveInDenver
11-13-2016, 05:32 AM
Toyota to settle U.S. truck rust lawsuit for up to $3.4 billion (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-settlement-idUSKBN1370PE)

Toyota to pay $3.4 billion to settle premature rusting lawsuits (http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2016/11/12/Toyota-to-pay-34-billion-to-settle-premature-rusting-lawsuits/1311478980400/)
LOS ANGELES, Nov. 12 (UPI) -- Japanese automaker Toyota agreed to a $3.4 billion settlement after metal body frames on its pickups and SUVs were found to lack sufficient rust protection, causing them to prematurely corrode.

According to court filings, the settlement, which won preliminary approval from a federal judge in Los Angeles earlier this week, covers about 1.5 million vehicles in the United States. Toyota owners in two states filed suit over problems with their vehicles, which include Toyota Tacoma trucks from model years 2005 to 2010, Tundras from 2007 to 2008 and Sequoias from 2005 to 2008.

Under the terms of the deal, Toyota must notify owners of the affected vehicles and perform annual inspections for up to 12 years from the first year the individual owned the truck. If premature corrosion is found, Toyota will replace the frames at no cost to the vehicle's owner.

The Detroit News reported the ultimate size of the settlement could change depending on the number of vehicles the company actually has to repair.

The company released a statement confirming the settlement, saying, "we want our customers to have a great ownership experience, so we are pleased to resolve this litigation in a way that benefits them and demonstrates that we stand behind the quality and reliability of our vehicles."

DaveInDenver
11-13-2016, 05:37 AM
Under the terms of the deal, Toyota must notify owners of the affected vehicles and perform annual inspections for up to 12 years from the first year the individual owned the truck. If premature corrosion is found, Toyota will replace the frames at no cost to the vehicle's owner.

Wonder if this related to the suit in Arkansas over this.

http://legalnewsline.com/stories/510627823-class-action-says-rusty-toyota-tacomas-are-essentially-worthless

Dunno how this affect you 2xfai, but this may put your mind at ease?

If I read this correctly I may be covered until 2027 since I bought my truck in 2015 from a Toyota dealer, had the original inspection, there's a paper trail with Toyota corporate even. It's probably the same in-service warranty like the 95-04, where the truck was covered for 12 years after the truck was first purchased, so my frame warranty would be until 2020 or 2021.

Either way I'm not going to stop doing my maintenance.

Although I don't know if this covers all Tacomas, members of the class in the lawsuit, if everyone is by default in that class (I don't remember being asked to participate or not).