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Firetacoma
04-01-2013, 09:27 AM
Howdy!

I'm new to this forum, been around 4-wheeling and Toyotas in Colorado for about 15 years. I was involved with TTORA in Colorado early on... kind of fell away from that group as things evolved.

I had a '76 FJ40 in high school, sold it in college, got a '99 Tacoma, sold that 2 years ago for an '07 double cab Tacoma, but always missed the 40. This past weekend I finally found the right deal on another '40 and brought home a '77.

So, now the fun starts all over. My '76 was all original in great shape. This '77, not so much. The first priority is smog compliance. I'm looking for a picture of what I should have so I can figure out what's missing, but for sure the smog pump isn't there. Any help there or leads on equipment would be appreciated.

The next order of business is an oil leak from the front... perhaps timing cover? Any helpful hints there?

Third strange item is that it has fiberglass fenders and when they were installed it seems like the whole front clip is loose. The side panels don't attach to the tub or something?

There are a whole bunch of other little strange items to take care of (both mirrors are broken and point at the ground, windshield wipers don't work, missing the seat belt/brake warning light, etc. etc. etc.) but these things are the biggest I think.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

-Andrew

bgoodheart
04-01-2013, 09:40 AM
Welcome!

DaveInDenver
04-01-2013, 09:43 AM
Welcome!

I'd be careful trying to fix too many little issues, that's how you create a big one. I'm a firm believer in the Cruiser Gods and that they don't like perfect trucks. Find some little thing that you can live with and gives your truck character and leave it broken as an offering.

subzali
04-01-2013, 09:52 AM
Ha ha Dave, that's funny.

Welcome Firetacoma! I have a '77 as well, as do Crash, kurtnkeggar and nattybumppo on the forum here. We'll try to point you in the right direction.

For starters, can you post up your build date? I'd also be curious to see your frame number and engine number as well.

As always, pictures are helpful for any question you may have.

I have an okay writeup on '77 smog equipment here: I originally wrote it intending to do a desmog but have since decided against that approach.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/440852-77-fj40-federal-2f-desmog.html

You need to know if you're going after Federal emissions or California emissions. What are the colors of the emissions sticker on the under side of the hood? White letters on black or black letters on white?

That thread link has some diagrams scanned from the Haynes manual, which is actually pretty decent in a lot of respects to the '77 model year. So you should consider picking at least that manual up to take a look at. The Factory Service Manuals (FSM) are better for digging deeper into your truck.

Bring your rig out sometime! Our next meeting is this Wednesday at the Jeffco Fairgrounds! :thumb:

:risingsun

Firetacoma
04-01-2013, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the welcome!

The imperfect thing is going to be rust... and the bad paint job. It's red over yellow. But for the price I paid (especially considering what they seem to be going for these days!), I think I got a good deal.

That said... it seems like I maybe should have looked into this emissions stuff a bit more seriously before i spent my dough. After reading that ih8mud thread and getting more than a little glossed over, I fear I may be in way over my head... if I can even figure out what I need, can I find the parts??!

I'll post up the build date, pictures, and other information this evening. A Haynes Manual and hopefully a FSM are on my short list. I'm not very mechanical but am anxious to learn!

I'd love to attend a meeting... unfortunately, 1st Wednesday of the month is also a Fire Department training night. Maybe sometime down the road!

subzali
04-01-2013, 11:15 AM
you could probably borrow what you need to get by the emissions guys, and then purchase the rest as you find it.

coloradobound
04-01-2013, 11:18 AM
Hey Andrew. Definitely good group over here. Welcome.

Firetacoma
04-01-2013, 06:33 PM
As promised, pictures!

July of 77 build. Not sure where the engine or frame numbers would be...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/DF68713D-0CE6-4E53-A5C5-6D51C89C0041-14991-00000F21965DDFB2.jpg

Is this federal or cal spec?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/3CF1EACA-EAD5-4A45-98AB-DDCB3F0FBA12-14991-00000F2198D4548C.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/E9ECA492-4595-46A5-939B-B187DD8AEA59-14991-00000F219A937948.jpg

What I have and what I don't... Seem to be missing more than I have. Ugh.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/006B9C2B-B9F3-4F56-B9B5-27A52DDFDC72-14991-00000F219C95CE62.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/1BEAD9DD-4819-4861-BDCB-FBC57849728F-14991-00000F219E92E53B.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/D87F772F-6408-4AEA-9CDC-634E1D1CD22C-14991-00000F21A052B9A8.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/56525EA6-3EE9-4387-A740-A137650F7055-14991-00000F21A4004E0D.jpg


This wiring also seems to be a mess... Lots of loose wires... Not sure why it runs!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/70B45233-9543-4891-B74A-CB4B5008B864-14991-00000F21A949B23E.jpg

Here is the complete ugly picture!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/B2E84F41-157F-4B2E-94C2-BAC235E58AB9-14991-00000F21AB2A7B27.jpg

My son may appear to be a prisoner but he loves the thing!

Thanks for any and all help you can offer, right now I feel in very far over my head. Considering seeing if I can just register it at "my" cabin down south.

farnhamstj
04-01-2013, 07:07 PM
Welcome

subzali
04-01-2013, 07:36 PM
Looks like federal spec to me, I'll verify. Looks like you have a '78 carb on yours like I do, sorry about that. 77 carbs are hard to find apparently, but no necessary to pass smog. You should cap that tube on the drivers side though. I'll look and see if I have any extra caps, but you can find them at the auto parts store. What kind of fuel pump is on it? The frame number will match your VIN and is stamped on the front frame rail on the passenger side. The engine number is stamped behind the distributor on a flat on the engine block. Yours is later 77 like Kurt's and Sascha's

Cool

Firetacoma
04-01-2013, 07:51 PM
I'll grab frame and engine numbers sometime when I feel like getting grubby.

Not sure if the fuel pump is oe, but it's mechanical and labled kyosan or something similar.

I'll try to get a plug on that open tube on the carb... I actually thought it had a plug on it until you mentioned it.

How can you tell the year of the carb? Is it possible they were using these carbs in 77 if we both have them or is it a common replacement?

After reading more about registering in different counties, I think I'm going to try to pass the visual with what I have, an air rail and smog pump (assuming I can find both) and then see if I can tune it to pass. Trying to find all the little bits and pieces seems daunting and probably not necessary... Am I on the right track?

nuclearlemon
04-01-2013, 08:15 PM
federal spec

front main seal leak is common. you'll need a front main seal and the timing cover gasket, along with a tube of fipg. get oe toyota...the felpro seals are crap. do at least, the lower radiator hose while you're there.

kyosan is oe.

the carb will have a number/letter sequence stamped on it...that relates to build date.

if you have an airrail, i think pighead has one, but we don't know what vintage. if we spot it see what we can find out.

subzali
04-01-2013, 09:06 PM
I asked about the fuel pump because there isn't a return line hooked up from the carb which there should be.

A smog pump, ABV and air rail should just about do the trick for passing smog if it's running right, and good news is they're easy to find. The harder parts to find will be the BVSV, VTV, 2 VSVs and vacuum surge tank, as that stuff is specific to 77. That is, assuming you would want to return it back to the oem configuration and don't want to pay SOR prices. Do you still have electrical plugs on the driver side apron for the VSVs? Do you still have the charcoal canister?

It's probably just a coincidence that yours and mine both have 78 carbs, SOR has excellent pictures for reference.

subzali
04-01-2013, 09:09 PM
Oops never mind you do have a return line, I just couldn't see it at first.

nattybumppo
04-01-2013, 09:09 PM
I'll grab frame and engine numbers sometime when I feel like getting grubby.

Not sure if the fuel pump is oe, but it's mechanical and labled kyosan or something similar.

I'll try to get a plug on that open tube on the carb... I actually thought it had a plug on it until you mentioned it.

How can you tell the year of the carb? Is it possible they were using these carbs in 77 if we both have them or is it a common replacement?

After reading more about registering in different counties, I think I'm going to try to pass the visual with what I have, an air rail and smog pump (assuming I can find both) and then see if I can tune it to pass. Trying to find all the little bits and pieces seems daunting and probably not necessary... Am I on the right track?

Yes! Rock Auto actually has decent air pumps for the best price I have found. Or I may have a non-working one that at least looks the part. You are missing a bunch of vaccuum tubing, but that may be overlooked. You will definitely need an air rail hooked up to an apparently functioning air pump. A probably a nicely leaned-out carb tune.

Firetacoma
04-01-2013, 09:29 PM
I asked about the fuel pump because there isn't a return line hooked up from the carb which there should be.

A smog pump, ABV and air rail should just about do the trick for passing smog if it's running right, and good news is they're easy to find. The harder parts to find will be the BVSV, VTV, 2 VSVs and vacuum surge tank, as that stuff is specific to 77. That is, assuming you would want to return it back to the oem configuration and don't want to pay SOR prices. Do you still have electrical plugs on the passenger side apron for the VSVs? Do you still have the charcoal canister?

It's probably just a coincidence that yours and mine both have 78 carbs, SOR has excellent pictures for reference.

I have electrical connections on the driver's side apron... I thought that was where all this stuff lived? If not, I'm not sure what these connections are for.

No charcoal canister... I don't think, where does it live?

Firetacoma
04-01-2013, 09:32 PM
Yes! Rock Auto actually has decent air pumps for the best price I have found. Or I may have a non-working one that at least looks the part. You are missing a bunch of vaccuum tubing, but that may be overlooked. You will definitely need an air rail hooked up to an apparently functioning air pump. A probably a nicely leaned-out carb tune.

Rock auto... I'll search for that!

I hear the shop at broadway and Arapahoe in boulder knows how to tune these things to pass if I can pass the visual. That's my goal as of now... I may try to return to oe equipment down the road, but getting plates is the priority!

subzali
04-01-2013, 10:04 PM
The driver side apron is where this stuff lives, that's why I asked about the plugs. The charcoal canister lives near the distributor

Firetacoma
04-02-2013, 07:46 AM
I didn't scour the passenger side as well. I'll look tonight.

Anybody have a picture of a complete '77 engine bay?

subzali
04-02-2013, 08:13 AM
I didn't scour the passenger side as well. I'll look tonight.

Anybody have a picture of a complete '77 engine bay?

Oops I meant driver. Sorry shouldn't type when tired.

Firetacoma
04-02-2013, 08:36 AM
haha, yeah, you said passenger twice so I thought you must mean it!

Yeah, the harness seems to be there for stuff on the driver side.

Looking at SOR.com, and then looking at my emissions sticker, it seems that mine is possibly a high altitude model?

subzali
04-02-2013, 09:01 AM
I think you may be right - I took a bad picture of mine last night and I think it says "...at altitudes at or below 4000 feet." I'll have to look again tonight.

In 1977 I don't know if there was an extra high-altitude compensation (HAC) valve, maybe Sascha knows...

kurtnkegger
04-02-2013, 09:19 AM
My '77 engine bay is complete, but mine is a California model. There's differences Matt and I are still finding. I'll get some pics, but don't know how valuable that will be to you...

Firetacoma
04-02-2013, 09:27 AM
Very interesting!

Where does that HAC valve go? It seems disembodied on the SOR site...

Does anyone have the 77 emissions book? Specter wants a small fortune for this particular year. Or is it anywhere online electronically?

Jenny Cruiser
04-02-2013, 10:50 AM
Nice. Good to see another 77 on here. I think I saw that a bit ago on CL. I've got a box of smog parts that came off mine I'm hoping I'll never have to dig into. :o

subzali
04-02-2013, 10:55 AM
you can buy the books directly from Toyota, don't know if it's cheaper. I have the 77 emissions FSM.

Firetacoma
04-02-2013, 12:07 PM
If you want to sell any of those parts, let me know!

I'll have to ask my buddy who works at Boulder Toyota if the FSM book is still available.

DaveInDenver
04-02-2013, 12:16 PM
Factory new book not available currently.

http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=helm&Mfg=TMS&Make=TOY&Model=LAND&Year=1977&Category=&Keyword=&Module=&selected%5Fmedia=

Several options available used.

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/Search.aspx?c=52442

subzali
04-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Here's a comparison of the two emissions stickers, the one for high-altitude and the one for general Federal (thanks to Jenny Cruiser for letting me take the pic of his '77)...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/firemantaco/E9ECA492-4595-46A5-939B-B187DD8AEA59-14991-00000F219A937948.jpg

Jacket
04-04-2013, 11:17 AM
Belated welcome.

I've got a 5/76 that should be very similar to your 77 in terms of emissions components. Mine is virtually in tact minus the air pump, but I was able to pass emissions many years ago without it (I've got collectors plates so I only had to pass emissions once). All of the other parts are there as far as I can tell, although I haven't done a complete audit and am not an expert with all the components. But I'd be happy to pop my hood and compare notes. I do have the engine and body FSMs which cover some of the emissions components, but I don't have the emissions specific manual. I'm out Arapahoe in eastern Boulder, so we're fairly close.

akingf5371
04-04-2013, 05:54 PM
Is there an emission manual for that year? That is going to be the easiest way to understand what you are missing and how it works. Just break it down into sub-components and you'll eventually get there.

subzali
04-04-2013, 08:13 PM
The Haynes manual really covers 77 pretty well

Jacket
04-04-2013, 09:31 PM
I do have the engine and body FSMs which cover some of the emissions components, but I don't have the emissions specific manual.

I guess I need to check my library more often. Found this in the stack.

I also have the Haynes manual. You're welcome to borrow either one if you like.

subzali
04-04-2013, 09:44 PM
I think Sascha's fj40 is the closest one to firetacoma's that we have in the club. 77 definitely has some differences with 76, though big things like the air pump and EGR are the same

Firetacoma
04-06-2013, 08:32 AM
Awesome Matt!

I'm in Gunbarrel so probably really close.

I picked up a Haynes manual and have a used smog pump coming to me. Still trying to find the abv and air rail.

I got my temp plates now so I am in the 60 day window! Dun dun dun.

baja1d
04-06-2013, 09:57 AM
Sending you a PM regarding my disassembled '76 that's getting a chevy transplant.

baja1d
04-06-2013, 10:02 AM
Welcome BTW, as you can see...great group of folks!

Firetacoma
04-08-2013, 06:37 PM
Stupid question maybe... Why couldn't I just get the emissions junk for a 78? Everything for the computer on.

Or a 76 for that matter, since it's a much simpler design. Is there a reason I'm overlooking that this wouldn't work?

MDH33
04-09-2013, 08:42 AM
Welcome. :)


Have you tried just taking it in for an emissions test as is? It all depends on luck, but often, the person who opens the hood won't even know what they are looking at on an older vehicle, and if it blows clean, you'll pass. Worth a try before you start spending tome/money on all those parts.

baja1d
04-09-2013, 10:41 AM
Welcome. :)


Have you tried just taking it in for an emissions test as is? It all depends on luck, but often, the person who opens the hood won't even know what they are looking at on an older vehicle, and if it blows clean, you'll pass. Worth a try before you start spending tome/money on all those parts.

^^^^ I'd second this. Furthermore, I'd also throw out using a friend's address that lives in Park or Clear Creek County where there is no smog regulations & only 2.8% tax

Firetacoma
04-09-2013, 11:38 AM
I have thought about just letting it rip and seeing what happens. That would at least give me a year to get my ducks in a row to get some stuff installed...

In general how thorough is the visual inspection?

My father in law has a cabin in teller county. That's my plan c.

I'd like to get it back to near stock just so I don't have to worry every year if this will be the year I draw the short stick and have to scramble for parts. But not having to do it in panic mode will be much cheaper!

subzali
04-09-2013, 12:41 PM
From reports of others, the main thing that is looked for in the visual inspection is the air pump and air rail.

But some have gotten through smog without even that.

Regarding using '76 or '78 smog components, let me share with you what I have and then I'll pontificate ;)

I have a '77 Federal emissions package, but I'm running a '78 Federal carb with a '79 distributor. My FJ40 *seems* to run fine, *seems* to have good power, *seems* to burn clean, etc. It passed the tailpipe and visual in 2005 and I got collectors plates so I haven't had to do anything more. In 2005, there were vacuum ports that were plugged (unused on my '78 carb and '79 dizzy) and went unnoticed during the inspection.

A note on distributors (copied from MUD):
•1975 & early 1976: small distributor, completely redesigned, very good quality points distributor. Vacuum retard.

•Late 1976 & 1977: Same, but w/ vac advance

•1978: redesigned w/ Med. size screwdown, waterproof cap, electronic ignition. Vacuum advance & retard.

•1979 - 1980: dual diaphragm advance. One big advance stage for normal operation, small second stage for extra advance at hi-altitude

A note on carburetors:
Different year carbs have different ports for vacuum control (somewhat dependent on distributor needs, whether vacuum retard or vacuum advance), the actual port drilling locations may change depending on what vacuum signal is needed. Also, items like the power valve have different controls (external or internal vacuum source) depending on year. Starting in 1978 a HIC vacuum port was added as well as a bowl vent. On mine those are plugged.




Having said all of that, obviously you can get by with mix-matching parts (like mine has-BTW I inherited it like this). But I can only believe that unless an informed decision is made about which parts to use then some goofy things could happen.

There is also a consideration with the computers and wiring harness connections. The VSVs and computers do look a little different from '76-'78, so you would have to figure out how to accommodate those differences.

And then finally there is the little item where your hood and build date says that you have a 1977 emissions system, so if you change to another year then that could confuse someone down the road. '76 would technically be illegal, but '78 would possibly just confuse someone. And then to get a total '78 system you have to figure out how to do the HIC vent and bowl vent connections. It just kinda opens a can of worms.

You should probably try going to a mom and pop emissions place first (if they still exist), and see if you can piece the system together over the next year (your emissions will be annual with a '77).

Firetacoma
04-09-2013, 06:21 PM
Good advice and info.

I tried to go get a test today (to at least get a baseline and see what happened) but they apparently had a snow day... As did I!

I think I'm going to stick with my semi-original plan of getting the air rail and smog pump in and then seeing what happens.

I also bought junk today to replace the thermostat (runs cold), fix my front oil leak, and replace all fluids and filters. Basically base lining the rig... The PO used it only for elk hunting so it had sat quite a bit which can always be a bit scary.

baja1d
04-09-2013, 06:53 PM
I think I'm going to stick with my semi-original plan of getting the air rail and smog pump in and then seeing what happens.


^^^^ I know that I have this stuff for both a '76 & '86 2F


.

Firetacoma
04-09-2013, 09:52 PM
Awesome. According to specter, the 76 pump and rail stuff will fit a 77.

Firetacoma
05-10-2013, 10:19 PM
So, I tried the lazy method and went without installing the air pump or rail. I thought I was in the clear when the guy hooked it up and began the test. I got the results back:fail.

All of the emissions were in spec, only failed due to missing components. I think this is crap, if a vehicle can pass the standards without it, why does it need it?!

Anyways, I went right home and popped I the air rail I picked up from Travis. I have 3 pumps to pick from and am only missing 1 belt to have the air injection system in place.

Just thought I'd share my experience, some of them do know what to look for!

Firetacoma
05-14-2013, 03:10 PM
Well, I threw on the air rail and pump, finally got the right sized belt and took it back for a re-test yesterday.

They remembered the truck and I could see them looking it over extra well to make sure I had put the junk back on. They seemed to be happy. The lady started doing the test with the magic RPM detector (seriously, how does the one work where they don't attach to the spark plug wire?) and wasn't getting a good signal.

She switched over to the lead on the #1 wire and was having trouble getting the idle low enough for the test. Finally she just gave up. No asking me if there was a trick or anything, just said it was failing because it idled too high. I not-so-calmly explained that it was a 35 year old vehicle. It has a mechanical connection to the gas pedal and if you gently pull back on said pedal with your toe, the idle drops to a nice low 600ish.

She said she'd see what they could do.

Another dude comes over, I explain it to him. He says, "show me." Fair enough. We fire it up, I toe up on the pedal and the RPMS drop and stay low. He says he'd give it one more shot, if it didn't work they'd have to fail it. ok!

5 minutes later I was rolling out with a pass stamp! WOOHOO!

Thanks to everyone on here for your suggestions and parts. I'm sure it won't be the last time but at least now I can get plates and drive it.